Kenya declares war on Al Shabaab!

[Askari Kanzu]

:lol: Please, I am not worried by the insults, I am simply pointing out the facts here. The fact is there are xenophobic goons that are roaming this forum and we can tell a barb from a mile and those are not barbs, in typical Kenyan fashion I would say "C'est la vie" I got ganji to make.

Gotcha!

 

[Lonestriker]

I am not cowered by your gag threats. If you belittle my Country my people and the brave men and women who have put their lives on the line to protect us I will confront you about it! If you are unable to keep up a sane discusion and resort to threatening to silence me I will remind you of how insignificant you are and drown your vitriol with logic!

The mashifta war wasnt exactly a 'maji maji' rebelion so read a book about it since you dont have the faintest idea what went on.

Nobody has threatened you,just answer my question,how long did it take you to stop mashifta war?What about the Sabaot people defence force where your forces never showed an iota of professionalism...Am yet to hear from on why innocent kenyan citizens were killed by your own forces even after being identified as mere fishermen and being told to go home only to be shot as they turned,I thought you had a professiönal army that does not resort to cowardly acts of killing it's own unarmed citizens...worse still,your media which is mainly limited to reporting copy and paste war stories is trying not to report the story...war is a nasty business even to the mighty nations,the ultimate ruin of many great empires.Cheap rhetorts and bashful comments won't help,sobber up and see through,you are being used to fight someones war!

 

[Ulinziguy]

Am really shocked to hear some people here insulting/doubting the professionalism of our army and their war tactics in somalia.You know before you point a finger ask yourself 'why aren't your troops in somalia'?its seemply because you cannot support such a magnitude of war and its repurcusions.And i can say with no doubt that the uganda of '78 is not the same now.They have more weapons than you so you cannot wage a succesful war with it without upgrading your fleet.So please if you are thinking that your troops are better then send them to mogadishu!we want to see peace in somalia at costs.lets stop boasting here and engage in meaningful criticism please

 

[Webabu]

Am really shocked to hear some people here insulting/doubting 1.the professionalism of our army and their war tactics in somalia.You know before you point a finger ask yourself 'why aren't your troops in somalia'?its seemply because you cannot support such a magnitude of war and its repurcusions.And i can say with no doubt that the uganda of '78 is not the same now.They have more weapons than you so you cannot wage a succesful war with it without upgrading your fleet.2.So please if you are thinking that your troops are better then send them to mogadishu!we want to see peace in somalia at costs.lets stop boasting here and engage in meaningful criticism please

1.Are you more tactical than Allah.Ask yourself how comes that you are now bogged down in mud in the Somali jungle,very easy to be killed.

2.What childish reasonig is this for commiting war against another man !.Tanzanian army without being infiltrated by CIA agents as I doubt I believe can't send its army to Somalia the same way you have done.So far this is your war and wait to be strategically defeated by Al Shabaab.

 

[Lonestriker]

Am really shocked to hear some people here insulting/doubting the professionalism of our army and their war tactics in somalia.You know before you point a finger ask yourself 'why aren't your troops in somalia'?its seemply because you cannot support such a magnitude of war and its repurcusions.And i can say with no doubt that the uganda of '78 is not the same now.They have more weapons than you so you cannot wage a succesful war with it without upgrading your fleet.So please if you are thinking that your troops are better then send them to mogadishu!we want to see peace in somalia at costs.lets stop boasting here and engage in meaningful criticism please

Why are our troops not in Somalia?It never gets dumber than that!So you mean that your army is in Somalia because of it's superiority...then why didn't it land there before Ugandan and Burundi armies?Even tiny Djibout is sending her army there,so basing on your argument I won't be surprised if you conclude that it has a stronger army than ours

Please answer my allegations of unprofessionalism in your army,perhaps I may not understand or agree but there are thousands of people who know logic,proud and intelligent Kenyan tell me is it not unprofessionalism when an army kills it's own unarmed fishermen citizen, cowardly,telling them to go free önly to shoot at their backs?

