Kenya declares war on Al Shabaab!

Kenya declares war on Al Shabaab!

Interesting:

Chairman Ngatia goes on saying that the government is creating chaos in-order to delay the next year election...that Somalis have higher IQ than Kenyans thats why Alshabaab controls Kenyan economy... that they have bought Kikuyus..:shock:
 
Interesting:

Chairman Ngatia goes on saying that the government is creating chaos in-order to delay the next year election...that Somalis have higher IQ than Kenyans thats why Alshabaab controls Kenyan economy... that they have bought Kikuyus..:shock:

and this is someone whose views, you seem to think, are worthy of serious consideration? This anti-Kenyan jaunt some of you are on makes you very weird indeed!
 
bantugbro said:
Interesting:


Chairman Ngatia goes on saying that the government is creating chaos in-order to delay the next year election...that Somalis have higher IQ than Kenyans thats why Alshabaab controls Kenyan economy... that they have bought Kikuyus..

and this is someone whose views, you seem to think, are worthy of serious consideration? This anti-Kenyan jaunt some of you are on makes you very weird indeed!

So far we have watched Chairman Martin Ngatia's interview, Jeff Koinange's interview all of them have one thing in common, they are critiquing this wayward war, but you rush here to brand us anti-Kenya??? i wonder what you are going to label them..traitors? un-patriotic?
 
So far we have watched Chairman Martin Ngatia's interview, Jeff Koinange's interview all of them have one thing in common, they are critiquing this wayward war, but you rush here to brand us anti-Kenya??? i wonder what you are going to label them..traitors? un-patriotic?

Jeff Koinange hasn't come out against the war, he's just opined that KDF are untested and inexperienced and he has the right to that opinion. However, if you ask people like Major Phil Ashby who've actually seen the KDF in action in very difficult circumstances, they'll probably tell you that that's a load of rubbish. Go on, get the book and read his account for yourself...you'll see the prowess of KDF in relation to the other African soldiers who were there (Nigerian, Guinean, Zambian).

With regard to "chairman" Ngatia, this is someone who thinks that we'll lose the war because Africans/bantu's (i.e. people like you) are congenitally inferior to Somalis/cushites and that, to you, is a view worth considering just because it allows you to indulge in your favourite pastime (bashing Kenya)? Very weird!
 
The writer might not necessarily be right in his analysis but the article is worth reading!

Kenya develops plan for satellite region of Jubaland on Somali border


Invasion success could see Kenyan port converted to oil terminal to ship oil from Sudan and road links from Ethiopia to Indian Ocean

Jean-Philippe Rémy
Guardian Weekly, Tuesday 8 November 2011 13.58 GMT

kenya-somalia-rally-007.jpgKenyan demonstrators march in support of Kenya's military incursion inside Somalia. Photograph: Simon Maina/AFP/Getty Images

It is the middle of the night in Eastleigh, a district of Nairobi mainly occupied by the Somali community. Jamal Sharif has not slept for 48 hours, steadily chewing miraa stems, which contain a mild amphetamine that dispels fatigue and makes people talkative.

Sharif is terrified the rest of Kenya might "attack and kill" Somali residents, and even those of Somali extraction. Operation Linda Nchi (Protect the Nation), which Kenya launched in mid-October, is already yielding poisonous fruit.

The army sent about 2,000 men across the border into Somalia to combat Islamist al-Shabaab insurgents who control much of the south. Al-Shabaab has promised to respond with attacks inside Kenya, endangering the Somali community, particularly in poor areas where lynching is commonplace. There have been a number of attacks.

There is more to operation Linda Nchi than just an incursion by a powerful neighbour. Until now Kenya has supported the Somali transitional federal government, which is backed by Ugandan and Burundian troops belonging to the African Mission in Somalia (Amison), and the US, without becoming directly involved.

Under rules set by the Intergovernmental Authority on Development, formed by Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia, Sudan and Uganda, no other country is empowered to launch a military intervention in Somalia.

Several sources agree, however, that the Kenyan intervention plan was discussed and decided in 2010, then finalised with input from western partners, including the US and to a lesser extent France. Nairobi seems to have seized on kidnappings of foreign nationals by Somali groups on Kenyan territory as an excuse to launch an operation ready and waiting.

