Majeshi yetu Comoro: Who is responsible?

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Icadon said:
Wafaransa wanasaidia transportation na logistics, role ya South Africans ni ipi?
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true kuna tigers wengine wa afrika kama hao south africa,egypt,nigeria ets...kuna angola,botswana ets...hata kama hawatoi askari wangetoa pesa na vifaa....mimi sio kwamba sipendi vijana wetu wajifue..tatizo nataka kujua tunapata wapi hiyo pesa na ni kiasi gani????..tutaendelea kusaidia kupigana bila shukrani hadi lini...wakati tunapigana vita za ukombozi na vita ya kagera hadi leo hatuja recover...tunapata wapi pesa leo....

ndio maana nasisitiza anayetaka huduma za jeshi letu agharamie kila kitu,,,,..sio kodi yetu tafadhali!
 

PM, kwa jinsi nilivyoelewa AU contact group(Libya, Senegal, South Africa, Sudan and Tanzania.) ndio wanaoshiriki kwenye hili swala la Comoro.

-Libya wanasafirisha wanajeshi wa Senegal na Sudan na logistical support.
-Senegal wanatoa wanajeshi 600
-South Africa sijui mchango wao ni hupi?
-Sudan wanatoa wanajeshi 500
-Tanzania wanatoa wanajeshi 700(Ufaranasa imejitolea kusafirisha wanajeshi wetu).
 
I couldn't agree with you more; you are right on the money . Wanabodi we must push for constitution amendment as soon as possible . Jamani hii constitution imempa Rais madaraka makubwa sana kwa hiyo ni lazima tuyapunguze .
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Strong argument mkuu, I am down.
 

Si imeshaelezwa wazi kwamba mbeki hasapoti hii operation. ila sisi tunasapoti sijui kipi kimetusukuma katika maamuzi haya,na sijui ni kipi kimewasukuma sauzi afrika kufikia maamuzi yao, ila hoja hapa ni je maamuzi tuliyofikia ni ya lazima je kulikuwa hakuna njia mbadala?

halafu hii ya Ufaransa kusafirisha wanajeshi wetu kwamba eti ndo basi hatuingii gharama, gharama katika vita si logistic tu, kuna accomodation, ammunation, medicine, intelligence operation costs, human catastrophies ambazo matibabu yake ni pesa kubwa,na kikubwa zaidi ni maisha ya askari wetu ambayo yatakuwa at stake kwa sababu ya kutokutumia njia za kidiplomasia vizuri.

hebu angalia katika nchi zote hapo, sisi ni nchi masikini kuliko zote lakini tunatoa askari wengi kuliko nchi zote.

Libya ni tajiri lakini haitoi afande hata mmoja zaidi ya kusafirisha wa wengine.

South Afrika mbeki toka awali anapinga hii operation.
 
....duru kutoka comoro zinasema kuwa muda wowote kuanzia dakika hii..offenssive will be launched from all directions of anjuan....the offensive is expected to last for three months....watanzania tujiandae kufunga mikanda kugharamia operation kwa wetu takribani 800.....kivita

....inaelezwa pia askari wa kanali bakari hawatabiriki na ni wakatili sana ..na pia hadi sasa inashangaza ni nani anampa kiburi hadi dakika hii...AU walitegemea kuwa baada ya kuona mkwara wa askari wanavyoland...angejisalimisha na ingekuwa hakuna vita tena...tena walimwambia achague nchi yoyote watampeleka...lakini wapi...inashangaza kiburi anatoa wapi!
 
Icadon said:
-South Africa sijui mchango wao ni hupi?
-Ufaranasa imejitolea kusafirisha wanajeshi wetu.
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the south afrikans are against this mission. ameriKKKa has contributed heavily to this mission since tanzania is fighting their proxy war on terror. the rebel is being helped by south afrikans and the french too. wafaransa are jus pimping both parties since tz a war btn EU and ameriKKKa fighting for the control of military bases.
 
Waziri wa mambo ya nchi za Nje bwana BERNARD MEMBE amkuwa akibehave kama Don Rumsfield kwa amekuwa hawakisha kwenye matamshi yake ya kutetea huvamizi wetu wa Comoro. Kama mjuavyo mimi sina ugomvi binafsi yane na kusema kweli I still admire him kama waziri ambaye ni mchapa kazi mzuri tuuu (kama akipewa nyenzo) lakini sina hakika what he is trying to prove na suspect anataka kujiposition kama presidential candidate, well sidhani kama kuna mwanasiasa atakaye bisha kuwa hataki kuwa rais.

