isotaaaa
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Je, Israel ya sasa ni Taifa teule la Mungu au ni propaganda tu za kanisa?
Je, Israel ya sasa ni Taifa teule la Mungu au ni propaganda tu za kanisa?
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PumziNdefu
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Hajavunja status ya Israel, tafsiri yako ina makosa. Hapo amesema katika Kristo tumekuwa kitu kimoja na tunarithi ahadi za Abraham pamoja nao and not in their exclusion. Ndio maana amesema mmekuwa uzao wa Abraham kwasababu ahadi ziko kwenye uzao wa Abraham, kwahiyo tumekuwa included and not their replacement.
Again conclusion yako ina makosa, hakuna sehemu inayosema Mungu hawatambui. Viongozi wao hawakumkubali lakini wapo wayahudi wengi ambao walimkubali.
The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, “Perceive ye how ye prevail not at all? Behold, the world has gone after him!” John 12:19
Hakuna mstari uliouweka unaosema Mungu amewaacha wayahudi, hiyo mistari inaonyesha kwamba hizo ahadi zimekuwa extended kwa waliomwamini Yesu Kristo.
Hiyo mistari inaonyesha Mungu hatubagui because of who we are in Christ na sio kwamba Mungu amewakataa.
Nimekubaliana na wewe kwamba Yesu ni njia pekee kwenda kwa Mungu ila Mungu bado hajamalizana na Israel kwasababu ahadi zake hazibadiliki na hii ndio point niliyokuwa nikikuonyesha bila mafanikio. Neno la Mungu halipingani. Agano la kale na Jipya havipingani. Hakuna mstari wowote wa agano jipya unaosema Mungu amewakataa ila ni wewe unatafsiri hiyo mistari kimakosa.
This is what the Lord says, He who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar, the Lord Almighty is his name: “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will Israel ever cease being a nation before me.” Jeremiah 31:35 - 36
My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Psalms 89:34
Ahadi za Mungu hazijabadilika.
Mkuu unless uko bias ila hao waefeso, wagiriki na waethioia wote unaowasema walipelikewa injili na wayahudi. Watu wa kwanza kumpokea Yesu na kupatizwa na Roho Mtakatifu siku ya Pentekoste ni wanafunzi wa Yesu na most part of the early church was among themselves. Mpaka Peter alipoambiwa aende kwa Kornelius na Paul kuambiwa kwa gentiles.
And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:15-18
Kwahiyo kama ilivyokuwa katika historia ya Israel, wamekuwa wakiasi lakini Mungu amekuwa akideal nao kulingana na ahadi na maagano yake na Abraham, Isaka na Yakobo. Kwahiyo na wao pia watakuja kwa Yesu kwa kuwa huo ndio mpango wa Mungu.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11: 25 - 29.
Na hata sasa wako Wayahudi ambao Mungu amewatenga kwa ajili yake.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 11:5
And according to Revelation 7 Mungu anawatu wake kutoka katika makabila yote12 ya Israel aliowatenga kwa ajili yake. Na hiyo inakuonyesha hayo makabila pia yapo na hayajafutika.
God has not finished with Israel.
Nimekuambia 1948 was a miracle in fulfilling God promises of bringing them back after many generations almost 1000yrs. In one day a nation was formed again.
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Isaiah 66:8.
And it was in their absence this replacement theology starts.
zitto junior
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Mkuu hakuna neno Paulo kaandika kwa mawazo yake mwenyewe na yeye anathibitisha hilo hapa.
1 Corintho 14:37
37 Mtu akijiona kuwa ni nabii au mtu wa rohoni, na ayatambue hayo ninayowaandikia, ya kwamba ni maagizo ya Bwana.
Na sio Paulo tu hata Yesu hakuna neno aliongea kwa maoni yake bali yote aliyosema aliagizwa na Mungu Baba
Mathayo 14
24 Mtu asiyenipenda, yeye hayashiki maneno yangu; nalo neno mnalolisikia silo langu, ila ni lake Baba aliyenipeleka
Ni vizuri usome maandiko kwa upana wake sio kuchukua kamstari kamoja tu na kujengea hoja...... Hivyo napinga rasmi paulo hakuongea kwa mawazo yake bali kwa maelekezo ya Mungu tu.
zitto junior
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Mkuu PumziNdefu naona hatuelewani kitu labda nilcarify upya.
1. Tunaposema kavunja status ina maana wote wapo sawa sio kwamba kawatupa Israel bali nao wamekuwa sawa na wakristo. Na uzuri condition imeshawekwa hapo kwenye wagalatia na Yohana kuwa ni lazima awe MKRISTO ndio awe mtoto wa Abraham na Mungu. Hivyo waisrael ambao hajawampokea Yesu hawana uzao wowote wa Abraham kiroho hivyo ahadi zote zile hawawezi zipata.