The final decision, taken precipitously, apparently surprised allies of Kenya, such as Ethiopia, which also has plans to intervene in Somalia. It is thought that both countries want to carve out zones of influence. Nairobi plans to set up a semi-autonomous region, Jubaland. A puppet government would be used to control resources and facilities, starting with Kismayo, a port used by smuggling networks with Kenyan links, according to a UN report published in July.

If the Kenyan army took control of Kismayo and established a satellite region in Jubaland, who would run it? The former Somali defence minister, a French-educated anthropologist, Mohamed Abdi Mohamed, seemed a good choice. In April he formed the Azania group, made up of Somali soldiers belonging to the Ogaden clan and trained by Nairobi at Isiolo in Kenya.

But plans for Azania have been cut down. Equipped by Nairobi with arms supplied by China, as revealed by WikiLeaks cables, Azania's 3,000-strong force did not live up to expectations in the field. Ethiopia also objected to an Ogadeni principality being established on its doorstep: Addis Ababa is already combating a rebellion led by the Ogaden National Liberation Front, which finds recruits among this clan. So the task of governing Kismayo will be allotted to other influential clans, primarily the Marehan, and the most powerful armed groups in the region, in particular the Ras Kamboni militia, former Islamist combatants who have been "turned round" to fight al-Shabaab.

However, if Kenya does capture Kismayo, another solution is now being considered. Amisom forces from Mogadishu could be deployed there, at which juncture Kenyan troops could join the ranks of the African Union force. This would also pave the way for a major infrastructure project in the region. Lamu, Kenya's traditional port, mainly used for luxury tourism until now, would be converted into an oil terminal, providing an outlet for the as yet unexploited oilfields of southern Sudan and northern Kenya. Radiating out from Lamu, a rail and road network would connect Ethiopia and Sudan to the Indian Ocean.

This scheme, which is still under study, would be supported by almost $10bn in Chinese investments. But it is obviously not compatible with a zone of insecurity maintained by al-Shabaab.

However, the advance by the Kenyan military is not going as well as hoped: it rained steadily for the first fortnight of the intervention and heavy vehicles were bogged down.

-The Guardian
 
...With regard to "chairman" Ngatia, this is someone who thinks that we'll lose the war because Africans/bantu's (i.e. people like you) are congenitally inferior to Somalis/cushites and that, to you, is a view worth considering just because it allows you to indulge in your favourite pastime (bashing Kenya)? Very weird!
No, that's not how I perceived this guy. I think this Mr. Ngatia has based himself more on the ineffectiveness of the whole Kenyan military machinery as well as the rampant corruption that has smeared the fabric of the Kenyan society (this could also be said of many other African countries, including Tanzania). While not agreeing with all that he says, I think he has some valid points worth listening to, despite the emotional frenzy that has currently gripped Kenyans due to this war.

Politicians are not always to be trusted, and especially African politicians.
 
No, that's not how I perceived this guy. I think this Mr. Ngatia has based himself more on the ineffectiveness of the whole Kenyan military machinery as well as the rampant corruption that has smeared the fabric of the Kenyan society (this could also be said of many other African countries, including Tanzania). While not agreeing with all that he says, I think he has some valid points worth listening to, despite the emotional frenzy that has currently gripped Kenyans due to this war.

And you are basing this opionion that the Kenyan military is ineffective on what exactly?
 
Al-Shabab unveil new unit!

marka3.jpg

archers and spearmen :lol:

true story, by the way!
 
Come on, be honest to yourself!

tell you what, i'll go and ask the SLDF...oops! Really though, what are you basing that opinion on. I mean, you don't expect us to just agree because people who hate Kenya say so.


just as I said to @Bantugbro, go read Phil Ashby on what feats of arms Kenyan soldiers performed in Sierra Leone...
 
Jeff Koinange hasn't come out against the war, he's just opined that KDF are untested and inexperienced and he has the right to that opinion. However, if you ask people like Major Phil Ashby who've actually seen the KDF in action in very difficult circumstances, they'll probably tell you that that's a load of rubbish. Go on, get the book and read his account for yourself...you'll see the prowess of KDF in relation to the other African soldiers who were there (Nigerian, Guinean, Zambian).

