Kenyans deported from Tanzania encounter difficult times

[Al-Watan]

Hehe Kijana kweli umesoma. Wewe tu ndio Mtanzania nakuvulia kofia. Najua hupendi nationalism but it is a fact of life

To be sure, nationalism is not all bad. It can be used for the greater good,to mobilize a people towards a positive common good for example.

It's just that when it is used for petty squabbles, it is even more effective in its deadliness.

 

[KichwaNgumu254]

On the flip side, a good number of Tanzanians are wary of Kenyans in the age old sense of "these guys are encroaching on our land/jobs/women etc" which is petty and parochial for someone who has traveled the world and live in the US . But to locals, it is their worldview.

I have perspective on how the US used immigration to its advantage. I was listening to the BBC World Service today, they had an episode describing a very complicated surgery procedure, essentially the surgery was to remove a tumor that was growing on an unborn child. There were only four hospitals that have a record of having done this successfully in the entire USA.

They went to one of these hospitals, the leading doctor who was directing a team of surgeons on this mission was a Nigerian Dr. That reminded me of another Nigerian doctor, Bennet Omalu of the movie "Concussion" fame the guy who basically presented solid evidence that football causes, and eventually got the operation done. This made me think, all these Nigerian doctors are probably trained in Nigeria for years, then the Americans just take them at the peak of their careers.

Granted, not every Kenyan immigrant is a rock star neurosurgeon, but still,if someone has married a Tanzanian citizen and get citizenship, starts a family etc, it is just cruel to uproot him.

As a Tanzanian immigrant abroad, I can see the injustice in that. This could very easily lead to retaliatory moves and we don't want that.

I am thankful that where I am, to a good extent, people are more open about immigration and there is a good number of immigrants from everywhere. Frankly that makes the place more diverse and vibrant.

As long as people immigrate legally into Tanzania, they should have the full protection of the law.

My worry is that, it is quite conceivable that agents of the law are the very people harassing immigrants.

You sound as the very cog that Tz is currently missing to drive their internal policies on immigration! If the leadership is playing to the public gallery of largely misinformed citizenry then it backtracks the very essence of EAC's common market and legal free movement of human resources and skills. Our best brains as exemplified by the Nigerian docs you cited are fleeing in droves yet we need them the most! Embracing diversity can stem that brain-drain and concoct this region to an economic miracle the world has ever seen. We all have what it takes!

 

[Al-Watan]

You sound as the very cog that Tz is currently missing to drive their internal policies on immigration! If the leadership is playing to the public gallery of largely misinformed citizenry then it backtracks the very essence of EAC's common market and legal free movement of human resources and skills. Our best brains as exemplified by the Nigerian docs you cited are fleeing in droves yet we need them the most! Embracing diversity can stem that brain-drain and concoct this region to an economic miracle the world has ever seen. We all have what it takes!

I hope I can be excused for not wanting to be in Tanzania currently. Moreover, having decided to permanently emigrate to the US about two decades ago (mind you,not go to college and come back to Tanzania or make money and come back, permanently emigrate), if the current trend is to prevail, I will not dream of going back to Tanzania even for holiday anytime in the near future.

Why?

First thing first the government sees Tanzanians in general and the diaspora in particular as "source of income". I find this insulting and oppressive. If you want to buy a car for someone in Tanzania and send it there as a gift,chances are,if that person is not of means,you might very well have to buy the car twice, due to the ridiculous taxes. In some cases the taxes will be more than what you paid for the car.

On top of that, however talented the Young Turks coming back from diaspora prove to be, the tide is geared towards fixing them to go with the local flow,not give them a chance to inject new ideas into our current state of affairs in governance. The catchphrase nowadays is to do things by "amri kutoka juu", regardless of how nonsensical the orders prove to be.

Having led global projects in environments where brutal outspokenness and contrarian views are not only traits that are tolerated,but also actively solicited, I wouldn't be able to function in Tanzania without adopting a very hypocritical existence.

I was talking to a cousin over the weekend. His father is very highly placed. I am talking cabinet member in a very influential position. I wanted to get some inside coup that you only get at dinner tables but not from the press because those who know do not talk to the press about these matters. So I asked him, how come Tanzania is not represented at Davos? The foreign minister says he was otherwise engaged with AU meetings, the invitation is not transferable, the question is, why wasn't the president invited in the first place? Having seen too much for too long from a vantage point that is too highly placed, his answer was very telling in its equanimity and detachment.

