Kama Mungu hayupo, umaarufu wake unatoka wapi?

[ShyaRuwa]

Demons can't be killed in mortality like the pigs. Demons are the rebel angels and they have their proper demolition during judgement day to let them enter into the pigs was to show how Jesus care about the soul of His child.

God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey.

I was nearly vomiting just when I read your reply...Why God is gambling his almighty over his people only to know weather they will trust in him or not???...For the sake of my mind dignity I wont reply further more in the thread.

 

[REDEEMER.]

Do you have free will?

Can you go back to yesterday and change the things you want to change?

You are confusing two questions. You are answering a question I did not ask while not answering the question I asked.

The question I asked is, why did a God who knows everything, has all love and all ability create a universe in which evil is possible?

This question asks about God's reasoning. Any answer that talks about God's creation is a wrong answer. Because the answer will go further than the point I am asking, which is before God created anything. I am asking about God's motives and reasoning before he created anything.

When you are answering that "God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin", when the question is "Why did god create a universe in which sin/ evil is even possible while he could have created a universe in which evil/sin is not possible, like going backwards in time to humans is not possible in this universe?", you are showing me that you did not understand the question to begin with. Either that or you are evading the question asked and answering a question I did not ask.

As long as you want to know why there is evilness while the God who is omniscient had not take any action to save the world from it there is only one answer to you and i did it don't choose the answers you want from me what i wrote is valid and factual.

God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey.

 

[REDEEMER.]

Mtu akikwambia anaamini jua litachomoza kesho asubuhi na anapanga siku yake ya kesho na mikutano yake ya kazi.

Na mwingine akakwambia hana imani wala hajui kwamba jua litachomoza kesho asubuhi (jua linaweza kupata supenovae likaungua leo ukawa mwisho wa dunia) hivyo haoni haja ya kupanga mambo ya kesho, wote hawa wana imani.

Imani gani unaona inafaa zaidi?

Wewe unajinasibisha na imani gani kati ya hizi mbili? kwa sababu gani?

Unavyosema hakuna mungu siyo imani hiyo?
My only question.

 

[REDEEMER.]

I was nearly vomiting just when I read your reply...Why God is gambling his almighty over his people only to know weather they will trust in him or not???...For the sake of my mind dignity I wont reply further more in the thread.

Duh! Okay rush vomiting 🙄

 

[REDEEMER.]

I was nearly vomiting just when I read your reply...Why God is gambling his almighty over his people only to know weather they will trust in him or not???...For the sake of my mind dignity I wont reply further more in the thread.

Mtu akishindwa hoja lazima uone vituko na vibweka kama hivi hivyo kwa mamlaka niliyonayo nakutangaza kwamba umekimbia na mjadala umekushinda kwa hoja zako mufilisi zisizo na kichwa wala miguu kajipange upya na uombe pambano upya.

Huna hoja yoyote ya msingi na huwezi kushindana mimi lazima utapike damu.

 

[Kiranga]

Unavyosema hakuna mungu siyo imani hiyo?
My only question.

'.
Sina tatizo na imani. Nikisema "Jua litachomoza kesho, ngoja nipange mikutano yangu ya kesho kazini, hiyo ni imani.

Sina hakika kwamba jua litachomoza kesho. Jua linaweza kupasuka vipande vipande kwa supernovae sasa hivi, dunia ikafikia mwisho wake katika masaa. Kesho kusiwe na kazi.

Lakini kwa sababu hili linaweza kutokea, ni makosa kupanga siku yangu ya kesho kazini kwa kuamini kwamba jua litachomoza?

Mimi sipingi imani. Hakuna kinachowezekana bila kuwa na chembe ya imani.

Ninachopinga ni imani potofu. Imani ambayo haina logic. Imani inayojipinga yenyewe.

Imani ya kuamini Mungu mjuzi yote, mwenye upendo wote na uwezo wote ambaye kaumba ulimwengu huu uliojaa maovu ni imani potofu, isiyo na logic na inayojipinga yenyewe.

Ni potofu kwa sababu haina logic, haina logic kwa sababu inajipinga yenyewe, inajipinga yenyewe kwa sababu mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote kuumba ulimwengu ambao maovu yanawezekana wakati alikuwa na uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote kuumba u ulimwengu ambao maovu yanawezekana ni kujipinga (contradiction).

 

[REDEEMER.]

