Sasa expropriation inaruhusiwa na sheria ipi? Kwani ungeenda kufungua shauri kuwa amefanya breach of contract na ukaweka ushahidi mezani mbona mkataba ungefanyiwa resolution mapema tu na kama fidia tungelipwa!!!?Alisema kitu gani wewe, upeleke watu wasio na uwezo wa kutetea kesi rahisi halafu umlaumu Magufuli.
Yaani una kibali cha mining toka 2008 bado unafanya exploration mpaka 2018, maana yake huna hiyo hela ya uwekezaji tu zaidi kukalia ardhi.
We naye punguza ujuaji, hivi kweli kuna mkataba unasainiwa bila kuandaa terms za dispute resolution au Arbitration kama ikitokea mgogoro au breach of contract?Ili ushitakiwe nje ya nchi hayo mambo lazima either yapo expressed kwenye stabilisation clause ya mkataba husika au watatumia BIT (hiyo term implied by law) kwenye mkataba.
In order to prevent a potential claims situation from escalating, we provide dispute resolution services to all of our clientsumewahi kuona kesi ya dispute imepelekwa huko MIGA toka uzaliwe au hata umewai sikia ‘claimant’ anataja neno MIGA kama source of breach.
Maelezo mengi ujinga mtupu.The issue in question is Tundu Lissu vs MIGA. Ukasema hajui lolote na tunaomsikiliza hatunazo, au siyo?
Sasa nikuulize: Wewe kwa maelezo yako haya unadhani unazo ngapi kichwani mwako against him?
Unaleta mambo ya litigation & ADR. Tell us how are they related to MIGA & ICSID? Kisha eleza ujinga wa Tundu Lissu uko wapi. Acha kukwepa hoja, simama kwenye hoja ulioianzisha mwenyewe....
Unaelewa maana ya MIGA & ICSID (their objectives & how they work?). Na unaelewa kuwa Tanzania ni mwanachama hizi multilateral Organizations ambazo ziko chini ya WB...?
After all kwenye hii hoja, hueleweki unazungumzia nini. Maana kama ni kesi za madai Tanzania ina kesi nyingi tu za madai dhidi ya makampuni ya kimataifa ambayo kwa makusudi na ujinga tu wa viongozi wa CCM wali breach mikataba waliyoingia..
Still hueleweki...
Unatumia neno "ili ushitakiwe" wakati nchi yako ndiyo hiyo imeshitakiwa kwa kesi lukuki za madai kwa sbb ya kukiuka mikataba...?
Unajua hueleweki unatetea nini wewe..???
Ingekuwa ni mwalimu wako na unaandika insha ya namna hii ningekulima 0%. Maana sioni mantiki ya unachoelezea hapa na kutetea...
By the way unaelewa MIGA na ICSID ni kitu gani? Unajua ni kwanini Tanzania imeshitakiwa ICSID na kukutwa na hatia na hivyo kulazimika kulipa mamilioni ya dola kwa kukiuka mikataba ya kimataifa ya wawekezaji...?
ABC za topic ipi ambayo mimi sina lakini wewe unazo...?
The intial topic was about Tundu Lissu na MIGA na ICSID kwa hoja yako kuwa, sisi ni wajinga kwa kuwa tunamsikiliza Tundu Lissu na hoja yake ya MIGA/ICSID...
Lakini the facts which are on the table ni kuwa Tanzania inashitakiwa ICSID kwa sababu sisi (Tanzania) ni member wa MIGA - Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency na ni member wa - International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes [ICSID] which is the evidence kuwa kuna the breach of terms of contracts among the two contractual parties na hivyo lazima mwende kwenye arbitration...
Sasa nakuliza: Kweli au siyo kweli? Nani anapuyanga kwenye mjadala huu? Bila shaka ni wewe. Angalia vizuri na utagundua kuwa hujui kuwa hujui...!!!
Huyu ndugu Mayor Quimby bila shaka yeye na mwenzake Etwege hawajui kabisa kuwa hizi taasisi MIGA na ICSID ni mikono ya World Bank, IMF na taasisi zingine za fedha za kimataifa....In order to prevent a potential claims situation from escalating, we provide dispute resolution services to all of our clients
This is an excerpt from MIGA website
Pia inaendelea kusema kuhusu kusettle madai.