He toldme flatly that he was not interested in Tanzanian politics, he is perfectly happy existing in his bubble in ughaibuni. As long as hiskid and wife are fine, he doesn't even bother with Tanzanian politics. He was only interested in my family life, is everybody doing fine?

And I thought I was bad.

Another cousin had returned to work at the Vice Presidents office back in the 90's,hoping to contribute a lot in modernization. What he found was shameful.

The fear on most part of Tanzanians is not all ridiculous though, there are realpolitik issues to be addresed, land,jobs, trade etc. Thin ice to navigate. I get that. We need people with capable talents to navigate these matters.I understand that we can't just say we are all one and integrate everything without consequence. I get that.

What I don't get is this black on black xenophobia and uprooting of naturalized Tanzanians from Kenya.

It almost makes me want to question the legitimacy of the story. Tanzanians, even in their worst character, have been able to maintain some semblance of decency.

This calcification of new wave of depravity is a foreign trend to me.

 

[joto la jiwe]

You are among the few enlightened Tanzanians on JF. Your brothers on here are full of themselves forgetting that the world is interdependent. Their lack of exposure or alternative comparisons blinds their focus if any.

Mngejua hivyo kwamba dunia tunategemeana msingejifungia kimya na kukataa kuwasaidia waafrika wenzetu waliokuwa chini ya mateso ya wakoloni weupe wakati wa mapambano ya kulikomboa bara la Africa, mliamua kutoshiriki kabisa vita vya ukombozi, mkawa busy kujenga uchumi wenu, leo ndiyo mnajifanya kuhubirishi ushirikiano, hatutaki kusikia maneno yenu hayo, ninyi sio watu wazuri.

 

[KichwaNgumu254]

I hope I can be excused for not wanting to be in Tanzania currently. Moreover, having decided to permanently emigrate to the US about two decades ago, if the current trend is to prevail, I will not dream of going back to Tanzania even for holiday anytime in the near future.

Why?

However talented the Young Turks coming back from diaspora prove to be, the tide is geared towards fixing them to go with the local flow,not give them a chance to inject new ideas into our current state of affairs in governance. The catchphrase nowadays is to do things by "amri kutoka juu", regardless of how nonsensical the orders prove to be.

Having led global projects in environments where brutal outspokenness and contrarian views are not only traits that are tolerated,but also actively solicited, I wouldn't be able to function in Tanzania without adopting a very hypocritical existence.

I was talking to a cousin over the weekend. His father is very highly placed. I am talking cabinet member in a very influential position. I wanted to get some inside coup that you only get at dinner tables but not from the press because those who know do not talk to the press about these matters. So I asked him, how come Tanzania is not represented at Davos? The foreign minister says he was otherwise engaged with AU meetings, the invitation is not transferable, the question is, why wasn't the president invited in the first place? Having seen too much for too long from a vantage point that is too highly placed, his answer was very telling in its equanimity and detachment.

He toldme flatly that he was not interested in Tanzanian politics, he is perfectly happy existing in his bubble in ughaibuni. As long as hiskid and wife are fine, he doesn't even bother with Tanzanian politics. He was only interested in my family life, is everybody doing fine?

And I thought I was bad.

Another cousin had returned to work at the Vice Presidents office back in the 90's,hoping to contribute a lot in modernization. What he found was shameful.

The fear on most part of Tanzanians is not all ridiculous though, there are realpolitik issues to be addresed, land,jobs, trade etc. Thin ice to navigate. I get that. We need people with capable talents to navigate these matters.I understand that we can't just say we are all one and integrate everything without consequence. I get that.

What I don't get is this black on black xenophobia and uprooting of naturalized Tanzanians from Kenya.

It almost makes me want to question the legitimacy of the story. Tanzanians, even in their worst character, have been able to maintain some semblance of decency.

This calcification of new wave of depravity is a foreign trend to me.

Quite an insight and a refreshing view point light-years from what accosts us daily on JF! You see,solutions to our problems is right within us,homegrown. But without the will power from the elected/appointed leaders on tax-payers maintenance no forging ahead no matter the pangs of patriotism.

