Kenya inaelekea pabaya...

[Ab-Titchaz]

I don't think Ocampo is such a threat to Kenyatta.
Neither is he to Bashir, Kagame,Museveni, Hisen Habre and the likes.
He is more of a threat to the types of Kony,Nkunda and Taylor (after losing power).
This beef, though surgically explained is more of a local thang than International. It's the same ol banana republic power struggle that is trying so hard to make front pages.
I wish things were different, but hey!

Please dont trivialise matters yet there are over 1,000 dead people and more than 150 thousand displaced
in IDP camps na wewe unasema eti its the same ol banana republic power struggle that is trying to make front
pages. Give this matter the seriousness it deserves and may the affected get some form of closure.

 

[Kobello]

Please dont trivialise matters yet there are over 1,000 dead people and more than 150 thousand displaced
in IDP camps na wewe unasema eti its the same ol banana republic power struggle that is trying to make front
pages. Give this matter the seriousness it deserves and may the affected get some form of closure.

With all due respect, that is just a fact.
Nobody owns facts. We only own opinions.
We have seen genocides in Africa, displacements, and even imprisonments that were and some still are sponsored by Western countries. Perpertuators in the likes of Uhuru, Bashir and others are not loosing their sleep thanks to the same IMF, WB, US (heard of AFRICOM?) and EU.
I am in no way condoning what happened to my brothers and sisters up north, but let's be realistic.
This is definately a charasteristic of a Nation that is troubled by tribalism. As long as Kenya is cool with the US especially through her military engagement in Somalia (the same way with Rwanda, Uganda,mali and Mauritania), the only eye that is going to scrutinize her internal affairs is the one that's blind.
I do understand your concerns, but this matter is just too local for International community (US,EU).

 

[Highlander]

Let me not stir the paint on this issue AB, I'd rather sit on the fence, sip my tusker and watch the newbies (who are extremely sharp I must add) square it out.

PS. The new constitution insulated the Jamhuri against this anti reformers, we had anticipated this (considering the powers that were fighting the new constitution) and concrete steps were taken to prevent the constitution from being tampered with by the people in power. Remember our civil societies are strong and vocal, such stunts would be met with demos and probably a revolution.. I know am just being optimistic, but we are patriots and will shed blood for this country.

napenda sana maelezo ya smatta. so calm and composed. Karibu morogoro smatta!

 

[Ndinani]

All these gimmicks that are taking place are designed to make it impossible for Raila to ascend to the presidency!! As things stand, the Gema alliance will do all it can including the repeat of post election mayheim just to preserve the status quo.Yes your heading is right, your country is heading to a dangerous unknown destination!!

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

The ICC has nominated the following Judges to hear the Kenya Case:

Judge Wyngaert (Belgium) – She's a 3-year veteran ICC Judge; and human rights expert.
http://www.icc-cpi.int/Menus/ICC/Structu....T+_Belgium_.htm

Judge Osuki (Japan) – She's a 2-year ICC Judge.
http://www.icc-cpi.int/menus/icc/structu....apan_?lan=en-GB

Judge Osuji (Nigeria) – new Judge; maiden case.
http://www.icc-cpi.int/menus/icc/structu....eria_?lan=en-GB

​

 

[Yo Yo]

Abi titchaz unasakama wakenya sana

 

[Kabaridi]

ICC is a toothless dog and is a scarecrow against installation of democratic governments in Africa

 

[Keil]

Abi titchaz unasakama wakenya sana

Anyway, I guess Ab-Titchaz anaipenda Kenya na anaogopa inakoelekea. Unajua baada ya Katiba Mpya, niliona kwamba sasa Kenya wanatoka kwenye kulindana na kuacha sheria zifanye kazi. Lakini huu mwendo wa Mzee Kibaki unanifanya niwe na woga kwa kiasi fulani kwamba huyu Mzee anataka kuhakikisha kwamba Reforms haziendi na baadaye iwe rahisi kuingiza timu anayoitaka yeye pale Ikulu ya Kenya.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

ICC is a toothless dog and is a scarecrow against installation of democratic governments in Africa

Either you are trying to be funny or you missed the bus by a mile!

