If our President has more than one wife: The question of human rights

[Susuviri]

Augustine Moshi: mkuu, nadhani hapa kuna different approaches to the subject matters and it makes it difficult to have a meaningful discussion ndo maana nimejitoa kidogo:
- Serious philosophical and moral debate: you belong to this group
- Religious/ Cutural aspect
- With a light touch

Everybody has a right to express his or her opinion but at times because of the different attitudes we talk but do not communicate.

 

[DN]

The very contradictory law in Tanzania allows for a muslim man to have more than one wife. Human Rights declarions enforce on the right to family life but this does not bar having more than one wife or having more than one family. Although not in favour of polygamy or polyandruy I personally would not say that there are any human rights breach concerns on this with relevance to Tanzanian laws and morals and ethics as they stand today and infact as per the Tanzanian society this may well be praised at times in that he is providing for more than one woman financilly or as they say anawasitiri.

What I think we should question about his ethics and morals and following the law is on him having kids out of wedlocking and neglecting some to the point of having been taken to court some years ago for child maintenance.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hey DN.....whats up?

 

[Interested Observer]

The law in Tanzania allows for a muslim man to have more than one wife and so as per Tanzania Laws and ethical and social standards and women and human rights what he is doing is acceptable and maybe even praised by some in that anawastiri wanawake wengi.

What I think we should question about his ethics and following the law is on him having kids out of wedlocking and neglecting some to the point of having been taken to court some years ago for child maintenance.

No Law in Tanzania states that. There is Law on marriage which allows polygamy in Tanzania, but not a Law in Tanzania allowing only Muslims men to have more than one wife. Don't mislead.

 

[DN]

actually the marriage laws in tanzania do traet muslim, traditional, common law, registry and christian marriages differently and you can see that eg in the way estates are divided where a muslim man has more than one wife and where a catholic has more than one wife which ofcourse is not allowed kwenye dini yake

 

[Augustine Moshi]

I like a good argument when I see one, but those are rare things here. The latest reasonably good argument in favor of polygamy was given by DN, and it went something like this: "Mtu akioa wanawake wengi anastahili kusifiwa kwani anawasetiri".

But if giving assistance to women were the main reason for marrying many of them then we could have done better by giving them the assistance while at the same time leaving them alone! That unconditional assistance wouldn't have interfered with the dignity of the fair sex.

There is a sure sign that society frowns on polygamy. It is the fact that in all educated sections of the population, polygamous men tend to hide their marital status. They are ashamed of it. Like the President, they are greedy enough to marry many women but lack the courage to be themselves.

In these days of HIV AIDS, it is madness to allow polygamy. Does it not sound crazy for politicians to have themselves tested for HIV AIDS and walk around preaching that "we must have one faithful partner" and then go ahead and have two wives? Who are they kidding!

Finally, I have a question: as marriages in Tanzania are recognized in other countries too, what is the legal status of people with many wives when they visit countries like the US? Are they, while in the US, legally polygamists or are they instead polygamists illegally?

 

[Fundi Mchundo]

Hivi kwa nini wake wanne? Kwa nini sio wawili, watatu au watano? Au kiasi mtu anavyoweza? Kwa nini wake wanne? Kwa nini sio waume wawili, watatu,wanne na kuendelea?
Najiuliza tu!

Oh na si waislamu peke yao walio polygamous. Nasikia wamisheni wa Utah hawako nyuma nao!

 

[LazyDog]

Now, let us suppose that a man has two wives, in two distinct houses, and that each wife has some children. Do we have here two families or one family? The answer depends much on what one means by “family”. If “family” means father, mother and possibly children (as it does to most normal people), then you have more than a family when more than one mother is involved.

So, a man with several wives could be a “families man” but not a “family man”. Polygamy distorts the modern concept of “family’ in more fundamental ways. Think of the children. Do the groups of children, of the different wives, not feel loved and cared for, by the father, to different extents? Do jealousies not exist here?

We live in a changed world. Polygamy might have been harmless to the institution of the family in the past, but it now endangers it. We need to protect the rights of women and families by abolishing polygamy. It can be done, and it has been done in many countries.

This is my favorite post today!

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Lazydog,

Asante kwa support. Kinachonishangaza ni ukimya wa wanaharakati. Hawaoni kwamba ni unyanyasaji wa kijinsia kwa wanawake kadhaa kuolewa na mwanamme moja?