If the parties are unable to settle their dispute and a claim for compensation is brought by an investor under a MIGA guarantee, we will review the facts of the dispute and make a formal determination. If MIGA finds for the insured investor, we will pay the compensation to which the investor is entitled under the guarantee. Under the terms of MIGA’s Convention, we are then permitted to seek reimbursement of such payments from the host government.
Sasa kivipi haifanyi dispute settlement au wamedanganya?
Source: Dispute Resolution | World Bank Group Guarantees | MIGA
Serikali ina haki ya ku-terminate mikataba ambayo performance airidhishi iwe kupitia sheria au maelezo.Sasa expropriation inaruhusiwa na sheria ipi? Kwani ungeenda kufungua shauri kuwa amefanya breach of contract na ukaweka ushahidi mezani mbona mkataba ungefanyiwa resolution mapema tu na kama fidia tungelipwa!!!?
Tatizo jamaa lenu alikua anaamini ubabe kuliko matumizi ya akili.
Hayo mwambie huyo ndugu yako unaempa likes The Palm Beach na mwenzake Lissu hawajui utaratibu wa hatua za awali hadi watu kupelekana ICSID kwenye kichwa chake ni chombo cha WB sijui IMF.We naye punguza ujuaji, hivi kweli kuna mkataba unasainiwa bila kuandaa terms za dispute resolution au Arbitration kama ikitokea mgogoro au breach of contract?
Ndio maana nikamueleza all MIGA can do is to impose sanctions.In order to prevent a potential claims situation from escalating, we provide dispute resolution services to all of our clients
This is an excerpt from MIGA website
Pia inaendelea kusema kuhusu kusettle madai.
If the parties are unable to settle their dispute and a claim for compensation is brought by an investor under a MIGA guarantee, we will review the facts of the dispute and make a formal determination. If MIGA finds for the insured investor, we will pay the compensation to which the investor is entitled under the guarantee. Under the terms of MIGA’s Convention, we are then permitted to seek reimbursement of such payments from the host government.
Sasa kivipi haifanyi dispute settlement au wamedanganya?
Source: Dispute Resolution | World Bank Group Guarantees | MIGA
Wewe hujui mambo ya mikataba afadhali huyo zitto juniorHuyu ndugu Mayor Quimby bila shaka yeye na mwenzake Etwege hawajui kabisa kuwa hizi taasisi MIGA na ICSID ni mikono ya World Bank, IMF na taasisi zingine za fedha za kimataifa....
Hawajui pia kuwa taasisi zote hizi zina nchi wanachama 182 duniani kote na Tanzania tukiwemo...
Hawajui kuwa taasisi hizi zinajishughulisha na facilitation ya international investments na pia kutatua migogoro ya kiwekezaji miongoni mwa nchi wanachama na wawekezaji (multinational companies)...
Na hoja ya Tundu Lissu from the beginning mara baada ya Mwendazake John P. Magufuli kuanza kuwashughulikia hawa investors kijinga na kizembe tu ilikuwa very short and clear kuwa, tukumbuke kuwa sisi Tanzania ni signatory wa MIGA na tukikiuka mikataba hii ya kimataifa waliyoingia wana CCM kijinga wenyewe, basi hawa investors watatupeleka kwenye mahakama za kimataifa na tutanyolewa bila maji...
Na categorically, aliyashauri maCCM kwa uwazi kabisa kuwa, kama wanataka kuondokana na kadhia hii ya kushitakiwa huko ICSIDs na ili wafanye mambo yao wakiwa wamejitenga na dunia, basi wajitoe kwenye taasisi hizi za kimataifa za kulinda wawekezaji wa kimataifa kama MIGA nk waone kama watapata investors toka mataifa ya nje...
Hawa machawa wa CCM kina Etwege na huyu jamaa Mayor Quimby walileta kila aina ya matwezo kwa Tundu Lissu simply because they are ignorant. Inashangaza kuwa, hata sasa matokeo ya matendo yao yanaigharimu nchI huku yakiwa yamehupaza shingo kwa kiburi huku yakiwa yanaogelea kwenye ujinga huo huo wa miaka yote...!
Ungekuwa ujinga, ungelala. Lakini hebu twende mpaka utakapoishia...Maelezo mengi ujinga mtupu.