2. Agano la kale na jipya hayagongani bali jipya limekuja kurithi agano la kale ambapo lilivunjwa na mfalme Solomon. Bible is very clear kuwa agano la kale limeshafutwa bible ya kingereza inasema OBSOLETE.... Soma waebrania sura nzima ya 9 inaelezea hili na hivyo kwa sasa njia pekee ni Yesu mwenyewe hakuna cha myahudi wala mzungu.
Waebrania 8:13
13 Kwa kule kusema, Agano jipya, amelifanya lile la kwanza kuwa kuukuu(Obsolete/nullified). Lakini kitu kianzacho kuwa kikuukuu na kuchakaa ki karibu na kutoweka.
3. Kuhusu waisrael kuwa wakristo wa kwanza obvious ni sababu Yesu aliishi Israel na alihubiri Israel ila tunaposema wamemkataa tunaangalia kwa upana wake yaani percentage ngapi walimkubali?? Zaidi ya 95% wameshikilia Judaism toka enzi hizo mpaka leo na hawalitambuia agano jipya wala Yesu ikimaanisha wamemkataa kabisa. Na ndio maana aliwatuma wanafunzi wake waende dunia nzima wakahubiri kitu ambacho agano la kale hakikuwezekana kabisa maana grace ilikuwa kwa wale wa uzao wa Abraham tu alieingia naye agano.
4. Kuhusu hayo makabila 12 ya Israel hiyo ni unabii tu sio kimwili.... Kama unataka tusome hayo makabila 12 kama ya Israel ya kimwili basi nielezee Ufunuo 12 na 13 zinazodai mwanamke atavaa jua na kutembelea mwezi miguuni, nielezee pia mvinyo wa babeli 18 ambao dunia nzima tumekunywa kupitia kikombe kimoja ilihali mimi toka nazaliwa sijawahi kunywa mvinyo na babylon empire ilifutika zamani sana.
Ufunuo haitafsiriwi kimwili kabisa hao 144,000 ni wale kingdom of priest,taifa teule,taifa la mungu ambao zamani walikuwa ni Israel ya kimwili ila agano jipya ni wale ambao wanamfuata Yesu wanakuwa kingdom of priest.
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 Bali ninyi ni mzao mteule, ukuhani wa kifalme, taifa takatifu, watu wa milki ya Mungu, mpate kuzitangaza fadhili zake yeye aliyewaita mtoke gizani mkaingie katika nuru yake ya ajabu;
10 ninyi mliokuwa kwanza si taifa, bali sasa ni taifa la Mungu; mliokuwa hamkupata rehema, bali sasa mmepata rehema.
Hivyo ile ni figurative tribes sio kimwili maana taifa teule kwa mstari huu ni wakristo sio waliomkataa Yesu unless waje kumkiri Yesu huko mbele nao watajiunga na wakristo
Kwa kumalizia tu ningependa niweke kitabu hapa kina page 20 tu ukisome alafu uone kama utapata mtazamo mpya kidogo kuhusu concept ya spiritual israel,shukrani
1. Tunaposema kavunja status ina maana wote wapo sawa sio kwamba kawatupa Israel bali nao wamekuwa sawa na wakristo. Na uzuri condition imeshawekwa hapo kwenye wagalatia na Yohana kuwa ni lazima awe MKRISTO ndio awe mtoto wa Abraham na Mungu. Hivyo waisrael ambao hajawampokea Yesu hawana uzao wowote wa Abraham kiroho hivyo ahadi zote zile hawawezi zipata.
2. Agano la kale na jipya hayagongani bali jipya limekuja kurithi agano la kale ambapo lilivunjwa na mfalme Solomon. Bible is very clear kuwa agano la kale limeshafutwa bible ya kingereza inasema OBSOLETE.... Soma waebrania sura nzima ya 9 inaelezea hili na hivyo kwa sasa njia pekee ni Yesu mwenyewe hakuna cha myahudi wala mzungu.
Waebrania 8:13
13 Kwa kule kusema, Agano jipya, amelifanya lile la kwanza kuwa kuukuu(Obsolete/nullified). Lakini kitu kianzacho kuwa kikuukuu na kuchakaa ki karibu na kutoweka.
3. Kuhusu waisrael kuwa wakristo wa kwanza obvious ni sababu Yesu aliishi Israel na alihubiri Israel ila tunaposema wamemkataa tunaangalia kwa upana wake yaani percentage ngapi walimkubali?? Zaidi ya 95% wameshikilia Judaism toka enzi hizo mpaka leo na hawalitambuia agano jipya wala Yesu ikimaanisha wamemkataa kabisa. Na ndio maana aliwatuma wanafunzi wake waende dunia nzima wakahubiri kitu ambacho agano la kale hakikuwezekana kabisa maana grace ilikuwa kwa wale wa uzao wa Abraham tu alieingia naye agano.