Vile vile, nasikitishwa na ukimya wa vikundi vinavyopambana na UKIMWI. Kuruhusu kuoa wanawake wengi ni kuruhusu kueneza UKIMWI.

Na kwanini viongozi wenye wake wengi wanaficha? Wanataka waweze kuendelea kusema lazima kila mtu awe na one faithful partner wakati wenyewe wanao wengi?

 

[Recta]

Lazydog,

Asante kwa support. Kinachonishangaza ni ukimya wa wanaharakati. Hawaoni kwamba ni unyanyasaji wa kijinsia kwa wanawake kadhaa kuolewa na mwanamme moja?

Vile vile, nasikitishwa na ukimya wa vikundi vinavyopambana na UKIMWI. Kuruhusu kuoa wanawake wengi ni kuruhusu kueneza UKIMWI.

Na kwanini viongozi wenye wake wengi wanaficha? Wanataka waweze kuendelea kusema lazima kila mtu awe na one faithful partner wakati wenyewe wanao wengi?

Mimi nashindwa kuona unyanyasaji uliopo kwenye idadi ya wake mwanaume anaoamua kuwaoa (tena kwa ridhaa yao). Nionavyo mimi ni kwamba kuoa na kuolewa ni haki ya kila mwanadamu aliekamilika. Na kitaratibu, mwanaume anatakiwa atoe matunzo sawasawa kwa wake zake wote, ikiwa ni pamoja na kuwahudumia kindoa. Tatizo lililopo kwenye polygamy ni wivu unaoweza kujitokeza kama wanawake hao hawataweza kuweka tofauti zao pembeni na kuishi kama familia (kwa maana kila mmoja ametoka kwenye familia tofauti, na wana malengo tofauti katika makuzi ya watoto wao, n.k).

Kuhusiana na UKIMWI, ni kweli kwamba uwezekano wa kupata UKIMWI unaongeka kila mwanaume na mwanamke wanapokutana kimwili. Ila naamini pia, sababu za kukua kwa UKIMWI nchini hazihusiani na idadi ya wake mtu anaoamua kuoa. Zinahusiana na ustaarabu wa maisha ya ndoa zaidi. Kwa mfano, mtu ana mke/wake nyumbani, anatoka na kwenda kwenye danguro/mtaani kutafuta wanawake wanaojiuza. Ni wazi kuwa, anahatarisha maisha yake kwa kutafuta UKIMWI.

Sidhani kuwa viongozi wanaficha wake zao wengine kwa sababu yoyote zaidi ya kuepuka publicity kutoka kwa jamii. Ni dhahiri kuwa, kadri mke wa kiongozi anapofahamika hadharani, anasababisha interest ya media na jamii nzima kutaka kujua anavyoishi. Inawezekana kuwa kiongozi huyo asingependa hilo liwe wazi kwa jamii, na hivyo kuamua kuficha upande huo wa familia kwa sababu zake mwenyewe na nyinginezo.

 

[Chuma]

Lazydog,

Asante kwa support. Kinachonishangaza ni ukimya wa wanaharakati. Hawaoni kwamba ni unyanyasaji wa kijinsia kwa wanawake kadhaa kuolewa na mwanamme moja?

Vile vile, nasikitishwa na ukimya wa vikundi vinavyopambana na UKIMWI. Kuruhusu kuoa wanawake wengi ni kuruhusu kueneza UKIMWI.

Na kwanini viongozi wenye wake wengi wanaficha? Wanataka waweze kuendelea kusema lazima kila mtu awe na one faithful partner wakati wenyewe wanao wengi?

Kakae na Genge lako la TGNP na Feminist ideas mdanganyane....

 

[Ngekewa]

A Tale of Two Wives​

A couple of days back we had people here claiming that JK had two wives (at least). That sounded like a joke, but having more than one human being for a wife is no laughing matter!

JK is a leader. At east that is what most of us believe. What does it say about his view regarding the dignity of women if he can pick a couple of them as wives? Nothing lowers the dignity of women more than to combine several of them as your wives.

Leaders know that they are held to a higher standard than the rest. That is why some of them hide the fact that they have more than one partner when they are running for office. It is not possible to genuinely say that women have the same dignity as men and then have several of them as your wives.

Are one man and two wives three equal partners? In what way would the ladies be singly equal in dignity to the man and to each other? The dignity of each one of them is grossly violated when they take turns playing wife!