Sasa basi mindhali media Tanzania imekuwa SEDATED na hakuna nayeuliza hard questions sasa nimeona sisi kama wana JF tunaweza kuuliza maswali ambayo wengi wanaogopa kuuliza kwa sababu:

a) wanatumiwa Private msgs kuwa WAAACHE WENYEWE HAWAPENDI
b) woga uliojikita miongno mwetu
c) Culture ya usiri uliopo serikalini


Sisis kama wazalendo wa Tanzania hatuto betray nchi yetu kwa kuwaweka maisha ya wanajeshi wetu hatarini, hatutoleak document yoyote ile kule WIKILEAKS kama documents za ufisadi zinginezo kuhusuana nah ii military operation lakini what we need hapa ni serikali kuwa up front nasi na kujibu maswali yafuatayo:


maswali:

Kwa nini Wizara ya Ulinzi chini ya Adama Malima ambaye ni waziri wamekuwa kimya?

Kwa nini Foreign chini ya Membe ndio wamekuwa wakitupa progress yah ii vita ?


Kwa nini Ikulu chini ya Salva hawatoi statements kwenye website yao kutueleza tutanifaika vipi kama taifa kupeleka wale wanajeshi kule?






Hii vita inatucost kiasi gani perday?

Je wanajeshi wetu wangapi wamejeruhiwa?

Wangapi washakufa?

Kwa nini wanajeshi wetu hawana BODY ARMOURS?


Ni akina nani walihusika kumshawishi JK sisi kuingia kwenye hii vita?





Hii operation ili pitishwa kwa azimio lipi la AU?


Lini?

akina nani walivote kule AU?


Nani ali abstain?


kwa nini?


Kama African Union hawawezi kupeleka Helicopter kule Darfur what makes you think pesa wanazo za hii operesheni ya Comoro?

Kama AU haina pesa za mkutano wa Pan African Parliament hizo pesa za uvamizi wa Comoro zimetoka wapi?

Kwa nini serikali haitaki kutuambia kuwa imetoa kiasi gani kwenye hii operation?


INTERVENTION:


Intervention hazikatazwi mfano Tanzania ilivamia Uganda uner pretext ya self defence na the same applies to Vietnam kuvamia Cambodia ...hii concepty inatumika zaidi kwenye UN charter 51


Je, Tanzanias invasion in Comoro inaangukia kwenye criteria gani ambayo ita concstitutte legitimate intervention?

kwenye internationa law wanasema kuwa ziko 4:


1) just cause (a "supreme humanitarian emergency")

2) last resort

3) proportional use of force


4) probability of achieving a humanitarian outcome


BERNARD MEMBE ambaye anajiposition kama hawk au tuseme Donal Rumsfield wetu hakuweka wazi haya.

Ina wezekana ikawa mheshimiwa waziri alipitiwa lakini ukiangalia jamaa wa International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty or the ICISS wao wali suggest six principles for the "responsibility to protect": nazo ni:

1)right cause

2)right intention

3)right authority

4) last resort

5)proportionate means

6)reasonable prospects

sasa maswali :

je, COMORO ina fit that bill?

Je uvamizi wa Comoro na majeshi yetu ni JUST CAUSE?

kama zote zimetick then lets move on kwenye argument ya pili nayo ni:

Je Majaeshi yetu yatakaa kule for how long?

Strategic planners wetu wanajua kuwa its EASY TO WIN THE WAR BUT DIFFICULT TO KEEP THE PEACE?

Bwana Abdul Bacar Soihir anapendwa kisiwani kwake na tuseme baada ya kuondoa..lets say majeshi yetu yakimuua mnategemea kuwa wananchi kwenye kie kisiwa wataendelea kuwapa wanajeshi wetu haluwa mtaani?

UHUSIANO WETU NA FRANCE:

Katika nchi ambaya wananchi wanawachukia wafaransa duniani basi COMORO ni number 1

Serikali ya ufaransa knowingly walikuwa wakimuachia yule DOG OF WAR bwana BOB DENARD kuwaua na kuwabadilishia watawala Comoro sasa raia wa Comoro leo atakisikiaje akisikia kuwa Tanzania na France lao moja kwenye hili?

