,,Independence of the Police“ maana yake nini?

[Barbarosa]

Nimesoma kwenye Gazeti kwamba moja kati ya Madai ya Upinzani wa Kenya ni kutaka kuwe na ,,Independence of the Police“ sasa nashindwa kuelewa wanamaanisha nini wanaposema Polisi wasiingiliwe na Wanasiasa?

Nijuavyo mimi Jeshi la Polisi liko chini ya Wizara ambayo inaongozwa na Waziri ktk Chama tawala, sasa unawezaje kutenganisha Polisi na Wanasiasa?

Ningependa kupata ufafanuzi hapo kwa wenye uelewa!

 

[pingli-nywee]

Hamna kitu kama independence of the police chini ya katiba ya Kenya. Kazi ya polisi ni kulinda usalama wa ndani kwa ndani wa nchi, chini ya sheria. Independence yao ni kufata sheria, bila ya maagizo 'kutoka juu' ambayo yanaeza kuwa si ya kisheria. Labda 'independence of the judiciary' yaani mahakama. Sisi wakenya tulio makini, tumewajua CORD/NASA/NRM/ODM, tangu zamani. Ni watu wasio na agenda yeyote ya maana kwa nchi yetu ya Kenya. Ni vichaa fulani tu, ambao wanaongozwa na kiu ya damu na njaa ya mamlaka. Usiwasikize sana, kawaida yao huwa ni watu wa kulialia kuhusu kila jambo, lakini huwa hawaji na 'solution' za maana.

 

[Nkanini]

Nimesoma kwenye Gazeti kwamba moja kati ya Madai ya Upinzani wa Kenya ni kutaka kuwe na ,,Independence of the Police“ sasa nashindwa kuelewa wanamaanisha nini wanaposema Polisi wasiingiliwe na Wanasiasa?

Nijuavyo mimi Jeshi la Polisi liko chini ya Wizara ambayo inaongozwa na Waziri ktk Chama tawala, sasa unawezaje kutenganisha Polisi na Wanasiasa?

Ningependa kupata ufafanuzi hapo kwa wenye uelewa!

yes jeshi la polisi lipo kwa ajili ya usalama wa raia na mali zao,na hili ndio lengo lao kubwa na pia ni lazima lifanye kazi zake kwa kufuata katiba na wajibu wa kisheria za nchi,kuwepo kwa waziri wa polisi au mambo ya ndani ni kwa ajili ya political responsibility kwa polisi,huyu ni msimamiaji wa sera za chama tawala,polisi kisheria hawawajibiki kutendea kazi amri za wanasiasa ,wajibu wao ni kuangalia kuwa sheria zinafuatwa,mfano RC akiamrisha kuwa MB awekwe ndani ni wajibu wa polisi kumshauri RC kwanza afungue kesi kwao ili uchunguzi ufanyike kama MB AMETENDA KOSA THEN HATUA YA UKAMATAJI ITAFUATWA,na elewa your innocent until proved quilty by court of law,na pili ni vema tukawa na IPID hawa ni kama MPs wa jeshi,kazi yao ni kuhakikisha kuwa polisi wanafanya kazi zao kisheria,raia unapoona haujatendewa haki na polisi unawaona hawa na hawa wana uwezo wa kuchunguza tuuhuma hizo na ikibidi kumkamata polisi na kumfungulia mashitaka,hapa kwetu hatuna hili ndio maana polisi wapo kama nusu miungu.ni haki yetu kuwa karibu na jeshi hili ili kufanikisha utendaji wake.

 

[Barbarosa]

yes jeshi la polisi lipo kwa ajili ya usalama wa raia na mali zao,na hili ndio lengo lao kubwa na pia ni lazima lifanye kazi zake kwa kufuata katiba na wajibu wa kisheria za nchi,kuwepo kwa waziri wa polisi au mambo ya ndani ni kwa ajili ya political responsibility kwa polisi,huyu ni msimamiaji wa sera za chama tawala,polisi kisheria hawawajibiki kutendea kazi amri za wanasiasa ,wajibu wao ni kuangalia kuwa sheria zinafuatwa,mfano RC akiamrisha kuwa MB awekwe ndani ni wajibu wa polisi kumshauri RC kwanza afungue kesi kwao ili uchunguzi ufanyike kama MB AMETENDA KOSA THEN HATUA YA UKAMATAJI ITAFUATWA,na elewa your innocent until proved quilty by court of law,na pili ni vema tukawa na IPID hawa ni kama MPs wa jeshi,kazi yao ni kuhakikisha kuwa polisi wanafanya kazi zao kisheria,raia unapoona haujatendewa haki na polisi unawaona hawa na hawa wana uwezo wa kuchunguza tuuhuma hizo na ikibidi kumkamata polisi na kumfungulia mashitaka,hapa kwetu hatuna hili ndio maana polisi wapo kama nusu miungu.ni haki yetu kuwa karibu na jeshi hili ili kufanikisha utendaji wake.