That's why it's imperative for us back in the grassroots to sensitize our people that it all starts with us before any government's intervention. We can acquire the best expertise money can buy and experience from the west but if the very governments that we're supposedly out to boost aren't receptive then no option but to stay holed up in our comfort zones wherever we are!

 

[Tony254]

I hope I can be excused for not wanting to be in Tanzania currently. Moreover, having decided to permanently emigrate to the US about two decades ago (mind you,not go to college and come back to Tanzania or make money and come back, permanently emigrate), if the current trend is to prevail, I will not dream of going back to Tanzania even for holiday anytime in the near future.

Why?

First thing first the government sees Tanzanians in general and the diaspora in particular as "source of income". I find this insulting and oppressive. If you want to buy a car for someone in Tanzania and send it there as a gift,chances are,if that person is not of means,you might very well have to buy the car twice, due to the ridiculous taxes. In some cases the taxes will be more than what you paid for the car.

On top of that, however talented the Young Turks coming back from diaspora prove to be, the tide is geared towards fixing them to go with the local flow,not give them a chance to inject new ideas into our current state of affairs in governance. The catchphrase nowadays is to do things by "amri kutoka juu", regardless of how nonsensical the orders prove to be.

Having led global projects in environments where brutal outspokenness and contrarian views are not only traits that are tolerated,but also actively solicited, I wouldn't be able to function in Tanzania without adopting a very hypocritical existence.

I was talking to a cousin over the weekend. His father is very highly placed. I am talking cabinet member in a very influential position. I wanted to get some inside coup that you only get at dinner tables but not from the press because those who know do not talk to the press about these matters. So I asked him, how come Tanzania is not represented at Davos? The foreign minister says he was otherwise engaged with AU meetings, the invitation is not transferable, the question is, why wasn't the president invited in the first place? Having seen too much for too long from a vantage point that is too highly placed, his answer was very telling in its equanimity and detachment.

He toldme flatly that he was not interested in Tanzanian politics, he is perfectly happy existing in his bubble in ughaibuni. As long as hiskid and wife are fine, he doesn't even bother with Tanzanian politics. He was only interested in my family life, is everybody doing fine?

And I thought I was bad.

Another cousin had returned to work at the Vice Presidents office back in the 90's,hoping to contribute a lot in modernization. What he found was shameful.

The fear on most part of Tanzanians is not all ridiculous though, there are realpolitik issues to be addresed, land,jobs, trade etc. Thin ice to navigate. I get that. We need people with capable talents to navigate these matters.I understand that we can't just say we are all one and integrate everything without consequence. I get that.

What I don't get is this black on black xenophobia and uprooting of naturalized Tanzanians from Kenya.

It almost makes me want to question the legitimacy of the story. Tanzanians, even in their worst character, have been able to maintain some semblance of decency.

This calcification of new wave of depravity is a foreign trend to me.

Well said. Congratulations for your success. I hope your country men will not attack you ruthlessly. The don't like hearing such things.

 

[Al-Watan]

Quite an insight and a refreshing view point light-years from what accosts us daily on JF! You see,solutions to our problems is right within us,homegrown. But without the will power from the elected/appointed leaders on tax-payers maintenance no forging ahead no matter the pangs of patriotism.

That's why it's imperative for us back in the grassroots to sensitize our people that it all starts with us before any government's intervention. We can acquire the best expertise money can buy and experience from the west but if the very governments that we're supposedly out to boost aren't receptive then no option but to stay holed up in our comfort zones wherever we are!

The trouble is, currently, a malaise in governance is entrenched so deeply under the facade of the Magufuli reform.

Magufuli is a myopic tyrant whose one trick pony circus act seems to be geared towards capturing the imagination and admiration of the hoi polloi without doing anything substantive on a par with the potential of the country.

So it is government by diva like antics and high wire acts of low quality logic. Endless oppression of civil servants in the name of civil service reform,granted, some much needed,but the constitutional overreached makes even the good in the reform stink like a shroud covering a dead body.

You see,Magufuliis the sort of fellow who would start on a perfectly reasonable initiative - take weeding out "ghost" government workers for example -and bend the implementation so bad that the outcome is hardly recognizable as part of what set out to be a compassionate government fighting for the people.