4. Kuhusu hayo makabila 12 ya Israel hiyo ni unabii tu sio kimwili.... Kama unataka tusome hayo makabila 12 kama ya Israel ya kimwili basi nielezee Ufunuo 12 na 13 zinazodai mwanamke atavaa jua na kutembelea mwezi miguuni, nielezee pia mvinyo wa babeli 18 ambao dunia nzima tumekunywa kupitia kikombe kimoja ilihali mimi toka nazaliwa sijawahi kunywa mvinyo na babylon empire ilifutika zamani sana.
Ufunuo haitafsiriwi kimwili kabisa hao 144,000 ni wale kingdom of priest,taifa teule,taifa la mungu ambao zamani walikuwa ni Israel ya kimwili ila agano jipya ni wale ambao wanamfuata Yesu wanakuwa kingdom of priest.
1 Peter 2:9-10
9 Bali ninyi ni mzao mteule, ukuhani wa kifalme, taifa takatifu, watu wa milki ya Mungu, mpate kuzitangaza fadhili zake yeye aliyewaita mtoke gizani mkaingie katika nuru yake ya ajabu;
10 ninyi mliokuwa kwanza si taifa, bali sasa ni taifa la Mungu; mliokuwa hamkupata rehema, bali sasa mmepata rehema.
Hivyo ile ni figurative tribes sio kimwili maana taifa teule kwa mstari huu ni wakristo sio waliomkataa Yesu unless waje kumkiri Yesu huko mbele nao watajiunga na wakristo
Kwa kumalizia tu ningependa niweke kitabu hapa kina page 20 tu ukisome alafu uone kama utapata mtazamo mpya kidogo kuhusu concept ya spiritual israel,shukrani
MTAZAMO
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Mkuu kiroho hata sisi wa mataifa tunakuwa Taifa la Mungu pale tunapobatizwa lakini hilo halibadili nafasi ya Israel kama taifa lililobeba damu ya Kristo kupitia bikira Maria, hilo pekee linahitaji heshima. Hivyo Israel itabakia kuwa lango Mungu alilotumia kutufikia.
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PumziNdefu
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- Dec 14, 2018
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Mkuu usichanganye mambo, condition ya kuwa watoto wa Mungu does not do away God's promise and commitment to Israel. Hiyo barua Paulo aliwaandikia Wagalatia theme nzima ya barua ni kwamba hawaitaji tohara kurithi baraka za uzao wa Abraham kama walivyokuwa wakidangaywa.
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed My voice. Genesis 22:18
Huu ndio mstari Paul aliutumia kwenye hiyo barua kwa Wagalatia, kuwafundisha kwamba kutokana na ahadi ya Mungu, kupitia kwa Yesu na sisi tutabarikiwa. Paul alikuwa anawafundisha maandiko yanavyosema na sio kuweka condition. That's what God had said. Kupitia kwa Yesu na sisi pia tutabarikiwa kama wao na sio badala yao.
Na kwa ufupi hizi baraka Mungu alizitamka kwa Abraham, Issack na Yakobo kabla ya Agano la Musa. Na ndio hivyo Mungu amekuwa akideal na Israel from the begining not based on their performance. Na hata ukisoma historia yao hasa kitabu cha Judges utaona walikuwa wakiasi mara kwa mara lakini pia kila wakati Mungu alikuwa akiinua mtu wakuwa rudisha kwake.
Again unachoshindwa kuelewa ni kwamba hilo Agano Jipya linafundisha Agano la Kale. Hiyo waebrania inafundisha Jeremiah 31:
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:31-33
Kwahiyo anaposema imekuwa obselete alikuwa akiongelea interms of justification and animal sucrifice, na hiyo ndio theme ya waebrania 8-10. Kwamba Yesu alifanyika kafara once and for all.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Hebrews 10:14-17
The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
Yesu mwenyewe kwenye mafundisho yake ali-quote Deutronomy mara nyingi sana.