Situation tuliyonayo itakuja kuwa kama ya majeshi ya India kule Srinegar na Jammu Kashmir ambako majeshi ya India ambayo ni waHINDU wamewakalia kimabavu raia wa Kashmir ambao wengi wao ni WAISLAM sasa hii ndio hali itakavyokuwa sasa hivi tunasherekea lakini kutokana na Sensitivity ya waComoro na FRANCE I am sure kuwa sisi tutaonekana kama occupying force kwenye kisiwa kile.


FANATIC MUSLIMS:
Japo wanasema kuwa rais wa sasa wa Comoro ni moderate Muslim lakini mwenyewe anajulikana kuwa anapata directives toka Iran na anajulikana kama ni hard liner. Sasa hamuoni kuwa hii iko in contrast na malengo yetu ya war against Muslim Fanaticism? Majeshi yetu wengi wao ni Wakristo sasa mnasemaje kama in the future kumetokea fall out na makundi ya waislam wenye siasa kali watakapo amua kubadilisha mwelekeo wa uvamizi wetu kama Ai Deed alivyofanya kula Somalia?

Its very simple kuignite haya mambo hivyo lets not rule that out.

UNITED NATIONS:

Je hamshangai kuwa UN haitajwi kabisa kwenye hili jambo? Membe hakuwaambia ukweli na ukweli ni kuwa forcible intervention kama ya Anjouan must be legally authorised by a resolution of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) tena in accordance with the consent of nine of the fifteen members

Mfano UNSC katika miaka ya karibuni wame authorize military intervention :

1) restore democracy in Haiti, (UNSC 1994,res/940)

2) end the repression of Kurds in northern Iraq,(UNSC,1991 res/688)

3) curb famine in Somalia,(UNSC,1992 res/794)

4) stop ethnic cleansing in Bosnia,(UNSC,1992 res/770)

5) limit genocide in Rwanda.(UNSC,1994 res/929)

Na kwa kila case ya hizi resolutions, the Council cited a threat to international peace as the principal legal justification for intervention. Sasa hebu niambieni Anjouan wamethreat Peace ya Tanzania kwa namna gani?

Wote tunajua kwa nini UNSCOM II ilifeli kule Somalia na sioni kwa nini hii military occupation ya kisiwa cha Anjouan isifeli kama kutakuwa na watu smart wa kutrigger opinion za wananchi wa Anjouan


Anyway sini sababu ya kutowahusisha jamaa wa UNITAF in the first place.

Kuna watu walisema kuwa wanjeshi wetu wnahitaji mazoezi..well wanaweza kufanya hivyo kwa kutuhudumia sisi wananchi badala ya kupoteza ma bilioni kule Comoro

Huu ni mwanzo tuu na mengine yatafuata baadae

Labda ASSAH MWAMBENE angeweka wazi kwa nini Foreign wamekuwa ma hawakish kiasi hiki na kwanini waziri wa ulinzi au wizara ya ulinzi hawaruhusiwi kusema kitu
 
Duh GT naona umekua mkali, anyways ukisoma humu kwenye thread nadhani kuna some posts zinazungumzia kiundani issue nzima ya Comoro hadi makubaliano ya AU. sasa kama hawa wacomoro wanawachukua wafaransa ilikuwaje mwaka 1997 walivyojitoa kwenye shirikisho walitaka kurudi chini ya utawala wa Ufaransa?

Kwa hiyo South Africa wanafundisha jeshi la serikali na la waasi?

Mkuu I thought that looked like a body armor

 
"Sasa basi mindhali media Tanzania imekuwa SEDATED na hakuna nayeuliza hard questions sasa nimeona sisi kama wana JF tunaweza kuuliza maswali ambayo wengi wanaogopa kuuliza"

GT, this Comoro issue is an international one. Could this sedation thing be for international media too?
 

Sidhani media in UZBEKISTAN watakuwa concerned sana. Ila kama ni ndugu zetu wamepelekwa kupigana vita ambayo serikali haitaki kutoa majibu au kutueleza kwa kinaga ubaga then media should have asked some questions na zaidi kuangalia legality ya vita yenyewe

nimeuliza maswali kibao tu hapo juu na najua hakuna anayeweza kutoa majibu sahihi zaidi ya serikali na kama serikali yetu imeamua kukaa kimya then sioni kwa nini wana JF wasiendelee na assumptions & innuendos na wala sitomlaumu mtu
 

Nakuelewa mkuu, lakini hata kama media yetu ni mbaya kiasi gani, ukiweka kwenye blanket form kama hivyo huitendei haki a section which is doing a good job. Unaongelea Uzbekistan...lakini naongelea International media kama BBC na Reuters ambao nao wamekuwa wakiripoti same way as our local media.

