JamiiForums Exclusive: Kiranga and Fellow members English Debate

AshaDii said:

In blue I do agree.... For the simple fact that it is syntactically valid as much as Semantically iffy - A syntactically valid statement no matter strange in one ear, is usually correct.

In red I do agree too... For you have just snatched up a part of Mtazamaji's phrase thus sounds OK and infact correct; Where as it is sytactically and semantically wrong when complete i.e "Happy x-mass and merry new year'" as opposed to "Happy x-mas and a Merry new year"

Click to expand...

As I understand "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year" "Happy Christmas and Merry New Year" "Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year" are all correct grammatically, syntactically and semantically. A little reading of Dickens, or Dickensian/ Victorian english, sprinkled with a bit of persusing Churchillian prose, or even if one would carefully listen to the pronouncements of people like William Hague, that would go a long way to establish this fact.

The only thing that may make some version sound strange compared to others is wide usage and convention, which can be as crucial as being wrong in the sense that greeting one "Happy Morning" instead of "Good Morning" would sound strange even without being wrong simply because the conventional greeting is "Good Morning" and not "Happy Morning".

So again, if some versions sound wrong, it is because of convention, not syntax, semantics or grammar.

Mtazamaji said:

Hahahaahahh AshaDii mi naeleza bana si unaona mi nimekwambia changu cha kuunga unga. Kwangu nilikosea siku moja wa hayo maneno ya Merry na Happy basi wataalam niliokuwa nao wakanicheka.Na mimina nikaubali na nikaomba msamaha kuwa nimekosea lugha

Sasa naona strangly kwa mujibu wa eelewa wa kiranga There is nothing wrong whatsoever with "Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year" but dah merry new year

Anyway nitaenda niombe msamaha wangu back. Its hard kuwa na chango wa maana kwa sisi tulisoma Mr and Mrs Daudi Neema, Baraka and Musa. Tena darasani kuna kitbu kimoja tu.

Ukienda sekondary zile shule za wakulima. Mkali wa umombo the best u can perform ni kuibuka na C.

Click to expand...

Mtazamaji are you saying hata mimi nilie na "c" katika umombo si qualify kuweka mawazo yangu hapa? I think not! More the reason ya kuparticipate ili niweze pata ujuzi from my fellow members.... Hasa ukizingatia hata mimi nimesoma/jifunza kwa hivohivo vitabu vya Mr and Mrs Daudi et al.


Hivo Mtazamaji I urge... Let us learn bana! lol.... "Knowledge is POWER!"

AshaDii said:

Mtazamaji are you saying hata mimi nilie na "c" katika umombo si qualify kuweka mawazo yangu hapa? I think not! More the reason ya kuparticipate ili niweze pata ujuzi from my fellow members.... Hasa ukizingatia hata mimi nimesoma/jifunza kwa hivohivo vitabu vya Mr and Mrs Daudi et al.


Hivo Mtazamaji I urge... Let us learn bana! lol.... "Knowledge is POWER!"

Click to expand...

Sababu ya kwanza ya kutokukuzuia kuchangia hapa hata kama una F, sembuse C ya Kiingereza ni ukweli kwamba "Baraza la Miihani la Taifa" halina upako/ credibility/ integrity wa kukuzuia kwa mujibu wa maksi zao.

Kwa msingi huo hata C au F inaweza kusababishwa na msahihishaji aliyelewa/ aliyekuwa na njaa kwa sababu hajalipwa mshahara on time etc. You will be surprised. Kama bunge la taifa linashindwa kupiga kura ya kuchagua Spika kwa siri, mtihani wa sekondari utategemewaje kuwa wa siri na wa haki kwa kweli?

Ukitoka hapo unaweza kusema hata yule ambaye amepewa C au F ki-haki katika Kiiingereza ndiye anayetakiwa kuchangia zaidi ili kujifunza zaidi.

kazi is there

Naona hii thread haina mwisho.

Mwita25 said:

Naona hii thread haina mwisho.

Click to expand...

Kwa mwendo huu,hii haitaisha kabisa!!Bado watu wanahamu kusikia toka kwako!!

Mwita25 said:

Naona hii thread haina mwisho.

Click to expand...

bila wewe kuhitimisha.......haitatimia.......

Kiranga said:

As I understand "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year" "Happy Christmas and Merry New Year" "Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year" are all correct grammatically, syntactically and semantically. A little reading of Dickens, or Dickensian/ Victorian english, sprinkled with a bit of persusing Churchillian prose, or even if one would carefully listen to the pronouncements of people like William Hague, that would go a long way to establish this fact.

The only thing that may make some version sound strange compared to others is wide usage and convention, which can be as crucial as being wrong in the sense that greeting one "Happy Morning" instead of "Good Morning" would sound strange even without being wrong simply because the conventional greeting is "Good Morning" and not "Happy Morning".