Kwa hiyo uwezi kusema what God promised in the past imekuwa obsolete, that's wrong interpretation of the Word of God.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
Is not about obvious, it all start with Israel. God promised of Messiah was through Abraham seed, Israel. And first people who believe were Israelis. The first christians were Jews. Jesus was a Jew. Huwezi kusema it was only 5% who belives in Him kwani hata maandiko yameonyesha hadi viongozi wa dini waliomkataa walianza kuogopa watu wengi walikuwa wakimfuata:
The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, “Perceive ye how ye prevail not at all? Behold, the world has gone after him!” John 12:19
Na bado pamoja na hiyo low % hakuna mstari unaosema Mungu amewakataa huku ni kuongeza maneno kwenye neno la Mungu ambayo hayapo. Biblia inasema ahadi ya Mungu kwa Abraham ilikuwa by promise and this is before Moses and the law:
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Galatians 3:18
Na Mungu sio mwanadamu adanganye:
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Numbers 23:19
Na hawakutumwa kuenda dunia nzima kwasababu walimkataa bali kwasababu huo ndio ulikuwa mpango wa Mungu tokea mwanzo:
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isaiah 49:6
Na Mungu kuwarudisha katika nchi aliyowaahidia baba zao ni moja ya mpango wa Mungu wa kuwaokoa. Watakuja kumkiri Yesu kama ndio Masiah wao as a nation.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11: 25 - 29.
Mkuu mimi nalichukua neno la Mungu literally, sasa kama wewe unalichukulia figurative sijui kiroho hapo ndio matatizo yanapotokea. Kile tusichokielewa ni wajibu wetu kumuomba Mungu atufungue macho ili tusiwe kama wale wanao ona lakini hawaoni na kuongeza kile ambacho hakipo. Wana Israel wenyewe kwa kushindwa kuyaelewa maandiko ndiko kuliko pelekea wakamuua Yesu japokuwa yote yalikuwa yameshatabiriwa kwenye maandiko:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Corinthians 2:7-8
Hakuna aneyejua kila kitu hata Paul aliyeandika majority ya vitabu vya agano jipya alisema:
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13:12
Kwahiyo point yangu inabakia pale pale kwamba, hakuna mstari unaosema Wakristo wamechukua nafasi ya taifa la Israel na hakuna mstari unaosema Mungu amewakataa ni vile wewe unavyolitafsiri neno la Mungu. Mungu angekuwa amewaacha kusingekuwa na taifa la Israel today.
zitto junior
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Mkuu PumziNdefu nimesoma hoja yako ndefu ila kuna mahala umekiri na naona hapo ndio maana hatuelewani.... Umesema bible ni literal sio figurative
Zaburi 78:2
2 Na nifunue kinywa changu kwa mithali,Niyatamke mafumbo ya kale.
Na Yesu akipigia akatimiza huu unabii
Mathayo 13:34
34 Hayo yote Yesu aliwaambia makutano kwa mifano (parables); wala pasipo mfano hakuwaambia neno;
35 ili litimie neno lililonenwa na nabii, akisema,Nitafumbua kinywa changu kwa mifano,Nitayatamka yaliyositirika tangu awali
Hivyo Biblia hasa unabii ni figirative ndio maana nikasema kma ni literal makabila basi nieleze kivipi kuna mwanamke anayeweza kulivaa jua na kutembelea mwezi kma kiatu hapa duniani afu bado akapigwa mimba.....Na kujificha msituni?? Like seriously
2. Kuhusu hili taifa la Israel 1948 hakuna connection yeyote na Mungu..... Sababu kwanza makabila yote 12 hayapo pale wapo makabila hayazidi mawili ya ufalme wa Judah makabila mengine 10 kimsingi yameshatoweka kama Mungu kawaweka pale wengine wakwapi??
Hilo taifa limeanzishwa kwa hila na ulaghai mfano UN ili partition 55:45 Ratio ila siku ya uhuru israel wakajisevia ardhi ikawa almost 65:35 kwahiyo ukimhusisha Mungu hapo ni kusema Mungu ndio anatumia ujanja ujanja ili awape ardhi watu wake??
Israel mara zote ilikuwa inarudishwa na manabii je nabii gani kawarudisha hyo 1948 zaidi ya Freemasons na secret society zingine ambazo hata huyo Mungu wa Israel hazimtambui kabisa. Je taifa la Mungu linaweza anzishwa na wapinga Mungu??
3.kuhusu hoja ya Je Israel imeachwa au bado ni teule sitairudia upya ndio maana nimeweka kitabu hapo ningependa ukisome chote ni kifupi sana hakichoshi naamini utaelewa nachojaribu kusema kwa upana zaidi kuliko debate kwa hoja zilezile back and forth.
