Kuhani
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 2, 2008
- 2,944
- 64
Walijaribu, 2003. Sijui kesi iliisha isha vipi.
Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar na kero zake: Je, tuuvunje?
Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar na kero zake: Je, tuuvunje?
Walijaribu, 2003. Sijui kesi iliisha isha vipi.
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Walishinda kesi kwa msingi kuwa Zanzibar si nchi kwa hiyo hawawezi kuwa wahaini. Nadhani wafungue nyingine kupinga kuachiwa kwao kwa msingi kuwa zanzibar ni nchi kwa hiyo wanaweza kuwa wahaini!
NgomaNzito
JF-Expert Member
- Jan 10, 2008
- 559
- 28
Kumbe huu mgogoro haukuanza hivi karibuni ulikuwepo kitambo kidogo check hii part nimeipata kwenye paper ya Tundu Lissu toka bungeni
6.1 Mining a Union Matter?
The Act is applicable throughout the United Republic and it, therefore, makes mining generally part of Union matters. This is of particular interest in that although the Constitution of the United Republic of Tanzania, 1977, provides for mineral oil resources (including crude oil and natural gas) as being a Union matter; the Mining Act expressly excludes in its application, 'the search for and production of petroleum'.
It is for this very reason that this provision was hotly debated in the National Assembly when the Bill for the Mining Act came before the Assembly during the its 11th Meeting of the 6th Session held on 23rd April 1998. Hon. Danhi B. Makanga, MP, is on record as saying the following in connection with the above issue:
' Honourable Chairman, I want clarification on clause 5. It says 'The entire property in and control over minerals in, on, under land to which this Act applies is vested in the United Republic of Tanzania.' Now, Honourable Chairman, as I understand it, this Ministry (i.e. of Energy and Minerals) is not a Union Ministry and this kind of statute does not exist in Zanzibar and there is a different Minister there and different programmes. Now how could we Tanzanians be understood? I seek clarification?' (Sic!)(Tanzania, 1998:32)(Original emphasis, free translation from the Swahili original).
To this the Attorney General replied at length:
'Honourable Chairman, clause 5 only says that all minerals on, in or under the land are the property of the United Republic. This does not have any relation with the question as to whether the exploration for minerals or mining activities will be carried out by the Revolutionary Government (of Zanzibar) or by the Government of the United Republic. I presume the Honourable MP intended to ask the question concerning Part One clause 2 which we have covered. Since I have risen up in order to help him, it is only proper that I should help him understand this Part.
'First, what this Bill does provide is not new, for the existing mining law says clearly that this law is applicable in the area of the United Republic. Since, however, mining is not one of the Union matters, this law (i.e. Bill) provides, as does the existing law, that it will be applicable in all areas which are under the jurisdiction of the United Republic. These areas include land under the territorial waters, on or under the continental shelf and on or under the sea bed . Now since this is not a Union matter, the Union Government which is responsible for non-Union matters in respect of Tanzania Mainland may apply this law to permit miners or mineral explorers to operate in the areas I have referred to above.
'Second, the Revolutionary Government of Zanzibar may also operate in this area because there is a mining law to that effect in Zanzibar. So what needs to be done is to have a good system; and since Parliament has passed the Joint Finance Commission law, a system for the division of these matters of natural resources and the proceeds from this area is being prepared through this institution' (Ibid., 33) (free translation from the Swahili original).
When further pressed by Hon. Makanga to be specific as to whether this law will apply to Zanzibar or not, the Attorney General unambiguously stated that ' this Bill will not apply to Zanzibar' (Ibid, 33-34).
It would appear implicit in the Attorney General's formulation that the jurisdiction of the Revolutionary Government of Zanzibar does not extend beyond mainland Zanzibar and Pemba Islands; that since Zanzibar is not a sovereign state it cannot, therefore, claim to have territorial waters nor a continental shelf of its own. It logically follows from this view that the waters off the two main islands of Zanzibar thus fall under the jurisdiction of the Union Government which has jurisdiction on both the Union matters and the non-union matters for Tanzania Mainland. In this view the Mining Act would, therefore, cover the continental shelf and the territorial waters of the United Republic but not mainland Zanzibar.
It is submitted, however, that the Attorney General's interpretation of section 2 is incorrect. That section states, in no uncertain terms, that the Act is applicable throughout the United Republic and if it was not intended to apply in mainland Zanzibar, the draftsperson would have easily stated so and would have completely left it out. Secondly, if - as the Attorney General contended - it was not meant to apply in mainland Zanzibar why has it been retained in the statute book in exactly the same formulation even after its legal propriety had been challenged? Be that as it may, this provision has great potential of attracting political controversy as it seems to amount to one more addition (through the back door, as it were) in the list of Union matters whose constitutionality has previously been challenged in academic literature.