 

[Lonestriker]

Am really shocked to hear some people here insulting/doubting the professionalism of our army and their war tactics in somalia.You know before you point a finger ask yourself 'why aren't your troops in somalia'?its seemply because you cannot support such a magnitude of war and its repurcusions.And i can say with no doubt that the uganda of '78 is not the same now.They have more weapons than you so you cannot wage a succesful war with it without upgrading your fleet.So please if you are thinking that your troops are better then send them to mogadishu!we want to see peace in somalia at costs.lets stop boasting here and engage in meaningful criticism please

You sound so defensive and hence a bit irrational,just argue your case,there are thousands neutrals reading this forum who perhaps will agree with your reasons if you presents them.
Why didn't your army invade Ethiopia when kenyans were killed by Ethiopians and hundreds of livestock taken,your Prime minister and even the minister for defense not being able to address wananchi within your borders?Does it not sound so dumb that only when a foreigner is captured(mind you,not killed while Kenyans have been killed by Ethiopians and are being whipped daily in Migingo and Ugingo) is when the politicians come out crying for war?

 

[Lonestriker]

:lol: Please, I am not worried by the insults, I am simply pointing out the facts here. The fact is there are xenophobic goons that are roaming this forum and we can tell a barb from a mile and those are not barbs, in typical Kenyan fashion I would say "C'est la vie" I got ganji to make.

Assuming we are xenophobic goons,what of all those Kenyans who are against the war or rather putting it better your war strategy?Have Kenyan columnists who are of the same opinion that Kenya is used to fight someone's war just like the Libyan rebels were used to oust Ghaddafi.Are Aljazeera,Times...xenophobic too?We have nothing against Kenyans and Kenya,we respect them and even like them and when a friend is messing up one has no option but to help the friend see the light.
You will be surprised when the wikileaks on this war comes out...

 

[Mekatilili]

Nobody has threatened you,just answer my question,how long did it take you to stop mashifta war?What about the Sabaot people defence force where your forces never showed an iota of professionalism...Am yet to hear from on why innocent kenyan citizens were killed by your own forces even after being identified as mere fishermen and being told to go home only to be shot as they turned,I thought you had a professiönal army that does not resort to cowardly acts of killing it's own unarmed citizens...worse still,your media which is mainly limited to reporting copy and paste war stories is trying not to report the story...war is a nasty business even to the mighty nations,the ultimate ruin of many great empires.Cheap rhetorts and bashful comments won't help,sobber up and see through,you are being used to fight someones war!

Sadly you peddle lies & based on what you have stated you know very little about Kenya and all this is an effort to divert everyone away from the spiteful nature of the rhetoric on this site by considerable number of goons.

You are also desperately in need of attention and that's why you are trying your best to fit yourself into this conversation never mind your intellectual contribution here is negligible.

The duration of the shifta war and the 30 day containment of the Militia forces in Mt Elgon not withstanding you have now shifted from, your forces can't fight to your forces are too effective/ brutal. You are truly desperate for anything to use to taint our forces and so I ask you WHAT IS YOUR POINT 4 years and 30 days later??

You don't even have an idea what the skiff incident was and you are peddling lies once more.

You were among the goons who threatened me with a gag but IN MY LAST POST I INCLUDED SOME OF THE INDIVIDUALS ON THIS FORUM THAT CALLED FOR THE KILLING OF KENYANS. What have you got to say to that or is your concern still the fact that every single lie you have spread has been debunked and that I am running circles around you?????

Habouring such hatred for people who do not know, care and the yard stick for 'to be' is tough. If whining were a profession you would be the Bill Gates. Yours is a stellar case of the inferiority complex that plagues you. INFERIORITY COMPLEX!!

 

[Mekatilili]

Assuming we are xenophobic goons,what of all those Kenyans who are against the war or rather putting it better your war strategy?Have Kenyan columnists who are of the same opinion that Kenya is used to fight someone's war just like the Libyan rebels were used to oust Ghaddafi.Are Aljazeera,Times...xenophobic too?We have nothing against Kenyans and Kenya,we respect them and even like them and when a friend is messing up one has no option but to help the friend see the light.
You will be surprised when the wikileaks on this war comes out...

You are hoping I would recognize you and respond to you incoherence. Let me make your day.

So you have been dying for me to call you one of the xenophobic goons never mind I did not include a single post of yours in my previous statement. I don't think you are xenophobic, far from it your feelings are driven by your INFERIORITY COMPLEX.

In Kenya we have polls, a true multi party system and divergent views and I can define any of those as they might be alien concepts to you. This operation receives overwhelming support from the public.