Karibu
Zaburi 78:2
2 Na nifunue kinywa changu kwa mithali,Niyatamke mafumbo ya kale.
Na Yesu akipigia akatimiza huu unabii
Mathayo 13:34
34 Hayo yote Yesu aliwaambia makutano kwa mifano (parables); wala pasipo mfano hakuwaambia neno;
35 ili litimie neno lililonenwa na nabii, akisema,Nitafumbua kinywa changu kwa mifano,Nitayatamka yaliyositirika tangu awali
Hivyo Biblia hasa unabii ni figirative ndio maana nikasema kma ni literal makabila basi nieleze kivipi kuna mwanamke anayeweza kulivaa jua na kutembelea mwezi kma kiatu hapa duniani afu bado akapigwa mimba.....Na kujificha msituni?? Like seriously
2. Kuhusu hili taifa la Israel 1948 hakuna connection yeyote na Mungu..... Sababu kwanza makabila yote 12 hayapo pale wapo makabila hayazidi mawili ya ufalme wa Judah makabila mengine 10 kimsingi yameshatoweka kama Mungu kawaweka pale wengine wakwapi??
Hilo taifa limeanzishwa kwa hila na ulaghai mfano UN ili partition 55:45 Ratio ila siku ya uhuru israel wakajisevia ardhi ikawa almost 65:35 kwahiyo ukimhusisha Mungu hapo ni kusema Mungu ndio anatumia ujanja ujanja ili awape ardhi watu wake??
Israel mara zote ilikuwa inarudishwa na manabii je nabii gani kawarudisha hyo 1948 zaidi ya Freemasons na secret society zingine ambazo hata huyo Mungu wa Israel hazimtambui kabisa. Je taifa la Mungu linaweza anzishwa na wapinga Mungu??
3.kuhusu hoja ya Je Israel imeachwa au bado ni teule sitairudia upya ndio maana nimeweka kitabu hapo ningependa ukisome chote ni kifupi sana hakichoshi naamini utaelewa nachojaribu kusema kwa upana zaidi kuliko debate kwa hoja zilezile back and forth.
Karibu
Safari_ni_Safari
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zitto junior
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Ukitaka tujifunze ni vizuri ukipinga kitu uje na mbadala yaani haina uhusiano na kanisa je ina uhusiano na nni?? Je israel ni taifa teule bado au ni wakristo ndio teule n.k
Utakuwa umetusaidia sana kuliko kutuacha kwenye sintofahamu
mbalaka
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shungurui
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Hili swali lako linanimbusha kipindi kile cha mjadala wa kuchinja, ndugu zetu walipo ishiwa hoja wakajidefend kwa kusema kwamba. "wakristo wa sasa sio wale wazamani".
Sasa wewe unavyokuja na swali kama hili ni kama vile tafsri ya wana wa Israel imebadilika katika kipindi hiki, now we have maana nyingine tofauti na ile ya mwanzo ambalo jina alilopewa Jacob, kwa hiyo kwa hiyo Israel na kizazi chake ndio kinaitwa taifa la israel.
Sasa unapozungumzia Israel unamaanisha watu na eneo lao, uzuri eneo lao lipo linafaamika mpaka sasa, japo hilo eneo linakaliwa na watu zaidi ya wana Israel na hili halijaanza leo wala jana, maana hilo eneo lilikuwa linakaliwa na wakaanani na wengineo toka kipindi cha Joshua wakati wanatoka utumwani, ila kwa shart kwa hao wenyeji wawaondoe taratibu.
Kwa hiyo spiritually au kidini wana wa Israel watabakia kuwa ni Israel (Jacob) mwenyewe na uzao wake, na si zaidi ya hapo, kwa hiyo kwa wakristo, hawa ndio wanaunda taifa la Israel na si wengine na huo ndio mtazamo wetu, na sio anybody ambaye yuko pale, maana naamini walishindwa kuwatoa wote wenyeji wa pale.
Ukitazama Kisiasa hoja yako iko sawa, Israel kwa sasa haimanishi only kile kizazi cha Jacob, maana sasa hivi utawajuaje sana sana utafanya mambo ya kukisia tu, na kama kuna mtu wanasema wao wanajiita na wanauhakika kuwa wao ndio uzao wa Jacob basi vibaya wakijifariji.
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Sasa wewe unavyokuja na swali kama hili ni kama vile tafsri ya wana wa Israel imebadilika katika kipindi hiki, now we have maana nyingine tofauti na ile ya mwanzo ambalo jina alilopewa Jacob, kwa hiyo kwa hiyo Israel na kizazi chake ndio kinaitwa taifa la israel.
Sasa unapozungumzia Israel unamaanisha watu na eneo lao, uzuri eneo lao lipo linafaamika mpaka sasa, japo hilo eneo linakaliwa na watu zaidi ya wana Israel na hili halijaanza leo wala jana, maana hilo eneo lilikuwa linakaliwa na wakaanani na wengineo toka kipindi cha Joshua wakati wanatoka utumwani, ila kwa shart kwa hao wenyeji wawaondoe taratibu.
