JK kapotoshwa kuhusu tarehe aliyokuja Nelson Mandela mwaka 1962??

[andrewk]

waamndaaji watoto wao, badala ya kuwapa wazee wanaojua historia ya dunia.....AIBU SANA

Tukiwa tunaendelea kuangalia funeral rites za Nelson Mandela, mliosikiliza hotuba ya JK ni kwamba kaeleza umati kwamba Mandela alifika Tanganyika kwa mara ya kwanza January 1962. Kwamba safari hiyo alikuja kisiri akipitia Mbeya na kuingia Tanganyika. Kisha akapewa passport ya Tanzania kusafiria.

Hapa ndipo tunaposema viongoziwetu hawapekui vitabu au documents au hata kukumbuka tu. Ukweli ni kwamba histroia haisemi hivyo. Historia inasema kwamba January 1962 ulikuwa ni mweiz mmoja tu tangu Tangayika ijitawale ikiwa na Prime Minister Nyerere. Tukio kuu la kihistoria ni kwamba Huo mwezi karibi wiki mbili zilitawaliwa na NEC ya TANU ambayo ilipomalizika Nyerere akajiuzulu u-Prime Minister na akamuachia Rashid Kawawa.

Gavana-General Richard Turnbull asingeweza kutoa passport Nelson Mandela kirahisi.

Ukweli kuhusu ujio wa Mandela ni kwamba alikuja hapa December 1962, yaani mwaka huohuo, na akawepo kushuhudia Tanganyika ikipata status ya Republic. Hapo ndipo angeweza kupata passport ya Tanganyika na ndicho kilichotokea.

Sikuweza kuamini JK alipokuwa anasoma zile tarehe mbele ya dunia nzima, kwa sababu mtu aliyechimubka historia ya Mandela kokote ilikoandikwa anajua wazi kwamba Mandela alikuja hapa December 1962.

Na hata Mandela kwenye kitabu chake alichoandika kiitwacho A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345: {..we arrived in Dar Es Salaam the next day and I met Julius Nyerere, the newly independent country's firss President..}

Hivyo, wakati ule asingemkuta Nyerere akiwa President, na wakati pekee alipokuwa President ni kuanzia December 09, 1962.

Tuwe tunasoma kabla ya kwenda public.

 

[kisugujira]

Vitu vingine vinatufanya tuonekane mazuzu, kwani rais huwa haipitii kwanza hotuba kabla ya kuisoma hadharani? Sasa washauri wake kazi zao ni nini?

Mara nyingi hotuba ikishaandaliwa ni lazima ipitiwe ili iweze kurekebishwa kama imekosewa na kuongeza kile kilichosahaulika! Lakini pia ujio wa Mandela hapa nchini ulikuwa ni wa siri na umekuja kufahamika kwa wengi baada ya kutoka gerezani na kuandika kitabu.

 

[sikajiji]

Sa wewe unataka kutueleza nini? Mleta mada amekupa facts za kumfanya Mandela apate Pass ya Tanganyika na ukweli ni kwamba hasingeweza kuipata January 1962 kama alivyosoma JK. PERIOD

Soma nilichoeleza

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

Mkuu,
Mwanzilishi wa thread hii amekosea; Mandela alifika TZ kupitia Mbeya, January 1962. Alikuwa anaenda kwenye mkutano, Ethiopia, ambao ulikuwa unafanyika February 1962.

Asante Mtanzania kwa kuweka rekodi sawa!. Mwandishi alikurupuka. no research no right to speak

 

[Nikupateje]

Kitabu cha Mandela nilichokinukuu ni kile alichokiandika mwenyewe (auto-biograph). Narudia tena kama hamkusoma my original post kitabu chenyewe ni hiki {Long Walk To Freedom, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345}.

Kumbuka kwamba unaponibishia basi hunibishii mimi bali unambishia na kusmema kwamba Mandela alikuwa muongo alidanganya ulimwengu kwenye ukurasa huu kuhusu ziara hii!

Na nyinyi someni ukurasa huo kabla ya kumtetea JK aliyekosea. Lakini mnapomtetea basi leteni source za mnayotetea kama nilivyofanya mimi. Mimi source yangu ni kauli ya Mandela mwenyewe, kweny ekitabu hicho kwenye ukurasa huo. Je, mnaobisha na washabiki wenu source yenu ni nini zaidi ya kututajia tarehe tu.


Cc: Mtanzania, Gamba la Nyoka, Kisugujira, Tusichoke, Sikajiji

 

[Mtanzania]

Mkuu,
Akili ya kuambiwa, changanya na ya kwako. Sio kwasababu mmoja kaandika hivyo basi tayari unaanza kuamini ni ukweli.