Kiranga has been the godfather of many low minds to atheism without having clues about what they are battle for matokeo yake ndio hivi vinakimbia thread huku na hapo nimerilax tu nikiamua kuwavimbia mtashutoff everything not only data.

 

[Kiranga]

Mtu akishindwa hoja lazima uone vituko na vibweka kama hivi hivyo kwa mamlaka niliyonayo nakutangaza kwamba umekimbia na mjadala umekushinda kwa hoja zako mufilisi zisizo na kichwa wala miguu kajipange upya na uombe pambano upya.

Huna hoja yoyote ya msingi na huwezi kushindana mimi lazima utapike damu.

Kwa nini mungu mjuzi wa yote atake kujua kama viumbe atakaowaumba watamti au hawatamtii?

Point yake ni nini kuwapa viumbe mtihani kama yeye anajua kila kitu?

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga has been the godfather of many low minds to atheism without having clues about what they are battle for matokeo yake ndio hivi vinakimbia thread huku na hapo nimerilax tu nikiamua kuwavimbia mtashutoff everything not only data.

Hujajibu swali.

Kwa nini Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote kaumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana wakati alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani bila yeye huyo Mungu kupoteza chochote?

 

[REDEEMER.]

'.
Sina tatizo na imani. Nikisema "Jua litachomoza kesho, ngoja nipange mikutano yangu ya kesho kazini, hiyo ni imani.

Sina hakika kwamba jua litachomoza kesho. Jua linaweza kupasuka vipande vipande kwa supernovae sasa hivi, dunia ikafikia mwisho wake katika masaa. Kesho kusiwe na kazi.

Lakini kwa sababu hili linaweza kutokea, ni makosa kupanga siku yangu ya kesho kazini kwa kuamini kwamba jua litachomoza?

Mimi sipingi imani. Hakuna kinachowezekana bila kuwa na chembe ya imani.

Ninachopinga ni imani potofu. Imani ambayo haina logic. Imani inayojipinga yenyewe.

Imani ya kuamini Mungu mjuzi yote, mwenye upendo wote na uwezo wote ambaye kaumba ulimwengu huu uliojaa maovu ni imani potofu, isiyo na logic na inayojipinga yenyewe.

Ni potofu kwa sababu haina logic, haina logic kwa sababu inajipinga yenyewe, inajipinga yenyewe kwa sababu mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote kuumba ulimwengu ambao maovu yanawezekana wakati alikuwa na uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote kuumba u ulimwengu ambao maovu yanawezekana ni kujipinga (contradiction).

Good now you are coming.
What is your faith?
How you notice the perfect faith?
How can i have the logic faith?
What makes faith logical?
Why do you need the logic faith?

 

[Kiranga]

Good now you are coming.
What is your faith?

My epistomology is the eradication of faith and replacing it with knowledge. We converge towards this end by the scientific method. We reduce faith and increase knowledge by questioning every faith, and testing it experimentally and logically. We root out what fails and retain what passes empirical and logical standards.

How you notice the perfect faith?

There is no perfect faith. Any faith is stained, because faith supposes untested things.This is why I have said before I am only embracing faith so that I can get rid of faith and converge towards knowledge.

Moreover, the concept of "perfect" itself is questionable. It is entirely possible that things can be said to be "perfect" only in a relative framework. Albert Einstein demonstrated this more than 100 years ago when he showed that there is no absolute (i.e "perfect") time, and that all time is relative.

Why do you think there is anything perfect at all? Let alone perfect faith?

If you extend this argument that there is nothing perfect, you will see that there is no God. Because God is supposed to be the epitome of perfection, and perfection is an idea that cannot be realized.

How can i have the logic faith?

Your goal should be to eradicate faith, to do this you need to embrace logic so you could converge towards knowledge and away from simple faith.

You eradicate simple faith by examination. One particularly useful way of doing this is looking for contradictions.

For example.

If we know, from Euclidian geometry, that a triangle is not a circle, and a circle is not a triangle.That these two are distinc things, and someone tells us "trust me, I have this magic triangle which is also a circle", we should know that this is a contradiction. We should not believe that.

Why?

Because a triangle is not a circle, a circle is not a triangle, a triangle cannot be a circle and a circle cannot be a triangle in the framework of Euclidean geometry.

You may ask, what do triangles and circles have to do with the question of the existence of God?

I have one word.

Contradiction.

Believing an all powerful, all loving and all knowing God exists and created this universe which is full of evil, and this God was able to create a world in which evil is impossible, is contradictory.

Just as believing a triangle which is also simultaneously a circle is contradictory.