Kwa hiyo spiritually au kidini wana wa Israel watabakia kuwa ni Israel (Jacob) mwenyewe na uzao wake, na si zaidi ya hapo, kwa hiyo kwa wakristo, hawa ndio wanaunda taifa la Israel na si wengine na huo ndio mtazamo wetu, na sio anybody ambaye yuko pale, maana naamini walishindwa kuwatoa wote wenyeji wa pale.
Ukitazama Kisiasa hoja yako iko sawa, Israel kwa sasa haimanishi only kile kizazi cha Jacob, maana sasa hivi utawajuaje sana sana utafanya mambo ya kukisia tu, na kama kuna mtu wanasema wao wanajiita na wanauhakika kuwa wao ndio uzao wa Jacob basi vibaya wakijifariji.
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PumziNdefu
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Kuna mafumbo na literal na most part ni literal with only a few exceptions. To take most part of it as figurative is one of the excuse people have to define the bible to fit their narratives. Kwahiyo uwezi kuchuku sehemu moja na ku-conclude kitabu chote cha ufunuo ni figurative.
Hizi hoja zako hazina msingi kwenye Biblia. Ni biased theories ambazo zime-based on wrong interpretation of the Bible. Kusema makabila yamefutika na kurudi kwao hakuna connection na Mungu ni either hujasoma Biblia vizuri au as I said before ni biased and based on wrong interpretation of the Bible kwasababu huwezi kudefend it from Biblical point of view. Otherwise Biblia iko wazi kwenye hii issue:
"I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the ISLES afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock". Jeremiah 31:9-10
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isaiah 11:11-12
Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God. Amos 9:8-9,15
Hakuna wakati katika historia ya taifa la Israel ambapo walitawanywa sehemu mbali mbali duniani kabla ya 70 AD. And it was the length of time, almost 1000 years, that led most scholars into doubting most of these verses which led to replacement theology. Kwahiyo kusema makabila yamefutika au sijui ulaghai ni kupingana na ahadi za Mungu za kuwatawanya na kuwarudisha.
Kama nilivyosema hoja zako ni theories na mimi hoja zangu ziko kwenye Biblia ambayo ndio ina-form my understanding on these issues. Hivyo basi hiyo mistari hapo juu inathibitisha ni Mungu ndiye aliyewaondoa kama sehemu ya adhabu na ni yeye ndio aliyewarudisha kama alivyoahidi.
Hii hoja yako haina support ya Biblia na mimi kusoma kitabu ambacho hakina biblical evidence ni non-starter into changing my views on this. Kama haipo kwenye Biblia, I don't need it. Kama hicho kitabu kina mistari ya ku-support hii hoja yako ungeiweka hapa. Mistari uliyoitumia before nimekuonyesha ime-based on wrong interpretation of the Bible. Tukisema tuende kwenye vitabu, kuna vitabu vingi pia vinavyo support my understanding of the issue, cha msing ni wewe ujiridhishe with an open mind kama kuna ukweli na uweze kuzitetea hizo hoja.
Ningependa kumalizia na hii mistari based on this issue:
But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me. Isaiah 49:14-16
But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. Isaiah 45:17
Hapa kazi kwelikweli;Mimi kweli ni Mlutheri wa kuzaliwa na kuishi mpk sasa japo suala la ukristo ni pana sana kiongozi mfano utaratibu wa kunena kwa lugha zamani hatukuwa nao but sasa watu wananena kwa lugha na kulia ktk kipindi cha kusifu (japo mimi sijajaliwa kunena wala kulia sijui nakwama wapi? )
Jambo jingine ambalo lilinishingaza;kuna mzee wa kanisa alipata bahati ya kutembelea Israel and akaja na kikopo cha udongo kutoka Israel na kutoa ushuhuda kwa kanisa na mchunguji wetu akapokea udongo huo (eti udongo mtakatifu)km kumbukumbu ya kanisa! !!!
Hii ni sawa kweli?
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Jambo jingine ambalo lilinishingaza;kuna mzee wa kanisa alipata bahati ya kutembelea Israel and akaja na kikopo cha udongo kutoka Israel na kutoa ushuhuda kwa kanisa na mchunguji wetu akapokea udongo huo (eti udongo mtakatifu)km kumbukumbu ya kanisa! !!!
Hii ni sawa kweli?
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Safari_ni_Safari
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Israel ya leo ni taifa la kiutawala tu na sio taifa la Mungu. Kule wapo mpaka mashoga na taifa linawatambua sasa unawezaje kulihusisha taifa kama hilo na Kanisa? Pia inakubidi uelewe kuwa Wakristo ni minority katika taifa hili. Ni wachache kuliko hata Wislamu!
zitto junior
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- Oct 7, 2013
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Mkuu PumziNdefu na ww uache kuwa biased..... Hicho kitabu kimeandikwa na mwanatheologia na kime base kwenye Bible mwanzo mwisho so ni vizuri ukisome uongeze kitu kipya kung'ang'ania jambo bila kutaka kujifunza sio faida kwenye mjadala.