Mwanzililishi wa thread hii amekosea. Ni kweli Mandela alipita TZ January ya 1962. Alikuwa anaenda Ethiopia kwenye mkutano uliokuwa unafanyika mwezi wa pili mwaka 1962.

Disemba ambayo mwandishi anaisema, Mandela alikuwa tayari amesharuridi SA.

kwenye hili walioandika hotuba ya JK wamepatia na hawajakosea kitu.

Vitu vingine vinatufanya tuonekane mazuzu, kwani rais huwa haipitii kwanza hotuba kabla ya kuisoma hadharani? Sasa washauri wake kazi zao ni nini?

 

[Mtanzania]

Mkuu Nikupateje,
Ukikosea jambo unasema nimekosea na ndio uungwana.

Mandela alikuwa anaenda kwenye mkutano wa Pan-African Freedom Movement for East, Central and Southern Africa (PAFMECSA) ambao ulikuwa unafanyika Addis Ababa, Ethiopia mwezi wa pili, 1962. Hiyo disemba yako mzee Madiba alisharudi SA.

Argument yako ina make sense logically lakini haiko sahihi. Mandela alipewa passport ya TZ mwezi January 1962.

In fact Mandela alikamatwa SA tarehe 5 August 1962. kwahiyo hiyo Disemba unayoisema, mzee Madiba alikuwa ndani.

Kitabu cha Mandela nilichokinukuu ni kile alichokiandika mwenyewe (auto-biograph). Mnaobisha nyinyi ndiyo leteni source zenu.

Narudia tena kama hamkusoma my original post kitabu chenyewe ni hiki { {Long Walk To Freedom, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345}.

Hivyo, nimenukuu alichosema Nelson Mandela mwenyewe. Na nyinyi someni kabla ya kumtetea aliyekosea. Lakini leteni source za mnayotetea kama nilivyofanya mimi.

 

[Balantanda]

Kitabu cha Mandela nilichokinukuu ni kile alichokiandika mwenyewe (auto-biograph). Mnaobisha nyinyi ndiyo leteni source zenu.

Narudia tena kama hamkusoma my original post kitabu chenyewe ni hiki { {Long Walk To Freedom, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345}.

Hivyo, nimenukuu alichosema Nelson Mandela mwenyewe. Na nyinyi someni kabla ya kumtetea aliyekosea. Lakini leteni source za mnayotetea kama nilivyofanya mimi.

Mkuu wangu, Akili za kuambiwa si vibaya ukachanganya na za kwako.....

Mbona ukweli uko dhahiri kwamba Nelson Mandela aliingia Tanzania January, 1962 kupitia Mbeya akitokea Lusaka....Na lengo la safari yake lilikuwa ni kwenda Ethiopia kuhudhuria mkutano uliofanyika Februari, 1962....

Inawezekana kweli kwenye Kitabu chake aliandika alikutana na Rais wa kwanza wa Tanzania J.K Nyerere badala ya kuandika Waziri Mkuu wa kwanza wa Tanzania kimakosa....Na wewe badala ya kudhani Mandela amekosea kwenye Autobiography yake moja kwa moja unadhani Rais Kikwete amekosea na unamtwisha tuhuma za kudangaya na kudai amepotoshwa.......

Jaribu kuchanganya akili za kwenye 'A long walk to Freedom' na za kwako, utapata jibu zuri tu...

 

[mkada]

Tukiwa tunaendelea kuangalia funeral rites za Nelson Mandela, mliosikiliza hotuba ya JK ni kwamba kaeleza umati kwamba Mandela alifika Tanganyika kwa mara ya kwanza January 1962. Kwamba safari hiyo alikuja kisiri akipitia Mbeya na kuingia Tanganyika. Kisha akapewa passport ya Tanzania kusafiria.

Hapa ndipo tunaposema viongoziwetu hawapekui vitabu au documents au hata kukumbuka tu. Ukweli ni kwamba histroia haisemi hivyo. Historia inasema kwamba January 1962 ulikuwa ni mweiz mmoja tu tangu Tangayika ijitawale ikiwa na Prime Minister Nyerere. Tukio kuu la kihistoria ni kwamba Huo mwezi karibi wiki mbili zilitawaliwa na NEC ya TANU ambayo ilipomalizika Nyerere akajiuzulu u-Prime Minister na akamuachia Rashid Kawawa.

Gavana-General Richard Turnbull asingeweza kutoa passport Nelson Mandela kirahisi.