What makes faith logical?

The first test is logical consistency. Is the faith that the sun will raise tomorrow contradicted by any evidence or logic?

No. In the history of mankind. The sun has never failed to shine, not for a single day. So this is a pretty good starting point.

But even further than that, current physics states that the sun has about 5 billion years before it exhausts its energy and supernovaes.So we should not be worried about a supernovae today, that will be 5 billion years premature.

So believing that the sun will shine tomorrow is a logical faith. Believing that the sun will not shine tomorrow is not logical. We can test this theory further in 24 hours, although I suspect you will not need the hours to see my point.

Why do you need the logic faith?

You must mean why do I need a logical faith.

Keeping with the sun example, I need a logical faith to know whether to plan my day for tomorrow or not.

I need a logical faith in order to get knowledge and toss away logic.

I need a logical faith so when the government tells me something I can tell when to believe (when they are logical) and when not to believe (when they are not logical). If the government tells me I need to pay taxes so the taxes could help me build roads and hospitals, and year after year of my paying taxes nowhere in the country are the roads or hospital any better, I would say this is not logical, my tax money is neither going towards roads or hospitals. This is a lie. I should protest.

I need logical faith to know things I do not know yet. To find the cure of AIDS, cancer etc. I can't have faith that Konyagi cures AIDS. There is no evidence supporting that. Why should I believe that?

 

[UHURU JR]

Ndiyo maana nasema kusema hakuna mungu kuna hitaji imani bila ya hivyo ni ngumu sana kukubali kuwa hakuna mungu.
Ukiangalia nguvu kubwa inayotumika humu kujaribu kupinga mungu ingekuwa kweli ni rundo tu pekee la sababu za kuhisi hakuna mungu ndiyo humfanya mtu kuona kuwa hakuna mungu basi wengi wangekuwa washaacha kuamini mungu humu.

Sababu zao zilizopelekea safari ya kuanza kuto kuamini mungu hazioneshi jitihadi za wao kuutafuta ukweli hadi kufikia kuhitimisha kuwa mungu hakuna.

 

[Kiranga]

redeemer

Epistemology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

e·pis·te·mol·o·gy
iˌpistəˈmäləjē/
noun
PHILOSOPHY

1. the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.

 

[John Amigo]

K

Weli kabisa saivi ni nyakati za mwisho.

Nyakat za nenda kwa usalama

 

[Kiranga]

Ndiyo maana nasema kusema hakuna mungu kuna hitaji imani bila ya hivyo ni ngumu sana kukubali kuwa hakuna mungu.
Ukiangalia nguvu kubwa inayotumika humu kujaribu kupinga mungu ingekuwa kweli ni rundo tu pekee la sababu za kuhisi hakuna mungu ndiyo humfanya mtu kuona kuwa hakuna mungu basi wengi wangekuwa washaacha kuamini mungu humu.

Sababu zao zilizopelekea safari ya kuanza kuto kuamini mungu hazioneshi jitihadi za wao kuutafuta ukweli hadi kufikia kuhitimisha kuwa mungu hakuna.

Nani kapinga imani?

Kuna mtu anayeweza kuishi bila imani?

Unafahamu tofauti ya imani na imani potofu?

Unaelewa kwamba mimi sipingi kuwepo kwa mungu kwa sababu ni imani, napinga kwa sababu ni imani potofu?

Unafahamu kwamba ukiamka asubuhi kitandani, unaposhusha mguu ukanyage sakafu, pale unaposhusha mguu unashusha kwa imani nyingi sana.

Unashusha kwa imani kwamba sakafu ya sehemu unaposhusha mguu ina nguvu ya kusupport uzito wako.

Unashusha kwa imani kwamba eneo ulipo halitapigwa na tetemeko la ardhi litakalofanya upande huo wa kitanda upatwe na madhila zaidi ya upande mwingine.

Utashusha kwa imani kwamba hakuna jini atakayekupa kipandauso ambaye anausubiri mguu wako ili akupande mpaka usoni.

et cetera, ete cetera.

Lakini mimi sina shida na imani ya kushusha mguu wangu nikiamka asubuhi. Hii ni imani logical. Sijawahi kupata matatizo kwa kufanya hivyo. Risks zinazokuwa associated na mimi kuamka na kushusha mguu wangu hivyo ni laughably negligible nikizilinganisha na risks za mimi kutoamka kwa kuopgopa tetemeko au jini halafu nisiende kazini kisha nikafukuzwa kazini (I work from home, so I could work from my bed without touching the floor if I want, but that's not the point).