Investment ya nani inakuwa protected..?Nitakujibu kwa wepesi MIGA ina protect investment,
Kwani Magufuli alifanya nini..?ni kwamba una sign uwezi kuamka asubuhi moja na kutaifisha mali za mtu kwa kujisikia tu.
Hizi fidia nchi inazolipa ni matokeo ya nini kama haitokani na contract disputes among the two parties..?That’s what countries commit to, it has nothing to do with contract disputes.
Are you aware that MIGA & ICSIDs ndiyo mikono ya WBNa ukichukua mali za mtu bila ya sababu za msingi probably WB inaweza tumia sanctions haki isipopatikana kwa njia zingine au kukufungulia litigation (this is rare) Hakuna nchi inaweza chukua mitambo ya mtu na kusema ni mali yake dunia ya leo.
Bado hueleweki. Ili ueleweke, labda hebu jibu maswali haya👇🏻👇🏻ADR ni aspect za stabilisation clause ata kwenye IGA wameweka ni mtiririko wa hatua za kutatua migogoro sehemu ya mwisho ya kutatua mgogoro ni arbitration (ICSID) it has nothing to na WB or IMF kwanza hata arbitrators mnawachaguwa wenyewe wahusika na sehemu ya kutatua mgogoro. Hayo mambo either yapo expressed kwenye mkataba au BIT.
You're so naive my friend...Hujui hata tofauti ya MIGA na ICSID halafu umekazana kweli kuandika ujinga.
Kama unataka kuelewa, you have to be honest na ukubali mawazo ya wengine....Hayo mwambie huyo ndugu yako unaempa likes The Palm Beach na mwenzake Lissu hawajui utaratibu wa hatua za awali hadi watu kupelekana ICSID kwenye kichwa chake ni chombo cha WB sijui IMF.
Soma post #55 ya rafiki yako kaelezea hakuna mwekezaji atakują Tanzania au kwenda kuwekeza nje ya nchi yake bila ya kuwa stabilisation clause either implied by BIT au expressed in the contract (that’s how people protect their investments).Ungekuwa ujinga, ungelala. Lakini hebu twende mpaka utakapoishia...
Investment ya nani inakuwa protected..?
Kwani Magufuli alifanya nini..?
Hizi fidia nchi inazolipa ni matokeo ya nini kama haitokani na contract disputes among the two parties..?
Hivi hapa mjinga ni mimi au wewe ndugu Mayor Quimby..?
Be honest and tell me pls...
Are you aware that MIGA & ICSIDs ndiyo mikono ya WB
? Hizo sanctions ambazo WB inaweza kuiwekea nchi iliyo breach mikataba ya uwekezaji kama unavyoeleza hapa unadhani inafanyikaje?
Think, then come with the answer...
Bado hueleweki. Ili ueleweke, labda hebu jibu maswali haya👇🏻👇🏻
1. Si unafahamu kuwa Tanzania tuna lundo la kesi za madai tokana na kukiuka (breach) mikataba ambayo nyie CCM mliingia na makampuni mbalimbali ya kimataifa zingine ndo hizo zimeamuliwa na mmeshindwa na hivyo kulipa fidia ya mapesa mengi?
2. Hivi ilikuwaje mpaka nchi ikafikia huko?
You're so naive my friend...
Kama mimi sijui, hebu nieleze wewe unayejua maana toka tumeanza kujadiliana, hujataka kueleza ujuavyo wewe. MIGA na ICSID ni nini? Nini malengo yake? Zinatekelezaji majukumu yake..?
Unaweza kumwita na mwenzako Etwege msaidiane...
Hivi unadhani ACCACIA (ambae shareholder wake mkubwa alikuwa Barrick), wanaochimba madini ulimwenguni mzima mkataba wao usiwe na stabilisation close, achilia mbali Tanzania na UK walikuwa na BIT.Kama unataka kuelewa, you have to be honest na ukubali mawazo ya wengine....
Unakumbuka Tundu Lissu kabla ya yule mharibifu hajammiminia risasi 37 alishauri nini kama hatutaki kushitakiwa kwenye mahakama za kimataifa kwa kukiuka mikataba ya uwekezaji wa makampuni ya kimataifa..?
Usirukeruke, kuwa specific, jibu swali hili...
Ukiwa mkweli wa nafsi yako, utaachana na drama unazopiga kwenye mjadala huu...
