Kwa nini tuwaombee waliokufa?

N. simzungumzii yule mungu wa sodoma na gomora(wa agano la kale), bali namzungumzia yule aliye sirini Mungu mkuu mwenye upendo na huruma...
Kwahiyo Mungu amebadilika eeh? Tunaomba hiyo version yake Mpya mkuu
 
kuwaombea dua waliokufa inaruhusiwa...but kuwaomba msaada wowote kwa waliokufa ni ushirikina na dhambi kwa muumba...kwa yeye pekee ndio wa kumueleza matatizo yetu yotee
Sijaelewa hapa mkuu maana kama ukifa unaombewa unakwenda mahala pazuri basi kufuata maelekezo ya Mungu ukiwa hai ni useless na kwa kauli hiyo kuzimu hakuna MTU hata mmoja wote wapo paradiso maana wote wanaokufaa wanaombewa. Kuna redio moja wanakipindi cha kuombea wafu daah watu wanaomba sana. Ila reality ni kuwa baada ya kifo ni hukumu sio maombi
 
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kuwaombea dua waliokufa inaruhusiwa...but kuwaomba msaada wowote kwa waliokufa ni ushirikina na dhambi kwa muumba...kwa yeye pekee ndio wa kumueleza matatizo yetu yotee

Kama kutubu dhambi na kutengeneza njia za kumpendeza MUNGU ni hapa duniani,na mtu akishakufa hajafanya hayo ni kweli waweza kumuombea na MUNGU akasikiliza maombi yako na kutenda juu yake?late say unamuombea rehema ilihali alikufa akiwa mdhambi,hii ni imani inatoka wapi na tunaamini nini kua huko alilo ktk mauti yupo wapi,anafanya nini,atasamehewa dhambi kwa maombi ya huku duniani kwa walio hai dhidi yake wakimuombea?mbona kama na hili nalo ni ukakasi..
 
hapo ndipo waumini wanapondanganyana na kukesha makaburini wakipalilia na kuomba.
 



Nimerudi

Namba 3.
Kuwaombea wafu/marehemu Biblical cjawah ona ANDIKO linalokataza waamin wasi WAOMBEE wafu, I stand to be corrected,kama kuna MTU ana verse inayokataza directly ashushe hapa. BT nishasoma verse inayokataza "KUWAOMBA WAFU"

Kuna tofaut kati ya "kuwaomba" na "kuwaombea"

Sasa turud kuwaombea marehemu,

Katka kusoma nimegundua kuombea wafu ni tamaduni ya wayahudi( Google Praying for the dead in Judaism) pia Kwa baadhi ya Wakristo wanayo hyo tumaduni hasa hasa Catholics, Anglicans,Methodist,pia Luther naye ktk baadhi ya maandko yake aliandka prayer ya kuwaombea watoto waliofark ingawa badae alifuta hiz mambo ktk kanisa lake.

Tofauti na Kitabu cha pili cha Wamakabayo,pia kuna hii verse ambayo Bible scholars wanaitafsir kuwa Onesiphori Alikua amefark, emu isome.....

Prayer for the dead

New Testament
A passage in the New Testament which may refer to a prayer for the dead is found in 2 Timothy 1:16-18, which reads as follows:

"May the Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain, but when he was in Rome, he sought me diligently, and found me (the Lord grant to him to find the Lord's mercy on that day); and in how many things he served at Ephesus, you know very well."

As with the verses from 2 Maccabees, these verses refer to prayers that will help the deceased "on that day" (perhaps Judgement Day, see also end times). It is not stated that Onesiphorus, for whom Saint Paul prayed, was dead, though some scholars infer this, based on the way Paul only refers to him in the past tense, and prays for present blessings on his household, but for him only "on that day". And towards the end of the same letter, in 2 Timothy 4:19, Paul sends greetings to "Prisca and Aquila, and the house of Onesiphorus", distinguishing the situation of Onesiphorus from that of the still living Prisca and Aquila.


Mytake
Sala za waamin huenda znasaidia sana hasa Kwa wale waliokufa katka hali ya NEEMA hata pia ktk madhehebu yanayoombea marehemu wanatanguliza hilo neno,waliokufa ktk hali ya Neema.