Unaona kwamba tatizo si imani, bali ni imani potofu?

 

[UHURU JR]

Nani kapinga imani?

Kuna mtu anayeweza kuishi bila imani?

Unafahamu tofauti ya imani na imani potofu?

Unaelewa kwamba mimi sipingi kuwepo kwa mungu kwa sababu ni imani, napinga kwa sababu ni imani potofu?

Unafahamu kwamba ukiamka asubuhi kitandani, unaposhusha mguu ukanyage sakafu, pale unaposhusha mguu unashusha kwa imani nyingi sana.

Unashusha kwa imani kwamba sakafu ya sehemu unaposhusha mguu ina nguvu ya kusupport uzito wako.

Unashusha kwa imani kwamba eneo ulipo halitapigwa na tetemeko la ardhi litakalofanya upande huo wa kitanda upatwe na madhila zaidi ya upande mwingine.

Utashusha kwa imani kwamba hakuna jini atakayekupa kipandauso ambaye anausubiri mguu wako ili akupande mpaka usoni.

et cetera, ete cetera.

Lakini mimi sina shida na imani ya kushusha mguu wangu nikiamka asubuhi. Hii ni imani logical. Sijawahi kupata matatizo kwa kufanya hivyo. Risks zinazokuwa associated na mimi kuamka na kushusha mguu wangu hivyo ni laughably negligible nikizilinganisha na risks za mimi kutoamka kwa kuopgopa tetemeko au jini halafu nisiende kazini kisha nikafukuzwa kazini (I work from home, so I could work from my bed without touching the floor if I want, but that's not the point).

Unaona kwamba tatizo si imani, bali ni imani potofu?

kuamini ni kukubali jambo bila kuhakiki kwa stadi inayotakiwa,hivyo imani itakuwa ni jambo lisilo hakikiwa kwa stadi inayotakiwa.
Kama nimekosea niweke sawa kwanza hapo mkuu.

 

[Kiranga]

kuamini ni kukubali jambo bila kuhakiki kwa stadi inayotakiwa,hivyo imani itakuwa ni jambo lisilo hakikiwa kwa stadi inayotakiwa.
Kama nimekosea niweke sawa kwanza hapo mkuu.

Hujakosea.

Hoja yako nini?

 

[UHURU JR]

Hujakosea.

Hoja yako nini?

Je,unakubali kuwa kusema hakuna mungu kuna hitaji imani?

 

[Kiranga]

Je,unakubali kuwa kusema hakuna mungu kuna hitaji imani?

Hili swali linadhihirisha kwamba ama wewe ni m.pum.bavu, ama husomi maandiko yangu.

Na ndiyo maana hatuelewani.

Utaniulizaje swali ambalo nishakujibu katika jibu ambalo nilinukuu post yako?

Unataka nikuwekee post yenyewe hapa?

Au utalitafuta hili swali, kuisoma upya thread na kujirudi kwa kuondoa hili swali kabla sijaonesha aibu ya ujinga wako hapa?

 

[UHURU JR]

Hili swali linadhihirisha kwamba ama wewe ni m.pum.bavu, ama husomi maandiko yangu.

Na ndiyo maana hatuelewani.

Utaniulizaje swali ambalo nishakujibu katika jibu ambalo nilinukuu post yako?

Unataka nikuwekee post yenyewe hapa?

Au utalitafuta hili swali, kuisoma upya thread na kujirudi kwa kuondoa hili swali kabla sijaonesha aibu ya ujinga wako hapa?

Hili swali linadhihirisha kwamba ama wewe ni m.pum.bavu, ama husomi maandiko yangu.

Na ndiyo maana hatuelewani.

Utaniulizaje swali ambalo nishakujibu katika jibu ambalo nilinukuu post yako?

Unataka nikuwekee post yenyewe hapa?

Au utalitafuta hili swali, kuisoma upya thread na kujirudi kwa kuondoa hili swali kabla sijaonesha aibu ya ujinga wako hapa?

Usitokwe mapovu mkuu. Hayo maandiko yako unayosema hayana jibu la hili swali bali umeeleza sana kuwa kuna imani na imani potofu,pia ukamalizia na kusema kuwa tatizo sio imani ila imani potofu.
Sasa maelezo hayo hakuna jibu la wazi kuwa umekubaliana na nilichokuuliza na mimi nataka jibu la wazi kutoka na nilichokuuliza