With regard to "chairman" Ngatia, this is someone who thinks that we'll lose the war because Africans/bantu's (i.e. people like you) are congenitally inferior to Somalis/cushites and that, to you, is a view worth considering just because it allows you to indulge in your favourite pastime (bashing Kenya)? Very weird!

You are entitled to your own opinion or even be mad at people who have different views from yours. However, remember here we present and discuss news clips or articles as they were reported by journalists.

He might sound controversial but chairman Ngatia pointed-out that tourist kidnappings are allowed to occur because Kenyan police are corrupt, he also said that this war is for the benefit of few corrupt politicians (even the Nairobi bombing was the work of the intelligence/GOK), the best way forward is to withdraw and defend your border.

Btw, i found this theory regarding the Nairobi bombing in Ethiopian forums, they say even their president Zenawi used similar tactics to gain popular support before invading Somalia.....

I also found in American forums a story about a collision of two Kenyan F-5 fighter jets in Somalia...
 
tell you what, i'll go and ask the SLDF...oops! Really though, what are you basing that opinion on. I mean, you don't expect us to just agree because people who hate Kenya say so.


just as I said to @Bantugbro, go read Phil Ashby on what feats of arms Kenyan soldiers performed in Sierra Leone...
Unfortunately, I do not need to base my conclusions on what Phil Ashby says (whoever this person is). It is not that I hate Kenya as such. I would have been critical to JWTZ too had they decided to venture into a war the way KDF did!
 
Ngoma ya Bwire haijaisha!

GRENADE BOMBER DISOWNS CONFESSION .

Wednesday, 09 November 2011 00:07
BY DOMINIC WABALA AND KAMORE MAINA

541368-536031.jpgIN JAIL: Elgiva Bwire Oliacha alias Mohamed Seif in court charged with possession of arms. Photo/Philip Kamakya

IN a bizarre twist the bomber who pleaded guilty to being a member of al Shabaab last month has now filed an appeal against his conviction. Elgiva Bwire Oliacha aka Mohammed Seif, 28, was sentenced to life imprisonment a day after his arrest in Kayole Estate, Nairobi, on October 27.

Thirteen hand grenades, six guns and 717 rounds of ammunition were found in his apartment. Bwire is suspected to have tossed two grenades into Mwaura's Bar on Mfungano Lane on October 24 and at a crowded bus stop next to former OTC on October 25. The grenades killed two people and injured over 20. Police claimed the grenades were Russian-made F1 similar to those used in the killing of two traffic police officers on Thika Road last December.

However Bwire was never cross-examined in court as he declined a lawyer and immediately pleaded guilty. He drafted his appeal with the assistance of other prisoners and the Kamiti prison welfare department. It was filed at the Milimani Law Court crime registry this week.

The appeal mentions seven grounds including the infringement and violation of his rights during arrest, trial and sentencing. “The appeal is mainly based on the infringement of constitutional rights as per Articles 25, 49 and 50 of the Kenyan constitution,” an inmate revealed at the courts yesterday afternoon.

Bwire says police arrested him on the street without informing him why and took him to his house where they found firearms that he now claims he had never seen. The appeal says he was sentenced within 72 hours of his arrest at the Anti Terrorism Police Unit headquarters and not in a court. Nairobi principal magistrate Grace Macharia, sentencing him, said the life sentence would be a deterrent.

Curiously Bwire looked calm and cheerful in court after the sentence. He smiled and posed for photographs in handcuffs. At the time he told journalists he would not appeal. Article 25 of the constitution states that fundamental rights shall not be limited by torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 49 states that any arrested person has the right to be informed promptly the reason for arrest, the right to remain silent, to communicate with a lawyer, and not to be compelled to make any confession or admission that could be used in evidence against him. Bwire was allegedly among 30 al Shabaab recruits who underwent weapons training in Somalia, according to police intelligence.

In a statement he gave to the police, Bwire said he travelled to Dobley in Somalia where he stayed for some time before being inducted into al Shabaab. He was then taken to Baidoa for militia training. In his statement he said he converted to Islam in 2005. He was brought up as a Catholic. He then concentrated on 'Jihad' inspired by an al Shabaab commander only identified as Abdilatif. Abdilatif is reportedly a Kenyan Somali currently engaged in war against Kenya Defence Forces.

