In case you dont know: Out of its fleet of 40 aeroplanes, KQ Owns only 3 planes fully paid for by the carrier!

[kennedy0000]

What you don't know is those banks formed a group and have the maximum share in the KQ of more than 38% so they are the part and parcel of the entire company,

Stop the mumbo jumbo and realise the plain fact, you know nothing

View attachment 1043908

What you don't know is that the banks that formed the KQ ownership group are all local banks which KQ had loans with. ie. KCB, Equity, CBA, Coop, I&M, NIC, DTB.

While the banks that financed the planes are major international banks, which have nothing to do with KQ ownership.
ie. JP Morgan, City Bank, Afrexim Bank, Standard Chartered International.

Stop the mumbo jumbo and realise the plain fact, you know nothing.

 

[REDEEMER.]

What you don't know is that the banks that formed the KQ ownership group are all local banks which KQ had loans with. ie. KCB, Equity, CBA, Coop, I&M, NIC, DTB.

While the banks that financed the planes are major international banks, which have nothing to do with KQ ownership.
ie. JP Morgan, City Bank, Afrexim Bank, Standard Chartered International.

Stop the mumbo jumbo and realise the plain fact, you know nothing.

View attachment 1043911

All 20 planes have been financed by the foreigners as shown in that sheet, there's no a single penny from your local banks, how they concern on issue? Do you want to say they're brokers/third parties, the terms of servicing that loan is between your government and foreign banks, JPMorgan City Bank and the Co can't stand with your local banks on this issue.

 

[Casa]

Lol. You should have just asked where the statement came from.
This is actually from CS Macharia's Twitter.

You did not address the issues I raised in my plea for an educated response. Remember, I clarified my thread in the context of the proposed KQ-KAA merger. Again, here are the specific questions:

1- Why is it that the KAA opposes the merger of the sister company. Re: Babu Owino's involvement.

2 - If ownership of planes or leasing is insignificant, why has that been a KQs/government closely guided secret? Why did it require pressure for the KQ/government to ‘come clean’?

3 – Why concerns over the ownership of the planes came up in the wake of the opposition to the merger? In other words, if leasing is a common business practice, why is it raised as a concern in the merger?

Unless you address these issues, I will draw a conclusion that you failed to address my view of KQ being a scam.

 

[kennedy0000]

All 20 planes have been financed by the foreigners as shown in that sheet, there's no a single penny from your local banks, how they concern on issue? Do you want to say they're brokers/third parties, the terms of servicing that loan is between your government and foreign banks, JPMorgan City Bank and the Co can't stand with your local banks on this issue.

The local banks converted their own loans to equity. What's so hard to understand about that?
That loan had nothing to do with purchase of aircraft.

The banks that financed the purchase of aircraft are the international banks listed. They have no equity and their loans will be repaid over many years as agreed.

 

[Casa]

Travelling in a plane does not make you knowledgeable on aviation matters.

This is the global total leased aircraft in percentage.
1976 - 2%
1990 - 15%
2000 - 25%
2017 - 40%

Even a blind man can see the trend.

Do you think the financing will come from thin air?

Give examples of the national carrier, a SkyTeam member, in particular, operating with only 7.5% of its fleet fully paid for.
Don’t think I’m oblivious to the fact that the airline industry is run on the basis of leasing and financing arrangements. But at 92.5% common sense dictates that KQ did not adequately invest in assets in the first place relative to the expected size of its operations. If the investment was adequate, then losses accumulated over time out of unreasonable wage bill, corruption or mismanagement, have been carefully covered and carried forward by venturing into different alternative survival strategies (the scam!).

Again, if the plane ownership is not an issue why is it being raised as a concern now?

 

[kennedy0000]

You did not address the issues I raised in my plea for an educated response. Remember, I clarified my thread in the context of the proposed KQ-KAA merger. Again, here are the specific questions:

1- Why is it that the KAA opposes the merger of the sister company. Re: Babu Owino's involvement.

2 - If ownership of planes or leasing is insignificant, why has that been a KQs/government closely guided secret? Why did it require pressure for the KQ/government to ‘come clean’?

3 – Why concerns over the ownership of the planes came up in the wake of the opposition to the merger? In other words, if leasing is a common business practice, why is it raised as a concern in the merger?

Unless you address these issues, I will draw a conclusion that you failed to address my view of KQ being a scam.

1. Airport workers have their reasons for the opposition. eg. Will there be layoffs.. etc.
Babu Owino is the MP for the area JKIA is located, and also a member of Parliament's Public Investment Committee.