6.1 Mining a Union Matter?
The Act is applicable throughout the United Republic and it, therefore, makes mining generally part of Union matters. This is of particular interest in that although the Constitution of the United Republic of Tanzania, 1977, provides for mineral oil resources (including crude oil and natural gas) as being a Union matter; the Mining Act expressly excludes in its application, 'the search for and production of petroleum'.
It is for this very reason that this provision was hotly debated in the National Assembly when the Bill for the Mining Act came before the Assembly during the its 11th Meeting of the 6th Session held on 23rd April 1998. Hon. Danhi B. Makanga, MP, is on record as saying the following in connection with the above issue:
' Honourable Chairman, I want clarification on clause 5. It says 'The entire property in and control over minerals in, on, under land to which this Act applies is vested in the United Republic of Tanzania.' Now, Honourable Chairman, as I understand it, this Ministry (i.e. of Energy and Minerals) is not a Union Ministry and this kind of statute does not exist in Zanzibar and there is a different Minister there and different programmes. Now how could we Tanzanians be understood? I seek clarification?' (Sic!)(Tanzania, 1998:32)(Original emphasis, free translation from the Swahili original).
To this the Attorney General replied at length:
'Honourable Chairman, clause 5 only says that all minerals on, in or under the land are the property of the United Republic. This does not have any relation with the question as to whether the exploration for minerals or mining activities will be carried out by the Revolutionary Government (of Zanzibar) or by the Government of the United Republic. I presume the Honourable MP intended to ask the question concerning Part One clause 2 which we have covered. Since I have risen up in order to help him, it is only proper that I should help him understand this Part.
'First, what this Bill does provide is not new, for the existing mining law says clearly that this law is applicable in the area of the United Republic. Since, however, mining is not one of the Union matters, this law (i.e. Bill) provides, as does the existing law, that it will be applicable in all areas which are under the jurisdiction of the United Republic. These areas include land under the territorial waters, on or under the continental shelf and on or under the sea bed . Now since this is not a Union matter, the Union Government which is responsible for non-Union matters in respect of Tanzania Mainland may apply this law to permit miners or mineral explorers to operate in the areas I have referred to above.
'Second, the Revolutionary Government of Zanzibar may also operate in this area because there is a mining law to that effect in Zanzibar. So what needs to be done is to have a good system; and since Parliament has passed the Joint Finance Commission law, a system for the division of these matters of natural resources and the proceeds from this area is being prepared through this institution' (Ibid., 33) (free translation from the Swahili original).
When further pressed by Hon. Makanga to be specific as to whether this law will apply to Zanzibar or not, the Attorney General unambiguously stated that ' this Bill will not apply to Zanzibar' (Ibid, 33-34).
It would appear implicit in the Attorney General's formulation that the jurisdiction of the Revolutionary Government of Zanzibar does not extend beyond mainland Zanzibar and Pemba Islands; that since Zanzibar is not a sovereign state it cannot, therefore, claim to have territorial waters nor a continental shelf of its own. It logically follows from this view that the waters off the two main islands of Zanzibar thus fall under the jurisdiction of the Union Government which has jurisdiction on both the Union matters and the non-union matters for Tanzania Mainland. In this view the Mining Act would, therefore, cover the continental shelf and the territorial waters of the United Republic but not mainland Zanzibar.
It is submitted, however, that the Attorney General's interpretation of section 2 is incorrect. That section states, in no uncertain terms, that the Act is applicable throughout the United Republic and if it was not intended to apply in mainland Zanzibar, the draftsperson would have easily stated so and would have completely left it out. Secondly, if - as the Attorney General contended - it was not meant to apply in mainland Zanzibar why has it been retained in the statute book in exactly the same formulation even after its legal propriety had been challenged? Be that as it may, this provision has great potential of attracting political controversy as it seems to amount to one more addition (through the back door, as it were) in the list of Union matters whose constitutionality has previously been challenged in academic literature.
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Madini yote yaliyo katika eneo la jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ni mali ya Jamhuri ya Muungano. Hata hivyo hiyo serikali ya Muungano inaweza kuachia upande mmoja wa Muungano ufaidike zaidi na madini yaliyo katika eneo lake. walitakiwa waende kwa heshima na kuomba hayo mafuta yasiyokuwepo waachiwe wayafaidi wenyewe. Kama adha, serikali ya JMT ingewaachia. Tatizo ni watu kutafuta umaarufu usiokuwa na mbele wala nyuma. Jambo hili lingemalizwa katika vikao vyao. Kama vile wenzao wa bara walivyowaachia suala la muafaka. Hata hili wangeachiwa.