Lkn unawezaje kutenganisha Jeshi na Siasa wakati Bosi wao Mkuu ni Mwanasiasa? Polisi iko chini ya aidha Meya wa Mji, Waziri wa Wizara husika au Mkuu wa Wilaya inategemeana na mfumo wa nchi, sasa mtu anaposema utenganishe Polisi na Wanasiasa inawezekana vipi wakati anayeamua Amri ya Polisi ni Mwanasiasa?

 

[Nkanini]

Lkn unawezaje kutenganisha Jeshi na Siasa wakati Bosi wao Mkuu ni Mwanasiasa? Polisi iko chini ya aidha Meya wa Mji, Waziri wa Wizara husika au Mkuu wa Wilaya inategemeana na mfumo wa nchi, sasa mtu anaposema utenganishe Polisi na Wanasiasa inawezekana vipi wakati anayeamua Amri ya Polisi ni Mwanasiasa?

no no mkuu kuna clear line kati ya polisi na wanasiasa,polisi hawachukui amri kutoka kwa wanasiasa,polisi wapo pale kufuata miongozo iliyopo kisheria,hao mabosi wao ni political principal wao hawako kwenye ranks za kipolisi ndio maana tuna mkuu wa jeshi la polisi,tatizo la nchi yetu ni ubovu wa utawala bora,mkuu wa polisi ilitakiwa apatikane kwa mahojiano na kamati za bunge,wanachuja majina kama 3 ndio yanapelekwa kwa our no 1 kwa uteuzi wa mwisho,mkuu huyu wa polisi HAAPI KWA RAIS,bali kwa JAJI means ataapa kulinda sheria,na elewa rais wa nchi hawezi kumfukuza au kumsimamisha kazi bila ya ridhaa ya bunge.

 

[Barbarosa]

no no mkuu kuna clear line kati ya polisi na wanasiasa,polisi hawachukui amri kutoka kwa wanasiasa,polisi wapo pale kufuata miongozo iliyopo kisheria,hao mabosi wao ni political principal wao hawako kwenye ranks za kipolisi ndio maana tuna mkuu wa jeshi la polisi,tatizo la nchi yetu ni ubovu wa utawala bora,mkuu wa polisi ilitakiwa apatikane kwa mahojiano na kamati za bunge,wanachuja majina kama 3 ndio yanapelekwa kwa our no 1 kwa uteuzi wa mwisho,mkuu huyu wa polisi HAAPI KWA RAIS,bali kwa JAJI means ataapa kulinda sheria,na elewa rais wa nchi hawezi kumfukuza au kumsimamisha kazi bila ya ridhaa ya bunge.

Sidhani kama unaelewa unachokiongea, hata hao Wazungu wenyewe ni hivyo Meya wa Mji Polisi iko chini yake na ndiyo wanaopanga sera za Polisi kwenye Mji husika, hivyo Wanasiasa kwa mfano wanaweza wakaamua kutuma Polisi eneo fulani au kutokutuma na hii iko ndani ya Mamlaka yao!
Kwa mfano Meya anaweza akaamua eneo xyz ni korofi litumiwe Polisi au la au liongezewe special Police nk siyo Mkuu wa Polisi, Mkuu wa Polisi na yeye anapokea maagizo ktk kwa wakubwa wake ambao kwenye chain of command unaisha kwa Mwanasiasa ndiyo maana kukitokea Mauaji hata Mahakama za Kimataifa hushitaki Wanasiasa na siyo Polisi kwani ndiyo wanaoamua!