If the ICC is a toothless dog, why are Uhuru and Ruto going up and down the country hosting the
so called prayer rallies? Why is Kibaki doing all this posturing to protect UK?

...Ask Charles Taylor, Bemba, Lubanga, Gbagbo...if the ICC is toothless and they will beg to differ.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

Anyway, I guess Ab-Titchaz anaipenda Kenya na anaogopa inakoelekea. Unajua baada ya Katiba Mpya, niliona kwamba sasa Kenya wanatoka kwenye kulindana na kuacha sheria zifanye kazi. Lakini huu mwendo wa Mzee Kibaki unanifanya niwe na woga kwa kiasi fulani kwamba huyu Mzee anataka kuhakikisha kwamba Reforms haziendi na baadaye iwe rahisi kuingiza timu anayoitaka yeye pale Ikulu ya Kenya.

Keil,

Za siku?

Nina mapenzi na hii nchi lakini hawa vigunge kama Mzee Kibaki wanataka kuizamisha nchi kwa
sababu zao za kibinafsi. The gains that have been made ( be they political, social or economic)
can be washed away by this selfish behind the scenes calculations which are aimed at protecting
the son of Kenya's first President. Lakini kama Smatta alivyosema hapo juu, there are many
forces of change and the civil society at large who wouldnt let that happen.

Afu pia tukumbuke kua, akili kama hizi ndizo zilizochangia kuleta ile seketa ya '07...yote kwa sababu
Kibaki alikua hataki kungatuka ikulu. Kuna wazee wengine wanatia kinyaa tu unapowataja!...huyu
Mzee Kubaka akiwa mmoja wao.

 

[Kabaridi]

Either you are trying to be funny or you missed the bus by a mile!

If the ICC is a toothless dog, why are Uhuru and Ruto going up and down the country hosting the
so called prayer rallies? Why is Kibaki doing all this posturing to protect UK?

...Ask Charles Taylor, Bemba, Lubanga, Gbagbo...if the ICC is toothless and they will beg to differ.

First before I comment let me assure you I do not support impunity or systemic extermination of people. But I do not deny the important role the ICC is playing, but they always take too long to do what they have to do. And PS, if you have sources tell me under which legal jurisdiction do they set prosecution and full trial dates since there is a tug-of-war between the Judiciary and the ICC. I am sorry I do not see their prosecution working. Too much schemes involved on both sides. It took almost three years to hear charles's taylor s case without a verdict given and the judges say they need 4 months to finally pass the verdict. Why does it have to take months before declaring anyone guilty?

Also do not forget that the ICC is eargely searching for political clout and they know which grounds to look it for (Africa), there have been many people who have committed war crimes, e.g Sudan president Bashir and currently we have not heard them utter Syrian presidents name Al assad.

If I am wrong why is this story appearing on the internet

CHARLES TAYLOR IS SET FREE BY ICC

http://www.network54.com/Forum/204096/thread/1299868721/1299950092/CHARLES+TAYLOR+IS+SET+FREE+BY+ICC

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/world/europe/12briefs-Netherlands.html?_r=1

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

First before I comment let me assure you I do not support impunity or systemic extermination of people. But I do not deny the important role the ICC is playing, but they always take too long to do what they have to do. And PS, if you have sources tell me under which legal jurisdiction do they set prosecution and full trial dates since there is a tug-of-war between the Judiciary and the ICC. I am sorry I do not see their prosecution working. Too much schemes involved on both sides. It took almost three years to hear charles's taylor s case without a verdict given and the judges say they need 4 months to finally pass the verdict. Why does it have to take months before declaring anyone guilty?

Also do not forget that the ICC is eargely searching for political clout and they know which grounds to look it for (Africa), there have been many people who have committed war crimes, e.g Sudan president Bashir and currently we have not heard them utter Syrian presidents name Al assad.

If I am wrong why is this story appearing on the internet

CHARLES TAYLOR IS SET FREE BY ICC

MISTERSEED.COM...............MESSAGE BOARD: CHARLES TAYLOR IS SET FREE BY ICC

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/world/europe/12briefs-Netherlands.html?_r=1

Mzalendo452,

Kwanza kabisa I appreciate your stand against impunity and appreciating the role of the ICC.