As for the opinion colums in the Al Jazeera's of this world, I hope it is not a stretch to assume you are aware of the difference between opinion Ed and News. For every single critic of this operation there are 100 backers including YOUR PRESIDENT WHO WENT OUT OF HIS WAY DURING THE COMMONWEALTH MEETING TO DECLARE HIS SUPPORT FOR KENYA.

 

[Mekatilili]

You sound so defensive and hence a bit irrational,just argue your case,there are thousands neutrals reading this forum who perhaps will agree with your reasons if you presents them.
Why didn't your army invade Ethiopia when kenyans were killed by Ethiopians and hundreds of livestock taken,your Prime minister and even the minister for defense not being able to address wananchi within your borders?Does it not sound so dumb that only when a foreigner is captured(mind you,not killed while Kenyans have been killed by Ethiopians and are being whipped daily in Migingo and Ugingo) is when the politicians come out crying for war?

INFERIORITY COMPLEX at work! You seem so engaged in the business of manufacturing lies to bolster your attacks on Kenya I wonder how you sleep at night.

Ugingo is securely in Kenyan hands and as for Migingo, you are still engaged in the pop fiction quick fix of lies that hit the spot for you. What information do you have about what is happenIng on the ground there?

I would have loved to go into the issue of Kenyan investment and assets in Uganda and East Africa and how they have determined our neutral policy in the region but .....you are not interested in facts. You feel hurt and your INFERIORITY COMPLEX DRIVES YOU.

 

[Mekatilili]

1.Are you more tactical than Allah.Ask yourself how comes that you are now bogged down in mud in the Somali jungle,very easy to be killed.

2.What childish reasonig is this for commiting war against another man !.Tanzanian army without being infiltrated by CIA agents as I doubt I believe can't send its army to Somalia the same way you have done.So far this is your war and wait to be strategically defeated by Al Shabaab.

Someone told you "udini utakumaliza" go prepare for your holy war and learn about how rain is formed.

I don't mean to be short but did you read what you posted? You do not make sense at all, I wasn't able to follow what you were saying past the rain & (death to America) stuff. Find a translator or something. I don't mean to be offensive but you clearly are incapable of expressing yourself in English.

 

[Mekatilili]

Why are our troops not in Somalia?It never gets dumber than that!So you mean that your army is in Somalia because of it's superiority...then why didn't it land there before Ugandan and Burundi armies?Even tiny Djibout is sending her army there,so basing on your argument I won't be surprised if you conclude that it has a stronger army than ours

Please answer my allegations of unprofessionalism in your army,perhaps I may not understand or agree but there are thousands of people who know logic,proud and intelligent Kenyan tell me is it not unprofessionalism when an army kills it's own unarmed fishermen citizen, cowardly,telling them to go free önly to shoot at their backs?

Let us be honest here! The reason Tanzania is not in Somalia despite the fact Somali pirates have been operating in your waters is because you simply can not afford a war. You have 27 000 active duty personnel and your military budget was $162 million for 2010 while Kenya with over 30,000 active duty troops spent over $700 million on its military the same year. And close to $400 million on the police who have a stand alone budget.

I do not mean to start a competition but I am only pointing the facts, you can not afford a war. Have an honest discussion for a change, you lack the equipment and logistical capability for such an undertaking. You can not afford it!

In regards to AMISOM there are rules regarding troop participation and the reason Kenya did not participate is because only countries that DO NOT SHARE A BORDER with the country the troops are to be deployed to can participate. We however trained 10,000 soldiers for the TFG and is part of the reason the Al shabaab is mad.

 

[Ulinziguy]

Just give us time and we shall prove the likes of the ''ami' wrong here.Everything is going on as planned and am sure very soon the fall of kismayo is immenent.I agree that for a country to declare war to another country then you MUST BE either be protecting your economic interests which is quiet explained in the America's Operation storm desert and Operation Restore Hope.So please be also informed that the KDF follow orders from the head elect.Our decision to attack alshabab is merely to protect our economic interests at large.This operation will nevertheless continue till the effectiveness of the enemy is reduced.We are not doing this because we are millitarily superior.N/B: Brasil and china have never waged a full scale war with its neighbours yet they are the best forces in their regions.closer home souh africa is perceived to be militarily superior yet has never waged a fullscale war.so please give us a break!GOD BLESS KENYA!

 

[Wacha1]

Let us be honest here! The reason Tanzania is not in Somalia despite the fact Somali pirates have been operating in your waters is because you simply can not afford a war. You have 27 000 active duty personnel and your military budget was $162 million for 2010 while Kenya with over 30,000 active duty troops spent over $700 million on its military the same year. And close to $400 million on the police who have a stand alone budget.