Mimi nafikiri hata hii mifumo ya Wazungu sidhani kama mnaielewa vizuri ingawaje mnafikiri mnaielewa isitoshe kwa mfano mfumo wetu hatukuunda sisi uliachwa na Wazungu na hakuna tulichobadilisha!

 

[MK254]

Kama unakielewa Kingereza soma hapa kinpengee cha katiba yetu, kwa kifupi waziri hana mamlaka ya kuamrisha kamata kamata, ni tofauti sana na ilivyo Tanzania ambapo huwa tunaona Bashite akiamrisha kamata yule, mtie dani huyu, muweke lock up yule pale, mpeleke ndani huyu.


(4) The Cabinet secretary responsible for police services may lawfully give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to any matter of policy for the National Police Service, but no person may give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to--

(a) the investigation of any particular offence or offences;
(b) the enforcement of the law against any particular person or persons; or
(c) the employment, assignment, promotion, suspension or dismissal of any member of the National Police Service.

 

[Barbarosa]

Kama unakielewa Kingereza soma hapa kinpengee cha katiba yetu, kwa kifupi waziri hana mamlaka ya kuamrisha kamata kamata, ni tofauti sana na ilivyo Tanzania ambapo huwa tunaona Bashite akiamrisha kamata yule, mtie dani huyu, muweke lock up yule pale, mpeleke ndani huyu.


(4) The Cabinet secretary responsible for police services may lawfully give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to any matter of policy for the National Police Service, but no person may give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to--

(a) the investigation of any particular offence or offences;
(b) the enforcement of the law against any particular person or persons; or
(c) the employment, assignment, promotion, suspension or dismissal of any member of the National Police Service.

Mimi siyo Mwanasheria hivyo siwezi kuchambua hivyo vifungu vya Sheria ulivyoviweka hivyo hainisadii sana, huyo Cabinet secretary kwani siyo Mwanasiasa? Sasa mbona bado ana influence kwa Polisi kwa jinsi ilivyoandikwa hapo?

 

[MK254]

Mimi siyo Mwanasheria hivyo siwezi kuchambua hivyo vifungu vya Sheria ulivyoviweka hivyo hainisadii sana, huyo Cabinet secretary kwani siyo Mwanasiasa? Sasa mbona bado ana influence kwa Polisi kwa jinsi ilivyoandikwa hapo?

Sio kila kitu lazima kichambuliwe na mwanasheria, na kama lazima utegemee mwanasheria basi wacha kusumbua watu na maswali ambayo huna uwezo wa kuelewa majibu yake.

Hapo sheria imesema waziri jukumu lake lipo kwenye masuala ya sera na lazima ifanyike kwa mujibu wa sheria. Lakini pia ikaongeza hana mamlaka ya kuwaamrisha polisi nani wamkamate, au nani aongezwe madaraka au apunguziwe, hana mamlaka ya kuamrisha kamata kamata kama za huko kwenu.

Can you handle the truth, don't ask for the truth if you can't handle it

 

[Barbarosa]

Sio kila kitu lazima kichambuliwe na mwanasheria, na kama lazima utegemee mwanasheria basi wacha kusumbua watu na maswali ambayo huna uwezo wa kuelewa majibu yake.

Hapo sheria imesema waziri jukumu lake lipo kwenye masuala ya sera na lazima ifanyike kwa mujibu wa sheria. Lakini pia ikaongeza hana mamlaka ya kuwaamrisha polisi nani wamkamate, au nani aongezwe madaraka au apunguziwe, hana mamlaka ya kuamrisha kamata kamata kama za huko kwenu.

Can you handle the truth, don't ask for the truth if you can't handle it

Duh! Haya bhana kama ni hivyo ndivyo ilivyo basi ngoja tuone hiyo ,,independence of Police“ inavyofanya kazi kwani hii ni mpya Dunia hii kwamba Waziri wa Wizara ambayo Polisi iko chini yake hana Madaraka yoyote wala maamuzi yoyote kwa Jeshi la Polisi, hilo sijawahi kusikia!

 

[MK254]

Duh! Haya bhana kama ni hivyo ndivyo ilivyo basi ngoja tuone hiyo ,,independence of Police“ inavyofanya kazi kwani hii ni mpya Dunia hii kwamba Waziri wa Wizara ambayo Polisi iko chini yake hana Madaraka yoyote wala maamuzi yoyote kwa Jeshi la Polisi, hilo sijawahi kusikia!