Hasa inakua na umhimu zaid kulingana na kanisa,kuna kitu kinaitwa communion of saints (hii inajumuisha wazima na marehemu) huu ni mwili mmoja ktk Kristo


Pia kuna hii situation

Marehemu K alikua mkristo Mwema ila pindi anapatwa na mauti let's say ajar,hakuwa ametubu dhambi fulan say z,bt Maisha yake yalikua masafi bt kafa hajatubu dhambi z, na tunasoma kwamba hakuna kichafu chochote kitakachoingia mbinguni,je huyu marehemu K ataenda wapi?
Mbinguni? Au Jehanamu ? Au ndo itabd apitie purification inayoitwa Purgutory in Catholics ? Au aombewe na waamin?


Nitaendelea...
 
W here is pagatory in the bible?
 
W here is pagatory in the bible?


Mkuu hili ni fundisho hasa la kanisa Katoliki, nmejaribu kupitia maelezo yao inaweza toa mwanga wa existance ya Purgutory/Toharani

Fuatana nami apa
Toharani/Purgutory
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

All who die in God’s grace, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

Hii ndo ile state kuwa mtu ni mkristo mzuri ila kafariki huku akiwa ana dhambi fulani fulan amabazo hajaztubu, so ndo wanasema (still imperfectly purified) bt amekufa akiwa ktk hali ya neema.

katika agano jipya kuna hiz verses ambozo ntaomba tuztafakari taratibu.

I Corinthians 3:11-15
11 Hakuna mtu awezaye kuweka msingi mwingine badala ya ule uliokwisha wekwa, yaani Yesu Kristo. 12 Juu ya msingi huo mtu anaweza kujenga kwa dhahabu, fedha au mawe ya thamani; anaweza kutumia miti, majani au nyasi. 13 Iwe iwavyo, ubora wa kazi ya kila mmoja utaonekana wakati Siku ile ya Kristo itakapoifichua. Maana, Siku hiyo itatokea na moto, na huo moto utaipima na kuonyesha ubora wake. 14 Ikiwa alichojenga mtu juu ya huo msingi kitaustahimili huo moto, atapokea tuzo; 15 lakini kama alichojenga kitaunguzwa, basi, atapoteza tuzo lake; lakini yeye mwenyewe ataokolewa kana kwamba ameponyoka kutoka motoni.

Emu tufikilie hiz verse znazungumzia nn?
maana inasema kaz ztapimwa kwa moto kuonyesha ubora, kuna amboa kaz zao ztastahimili wao watapokea tuzo,
kuna ambao kazi zao haztastahimili, ztaunguzwa so atapoteza tuzo lakini yeye mwenyewwe ataokolewa kwa moto

katika Biblia moto pia unatumika kutakasa(Purifying agent) so swali la kujiuliza huu utakaso upo before death or after death? Jibu kabisa ni after death, soma hii verse ya 13 uone " Iwe iwavyo, ubora wa kazi ya kila mmoja utaonekana wakati Siku ile ya Kristo itakapoifichua. Maana, Siku hiyo itatokea na moto, na huo moto utaipima na kuonyesha ubora wake."
so swali jingine where is that place?

Emu soma na hii verse
I Peter 3:19
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits.

kwahyo kumbe kuna gereza huko??? maana hzo spirit hazpo jehanamu ya moto bt zpo somewhere St.Peter named it prison. ----endelea kufikilia


Soma na hapa
Matayo 5:25-26
25 “Mtu akikushtaki, patana naye kabla hamjafika mahaka mani; ili mshtaki wako asije akakukabidhi kwa hakimu, na hakimu akamwamuru askari akufunge gerezani; 26 nami nawaambia hakika, hutatoka huko mpaka deni lako lote litakapolipwa.”

hii ni parable, sawa inatumika sasa katika ulimwengu huu, ila pia ukitanua fikra ukaona hapa hakimu ni Mungu,unaweza pata picha kabisa kuwa mtu hataingia mbinguni hadi alipe deni lake lote.
Huyu mtu yupo gerezani inawezekana ikawa ni apa dunian ila pia fikiri hyo prison anayoisema Petro hapa (1 Petro 3:19)

so tunaweza sema kuwa mtu hataingia mbinguni had alipe den yake, alipie dhambi alizotenda, apitie utakaso.

ila tena tusome hapa ndo pana tanua zaid fikra


Matayo 12:32
32 “Na mtu atakayesema neno kumpinga Mwana wa Adamu ata samehewa, lakini ye yote atakayempinga Roho Mtakatifu hatasame hewa, katika ulimwengu huu wala katika ulimwengu ujao.”