In his statement, Bwire said he got Jihad literature from the Internet and Abdilatif. Bwire said he returned to Kenya in August 2011 through Mandera. From Somalia, he was paid US$300 by Abdilatif to rent the house in Kayole where the weapons were discovered. He said the weapons were paid for and delivered to him by a man sent by Abdilatif. He said he received a call from Abdilatif in August telling him to meet another man in Eastleigh who handed him the weapons.

Bwire told police he had recruited some Kenyan youths to al Shabaab. Bwire said he attempted to cross the border into Somalia in July 2009 but was arrested in Liboi and taken back to Nairobi. This incident is recorded in Garissa police station OB number 106 of July 26, 2009. His statement details his life story and how he ended up at Nyayo Stadium during Mashujaa Day. He told police that he had no plans of bombing thousands of Kenyans who thronged the venue.

Bwire was born on January 6, 1983, in Pumwani Nairobi and attended Tom Mboya Primary School and Busia Township Primary in Busia. He joined Pumwani secondary school in 1999 and moved to St Augustine’s Tongaren in Trans Nzoia in 2000. He enrolled for a diploma in Electrical Engineering at the Kenya Polytechnic in 2004 but never graduated.

-The Star
 
Kenya: Why Nation Should Pull Out of Somalia
Nairobi Star (Nairobi)
Irungu Kangata 8 November 2011


Kenya should withdraw its troops from Somalia forthwith and also withdraw its support for the Transitional Federal Government(TFG).This is because the pitfalls that exist against Kenya's engagement in the Somalia conflict outweigh any projected benefits.


Firstly, the war is illegal as it violates article 95 (6) of the Constitution which requires the National Assembly's approval of any declaration of war. The Government of Kenya publicly through the Ministers of Defence and Internal security declared war about three weeks ago in a press conference against Al Shabab.


No parliamentary approval was sought prior to that declaration despite article 95(6) of the Constitution implying that the declaration ought to be before the commencement of the war. Even if it was to be construed that the said article allowed an approval after the declaration , presently no such approval has been sought.


Granted,the matter was discussed recently in Parliament in camera but the discussion was centered on a ministerial statement and not a substantive motion debated and passed approving the war as it is required by Parliamentary standing orders. This means the current regime is flagrantly disrespecting the constitution. Kenyans are being made to bear the burden of retaliation by Al Shabaab for a war they were denied through their elected representatives opportunity to analyse its merits.


Secondly,the war is very costly. Pundits have estimated that it is costing Sh10,000 per day to keep every soldier in the war. The costs will run into billions of shillings as the war progresses. Other economic costs involved including the loss of business occasioned to the economy through fear of attacks by the Somnali insurgents.


One of the known reasons for the economic downturn of the United States economy was its involvement in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars in the 2000 decade. In contrast to this, during the same decade, China invested its money in infrastructure and it is now set to overtake US in Gross Domestic Product measure and in purchasing power parity by 2020 according to the International Monetary Fund world economic survey report.


Thirdly ,the reasons given to justify the war are weak. The governments says the operation follows the recent abduction of four Europeans-two at the Coast and two aid workers in refugee camps in North Eastern. Al Shabab has denied its involvement and there is no indication that the Kenyan soldiers are in hot pursuit of the abductors. This has now changed and the stated mission is to overthrow Al Shabaab-not to bring back the abductees.


No explanation has been given why the Government failed to act in similar fashion when hundreds of Kenyans were butchered by Ethiopian militia. The immediate Government response indicates the operation has been in the planning for several weeks if not months before the operation was mounted. That explains the TFG flip flopping on the operation.


Fourthly , the war may weaken instead of strengthen the TFG which is seen as a western imposition by the Somali people. Al Shabaab suffers the same perception though its foreign supporters are viewed by some Somali as being religious brethren. Political Islam is on the ascendancy across the world and thus If Somalia wants to take the route of political Islam which has taken ascendancy across the world by supporting Al Shabaab, Kenya cannot stop that shift.


Finally, the worst case scenario is unfathomable. A humiliated Kenya defeated by Al Shabaab,wasting millions of shillings in a long drawn out war involving other countries such as Eritrea which is suspected to be arming the insurgents.