Utamu wa katiba mpya, ndivyo ilivyo, zamani tuliishi maisha ya uwoga uwoga, polisi walikua wanaamrishwa na kila kiongozi, yaani hata chifu kitaani alikua na uwezo wa kusema "kamata yule na akae ndani hadi siku nitaamrisha vinginevyo".
Huwa natazama video za Makonda hapo Dar, anavyoamrisha kamata kamata hadharani hadi nafurahi maana tulitoka huko kitambo.

 

[Barbarosa]

Utamu wa katiba mpya, ndivyo ilivyo, zamani tuliishi maisha ya uwoga uwoga, polisi walikua wanaamrishwa na kila kiongozi, yaani hata chifu kitaani alikua na uwezo wa kusema "kamata yule na akae ndani hadi siku nitaamrisha vinginevyo".
Huwa natazama video za Makonda hapo Dar, anavyoamrisha kamata kamata hadharani hadi nafurahi maana tulitoka huko kitambo.

Uko kama wenzako wa chadema, mnarahisisha mambo bila hata kuelewa!
The devil is in the detail, wanasema Wazungu, hivyo endelea kuamini hivyo hivyo kama Wanasiasa hawana influence kwa Jeshi la Polisi ambao liko chini ya Wizara au Mji!

 

[Mwanzi1]

Kama unakielewa Kingereza soma hapa kinpengee cha katiba yetu, kwa kifupi waziri hana mamlaka ya kuamrisha kamata kamata, ni tofauti sana na ilivyo Tanzania ambapo huwa tunaona Bashite akiamrisha kamata yule, mtie dani huyu, muweke lock up yule pale, mpeleke ndani huyu.


(4) The Cabinet secretary responsible for police services may lawfully give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to any matter of policy for the National Police Service, but no person may give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to--

(a) the investigation of any particular offence or offences;
(b) the enforcement of the law against any particular person or persons; or
(c) the employment, assignment, promotion, suspension or dismissal of any member of the National Police Service.

Kazi ya mkuu wa mkoa wa Tanzania ni sawa na kazi ya county governor wa Kenya. Wote ni wenyeviti wa ulinzi na usalama wa maeneo yalio chini ya utawala wao.

•Promote peace and order within the county

 

[KichwaNgumu254]

Kazi ya mkuu wa mkoa wa Tanzania ni sawa na kazi ya county governor wa Kenya. Wote ni wenyeviti wa ulinzi na usalama wa maeneo yalio chini ya utawala wao.

•Promote peace and order within the county

Hapana! A governor is in charge of devolved county government functions,a political entity where he is elected into office. While County Commissioner na County Police Commandant appointed from within civil/police service under national govt is in charge of security and anything to do with national govt programs.

 

[Jodoki Kalimilo]

Lkn unawezaje kutenganisha Jeshi na Siasa wakati Bosi wao Mkuu ni Mwanasiasa? Polisi iko chini ya aidha Meya wa Mji, Waziri wa Wizara husika au Mkuu wa Wilaya inategemeana na mfumo wa nchi, sasa mtu anaposema utenganishe Polisi na Wanasiasa inawezekana vipi wakati anayeamua Amri ya Polisi ni Mwanasiasa?

Ndio maana kuna miiko ya utumishi wa umma pamoja na kwamba serikali imeundwa na wanasiasa...pale ambapo mwanasiasa (Waziri) anapopewa yale madaraka anakuwa upande wa serikali kwa maana ya kuhudumia wananchi kwa kufuata misingi ya utumishi wa umma kwa kufuata sheria na katiba pasipo kuhusisha na siasa (tatizo linakuja kwa nchi zetu ambapo inakuwa ngumu kutofautisha haya mambo). Na ndio maana kwa upande wa Tanzania tulipofuata mfumo wa vyama vingi ukatengenezwa mfumo mpya ambao pindi chama kimojawapo kinachukua nchi na kuunda serilikali kinakuwa kinafuata utaratibu huo bila kufanya bias

Kwahiyo pamoja na kwamba anaeamua amri ya polisi ni mwanasiasa lakini wakati huo anakuwa amekabidhiwa madaraka ya kuongoza serikali ambapo inafuata sheria na katiba ya nchi husika na si matakwa yake japokuwa inawezekana pia akapindisha kwa maslahi ya chama chake pia (napo ndipo wananzengo wanapoibuka na kulaumu "misingi ya katiba haikufuatwa")

 

[Mwanzi1]

Hapana! A governor is in charge of devolved county government functions,a political entity where he is elected into office. While County Commissioner na County Police Commandant appointed from within civil/police service under national govt is in charge of security and anything to do with national govt programs.