Couple that with the hagiography on the lips of the clueless half the population, plus those in the know who decides to kow-tow in a loyalty payola like system.

It is a wonder this country is functioning at all.

Granted, I understand the grass is always green on the other side, Kenya probably has its own lot of problems with bad leadership, but our current formation of a cult of personality is really alarming. Worse still, this is being copied at lower levels where you have mini Magufulis allover the place. They are using the Pabvlo Escobar playbook straight out of "Narcos", plata o plomo. Silver or lead. Money or the bullet.

Tundu Lissu got bullets. There are a couple of constituencies having special elections because the opposition MPs were bought by CCM.

The more you know, the more it is nauseating. No wonder my cousin says he is not interested in Tanzanian politics.

 

[Al-Watan]

Well said. Congratulations for your success. I hope your country men will not attack you ruthlessly. The don't like hearing such things.

I am a battle scarred shogun, I bring a sawed shotgun.
A pugilist who is proven in this
When I side with facts, a protracted counter attack with a musk is a must.

Napiga vita ujinga wowote popote, sijali kamani wa Kitanzania, Kikenya au wa kighaibuni.

After all nationalism is an infantile disease.

Any Tanzanian hell bent on nationalism should watch Mwalimu Nyerere's remarks in the Parliament of South Africa.

 

[TEMLO DA VINCA]

Wenye roho mbaya ni viongozi wenu waliowanyang'anya ardhi wananchi wa kawaida na iliyobaki wakawapa wazungu, matokeo yake mnakimbilia Tanzania, tutaendelea kuwarudisha ili mkavamie mashamba yenu toka mikononi mwa Kenyatta familly.

Majinga yanaishi ka mapangaji kwenye nchi yao ...dawa ni kufukuza tuu...kwanzA c wanasema wao ni middle income saa wanang'ang'ania nn kwa sie maskini ...wakwendeeeeee maninaaa

 

[TEMLO DA VINCA]

Now you think all that what you did is the height of ingenuity? Far from it,it's the height of lunacy to say the least. When dealing with a toddler as an adult,one has to bear the tantrums knowing that they're only seeking attention. Kenya is the adult in the room. Keep on with your tantrums!

Idiot

 

[TEMLO DA VINCA]

Huwa wanawalimia mkiwa wapi? Kenyans are only filling a gap that you lazy bones cannot fill or unable to.

Mmeshindwa fill ur gaps ndio mje mjazilizie yetu????...na baada ya siku saba tusilaumiane...tena hapo tumetumia diplomacy tuu maana yapo illegaly na yalitakiwa yawe yashakamatwa huruma tuu tumewaonea ili ndani ya siku saba muwe mmepoteaa madogo sawaaaa

 

[TEMLO DA VINCA]

Zero brain! Ndugu zenu tunafanya nao biashara huku Kenya na wala hutasikia mkenya akilialia eti watz wanawanyang'anya kazi zao! Apo hata sijaongea kuhusu omba omba wa kitz, na sura zao za huruma, wanaotuchafulia miji yetu huku Kenya.

Tulishawambia muwarudishe home ka wanachafua middle income yenu..mbona hamwafukuzi

 

[Mkomavu]

James Chacha. Kutoka Sakuri, Kuria East. Kwa experience yangu mtz mwenyewe ukabila kama wewe, kawaida yake huwa ni mtz mshamba kupindukia. Ila roho mbaya na wivu mlibarikiwa nazo nyote, bila upendeleo. Itakuwa ulikula overdose ya samaki ntwara wewe.

Kuna mtz anayemzidi mkenya kwa roho mbaya na majungu???

 

[TEMLO DA VINCA]

Hakuna tofauti na ile xenophobia inayofanyika SA. Kilichobaki sasa ni waanza kuchoma watu manake hii xenophobia imeingia kwa national psyche.. Kwa media wanajifanya wanatimiza sheria lakini on the ground wakikutana na mkenya hawataki kujua una Kibali au la

Ndio mjiulize y hii ni kwenu kenyans wala cio waganda...tatzo lenu tukiwafanyia fair mnatuita shamba la bibi ...wajinga nyie na bado lazma mtafata utaratibu mambo ya kuingia na kufanya mambo yenu tz ka mnaingia toi yashaishaa