That said, I'm not discussing the pros or cons of the ICC in this given thread. People can argue all
the way to Kingdom come and never rich a consensus on that matter...depending on whether you
are the aggressor or the aggrieved. So I will not be dragged onto that pit for a fight.

Secondly, why are you trying hard to label yourself as a propagandist?...Hio title ya 'Charles Taylor
is set free by ICC' umetoa wapi?..That would be the trending topic in the world immediately it happens! Kwa
sasa Charles Taylor still remains a 'guest' at the Hague with all his freedoms curtailed. That is what
I was alluding to when I challenged your 'toothless dog' assertion. Mswahili husema 'Asifuye mvua imemnyea.'

The article ends thus:

"....If he is found guilty, he will serve his sentence in a British jail. The three international judges
are expected to take months before delivering their verdict. "

Emphasis on the red part. Where is the freedom you are talking about?...ama ni uvivu wa kusoma? Sometimes
when you engage please up your discourse to show positive purpose. Like I told another member in this same
thread Bantugbro has sent a message..si kila mdahalo humu ndani ufanywe ligi. So for you to ask me why it takes
the judges 4 months to declare a verdict begs me to pass. At your level as blogger you should know the answer.
If not, then google is a very good friend to many.

Finally, I would advise that you look at the inner workings of the ICC and how cases end up there. Si eti ICC
wenyewe wanaenda kutafuta kesi zao. Take Kenya's example and Waki's trigger mechanism after giving Kibaki
the envelope and the chants of the laughable yet comical Kenyan Parliamenterians shouting "Dont be vague, Go
to Hague"...That's how the great Jamhuri got there despite the Ocampo suspects running around in 'prayer rallies'
telling the gullible masses that the Prime Minister is colluding with Ocampo to prosecute them. Wanadhani ICC ni
mahakama ya Kibera ambayo wamezoea ku-manipulate?...Now go and find out how Bashir can end up there!

Kibaki better navigate this ship with the seriousness that it deserves otherwise the fallout will not be pretty!

I rest my case.

 

[Kabaridi]

Mzalendo452,

Kwanza kabisa I appreciate your stand against impunity and appreciating the role of the ICC.

That said, I'm not discussing the pros or cons of the ICC in this given thread. People can argue all
the way to Kingdom come and never rich a consensus on that matter...depending on whether you
are the aggressor or the aggrieved. So I will not be dragged onto that pit for a fight.

Secondly, why are you trying hard to label yourself as a propagandist?...Hio title ya 'Charles Taylor
is set free by ICC' umetoa wapi?..That would be the trending topic in the world immediately it happens! Kwa
sasa Charles Taylor still remains a 'guest' at the Hague with all his freedoms curtailed. That is what
I was alluding to when I challenged your 'toothless dog' assertion. Mswahili husema 'Asifuye mvua imemnyea.'

The article ends thus:

"....If he is found guilty, he will serve his sentence in a British jail. The three international judges
are expected to take months before delivering their verdict. "

Emphasis on the red part. Where is the freedom you are talking about?...ama ni uvivu wa kusoma? Sometimes
when you engage please up your discourse to show positive purpose. Like I told another member in this same
thread Bantugbro has sent a message..si kila mdahalo humu ndani ufanywe ligi. So for you to ask me why it takes
the judges 4 months to declare a verdict begs me to pass. At your level as blogger you should know the answer.
If not, then google is a very good friend to many.

Finally, I would advise that you look at the inner workings of the ICC and how cases end up there. Si eti ICC
wenyewe wanaenda kutafuta kesi zao. Take Kenya's example and Waki's trigger mechanism after giving Kibaki
the envelope and the chants of the laughable yet comical Kenyan Parliamenterians shouting "Dont be vague, Go
to Hague"...That's how the great Jamhuri got there despite the Ocampo suspects running around in 'prayer rallies'
telling the gullible masses that the Prime Minister is colluding with Ocampo to prosecute them. Wanadhani ICC ni
mahakama ya Kibera ambayo wamezoea ku-manipulate?...Now go and find out how Bashir can end up there!

Kibaki better navigate this ship with the seriousness that it deserves otherwise the fallout will not be pretty!

I rest my case.