2. The issue of leasing or ownership has never come up again. In fact, compared to something like Ethiopian, KQ is quite open.
We don't even know how many Ethiopian planes are leased of under debt repayment.

3. Who has raised leasing as a concern?
The only concern I've heard is that KQ is loss making and they want to take over a profit making entity.

 

[kennedy0000]

Give examples of the national carrier, a SkyTeam member, in particular, operating with only 7.5% of its fleet fully paid for.
Don’t think I’m oblivious to the fact that the airline industry is run on the basis of leasing and financing arrangements. But at 92.5% common sense dictates that KQ did not adequately invest in assets in the first place relative to the expected size of its operations. If the investment was adequate, then losses accumulated over time out of unreasonable wage bill, corruption or mismanagement, have been carefully covered and carried forward by venturing into different alternative survival strategies (the scam!).

Again, if the plane ownership is not an issue why is it being raised as a concern now?

I don't have time to do the research for you.
You can as well Google and see how many airlines lease their planes.

Let me help you a bit. - Why Are Airlines Leasing More Aircraft?

The aim for any sensible person is to have 100% leased fleet.
For the same amount of money you buy 1 dreamliner, you can lease maybe 5 over a reasonable period of time.

It's the same way supermarkets started rapid expansion once they stopped constructing the premises they operate on, but rather leasing malls.

KQ has many mismanagement issues over time, but the decision to turn to leasing is not one of them.

 

[Casa]

The only concern I've heard is that KQ is loss making and they want to take over a profit making entity.

KAA does not want to be associated with KQ - a loss-making entity.

Ownership is being raised because it is at the core of the loss-generation equation.

Case closed.

 

[kennedy0000]

KAA does not want to be associated with KQ - a loss-making entity.

Ownership is being raised because it is at the core of the loss-generation equation.

Case closed.

You don't even know what you are talking about.

KAA is a wholly owned government entity, that operates about 9 airports in Kenya.

Kenya Airways does not want to take over KAA.
Kenya Airways wants to take over JKIA... Just one of the airports operated by KAA.

Most of the airport revenue is already coming from Kenya Airways anyway, and they want it to remain with Kenya Airways.
The same way Ethiopian Airlines does at Bole.

 

[Casa]

You don't even know what you are talking about.

KAA is a wholly owned government entity, that operates about 9 airports in Kenya.

Kenya Airways does not want to take over KAA.
Kenya Airways wants to take over JKIA... Just one of the airports operated by KAA.

Most of the airport revenue is already coming from Kenya Airways anyway, and they want it to remain with Kenya Airways.
The same way Ethiopian Airlines does at Bole.

“The loss widened the Sh3.3 billion net loss the airline reported a year earlier, reflecting the impact of acquiring new aircraft on debt….”

https://www.businessdailyafrica.com...25-7bn-loss/539550-2813746-dafxytz/index.html

You need to be clever to convince me on this one.

 

[kennedy0000]

“The loss widened the Sh3.3 billion net loss the airline reported a year earlier, reflecting the impact of acquiring new aircraft on debt….”

Kenya Airways reports record Sh26bn net loss

You need to be clever to convince me on this one.

I don't need to convince you.

KQ is missing out on airport revenue.
Something Ethiopian, Emirates and a few successful others don't do.

KAA is taking the money out of KQ's pockets.

 

[Casa]

I don't need to convince you.

KQ is missing out on airport revenue.
Something Ethiopian, Emirates and a few successful others don't do.

KAA is taking the money out of KQ's pockets.

“…..MPs said the deal, in which KQ tentatively would run JKIA for 30 years, is suspect and a case of connivance among influential forces to rip off taxpayers….”

“….The committee has written to the Investments Secretary, demanding to know who the real shareholders at KQ are, noting that the proposed JKIA takeover will not be viable….”

JKIA takeover: MPs link Kenyatta family

Bole Airport changed ownership only in 2016/17!

My take:

Many airlines have recorded massive losses oftentimes associated with the spike in fuel prices but a closer look would reveal that they all suffer from mismanagement and in particular rampant corruption.

It’s interesting how Kenyans fail to recognize the seriousness of the scourge of corruption and instead fall prey to culprits' brainwashing.

This is what I always refer to as “The Kenyan Conundrum” – an admixture of grand corruption, tribalism and nepotism/cronyism in different spheres of societal life.

 

[REDEEMER.]

The local banks converted their own loans to equity. What's so hard to understand about that?
That loan had nothing to do with purchase of aircraft.