If JK has two wives then he should stop hiding one of them. He should at least have the decency to treat them with equal dignity, both in private and in public. He should take them both on his frequent international travel, and attend all functions with both. If he is embarrassed to be seen to be polygamous, then he ought not be polygamous! Above all, he should bring them both to his public rallies when he runs for re-election. The people deserve to know what kind of a man they are electing into office.

It may well be that some religions allow men to marry several wives. But it does not follow that nations approve of polygamous individuals ruling them. It offends against equality, and it is deeply embarrassing to have a polygamist as your president!

How can women activists in Tanzania close their eyes to polygamy? Polygamy reduces women into objects of pleasure. Women are not the same as men, but they are meant to be of equal dignity to men. In a situation of polygamy, to fight for the dignity of women must include fighting to end the abhorrent practice!

In this postmodern world, it is unacceptable for a nation to embrace polygamy and or polyandry. We must end it this primitive practice[/B]!

To start with you should tolorate others belief and that is one step for someone not to be seen as a primitive person. Rightly your attitude indicate that you are yet among those who are not even civilised.

How could you insult person for something you merely donot approve? We do not approve many things among ourselves but we do not insults each other. Bear in mind that your belief on something does not vouch you to insult others.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Asante Recta kwa logic nzuri. Naomba nichangie kwa kukunukuu kama ifuatavyo:

Mimi nashindwa kuona unyanyasaji uliopo kwenye idadi ya wake mwanaume anaoamua kuwaoa (tena kwa ridhaa yao)

Mwanamme kuamua ni wanawake wangapi awe nao kwa furaha yake ni kuwafanya wanawake wawe vyombo vyake vya starehe. Mwanamke anatakiwa awe mwenzi wa mumewe. Kwa mume kuwa na wenzi wengi anaowapitia kwa ratiba kama jogoo ni kukiuka haki sawa. Ni udhalilishaji wa wanawake.

Tatizo lililopo kwenye polygamy ni wivu unaoweza kujitokeza kama wanawake hao hawataweza kuweka tofauti zao pembeni na kuishi kama familia

Tofauti zao ni huyo mwanamme. Anawafanya wajidhalilishe kwa kumpigania. Ni udhalilishaji wa wanawake kwa ujumla.

Kuhusiana na UKIMWI, ni kweli kwamba uwezekano wa kupata UKIMWI unaongeka kila mwanaume na mwanamke wanapokutana kimwili.

Wanaharakati dhidi ya UKIMWI wanaimba kila siku kwamba tuwe na mwenzi mmoja tu na tuishe naye kwa uaminifu. Cha kuchekesha ni kwamba hata viongozi wenye wake wengi wanaungana nao kusema hivyo hivyo!

Sidhani kuwa viongozi wanaficha wake zao wengine kwa sababu yoyote zaidi ya kuepuka publicity kutoka kwa jamii

Watu wana haki ya kufahamu ni nani anapewa kura yao. Kama kiongozi anatumia wanawake kama vyombo vya starehe, ni haki wapiga kura wafahamu hivyo.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Ngekewa writes:

To start with you should tolerate others belief and that is one step for someone not to be seen as a primitive person. Rightly your attitude indicate that you are yet among those who are not even civilised.

Polygamy is not a belief. It is permitted in Islam, but that does not make it a belief. Note that Islam does not require anyone to be polygamous.

I happen to think that polygamy is a primitive mode of existence. Developed countries have outlawed it. Within the developing countries, the more enlightened sections of the population have abandoned the practice too. That is irrespective of their religion. Young, upwardly mobile and educated Muslims tend to be just as monogamous as young, educated Christians.

I condemn polygamy. I particularly condemn polygamists who hide the fact.

 

[Mkandara]

Augustine Moshi,

Mkuu naheshimu sana mawazo yako lakini ktk hili upo very wrong kwa sababu unatumia fikra zako badala ya ukweli uliopo.. hata mimi sipendi Polygamy na wala sitegemi kuwa ktk kundi hilo pamoja na kwamba kuibia pembeni imo! kwi kwi kwi! fare game au sio maanake hata bibie anaweza kuibia vile vile!..