2. Mie toka original thread nimetoa hoja from the bible ndio maana toka mwanzo nimekuomba uniwekee mstari kutoka agano jipya unaosema unaweza kwenda mbinguni bila kumpokea Yesu mpaka sasa hujanipa nausubiri. Au mstari unaosema waisrael bado ni taifa teule.
1 petro 2:9
9 Bali ninyi ni mzao mteule, ukuhani wa kifalme, taifa takatifu, watu wa milki ya Mungu, mpate kuzitangaza fadhili zake yeye aliyewaita mtoke gizani mkaingie katika nuru yake ya ajabu;
Sasa naomba mstari wayahudi wakiitwa ni taifa teule sijui ufalme wa kikuhani kwenye agano jipya??
3. Unasema hoja kupinga taifa dhalimu la Israel ni porojo sio Biblia? Na hapa ndio shida kubwa kwa wakristo inakuja yaani kwakuwa Bible ilitabiri iko siku wayahudi watarudi kwao basi hata mimi nikiamka tu asbuhi nikasema Israel mwende pale mashariki ya kati basi nakuwa nimetimiza unabii?? Like seriously?? Mtasema nini leo hii Israel ikija kung'olewa pale na Russia or Iran?? Hamuoni mnataka kutafsiri maandiko kwa kuongozwa na upepo wa kisiasa?? Je ni wakati gani unajua kama unabii umetimia au lah??
4. Makabila kupotea sio Mimi niliyesema bali hata bible wafalme 17 inaeleza chanzo. Hata kwenye Biblia yale makabila 10 yalichangamana na gentiles ndio mji mkuu wao ulikuwa samaria. Hawa walitengwa na waisrael waliojiona pure kabisa yaani YUDA. Sasa hata kama hayo makabila 10 yakipatikana bado haiwezi badilisha kitu maana walishachangamana so sio tena waisrael pure bali mixed race na caucasians,semites kama unavyoona Ashkenazi jews walivyo.
5. Pia umesema before AD 70 hakuna wayahudi waliotawanyika. Hii sio kweli maana kingdom of Israel 722 BC walitekwa na kuwa deported kwenda Assyria soma 2 Wafalme 17:6 ambapo wengi walichangamana na utaifa wao kupotea so they can never be Israelites again hta kma wakirudi that's why walitengwa huko samaria na wayahudi wenzao.
6. Unasema Bible ni lateral.... Mimi nimetoa mstari unabii ukitolewa kuwa Yesu ataongea kwa mafumbo na tunajua wote kitabu cha ufunuo kimeandikwa na Yohana kwa kuelekezwa na Yesu sasa nitafutie mstari unaosema biblia ni lateral. Nimeuliza pia je ni wakati gani utajua bible ni lateral au figurative ukisoma kwa kuwa selective kama wewe. Mfano ufunuo ukiona Joka sijui Pembe 7 na vichwa 10 utasema ni figurative ila ukiona makabila 12 yametajwa basi ni lateral?? Nani anasema hivo?? Ina maana waisrael watakuwa 144,000 pekee tena elfu 12 tu kila kabila hawazidi hawaongezeki?? What's this?? Kama itakuwa hivo basi niambie na hiki je kitatokea
Jeremia 51:25
25 Tazama, mimi ni juu yako, Ee mlima uharibuo, asema BWANA; wewe uiharibuye dunia nzima; nami nitaunyosha mkono wangu juu yako, na kukufingirisha chini toka majabalini; nami nitakufanya kuwa mlima ulioteketezwa.
Naomna unisaidie ni mlima gani huo unaoweza kuongea hadi umeharibu dunia nzima..... Na Mungu ameahidi kuuhukumu kwa kuuteketeza kwa moto. Hata zaburi inasema Mito inaimba na milima inacheza mziki sasa tukienda lateral unaweza nisaidia ni mlima gani inaongelewa hapa in relation to Isaya 2:3.
Shukrani
2. Mie toka original thread nimetoa hoja from the bible ndio maana toka mwanzo nimekuomba uniwekee mstari kutoka agano jipya unaosema unaweza kwenda mbinguni bila kumpokea Yesu mpaka sasa hujanipa nausubiri. Au mstari unaosema waisrael bado ni taifa teule.
1 petro 2:9
9 Bali ninyi ni mzao mteule, ukuhani wa kifalme, taifa takatifu, watu wa milki ya Mungu, mpate kuzitangaza fadhili zake yeye aliyewaita mtoke gizani mkaingie katika nuru yake ya ajabu;
Sasa naomba mstari wayahudi wakiitwa ni taifa teule sijui ufalme wa kikuhani kwenye agano jipya??