Ukweli kuhusu ujio wa Mandela ni kwamba alikuja hapa December 1962, yaani mwaka huohuo, na akawepo kushuhudia Tanganyika ikipata status ya Republic. Hapo ndipo angeweza kupata passport ya Tanganyika na ndicho kilichotokea.

Sikuweza kuamini JK alipokuwa anasoma zile tarehe mbele ya dunia nzima, kwa sababu mtu aliyechimubka historia ya Mandela kokote ilikoandikwa anajua wazi kwamba Mandela alikuja hapa December 1962.

Na hata Mandela kwenye kitabu chake alichoandika kiitwacho A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533, pg. 345: {..we arrived in Dar Es Salaam the next day and I met Julius Nyerere, the newly independent country's firss President..}

Hivyo, wakati ule asingemkuta Nyerere akiwa President, na wakati pekee alipokuwa President ni kuanzia December 09, 1962.

Tuwe tunasoma kabla ya kwenda public.

Penye red hapo,,naona na wewe mtoa mada unabahatisha tu,,huna uhakika.

 

[Kilahunja]

watanzania wengi tunapenda ku support especially negative stuffs towards our president
...mwanzisha thread kwanza hana uhakika na anachokinena na kabla ya kupost hii kitu alitakiwa ajiridhishe kama yupo sahihi
..kuna wadau kama wawili wameeleza vizuri saana
..hotuba iliyosomwa na his excellence imeandikwa uhalisia na imesomwa mara kadhaa kabla ya kusomwa before the mass
....mtoa mada ni MZANDIKI
....ikumbukwe still wapo wazee wenye umri kama wa marehem Rolihlahla na Nyerere ambap serikali inawatumia kama marejeo
.....team ilio compose president speech iko sahihi na imeandika sahihi
...na hisi WEWE mwanzisha thread ndio hujui na perhaps husomi sana vitabu na hivyo vijitabu sijui vitatu havitoshi kukufanya u question his excellence speech ...
...no research no right to speak, u still need lots ov reading
...alokutuma kufanya UZANDIKI na kumwaga PROPAGANDA hii mwambie amefaulu kuwachota GREAT SUNKERS but ame fail kuwakamata GREAT THINKERS
....
HIS/HER MISSION IS NOT ACCOMPLISHED

......to be continues ......!!!
Mtanzania
sikajiji
Gamba la Nyoka
heko kwenu you are really great great great THINKERS

 

[Kigogo]

Jk ni mvivu kusoma ...

 

[Shekizongoro]

Mi nampinga JK kwa mengine lakini tukifika mabo yanayohusu Africa na ukombozi wake JK anajua kulikowengi mnavodhani! Jamaa naamini hata angeona mwezi umekosewa angerekebisha on the spot. Kama kakosea basi kakosea hajafikia waliomwandaa wa alama za viziwi.

 

[Balantanda]

Jk ni mvivu kusoma ...

Na wewe ni mvivu wa kufikiri........

Unaunga mkono hata kitu usichokijua....

Akili za kuambiwa, changanya na za kwako ndugu....

 

[zumbemkuu]

no wonder waandika hotuba wanawaandikia wakubwa zao kuwa Tanzania ni muungano wa nchi mbili za Zanzibar na Zimbabwe, na waandikiwa hotuba nao kwa uvivu hawajishughulishi hata kupitia hizo hotuba wanazondaliwa....

 

[The Monk]

Kama hali ndiyo hii we don't keep proper record.

Mkuu sio tu we don't keep proper records, we don't do our Job!

Ila pamoja na hayo, hotuba ya leo kajitahidi, he exceeded my expectations!

 

[Balantanda]

Na ukisoma hii article utaelewa vizuri ni kwa nini Rais Jakaya Kikwete alikuwa sahihi kwenye speech yake....

Mandela's first step in his long walk to freedom was in Lobatse

by Sunday Standard Reporter
09-12-2013

Nelson Mandela's first step outside South Africa during his long walk to freedom landed him outside a shabby incomplete house in the Lobatse township of Peleng. Recalls the owner of the house, the late Fish Keitseng: One day I was in my room, plastering the walls in the afternoon, and I had not been contacted by the ANC about any people coming. Then I saw Mandela stopping by my house in a car, driving with an Indian chap." The Indian chap was Amien Cajee, a political activist and close friend of Ahmed Kathrada who had driven Mandela across the border to Lobatse.