So again, if some versions sound wrong, it is because of convention, not syntax, semantics or grammar.

Click to expand...

From my understanding Dickensian English (Victorian) is an improved version of Shakespearean English; And if we are to observe the present English (especially American let alone the queens) in relation with Victorian English it would clearly be portrayed that is all the way distorted; thou in the linguistics world of language - they would argue it has grown (of coz depending on the school of thot). I have read only one book of Dickens and I was like "Hell No! Oliver Twist will be my only read book of Dickens" Like the way I had to re-read "Romeo and Juliet's original version of Shakespeare" Nayo I just read kushinda a bet with my old Man who said I would not understand a word! From there on I said When it comes to Shakespeare I will be dealing with him via Poems tu! (or quotes....)

The point I am making hapa is Maybe the problem lies to the fact that I am more set on looking at a phrase in spoken terms... Where as you are set on the phrase and the validity of it no matter spoken or written (which I now know is more appropriate). As you have said leaving all the phrases independently they are all syntactically and semantically valid (at-least in written form)


For example:

Spoken

"I am wishing you a Happy x-mas and a merry new year" as opposed to "I am wishing you a Happy X-mas and merry new year" SIJUI, It maybe am wrong but the later does not sound right.

HOWEVER it should be noted that if you just say it alone as in "Merry new year" then to my opinion it seems both syntactically and semantically valid.


The bolded part is noted with appreciation.

Kiranga said:

Sababu ya kwanza ya kutokukuzuia kuchangia hapa hata kama una F, sembuse C ya Kiingereza ni ukweli kwamba "Baraza la Miihani la Taifa" halina upako/ credibility/ integrity wa kukuzuia kwa mujibu wa maksi zao.

Kwa msingi huo hata C au F inaweza kusababishwa na msahihishaji aliyelewa/ aliyekuwa na njaa kwa sababu hajalipwa mshahara on time etc. You will be surprised. Kama bunge la taifa linashindwa kupiga kura ya kuchagua Spika kwa siri, mtihani wa sekondari utategemewaje kuwa wa siri na wa haki kwa kweli?

Ukitoka hapo unaweza kusema hata yule ambaye amepewa C au F ki-haki katika Kiiingereza ndiye anayetakiwa kuchangia zaidi ili kujifunza zaidi.

Click to expand...

Kiranga I do agree with your post kabisa! Lakini hata hivo hapa the major problem is not only baraza la Mtihani na watu wake.... Tatizo ni attitude ya sisi wenyewe Wantanzania.... Nitolee mfano wa hapa Jamvini. In most cases Wanaojua na kweli wakachangia kile wajuacho regardless wrong ama right ni wachache mno ukilinganisha na wale ambao kweli wajua. Hapo hapo kuna wale ambao wanajua na wakikutana na ambao hawajui humuelekeza kwa kejeli (hivo kumaliza kabisa asojua confidence ya kuwakilisha the little anajua). Wale ambao hawajui (or think hawajui) hawataki kujichanganya aoneshe level ya kutojua kwake imeishia wapi ili aweze brush zaidi kwa kujifunza practically either as a result of inferiority complex/woga wa kuonesha level yake kua yaweza kua ndogo OR because kisha ona kua waweza kua attacked.

Ile negative attitude kua anaechangia ndo ajua OR ndo mwenye kihere here OR kua ndio anae jifanya ajua yooote ni chronic disease hapa jamvini na Tanzania at large. Na hio ndio huturudisha nyumba saana Watanzania.... Ile kukosa guts za ku dare no matter right OR wrong. Na nimependa ulivoeleza, alo na C au F ndo hasa anaetakiwa kuchangia zaidi.

Ama kweli waTz ni malimbukeni,mnatambiana kuhusu kufaham lugha za kigeni!!?hivi tangu tz ipate uhuru mmeunda kitu gani,japo hata vijiti vya kuchoko-nolea meno?lol

kadoda11 said:

Ama kweli waTz ni malimbukeni,mnatambiana kuhusu kufaham lugha za kigeni!!?hivi tangu tz ipate uhuru mmeunda kitu gani,japo hata vijiti vya kuchoko-nolea meno?lol

Click to expand...

wewe binafsi umefanya nini?

kadoda11 said:

Ama kweli waTz ni malimbukeni,mnatambiana kuhusu kufaham lugha za kigeni!!?hivi tangu tz ipate uhuru mmeunda kitu gani,japo hata vijiti vya kuchoko-nolea meno?lol

Click to expand...

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"

Wishing you a belated Merry x-mas and Happy New Year....

Watanzania malimbukeni sana.