I do not mean to start a competition but I am only pointing the facts, you can not afford a war. Have an honest discussion for a change, you lack the equipment and logistical capability for such an undertaking. You can not afford it!

In regards to AMISOM there are rules regarding troop participation and the reason Kenya did not participate is because only countries that DO NOT SHARE A BORDER with the country the troops are to be deployed to can participate. We however trained 10,000 soldiers for the TFG and is part of the reason the Al shabaab is mad.

I thought you are fighting with the Somalis, how was their budget comparing to yours? Having said that, it doesn't mean that when you have big military spending you start the war. That should only be a deterrent, your problems has been exacerbated by ignoring the basics.

BTW nine months and counting .... ...

 

[Lonestriker]

Let us be honest here! The reason Tanzania is not in Somalia despite the fact Somali pirates have been operating in your waters is because you simply can not afford a war. You have 27 000 active duty personnel and your military budget was $162 million for 2010 while Kenya with over 30,000 active duty troops spent over $700 million on its military the same year. And close to $400 million on the police who have a stand alone budget.

I do not mean to start a competition but I am only pointing the facts, you can not afford a war. Have an honest discussion for a change, you lack the equipment and logistical capability for such an undertaking. You can not afford it!

In regards to AMISOM there are rules regarding troop participation and the reason Kenya did not participate is because only countries that DO NOT SHARE A BORDER with the country the troops are to be deployed to can participate. We however trained 10,000 soldiers for the TFG and is part of the reason the Al shabaab is mad.

Hapo sawa,as long as you have the facts and you are not coming out clean hakuna shida,this is a forum where we debate openly.Your fellow Kenyans have failed to answer my questions instead they are coming with tired and over used cliches of 'running rings,debunking,xenophobic....minus any data or facts.
Would you kindly point out your sources,please.
It is childish to say that we can not afford to send an army to Somali yet even tiny Burundi and Djibout can easily do that!Mind you it is not the economy mighty muscles that wins you a war,Tiny Japan overstretched USA for years til Us had to use the atomic bomb(1941-1944).Tiny Chechnya has been a pain on the ass of Mighty Russia for years now...wars are fought on tactics that's why highly trained American commandos were slaughtered by somali soldiers.

 

[Mekatilili]

I thought you are fighting with the Somalis, how was their budget comparing to yours? Having said that, it doesn't mean that when you have big military spending you start the war. That should only be a deterrent, your problems has been exacerbated by ignoring the basics.

BTW nine months and counting .... ...

Sorry if the truth is a bitter pill to swallow but someone asked why Tanzania is not in Somalia despite being affected by Somalia as much as Kenya, Uganda or Burundi all of whom have boots on the ground there.

I don't mean to insult anyone but merely stating the simple truth.

A big military budget is not used as a deterrence. The US spends the most on the military not for show but to be able to fight off threats.

 

[Mekatilili]

Hapo sawa,as long as you have the facts and you are not coming out clean hakuna shida,this is a forum where we debate openly.Your fellow Kenyans have failed to answer my questions instead they are coming with tired and over used cliches of 'running rings,debunking,xenophobic....minus any data or facts.
Would you kindly point out your sources,please.
It is childish to say that we can not afford to send an army to Somali yet even tiny Burundi and Djibout can easily do that!Mind you it is not the economy mighty muscles that wins you a war,Tiny Japan overstretched USA for years til Us had to use the atomic bomb(1941-1944).Tiny Chechnya has been a pain on the ass of Mighty Russia for years now...wars are fought on tactics that's why highly trained American commandos were slaughtered by somali soldiers.

Yes, that's the rule regarding the deployment of AMISOM troops. That is why Ethiopia did not contribute troops. The troops can not be from a country that shares a border with the one they r to be stationed in. So the question is if Uganda and even Burundi sent troops to Somalia why did Tanzania not send troops too despite being impacted by al shabaab and the insecurity as much as Uganda and Burundi.

How much is the average Tanzanian Soldier paid?

What type of equipment does your army operate, do you have a navy? Do you have a true air force what type of planes do they have? Those are some of the questions any military asks itself before considering war. The finances to purchase the equipment and maintain a highly motivated and well paid force is of extreme importance.