Only this December will we know whether the ICC has teeth or not. What you have highlighted is true but I have commented on the ICC issue before here on this blog and I am saying as before there will be plenty to uncover from this case. I am not for Uhuru or Ruto, but we can call this case a massive one. It might take a decade to uncover you wait and see. And secondly the ICC is a monster and has met an equal monster in the name of paliamenterians, and this two monsters are hooked on propaganda . I do not deny they may have a case to hear and this is clearly seen in their reports on Statehouse nairobi was hosting Mungiki. The ICC is searching for political clout and is maligning the integrity of statehouse.

Now hii si ligi, lazima tuangalie vipengele vyote vinavyohusiana na historia ya ICC na ni wangapi wametiwa mbaroni baada ya kufanya makosa na kwa muda gani. We have to observe all those aspects much as is a welcomed process. Let us hope this is not a tool or another form of imperialism. Kuna mtazamo kuwa kesi zao zinaegemea sehemu za Africa particulraly ambapo Serikali zinendesha shughuli zao za siasa zikiwa huru from "western governments". or in short post white supremacy ideologies.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

...the ICC is a monster and has met an equal monster in the name of paliamenterians, and this two monsters are hooked on propaganda .

.....The ICC is searching for political clout and is maligning the integrity of statehouse.

......Kuna mtazamo kuwa kesi zao zinaegemea sehemu za Africa particulraly ambapo Serikali zinendesha shughuli zao za siasa zikiwa huru from "western governments". or in short post white supremacy ideologies.

Mzalendo425,

Now let us engage.

Those three pointers I have lighted above need more brushing up by you.

Kwanza how is ICC hooked on propaganda? How can you even imagine a law court 'hooked on propaganda'?
Courts adjudicate matters based on evidence and not propaganda.

Pili, how is the ICC looking for political clout in Kenya?...What are you talking about? Are the ICC judges coming
to run for office in Kenya? The integrity of the Kenyan Statehouse was compromised from way back when Kenyatta
was President. That is the same building that the murder of Kenyans has been planned and carried out by former
Presidents and it doesn't suprise me when I see these reports that Mungiki held meetings in Statehouse to plan
revenge attacks and saving their community...whatever that means. So hebu toa hio, lete nyengine.

The third point, is mainly from pessimists and propagandists. If you look at the ratification of the Statute that
led to the creation of the ICC a huge chunk of the African countries were signatories through their own will. Nobody
held a gun to their head and coerced them into signing it. Africa is not on trial at the ICC....corrupt-blood-thirsty-
strong-men are!

So whoever is selling that notion, Im not buying!

 

[Bukyanagandi]

Mzalendo425,

Now let us engage.

Those three pointers I have lighted above need more brushing up by you.

Kwanza how is ICC hooked on propaganda? How can you even imagine a law court 'hooked on propaganda'?
Courts adjudicate matters based on evidence and not propaganda.

Pili, how is the ICC looking for political clout in Kenya?...What are you talking about? Are the ICC judges coming
to run for office in Kenya? The integrity of the Kenyan Statehouse was compromised from way back when Kenyatta
was President. That is the same building that the murder of Kenyans has been planned and carried out by former
Presidents and it doesn't suprise me when I see these reports that Mungiki held meetings in Statehouse to plan
revenge attacks and saving their community...whatever that means. So hebu toa hio, lete nyengine.

The third point, is mainly from pessimists and propagandists. If you look at the ratification of the Statute that
led to the creation of the ICC a huge chunk of the African countries were signatories through their own will. Nobody
held a gun to their head and coerced them into signing it. Africa is not on trial at the ICC....corrupt-blood-thirsty-
strong-men are!

So whoever is selling that notion, Im not buying!

Some misguided Kenyans have an inflated view of their importance not only in East Africa, but also thinks they have a nerve of challenging ICC ruling. Don't kid yourselves fellas you can't kill and maim innocent civilians and expect to get away with it!

 

[livefire]

would jf last a week bila getting negative towards Kenya? Its true we got issues some grave but i have never seen Kenyans getting bothered with Tanzanian politics like what is shown here. ICC is not the best route but its happening, infact Kenyans need them to ensure politicians dont loose their minds again. Having said that can we get to wealth creation or meaningful discussion. Double edged sword it is, it ensures peace and security but with also the modern slavery face. Baby steps of a nation.