In that sense, KE county commissioners are equal to our regional commissioners even though our RC have both political and security powers. So Governors are left with very limited things they can do same as local mayor in commonwealth governing system.

 

[KichwaNgumu254]

In that sense, KE county commissioners are equal to our regional commissioners even though our RC have both political and security powers. So Governors are left with very limited things they can do same as local mayor in commonwealth governing system.

Governors have authority to form a cabinet and hire other experts in overseeing local developments.They collect taxes and levies as well as receive budgetary allocations from national government for their prioritized spendings . It's like a mini-government and not ceremonial at all.

 

[Mwanzi1]

Governors have authority to form a cabinet and hire other experts in overseeing local developments.They collect taxes and levies as well as receive budgetary allocations from national government for their prioritized spendings . It's like a mini-government and not ceremonial at all.

Same as elected mayor in English system which in some places is adopted in commonwealth countries including Tanzania.

Directly elected mayors in England and Wales - Wikipedia

 

[Nkanini]

Sidhani kama unaelewa unachokiongea, hata hao Wazungu wenyewe ni hivyo Meya wa Mji Polisi iko chini yake na ndiyo wanaopanga sera za Polisi kwenye Mji husika, hivyo Wanasiasa kwa mfano wanaweza wakaamua kutuma Polisi eneo fulani au kutokutuma na hii iko ndani ya Mamlaka yao!
Kwa mfano Meya anaweza akaamua eneo xyz ni korofi litumiwe Polisi au la au liongezewe special Police nk siyo Mkuu wa Polisi, Mkuu wa Polisi na yeye anapokea maagizo ktk kwa wakubwa wake ambao kwenye chain of command unaisha kwa Mwanasiasa ndiyo maana kukitokea Mauaji hata Mahakama za Kimataifa hushitaki Wanasiasa na siyo Polisi kwani ndiyo wanaoamua!

Mimi nafikiri hata hii mifumo ya Wazungu sidhani kama mnaielewa vizuri ingawaje mnafikiri mnaielewa isitoshe kwa mfano mfumo wetu hatukuunda sisi uliachwa na Wazungu na hakuna tulichobadilisha!

sorry nimechukua muda kujibu hoja yako,waziri wa polisi yeye ni principal wa maswala ya kisiasa kuhusiana na idara hiyo,polisi rank yao inaishia kwa mkuu wa polisi wa nchi;pili usichanganye polisi wa nchi na polisi waliochini ya metro ,hawa metro police ndio wanawajibika kwa meya na hasa wapo katika kusimamia sharia ndogondogo za jiji au manispaa.but haya ni majadiliano facts zitawale na tuna haki ya kutofautiana.

 

[MENGELENI KWETU]

Kama unakielewa Kingereza soma hapa kinpengee cha katiba yetu, kwa kifupi waziri hana mamlaka ya kuamrisha kamata kamata, ni tofauti sana na ilivyo Tanzania ambapo huwa tunaona Bashite akiamrisha kamata yule, mtie dani huyu, muweke lock up yule pale, mpeleke ndani huyu.


(4) The Cabinet secretary responsible for police services may lawfully give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to any matter of policy for the National Police Service, but no person may give a direction to the Inspector-General with respect to--

(a) the investigation of any particular offence or offences;
(b) the enforcement of the law against any particular person or persons; or
(c) the employment, assignment, promotion, suspension or dismissal of any member of the National Police Service.

Mkuu.. Huyo unaemuelekeza, kwenye kichwa chake ile sehemu inayokaa ubongo, kwake imejaa KINYESI..
Hawezi kuelewa.
Yeye akiona Bashite anakamata wabunge anafikiria kila nchi itakuwa ivyo..
Kiukweli Katiba ya Kenya imeleta ustaarabu fulani kwenye maisha ya raia wake..
Na sio Katiba ya Tanzania ya ovyoo kabisa.