Kenya should revert to its very good foreign policy -of non-interference,pragmatism ,good neighborliness and neutrality. Kenya should therefore continue with the same trend Somalia, pull out of Somalia, withdraw its support of TFG and negotiate with any group (Al Shabaab included ) to secure its border and increase surveillance of its borders.


Irungu Kangata is an advocate.

Source:
allAfrica.com: Kenya: Why Nation Should Pull Out of Somalia
 
WED, NOV 9 2011 @ 22:30 Hrs , NAIROBI, KENYA


AL SHABAAB PARADE IN STRONGHOLD

Al-Shabaab fighters have paraded in the streets of one of their strongholds on the Somali coast and vowed to repulse the Kenyan incursion. (Read: Al-Shabaab on the run in south zone)


The show of force in Marka town, 500 kilometres north of Kismayu, involved a display of speed boats mounted with machine guns with which they hope to face the Kenya Navy.


Also on display were the four-wheel pick-ups mounted with machine guns, known as technicals.


Residents of the town said they were asked to come out on the streets and beach to witness the parade.


Marka is about 100 kilometres south of the capital, Mogadishu, from where the rebels have been largely routed by African Union forces.


Using loud speakers on minibuses, the militants drove around calling on the inhabitants of Marka, the capital of Lower Shabelle region, to come out and watch a big military display.

READ MORE FROM SOURCE: Shabaab parade in stronghold*- News*|nation.co.ke
 
Kwani this topic has now migrated to this thread? Kenya and Tz will never go to war. In the unlikely event that they do, no undisciplined and unfit rag tag army with ill-maintained outdated equipment and no resources and financial backing is walking into Nairobi. KDF is not Uganda army circa 1978, an unruly band of cowardly thugs barely suitable for raiding chang'aa dens. To me Kenya and Tz are natural allies, even more so than Uganda and Kenya.
 
Enough of the "triumphalist" war reporting!

By Chai Barista

So Kenya is a country at war. AMISOM and the TFG have almost "cleared" Mogadishu of Al-Shabaab and Kenyan forces are currently conducting operations to "clear away the remnants" of AS in the areas they have "liberated". Here at CHC we are increasingly concerned about the rhetoric which suggests that AS are a splintered and spent force. We believe that history of insurgent conflicts around the world clearly demonstrates the difficulty in winning against a motivated insurgent force.

Frequently the British campaign in what was Malaya is cited as a successful counter insurgency operation. Less frequently is it identified that one of the reasons for success was that the insurgents were Chinese Malaysians who enjoyed very limited support from the local population. Far more significantly we can look at the French in what was French Indochina who were followed by the US (Vietnam) or the USSR in Afghanistan to the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan as stark reminders of the reality of prosecuting a counter-insurgency campaign against a motivated enemy.

There is a very real reason that the Taliban are being negotiated with - they are going to still be in Afghanistan when all of the foreign forces have left.

In Somalia the Mad Mullah Mahammad Abdille Hasan united the Dulbahante and Ogaden sub-clans in a fight against the British that lasted from 1899 to 1920. The genesis of AS was the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia at a time when there were indications of waning support for the more extreme elements of the ICU. So - why on earth do we continue to believe that the conflict in Somalia is going to be resolved by the intervention of yet another external actor? All of the evidence to date indicates that whilst clan conflict is a perennial issue, it is rapidly set aside in the event of an external enemy appearing.

Within Somalia and amongst Diaspora communities the mood is rapidly shifting to a split along quasi clan lines - Some Ogadeni and Majerteen happy with the creation of Jubaland/Azania and then all the rest of south/central Somalia building up a head of steam that will sooner or later focus against the Kenyan forces and their Somali proxies. Into this witches brew we then have Ethiopia increasingly foraying into Somalia in support of their proxies. All the time momentum is building which will see those who have not supported AS and do not share a common ideology, beginning to form a nationalist opposition against the invaders - in common cause with AS.

The Somalis have a long history of conflict - whether between themselves or against an outsider. They will be watching closely the advancing Kenyans and identifying the weaknesses while preparing to exploit them. When ready we expect the Somalis will again present the very hard nut that the Ethiopians with 40,000 troops in the country failed to crack.

Chai House Chatter
 
Back
Top Bottom