 

[Kabaridi]

would jf last a week bila getting negative towards Kenya? Its true we got issues some grave but i have never seen Kenyans getting bothered with Tanzanian politics like what is shown here. ICC is not the best route but its happening, infact Kenyans need them to ensure politicians dont loose their minds again. Having said that can we get to wealth creation or meaningful discussion. Double edged sword it is, it ensures peace and security but with also the modern slavery face. Baby steps of a nation.

@livefire I am not tanzanian FYI I am Kenyan.

 

[Kabaridi]

Mzalendo425,

Now let us engage.

Those three pointers I have lighted above need more brushing up by you.

Kwanza how is ICC hooked on propaganda? How can you even imagine a law court 'hooked on propaganda'?
Courts adjudicate matters based on evidence and not propaganda.

Pili, how is the ICC looking for political clout in Kenya?...What are you talking about? Are the ICC judges coming
to run for office in Kenya? The integrity of the Kenyan Statehouse was compromised from way back when Kenyatta
was President. That is the same building that the murder of Kenyans has been planned and carried out by former
Presidents and it doesn't suprise me when I see these reports that Mungiki held meetings in Statehouse to plan
revenge attacks and saving their community...whatever that means. So hebu toa hio, lete nyengine.

The third point, is mainly from pessimists and propagandists. If you look at the ratification of the Statute that
led to the creation of the ICC a huge chunk of the African countries were signatories through their own will. Nobody
held a gun to their head and coerced them into signing it. Africa is not on trial at the ICC....corrupt-blood-thirsty-
strong-men are!

So whoever is selling that notion, Im not buying!

Abitchaz, I will not hesitate @ the moment to hold and restrict my thoughts on ICC. Again I am not against the process but the problem is I have not seen any key prosecutors arrest any "Bigfish". When I see any Key Bigfish impounded irrespective of continent of origin, then I will applaude the process as workable. And as I said earlier I am not for leaders who use their offices to inflict systemic extermination on innocent pple.

Let us use the word superiority instead of political clout and there seems to be external pressure from ICC with its affiliated legal pressure groups worldwide to try to seek past cases from the Kenyan justice system understandably! The Kenyan justice system soverignty and freedom are being put to the test here and I do not see anything wrong with it.

When an arrest warrant was issued on Bashir while on tour in Kenya's constitutional promulgation, the ICC had all the mandate to capture him and why was all the responsibility given to kenya to arrest him given the nature of what had happened in 2007/08. Bashir has been to many contries since then, & why weren't others given the mandate to try to arrest him. That is why I said They seem to be a toothless dog like someone has just clearly stated this may be mordern slavery on the baby steps of a nation.

 

[livefire]

@livefire I am not tanzanian FYI I am Kenyan.

awk mate, am not on your case buh its obvious ICC is a failed court. However, in the Kenyan context they only serve as a deterrent to further bloodshed, though they are forcing leaders on us. Am not good at intl law so al borrow a leaf from silence.lol.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

would jf last a week bila getting negative towards Kenya? Its true we got issues some grave but i have never seen Kenyans getting bothered with Tanzanian politics like what is shown here. ICC is not the best route but its happening, infact Kenyans need them to ensure politicians dont loose their minds again. Having said that can we get to wealth creation or meaningful discussion. Double edged sword it is, it ensures peace and security but with also the modern slavery face. Baby steps of a nation.

Livewire,

Greetings to you wherever you are calling from.

I hope you are not claiming that this a negative thread on KE...I totally disagree.

Secondly, this is an international Forum where I know we have contributors form other countries
other than Tz or KE. If Kenyans dont get bothered with TZ politics then thats fine coz u know what?
Maybe there's nothing interesting o yap about. Kenya on the other hand has made these strides in oil
discovery and what not and we have every reason to deel happy for them...and 'talk about it too'.
Sasa ndugu yangu tatizo liko wapi hapo?

Ukitaka mambo ya wealth promotion and discussion of economics iko forum ina-deal na hizo ishu. Hapa
ni siasa tu and thats the way it goes.

Have a great day.

Ab-Titchaz.