This was January 1962, a few days after the African National Congress military wing, uMkonto we Sizwe (MK) publicly announced its existence with 57 bombings on Dingane's Day(16 December) 1961, followed by further attacks on New Year's Eve. Fish Keitseng in Lobatse became the first port of call as Mandela prepared to travel throughout Africa to promote the armed struggle of the African National Congress. As Keitseng and his wife Sina were in the process of building their house, Mandela slept in the same room as the couple with his comrade Amien Cajee. Not only was this ramshackle house an important transit route for ANC activists, materials and weaponry into South Africa from the rest of Africa, it was also one of the most strategic points on the transit route through to the Witwatersrand and beyond. The success of the struggle for freedom was dependent on maintaining contacts and safe houses along this route to ensure the secure passage of activists through to Johannesburg, Pretoria and environs. The route from Comrade Keitseng's house in Peleng was through Zeerust/Mafikeng and Rustenburg, according to a report compiled by the South African North West province. Between the times the last MK bomb went off on New Years' Eve of 1961 to the time he was finally arrested in Natal in July 1962, Madiba slept more nights in the shabby room he shared with Fish Keitseng and his wife than at any one place in South Africa.

According to Keitseng, the room "didn't even have a real door, just a piece of wood hanging from the wall." While some media at the time had dubbed Mandela the "Black Pimpernel" for his daring underground activities in organizing the MK, while living in Lobatse he assumed the pseudonym "David Motsamayi"."Mandela slept there with me, and at five o'clock in the morning, he woke up. He said he wanted to go do some training. He didn't even want to wait for tea, and he only drank some in the evening. We went on top of a big hill, Peleng Hill, crossed it, and then went by the Kanye road until we went on top of another hill near Bathoen's siding. You know, Mandela used to eat just once a day. Also, if we stopped somewhere to rest, he used to read books. He said he was teaching himself how to be a freedom fighter. The man was always that way. I you want to cut the tree; you must first sharpen the axe. Recalls Comrade Keitseng:

"Mandela was just staying in Lobatse with me. We spent many days together, going out training in the bush. Some of the time Max Mlonyeni would join us. One day I received a phone call from Tanzania, telling me that they wanted Mandela there." Keitseng thereafter accompanied Mandela to Tanzania via Kasane where they were assisted by Ducan Mlazie senior. Mandela was to attend the February 1962 Pan African Freedom Movement for East, Central and Southern Africa (PAFMECSA) meeting in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Traveling there in secret, Mandela met with Emperor Haile Selassie I, and gave hisspeech after Selaisse's at the conference. After the conference, he travelled to Cairo, Egypt, admiring the political reforms of President Gamal Abdel Nasser, and then went to Tunis, Tunisia, where President Habib Bourguiba gave him £5000 for weaponry. He proceeded to Morocco, Mali, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia and Senegal, receiving funds from Liberian President William Tubman and Guinean President Ahmed Sékou Touré.

Leaving Africa for London, England, he met anti-apartheid activists, reporters and prominent leftist politicians. Returning to Ethiopia, he began a six-month course in guerrilla warfare, but completed only two months before being recalled to South Africa. On his way back Mandela's final stay in Botswana was much shorter. After landing with Fish Keitseng at Kanye from East Africa, on the evening of 23rd of July 1962, within two hours he had crossed through the Pioneer Border Gate. By then he knew that the enemy was hot on his trail, and indeed he was finally captured in Natal only two weeks later.

Born and raised in Kanye, Fish had been a member of the ANC since 1948. His political mentor was the Transvaal ANC/Communist leader J.B. Marks, who initially recruited him into the African Mineworkers Union. In 1952 Fish helped organize the Defiance Campaign, which resulted in his first of several imprisonments. In 1956 he was known as "Robin Hood of Newclare" after releasing a group of pass law offenders, resulting in two days of street battles between township residents and the police. The violence subsided when he accepted Mandela's advice and turned himself in. While serving a sentence for the above, Keitseng was further charged with 155 other leading figures, including Mandela, in the Treason Trial. Being self-educated Fish had never considered himself to be a "leader". Mandela told him: "You think these people are watching you? They aren't. They are watching your actions."

In 1959 he was deported back to Botswana. Thereafter he was informed by Joe Modise that the ANC wanted him to co-ordinate the refugee "pipeline" through Botswana, an operation which ultimately involved the movement of thousands of people, including Mandela and Thabo Mbeki, over many years. In October 1962 Keitseng was travelling through Southern Rhodesia with a group of 26 ANC youth activists (including Thabo Mbeki), heading towards Tanganyika. The group was arrested and were detained and tortured for six weeks. They were then transported out of the country, to be handed over to the South African authorities. However, Keitseng managed to smuggle out information about the movement to fellow activists. They, in turn, managed to persuade the British District Commissioner of Palapye to block the train and release the captives. In the same month the ANC held a clandestine congress in Keitseng's Lobatse safe-house. This meeting formally endorsed the new line of armed struggle against the Apartheid regime. During his long walk to freedom, Mandela crossed the paths of various other Batswana in the country and elsewhere. Mike Dingake, who spent time being incarcerated with Mandela on Ruben Island, recalls how Madiba's spirit remained indomitable.