The banks that financed the purchase of aircraft are the international banks listed. They have no equity and their loans will be repaid over many years as agreed.

Kenyan banks have nothing to do with 20 planes, I repeat again there's absolutely nothing your banks could offer on planes purchasing, may be color selection

Usihangaike hapa kupakia mzigo wa train kwenye tray la mayai, won't work bro

 

[kennedy0000]

Kenyan banks have nothing to do with 20 planes, I repeat again there's absolutely nothing your banks could offer on planes purchasing, may be color selection

Usihangaike hapa kupakia mzigo wa train kwenye tray la mayai, won't work bro

You have a funny way of eating your words.
There is no shame in admitting you had no idea what you were talking about.

 

[kennedy0000]

“…..MPs said the deal, in which KQ tentatively would run JKIA for 30 years, is suspect and a case of connivance among influential forces to rip off taxpayers….”

“….The committee has written to the Investments Secretary, demanding to know who the real shareholders at KQ are, noting that the proposed JKIA takeover will not be viable….”

JKIA takeover: MPs link Kenyatta family

Bole Airport changed ownership only in 2016/17!

My take:

Many airlines have recorded massive losses oftentimes associated with the spike in fuel prices but a closer look would reveal that they all suffer from mismanagement and in particular rampant corruption.

It’s interesting how Kenyans fail to recognize the seriousness of the scourge of corruption and instead fall prey to culprits' brainwashing.

This is what I always refer to as “The Kenyan Conundrum” – an admixture of grand corruption, tribalism and nepotism/cronyism in different spheres of societal life.

You don't have to use big words to sound smart.

KQ is a national brand. It is responsible for the vast majority of passengers at JKIA.
JKIA makes most of its profit directly from Kenya Airways.

Why should KQ be struggling when it is the biggest money maker for JKIA?

My view is that it is wise for KQ to take over JKIA.
But since JKIA is a fully owned government entity, while KQ is not, it can't just be a direct take over.

Shareholding at KQ must be adjusted to reflect government bringing in more assets and revenue.
In short, if KQ takes over JKIA, the government shareholding must increase considerably.

 

[Teargass]

The beast is coming back home this year

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

 

[Casa]

My view is that it is wise for KQ to take over JKIA.
But since JKIA is a fully owned government entity, while KQ is not, it can't just be a direct take over.

Shareholding at KQ must be adjusted to reflect government bringing in more assets and revenue.
In short, if KQ takes over JKIA, the government shareholding must increase considerably.

Never mind my language.

In essence, you support government involvement in the running of the consolidated KQ/JKIA by way of ownership. Fine.

But what about the MPs’ valid concerns over viability? You did not touch on this. Also, remember the 'Kenyan Conundrum' factor that I highlighted.

You tend to avoid pertinently points in my posts.

 

[Casa]

Why should KQ be struggling when it is the biggest money maker for JKIA?

.

Grand corruption is at the core of the KQ aeroplanes ownership circus where leasing and financial arrangements have been used as ploys to sustain the carrier’s survival. Therefore, ownership is at the core of the KQ loss-generation equation.

Unless you face the problem of grand corruption squarely and the conundrum factoring in general, a few years after the consolidation you will be asking yourself why the KQ continues to accumulate losses whereas it runs the JKIA.

 

[coodip1]

The local banks converted their own loans to equity. What's so hard to understand about that?
That loan had nothing to do with purchase of aircraft.

The banks that financed the purchase of aircraft are the international banks listed. They have no equity and their loans will be repaid over many years as agreed.

What I see here the involvement of local banks is in issuance of loan security Incase KQ defaults on its payment terms to foreign lenders. What happened some of this loan security funds have been used before to settle KQ obligations to foreign lenders and have now been converted to equities. The foreign lenders are behind the leasing of JKIA as a security measure to guarantee their returns since KAA is a profitable venture just on the same lines like what Mombasa port is to the Chinese. This is what I perceived you are welcome to challenge me on this.

 

[kennedy0000]

What I see here the involvement of local banks is in issuance of loan security Incase KQ defaults on its payment terms to foreign lenders. What happened some of this loan security funds have been used before to settle KQ obligations to foreign lenders and have now been converted to equities. The foreign lenders are behind the leasing of JKIA as a security measure to guarantee their returns since KAA is a profitable venture just on the same lines like what Mombasa port is to the Chinese. This is what I perceived you are welcome to challenge me on this.

Most of the revenue at JKIA comes from KQ. However, KAA pockets it.
Most of the revenue at Bole comes from Ethiopian Airlines. In their case however, Ethiopian Airlines keeps the money.