Nitoke huko nije kwenye facts..
Mkuu sifahamu hesabu ya nchi za Ulaya lakini North Amerika hesabu yake inakwenda hivi:- kati ya ndoa 100 ni zaidi ya asilimia 75 ndoa hizo huvunjika yaani divorce cases ni asilimia 75 to 80 inategema na mwaka( kwenye sheria ya mke mmoja)..Na kati ya divorce hizo ni asilimia zaidi ya 60 huwa tayari wamekwisha pata mtoto/watoto..sababu kubwa ni mmoja kupata buzi/jiko jipya..
Asilimia 90 ya mauaji ya homicide za wanawake nchi za N. Marekani hutokana na wapenzi wao hasa waume walioachina..Na kwa bahati mbaya ktk mauaji ya wanawake wengi wao ni pamoja na familia zao (meaning watoto)..wakati ni less tha 1 percent ya wanaume hufa kwa sababu hizo hizo..
Over 70 percent ya watu wanaotegemea msaaada wa serikali ktk walfare ni wanawake walioachika na kuachiwa watoto, kiasi kwamba serikali za nchi hizi zimelazimika kuunda mfuko maalum kwa ajili ya watoto hawa...Hapa bado sijazungumzia maswala ya watoto waliopitia maisha ya divorce jinsi wanavyoharibika ktk makuzi yao wakiwa na single mothers, bado sijagusia watoto yatima na malezi yao huko fosterhomes na kadhalika!..

HIV ni ugonjwa mkubwa sana ktk nchi maskini na hasa kusini mwa sahara.. Na katika nchi za kusini mwa sahara Ni Tanzania peke yake inayotoa uhuru wa wake wengi..
Nchi nyinginezo ikiwa ni pamoja na South Afrika ndizo zinaongoza kwa Ukimwi kuliko hata Tanzania....

Sasa nirudi kwa nchi zenye kutukuza mila ya ndoa ya wanawake wengi..Pengine hakuna mfano mzuri kama nchi za Kiarabu ambao mbali na mila yao ruksa ya kidini pia imechangia..
Hawa divorce rate yao iko chini sana less than 40 ya ndoa 100. Kuhusu Ukimwi hizi nchi nikama vile hawakuna yaani wanausikia tu kwenye luninga.. wapo walioathirika lakini sio swala la kutisha kama nchi zetu..
Sasa umezungumzia swala la haki kwa wanawake... Mkuu wangu mwanamke wa nchi hizi ana nguvu za ajabu..
Tukiacha mila chafu za waarabu kuwachunga wake zao na pengine kuwakataza hata kuendesha gari na kwenda shopping peke yake na kadhalika..
Hizi ni mila ambazo naweza kukubaliana na wewe kuwa ni kuwadhalilisha wanawake lakini sio swala la kuoa wake wengi.. nitarudia kusema ndoa za wake wengi hazihusiani na ngono na hakuna sheria wala kitabu hata kimoja kinachosema haki ya binadamu ni mwanamme mmoja kwa mwanamke mmoja..Nitarudia kusema kwamba kama ndoa ya wanawake wengi ingekuwa inatazama zaidi ngono basi sisi wengine tusingeoa kabisa kwani tulikuwa tukipata mboga za kila aina tulipokuwa vijana na single..tukibadilisha kama chupi vile na wanasuichana hawakuwa nyuma, akienda disco anarudi na buzi lake, yet kila siku analilia kuolewa...
Now ukinambia LOVE mkuu bado sikubaliani kwa sababu nampenda mama yangu kama mke wangu ingawa sitembei naye. na kama kuna mtu atanambia nichague kati ya Mama yangu au mke wangu basi nitamchukia huyo alotoa swali hilo kwa sababu hakuna jibu...siwezi ku measure mapenzi yangu kwa waazazi wangu kwa kutumia uzito wa mke!..It goes on and On..
Kwa hiyo Ndoa ni lazima iwe na makusudio mengine.. na inategemea na kila mtu kwa nini unaoa hivyo ni swala la Individual.. kila mmoja wetu ana choice na vipaumbele vyake ktk ndoa aidha iwe mzazi mwenzake au mshiriki tu wa kimaisha (wapo watu wanaoa/Olewa na mtu tasa) na hata wengine wanatafuta tui status ya kuonekana ameolewa..sababu ni nyingi sana ambazo hazina hata hesabu hivyo inategemea na mazingira, wakati, nafasi na mtu mwenyewe unataka kuoa mke wa pili au tatu kwa sababu zipi!..
As a matter of fact hapa nilipo nimekwisha ombwa mara kibao na girlfriend wangu wa long time awe hata mke wa pili..wala sii mara moja.. yeye ndiye anataka kuwa mke wa pili sio mimi sasa hapa mkuu namdhalilisha vipi?, pengine napokataa kuwa haliwezekani ndio namdhalilisha..and U know what I feel her!..
Kwi kwi kwi!