What exactly do you mean here? Mimi sina ubaya wowote na wewe, fafanua ili ueleweke...bila ya kuwa stabilisation clause either implied by BIT au expressed in the contract (that’s how people protect their investments).
Sio hadidhi ni reality...Sio hadithi żako ICSID ni arbitration
Sikuelewi kwa kuwa wewe pia huelewi...hatua za ADR we mbona mgumu kuelewa
Ndio maana nikwakwambia hujui haya mambo.What exactly do you mean here? Mimi sina ubaya wowote na wewe, fafanua ili ueleweke...
Hiyo "BIT" ni nini?
Sio hadidhi ni reality...
Tanzania ina kesi lukuki ICSID. Zingine zimeamuliwa na nchi inalipa mamilioni ya dola. Iweje ni hadithi? Unajua usemacho kweli?
Ni kwanini kama nchi tumefika hapo..?
Sikuelewi kwa kuwa wewe pia huelewi...
What is "stabilization clause?". Hizo "clauses" zinasaidia vipi kuzuia nchi kushitakiwa na kuishia kulipa fidia ya mamilioni ya dola...?Hivi unadhani ACCACIA (ambae shareholder wake mkubwa alikuwa Barrick), wanaochimba madini ulimwenguni mzima mkatabz wao usiwe na stabilisation close, achilia mbali Tanzania na UK walikuwa na BIT.
Nimekuuliza alishauri nini tunapo deal na mikataba ya kimataifa? Ulikuwa ushauri mbaya au mzuri? Halafu Magufuli akafanya nini badala yake...?Lissu alikuwa ni nuisance tu, yaani hakina Indiana wasio na mitaji ya kuweka hata $10 million, wajue namna ya kujilinda iwe Barrick.
Vyema umekiri kuwa wewe si mjuvi wa abc za mambo haya..Mimi sio mjuzi vile ila nina abc, shida wewe huna kabisa; ndio maana uoni merit za hoja
Lala tu, lakini ukiamuka, utayakuta majibu yako kesho..Anyway usiku mwema. 👋
Kiongozi sina shaka na uwezo wako kwenye topics zingine, lakini sio hii.What is "stabilization clause?". Hizo "clauses" zinasaidia vipi kuzuia nchi kushitakiwa na kuishia kulipa fidia ya mamilioni ya dola...?
Nimekuuliza alishauri nini tunapo deal na mikataba ya kimataifa? Ulikuwa ushauri mbaya au mzuri? Halafu Magufuli akafanya nini badala yake...?
Vyema umekiri kuwa wewe si mjuvi wa abc za mambo haya..
Nevertheless, unashangaza sana kwa statement yako hii "Lissu alikuwa ni nuisance tu". Wewe usiyejua abc za mambo haya, unawezaje kusema kauli hii dhidi ya mwanasheria msomi wa kimataifa Tundu Lissu...?
This is so disgusting and actually, you're embarrassing yourself...!
Lala tu, lakini ukiamuka, utayakuta majibu yako kesho..
Kukuuliza haina maana kuwa sijui isipokuwa ni kupata uhakika iwapo wewe unayeyaandika haya mambo unayajua kweli au la...Ndio maana nikwakwambia hujui haya mambo.
Unaelewa maana ya hayo niliyoya bold..?Unaongea maswala ya mikataba ya host government halafu hujui ‘stabilisation clause’ ni kitu gani wala ‘BIT’ (Bilateral Investment Treaty) ni nini.
Google ujifunze 👋
My simple question ndugu Mayor Quimby ambalo hulijibu ni hili👇🏻👇🏻:Kiongozi sina shaka na uwezo wako kwenye topics zingine, lakini sio hii.
Kwenye hii mada unajichoresha kadri unavyozidi kuandika maana hujui unachoongea ‘stabilisation clause’ mwekezaji ndio anatumia kujilinda kama hakuna BIT (sio host government). Humo kuna maelezo yote ya hatua za kutatua mgogoro na ulinzi wa mkataba sera za nchi zikibadilika nchi ikipata kiongozi mwingine.
Ndio msingi wa IGA ya DPW kwa sehemu kubwa. Kama hakuna kwenye sheria basi itakuwa expressed kwenye mkataba. Lakini hakuna habari za MIGA kwenye mikataba.