Radhia Sweety said:

Watanzania malimbukeni sana.

Click to expand...

- Saddening -

AshaDii said:

Kiranga I do agree with your post kabisa! Lakini hata hivo hapa the major problem is not only baraza la Mtihani na watu wake.... Tatizo ni attitude ya sisi wenyewe Wantanzania.... Nitolee mfano wa hapa Jamvini. In most cases Wanaojua na kweli wakachangia kile wajuacho regardless wrong ama right ni wachache mno ukilinganisha na wale ambao kweli wajua. Hapo hapo kuna wale ambao wanajua na wakikutana na ambao hawajui humuelekeza kwa kejeli (hivo kumaliza kabisa asojua confidence ya kuwakilisha the little anajua). Wale ambao hawajui (or think hawajui) hawataki kujichanganya aoneshe level ya kutojua kwake imeishia wapi ili aweze brush zaidi kwa kujifunza practically either as a result of inferiority complex/woga wa kuonesha level yake kua yaweza kua ndogo OR because kisha ona kua waweza kua attacked. Ile negative attitude kua anaechangia ndo ajua OR ndo mwenye kihere here OR kua ndio anae jifanya ajua yooote ni chronic disease hapa jamvini na Tanzania at large. Na hio ndio huturudisha nyumba saana Watanzania.... Ile kukosa guts za ku dare no matter right OR wrong. Na nimependa ulivoeleza, alo na C au F ndo hasa anaetakiwa kuchangia zaidi.

Click to expand...

Yes AshaDii uko right ndio maana hata moja ya commnet yangu mwanzoni mwa haka ka thread niliandika tusiogope kuchapia.

Kadoda 11 said:

Ama kweli waTz ni malimbukeni,mnatambiana kuhusu kufaham lugha za kigeni!!?hivi tangu tz ipate uhuru mmeunda kitu gani,japo hata vijiti vya kuchoko-nolea meno?lol

Click to expand...

Kadoda11 tumefikaje huko tena Mkuu . Navyojua mimi lugha haiundi kitu. Lugha ni nyenzo ya mawasiliano tu. Kama kuunda hata wamakonde wanaunda vinyago bila kutumuia si tu kingerereza bali hawatumii hata kiswahili kwenye uhunzi wao.

Radhia Sweety said:

Watanzania malimbukeni sana.

Click to expand...

Lol . Radhia kwanza malimbukeni wa nini? Na je wewe ni mmoja wao? Na tufanye nini tutoke hapa twende pale

Mtazamaji said:

Yes AshaDii uko right ndio maana hata moja ya commnet yangu mwanzoni mwa haka ka thread niliandika tusiogope kuchapia.

Click to expand...

Mtazamaji I like your part in this.... Hayo niloandika I know wajua na ndo maana umeweza kutufikisha wachangiaji hapa, It is an exceptional talent kuweza balance both sides of te coin at par.... Mie nirudie kusema Thank you for the thread.

AshaDii said:

Mtazamaji I like your part in this.... Hayo niloandika I know wajua na ndo maana umeweza kutufikisha wachangiaji hapa, It is an exceptional talent kuweza balance both sides of te coin at par.... Mie nirudie kusema Thank you for the thread.

Click to expand...

Katazamaji feel greatly honoured by Asha Dii appreciation . I feel like i have received an honorary degree in chit chat.

Mwita25 said:

Wewe uliyeanzisha thread kwa kutumia jina langu ni mpuuzi, mjinga na punguwani. Una mawazo mgando yaliyochanganyika na chembechembe za uwendawazimu. Ni kinara wa wodi ya vichaa ya hospitali ya Mirembe na hustahili kukabidhiwa kutunza hata kijiko kwasababu utakitafuna.

Click to expand...

Key speaker on Village= Mwita25
Key speaker on Town= Kiranga
Speaker = Gaijin
Member of the floor= all chit chatters

Wewe unayetoa maneno machafu mbele ya kadamnasi ndio mwehu kabisa, tena ukiwa kama main speaker.

Lukansola said:

Key speaker on Village= Mwita25
Key speaker on Town= Kiranga
Speaker = Gaijin
Member of the floor= all chit chatters

Wewe unayetoa maneno machafu mbele ya kadamnasi ndio mwehu kabisa, tena ukiwa kama main speaker.

Click to expand...

Msamehe bure kilaza huyo.

Mtazamaji said:

Katazamaji feel greatly honoured by Asha Dii appreciation . I feel like i have received an honorary degree in chit chat.

Click to expand...

Unajua niliuliza swali sijapata jibu.... Hivi "Overestimate" haina neno moja la Kiswahili nje ya kadirio la juu? lol..


Mtazamaji..... Humbled - :humble:-