In this case Tanzania is not is Somalia because with a $162 million budget for a > 30,000 strong military war is not a feasible option.

Regarding Japan in WWW II The only thing tiny about Japan was its size. Compared to the US it was a formidable force which had been in existence for thousands of years with a lot of money to spend and ability to produce planes, tanks, ships and bombs with ease. The only reason the US won was it was richer and bigger and therefore more modern.

In Chechnya, Russia has absolutely everything under control and to the contrary their brutal crackdown is what many complain about.

How many Somalis lost their lives vs the Americans in Somalia, how many American troops were there at that time and what was their mission and mandate????? The truth is evident one you see that.

 

[Lonestriker]

Let us be honest here! The reason Tanzania is not in Somalia despite the fact Somali pirates have been operating in your waters is because you simply can not afford a war. You have 27 000 active duty personnel and your military budget was $162 million for 2010 while Kenya with over 30,000 active duty troops spent over $700 million on its military the same year. And close to $400 million on the police who have a stand alone budget.

I do not mean to start a competition but I am only pointing the facts, you can not afford a war. Have an honest discussion for a change, you lack the equipment and logistical capability for such an undertaking. You can not afford it!

In regards to AMISOM there are rules regarding troop participation and the reason Kenya did not participate is because only countries that DO NOT SHARE A BORDER with the country the troops are to be deployed to can participate. We however trained 10,000 soldiers for the TFG and is part of the reason the Al shabaab is mad.

Indeed talking of honest!Burundi and Djibout can afford sending troops to Somali while a country that has been playing a major role in Africa liberation can't!Your fellow came up with 33 years calculations,I told him to check his history,Do you even know of the Comoro experience?Michela Wrong in her book,'It's our turn to Eat' said when it comes to international issues your media never gets it right so am not surprised that you don't know about that.
Have you read anywhere that a ship bound for Tanzania or in Tanzania waters ever been captured?Our Navy is protecting our waters efficiently.

 

[Mekatilili]

Hapo sawa,as long as you have the facts and you are not coming out clean hakuna shida,this is a forum where we debate openly.Your fellow Kenyans have failed to answer my questions instead they are coming with tired and over used cliches of 'running rings,debunking,xenophobic....minus any data or facts.
Would you kindly point out your sources,please.
It is childish to say that we can not afford to send an army to Somali yet even tiny Burundi and Djibout can easily do that!Mind you it is not the economy mighty muscles that wins you a war,Tiny Japan overstretched USA for years til Us had to use the atomic bomb(1941-1944).Tiny Chechnya has been a pain on the ass of Mighty Russia for years now...wars are fought on tactics that's why highly trained American commandos were slaughtered by somali soldiers.

Regarding sources, if it is for the AMISOM troop contribution it is in 'UN Security Council Resolution 1725'

If you were referring to ur military budget, it's The Stockholm press that monitors weapon trade and military expenditure trends in the world.

 

[Lonestriker]

Yes, that's the rule regarding the deployment of AMISOM troops. That is why Ethiopia did not contribute troops. The troops can not be from a country that shares a border with the one they r to be stationed in. So the question is if Uganda and even Burundi sent troops to Somalia why did Tanzania not send troops too despite being impacted by al shabaab and the insecurity as much as Uganda and Burundi.

How much is the average Tanzanian Soldier paid?

What type of equipment does your army operate, do you have a navy? Do you have a true air force what type of planes do they have? Those are some of the questions any military asks itself before considering war. The finances to purchase the equipment and maintain a highly motivated and well paid force is of extreme importance.

In this case Tanzania is not is Somalia because with a $162 million budget for a > 30,000 strong military war is not a feasible option.

Regarding Japan in WWW II The only thing tiny about Japan was its size. Compared to the US it was a formidable force which had been in existence for thousands of years with a lot of money to spend and ability to produce planes, tanks, ships and bombs with ease. The only reason the US won was it was richer and bigger and therefore more modern.

In Chechnya, Russia has absolutely everything under control and to the contrary their brutal crackdown is what many complain about.

How many Somalis lost their lives vs the Americans in Somalia, how many American troops were there at that time and what was their mission and mandate????? The truth is evident one you see that.

My God!Do you really know the history of Japan?Do you actually follow the story of Chechnya and Russia?How many russians have been blown up within russian soil...until you understand that you will never know the true cost of a war.US fought in Afghanistan and Iraq and we are all seeing the decline in her economy...