Another figure who was in contact with Madiba when he was behind bars was Frieda Matthews, by then the Gaborone based widow of Madiba's own ANC mentor, Z.K. Matthews.

The later South African born Mongwato also served as a mentor to Seretse Khama and advisor to his uncle Tshekedi, as well as drafter of the Freedom charter and Botswana's first ambassador to the UN and USA.

Mandela was for many years limited to writing but one letter every six months to a relative. Being an aunt by marriage, Frieda, whom Mandela addressed as "Rragadi Orategang", thus became a conduit of censored but still valued contact to the outside world.

Sunday Standard - Online Edition

 

[Vin Diesel]

Sijui kwanini tu wepesi sana kutafuta mabaya na mapungufu ya wenzetu...hata pale wanapopatia tunalazimisha kuonekane na mapungufu.

 

[BigMan]

Tuwe tuna-edit kabla ya ku-post: "viongoziwetu", "karibi" "firss President".
Nakupataje naomba utupatie chanzo cha nukuu yako kuwa Mandela alifika Tanganyika Disemba 1962. kwani kwa mwajibu wa maandiko mengi nilioyapitia yanataja mwaka tu yaani 1962. mfano ni 1. A LONG WALK TO FREEDOM, ISBN: 9780349106533. 2. Africa and the West, By Godfrey Mwakikagile pp. xv: ISBN 1-56072-840-x. Kumbuka pia maelezo ya Mheshiwa Rais si lazima yawe yote yanatokana na historia iliyoandikwa, sehemu kubwa ya Historia haijaandikwa hiyo yaweza kuwa pia ni chanzo kizuri cha Historia. Mimi nilifikiri ni vema kujiuliza chanzo cha kile alichokisema/alichokisoma JK ni nini? Kabla ya kukimbilia kudai eti kapotoshwa. Sidhani kama speech yake yatokana na source moja. Kumbuka kuna watanzania wakati huo watanganyika walikutana na Marehemu Madiba na kula naye, kufanya naye kazi nk. Na pia kuna wako waliofanya naye kazi kwa karibu sana kama Ullekh NP: Who was the first Speaker of Parliament of independent South Africa and an ANC veteran, was a close associate of Nelson Mandela.

I salute you,umeongea point za muhimu sana,Jk ameeleza wazi Mandela alipokuja nchini alifikia kwa kina Swai ambaye alikuwa mweka hazina wa TANU na aliacha buti zake ambazo zilihifadhiwa na kukabidhiwa na Mama Nsilo Swai alipokuja mara ya pili nchini baada ya kutoka jela,inawezekana kabisa kuna sources nyingi za taarifa ambazo ikulu inazo kinyume na mtoa mada anavyofikiri na ambazo zimetumika kuandika hiyo hutuba.Mandela alipokuja nchini lazima tukubali kuwa alikuwa karibu na TANU na kuna uwezekana wa kuwepo kwa vitabu vya kusaini ambavyo vyote vinaonyesha tarehe aliyokuja nchini.Mtoa mada amesimama zaidi katika hoja za kufikirika kwa maana ya kwamba kwa kuwa ilikuwa hivi basi kitu fulani kisingeweza kufanyika,la hasha chochote kingeza kufanyika hivyo jamani tusikubali kuingizwa kichwa kichwa katika post kama ilivyo hivi sasa kwa Watanzania kukubali kila kitu ambacho tutaanza kuelezwa ama kuposiwa

 

[KISHINDO]

1. Wao wanawaza kuiangamiza chadema tu na si mambo mengine, tena ya kihistoria? Wapi!!?
2. Ukiwa na lais kilaza, unategemea waliomzunguka si vilaza.
Acha wafu wazikane wao kwa wao.

 

[Nikupateje]

Sijui kwanini tu wepesi sana kutafuta mabaya na mapungufu ya wenzetu...hata pale wanapopatia tunalazimisha kuonekane na mapungufu.

Tetea vyovyote uwezavyo. Lakini hapa mwongo ama ni JK au Nelson Mandela, na wala si mleta mada ambaye ni mimi.