Hayo maswali uliyouliza ni very crucial, na ni vema tukatafuta majibu. Vyombo vya habari vinawajibu wa kufanya hii kazi, lakini pia hufanya kazi kama hii vizuri zaidi inapotokea sources kama wewe wanaposhinikiza upatikanaji wa majibu muhimu ya maswali kama haya.
 
..kwa nini wanajeshi wetu hawana body armor???



..wanabodi hili hata mimi nimenoti..we are putting our guys at risk without any safety measures ..vita ya siku hizi haipiganwi kwa kuvaa combat tu..the soldiers must be put at a minimal risk as much as possible..hatutaki wawe kama wa marekani ...ambapo kumvalisha askari mmoja inagharimu karibu dola 50,000..tunataka at least kila askari wetu ..awe na .....

bullet proof camoufledge helmet

body armor [bullet proof

field gears

communication kit[ at least a radio call]

kwa namna nionavyo vijana wana body armor chache sana...ukiangalia waliovaa ni wachache na sio wote......ndio maana hapa nyuma TUMEPATA KUANGALIA ADHARI ZA UFISADI KWENYE ANGA ZA KIJESHI......INAPOKUJA VITA KAMA HII TUNATIA AIBU ...HAKUNA NCHI INAYOPELEKA ASKARI MSTARI WA MBELE DUNIA YA LEO BILA PROTECTION PROVITION .....UNLESS TUNAONGELEA REBEL ARMIES KAMA ZA KINA KONY NA NKUNDA.............

ANGALIENI AIBU TENA YA UFISADI ..TUMEUZIWA HELKOPTA FEKI ZA CIVILIAN ...INGEKUWA TUNA HELCOPTER ZA KIVITA TUNGEKUWA TUNA TAMBA KWENYE ANGA LA COMORO SASA...LAKINI UFISADI UNATUFIKISHA HAPA!!!!!!.......NADHANI HUYU VITHLANI NA WENZAKE ANASTAHILI KUUWAWA KWA KULETA ZANA FEKI!!!!
 
Philemon,

ninaamini hata kama bajeti ya ulinzi ingekuwa kubwa kwa ajili ya kununua vifaa unavyoelezea, bado ingelalamikiwa kuwa kwa nini tunajishughulisha na mambo ya kivita badala ya kuimarisha uchumi...
 
Mbalamwezi said:
Philemon,

ninaamini hata kama bajeti ya ulinzi ingekuwa kubwa kwa ajili ya kununua vifaa unavyoelezea, bado ingelalamikiwa kuwa kwa nini tunajishughulisha na mambo ya kivita badala ya kuimarisha uchumi...
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mbalamwezi SAFETY FIRST....nani anayeweza kuhoji juhudi za serikali kuimarisha usalama wa askari wanaoenda mstari wa mbele..?

vifaa nilivyovitaji ni minimal basic safety precaution katika dunia ya leo...kimsingi ni utilities ambazo kwa kiasi kikubwa vinasaidia kupunguza vifo kwa askari..kwa kulinda vulnerable fatal hit areas kama kichwani na kifuani...angalau sehemu zilizobakia za mwili askari akipatwa na moto anaumia lakini anabaki na uhai..kuliko kufa!!!

hakuna nchi leo inayopeleka askari mstari wa mbele ...hata zile nchi maskini kabisa kama timor,,..,and the like.angalia hata askari wa uganda somalia ..wote wako secured!!!!

pesa wanayolipwa RICHMOND au IPTL kwa SIKU MBILI....[MILIONI 400 TU]..kwa bei za karibuni inatosha kuwanunulia askari 750 hizo gears zote nilizozitaja....kama watu hawa hike bei..
 
Samahani,

Hivi Tanzania iko kwenye mission ya Kulinda amani kama ilivyo Lebanon etc. au ni Vita kama mnavyosema...

Kama ni Vita are we saying Tanzania inapigana na Nani? Na Comorro au vipi... na kama hivyo ndivyo basi nchi nyingi zinapigana na Hiyo Comorro... maana nimeambiwa Sudan iko huko, Senegal inaelekea huko etc.

Nijuavyo tuko chini ya AU, na tuko upande wa Serikali iliyochaguliwa kihalali...
 
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