Tunaona juu ya msamaha wa dhambi anaoutoa Yesu
ila hapa kwa maneno ya Yesu mwenyewe anaainisha misamaha katka ulimwengu huu na ulimwengu ujao
swal la kujiuliza huo ulimwengu ujao ni upi? kama ukifa unahukumiwa kwenda mbinguni au jehanamu sasa kwann tena kuna msamaha katka huo ulimwengu ujao?

Kwahyo baada ya kifo kuna tena msamaha, i stand to be corrected maana cjasomea theologia ila ni fkra tu apa huo ulimwengu ujao kwann tena tusamehewe na huku baada ya kifo ni hukumu?

so from these clarifications tunaona kabisa kuna PRISON ambayo roho za marehemu ztawekwa kupimwa kazi zao kama znastahili tuzo au kuokolewa tu kwa moto bila tuzo, so katka that prison mtu ana undergo purifications,analipia madeni yake nashawishka kuamin huko ndiko TOHARAN/Purgatory

Tuendelee kutafakari.....
 
Mkutano wa NICEA kanisa lilikuwa moja tu?
Kwann kila mtu ana juhudi ya kudanganya akitaka akubarike?
Jifunze tena makanisa mangapi yalikuwapo mkutanoni?
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Mkutano wa NICEA kanisa lilikuwa moja tu?
Kwann kila mtu ana juhudi ya kudanganya akitaka akubarike?
Jifunze tena makanisa mangapi yalikuwapo mkutanoni?

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app
Yalikuwa makanisa mangapi vile....karne ya nne....wewe ni mji.nga. Hujui hata hiyo conference ya NECEA ilifanyika lini. karne ya nne makanisa yalikuwa mangapi?
 
Vp
Vipi suala lakuwafanyia usafi sehemu za makaburini?lile ni tendo la ibada ama?
 
Unasema M/MUNGU hayupo
Je? Wewe upo
Na upo wapi? Kwa mujibu wa Nani!?
 
Whats your point?

Mjinga hatukanwi ana elimishwa.

So lilikuwa Roman peke yake?

Ilihali before constantine wakristu walikuwa wakiuawa....

Akalazimishe wote waingie Roman.

Yesu amasema shetani anapanda magugu ambayo ni imani ya Roman inayofanana na ya Yesu wa kweli...
Yalikuwa makanisa mangapi vile....karne ya nne....wewe ni mji.nga. Hujui hata hiyo conference ya NECEA ilifanyika lini. karne ya nne makanisa yalikuwa mangapi?
 
Mtu aliyekufa akiwa anamuamini yesu ataishi milele(hatakufa anaendelea kuishi na kunena kama habili)
 
= mara
 
Waliokufa roho inarudi ilipotoka, kwa kuwa Mungu ni roho, wana uwezo wa kuonana na Mungu ili kutuombea sisi tuliobaki duniani.
 
Mfalme Sauli yalipomfika shingoni akaenda kwa mganga(kwenye mizimu)ili amuite Nabii wa Mungu Samweli ambaye alikuwa kashakufa kitambo ili Samweli amuombee msamaha kwa Mungu maana Mungu aliziba masikio yake hakutaka kusikia maombi ya Mfalme Sauli.
Marehemu Samweli aliitwa na roho yake ikaitika akaongea na mfalme Sauli akampasha yale ambayo Mungu amepanga kuyafanya juu yake na juu ya taifa la Israel. Kwahiyo tunaposema ukifa huna umuhimu tena tuwe makini kidogo tusijekuwa tunapumbazwa ili kupoteza kilichochetu.
 
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