 

[Interested Observer]

MKandara;
Iran imepiga marufuku Polygamy - It is 99.99% muslims
Turkey imepiga marufuku Polygamy It is 90% muslims
In other Arab nations kama wewe unavyosema siyo polygamy iliyozuia divorce na ukimwi; ni mila ya matunzo ya wanawake. Ukienda UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc utamwona wapi mwanamke? Hata wakitoka ndani lazima wasionyeshe nyuso. Hata ku-shake hands hawaruhusiwi. Ukienda kumtembelea rafiki yako huwezi hata kumwona mkewe au hata dada zake. Ukitembea mitaa ya UAE ukamkonyeza mwanamke akikikushitaki tu wewe ni lupango. Sokoni kwenyewe wanawake hao hawakujui. Mifano yako haipo.

Sema hivi sisi kwa kudandia mila za watu na kusahau zetu, kuwatunza wanawake wetu na kutojali utu wao ndiyo umetufikisha hapa tulipo. Msizingizie Dini, wala urithi wa hizo mila za Kiarabu au Kizungu; waafrika tuko Very very weak, our bodies, our mindset, and sometimes I think even our IQs!

 

[Ilongo]

MKandara;
Iran imepiga marufuku Polygamy - It is 99.99% muslims
Turkey imepiga marufuku Polygamy It is 90% muslims
In other Arab nations kama wewe unavyosema siyo polygamy iliyozuia divorce na ukimwi; ni mila ya matunzo ya wanawake. Ukienda UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc utamwona wapi mwanamke? Hata wakitoka ndani lazima wasionyeshe nyuso. Hata ku-shake hands hawaruhusiwi. Ukienda kumtembelea rafiki yako huwezi hata kumwona mkewe au hata dada zake. Ukitembea mitaa ya UAE ukamkonyeza mwanamke akikikushitaki tu wewe ni lupango. Sokoni kwenyewe wanawake hao hawakujui. Mifano yako haipo.

Sema hivi sisi kwa kudandia mila za watu na kusahau zetu, kuwatunza wanawake wetu na kutojali utu wao ndiyo umetufikisha hapa tulipo. Msizingizie Dini, wala urithi wa hizo mila za Kiarabu au Kizungu; waafrika tuko Very very weak, our bodies, our mindset, and sometimes I think even our IQs!

Halafu usisahau kwamba sisi wengine mila zetu ni pamoja na kuoa wake wengi ... Up hapo? teh teh teh teh teh teh!!!!

 

[Interested Observer]

Halafu usisahau kwamba sisi wengine mila zetu ni pamoja na kuoa wake wengi ... Up hapo? teh teh teh teh teh teh!!!!

Hamna hiyo mila, ni Weakness tu!

 

[Ilongo]

Hamna hiyo mila, ni Weakness tu!

wewe utaiita weakness kwa kuwa ninyi hamna hiyo, lakini sisi kwetu ni mila ... halafu hakuna idadi maalum ... ni mila yetu tu hata iweje!!

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Mjadala huu unavuta hisia tofauti kutegemeana na issues.

Mimi nashindwa kuona unyanyasaji uliopo kwenye idadi ya wake mwanaume anaoamua kuwaoa (tena kwa ridhaa yao).

Anayeolewa hajanyanyaswa maana kapenda mwenyewe.Anayeletewa mke mwenza bila ridhaa , huyo ananyanyaswa
" Tatizo lililopo kwenye polygamy ni wivu unaoweza kujitokeza kama wanawake hao hawataweza kuweka tofauti zao pembeni na kuishi kama familia (kwa maana kila mmoja ametoka kwenye familia tofauti, na wana malengo tofauti katika makuzi ya watoto wao, n.k)."

Hapa napo pana shida kubwa.Polygamy ndipo inapoleta mitafaruku kwenye jamii!Ni mara chache sana kukuta harmony in a polygamous family


"Sidhani kuwa viongozi wanaficha wake zao wengine kwa sababu yoyote zaidi ya kuepuka publicity kutoka kwa jamii."

Kwanini aepuke publicity ilhali kafanya kitendo "kizuri"kufuatana na maadili ya mila au imani yake? basi kuna jambo!