3. Unasema hoja kupinga taifa dhalimu la Israel ni porojo sio Biblia? Na hapa ndio shida kubwa kwa wakristo inakuja yaani kwakuwa Bible ilitabiri iko siku wayahudi watarudi kwao basi hata mimi nikiamka tu asbuhi nikasema Israel mwende pale mashariki ya kati basi nakuwa nimetimiza unabii?? Like seriously?? Mtasema nini leo hii Israel ikija kung'olewa pale na Russia or Iran?? Hamuoni mnataka kutafsiri maandiko kwa kuongozwa na upepo wa kisiasa?? Je ni wakati gani unajua kama unabii umetimia au lah??
4. Makabila kupotea sio Mimi niliyesema bali hata bible wafalme 17 inaeleza chanzo. Hata kwenye Biblia yale makabila 10 yalichangamana na gentiles ndio mji mkuu wao ulikuwa samaria. Hawa walitengwa na waisrael waliojiona pure kabisa yaani YUDA. Sasa hata kama hayo makabila 10 yakipatikana bado haiwezi badilisha kitu maana walishachangamana so sio tena waisrael pure bali mixed race na caucasians,semites kama unavyoona Ashkenazi jews walivyo.
5. Pia umesema before AD 70 hakuna wayahudi waliotawanyika. Hii sio kweli maana kingdom of Israel 722 BC walitekwa na kuwa deported kwenda Assyria soma 2 Wafalme 17:6 ambapo wengi walichangamana na utaifa wao kupotea so they can never be Israelites again hta kma wakirudi that's why walitengwa huko samaria na wayahudi wenzao.
6. Unasema Bible ni lateral.... Mimi nimetoa mstari unabii ukitolewa kuwa Yesu ataongea kwa mafumbo na tunajua wote kitabu cha ufunuo kimeandikwa na Yohana kwa kuelekezwa na Yesu sasa nitafutie mstari unaosema biblia ni lateral. Nimeuliza pia je ni wakati gani utajua bible ni lateral au figurative ukisoma kwa kuwa selective kama wewe. Mfano ufunuo ukiona Joka sijui Pembe 7 na vichwa 10 utasema ni figurative ila ukiona makabila 12 yametajwa basi ni lateral?? Nani anasema hivo?? Ina maana waisrael watakuwa 144,000 pekee tena elfu 12 tu kila kabila hawazidi hawaongezeki?? What's this?? Kama itakuwa hivo basi niambie na hiki je kitatokea
Jeremia 51:25
25 Tazama, mimi ni juu yako, Ee mlima uharibuo, asema BWANA; wewe uiharibuye dunia nzima; nami nitaunyosha mkono wangu juu yako, na kukufingirisha chini toka majabalini; nami nitakufanya kuwa mlima ulioteketezwa.
Naomna unisaidie ni mlima gani huo unaoweza kuongea hadi umeharibu dunia nzima..... Na Mungu ameahidi kuuhukumu kwa kuuteketeza kwa moto. Hata zaburi inasema Mito inaimba na milima inacheza mziki sasa tukienda lateral unaweza nisaidia ni mlima gani inaongelewa hapa in relation to Isaya 2:3.
Shukrani
zitto junior
JF-Expert Member
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- #217
Ni kweli Israel sio taifa la Mungu ila hoja yangu kusema Israel ya leo ni kanisa simaanishi Israel as in kile kipande cha ardhi pale Tel Aviv bali kiroho zaidi.
Israel kama jina maana yake MSHINDI so kibiblia taifa teule mwanzoni ilikuwa Israel ila baada ya kumkataa messiah Mungu akageukia mataifa mengine na wote waliomfuata Yesu wakaitwa taifa teule 1 peter 2:9 na sio Israel tena.
Na hio ndio hoja yangu
Safari_ni_Safari
JF-Expert Member
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zitto junior
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Hao wachungaji wanakosea ile ardhi kama ardhi haina utakatifu wowote ule maana Mungu hukaa ndani ya watu sio VITU Soma 1 Cor 3:9,16. Hivyo kama Mungu akikuacha hata huo mchanga hauna faida yeyote ule ingekuwa hivyo basi wasingefurumushwa kutoka nchi yao na warumi.
Kikubwa hapa ni washirika msome maandiko ili kupunguza upotoshaji makanisani..... Ilitakiwa umuulize mchungaji wako kama Israel ndio pekee taifa teule kivipi Mtume Petro anawaambia wakristo wamataifa kuwa wao ndio taifa teule na takatifu 1 peter 2:9.
Shukrani