Kuhani
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 2, 2008
- 2,944
- 64
Ha haaa ha aaaaa. Trenchant point there.
Ah, kumbe ile kesi ya Uhaini ndio huwa inaitwa kesi ya Muungano. Mimi wakati wote nilifikiri kuna nyingine Wanzanzibar walidai kujitoa specifically.
Hebu naomba usome hiki kitu:
Na Nizar K Visram
"Baada ya kufariki kwa Mwalimu suala hilo likajitokeza kwa nguvu zaidi. Mfano mmoja ni ile kesi iliyofunguliwa mnamo 2003 na Wazanzibari kumi wakidai kuwa Muungano ulikuwa batili. Wamtaka Mwanasheria Mkuu wa Zanzibar awasilishe Hati ya Muungano. Aliiambia mahakama kuwa hajawahi kuiona! Ikasemekana kuwa haipo. Kesi hiyo imefifia lakini suala la Hati ya Muungano litaibuka tena."
Makala nzima bonyeza: Mraba Wa Maggid: Visram; Hati Ya Muungano Imevurugwa Tangu 64
Ndio maana all along nilifikiri kuna nyingine zaidi ya ile ya Uhaini. Specifically ya Muungano. Ile ya Uhaini ninajua kilichojiri.
Sasa sijui huyo Nizar K. Visram ni nani na anajua nini lakini kama anavyosema Mkuu wangu mmoja "...huu ndiyo uzuri wa www. It is a jungle! Enter at your own risk." Na kama huyu Nizar yuko sahihi ina mana kuna kesi ya Uhaini na kesi ya Muungano. Mwaka huo huo 2003, mmhh!
Sasa ile ya Muungano ndio nataka kujua iliisha isha vipi?
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Vile vile inawezekana ikawa mimi ndiye niliyechanganya mambo!
Kuhani
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 2, 2008
- 2,944
- 64
Fundi Mchundo, unanimaliza ile mbaya mwanangu! One day I would like to become half the man you are. And I mean it. (By the way Fundi, sijui kama huwa unaelewa lugha lugha zangu: Kumaliza = ku admire, Mwanangu = ndugu/rafiki. Samahani, huwa najikuta naandika vile ninavyoongea.)
Well, kwa sababu you never flinch in the face of criticism and correction, here is one shot at ya!
Unakosea unaposema Madini yote yaliyo katika eneo la Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ni mali ya Jamhuri ya Muungano
Bunge la Jamhuri, Julai 21, 2008
SWALI: MHE. MOHAMMED HABIB JUMA MNYAA (CUF, Mkanyageni):
Kwa kuwa Serikali ilisema kuwa Maliasili ya Madini sio suala la Muungano na kwa kuwa Maliasili Mafuta na Gesi ni masuala ya Muungano:
(a) Je, ni vigezo gani vilivyofanya Maliasili Madini isiwe ya Muungano, lakini Mafuta na Gesi vikawa vya Muungano?
(b) Je, kuanzia tarehe gani na mwaka gani Mafuta na Gesi yamekuwa ya Muungano?
JIBU: MHE. WILLIAM NGELEJA, WAZIRI WA NISHATI NA MADINI
(a) Maliasili Madini sio za Muungano, isipokuwa Maliasili Nishati zinazohusisha Mafuta na Gesi ni za Muungano. Kigezo kilichofanya Maliasili Madini isiwe ya Muungano, lakini Mafuta na Gesi vikawa vya Muungano ni Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ya mwaka 1977 (Ibara ya nne na Nyongeza ya Kwanza) ambayo ndiyo inayotoa mwongozo na sheria zote za nchi zinafuata Katiba.
Pamoja na kuwa kwa sasa Maliasili Madini sio ya Muungano, lakini mapato yanayotokana na madini yanakwenda moja kwa moja kwenye Mfuko Mkuu wa Mapato ya Serikali ambao ndio unagharamia uendeshaji wa Serikali ya Jamhuri ya uungano.
(b) Maliasili ya Mafuta na Gesi imekuwa ya Muungano tangu katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ilipotungwa na kubainisha mambo yapi ni ya Muungano na yapi sio ya Muungano.
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Inawezekana. Lakini huyu mheshimiwa ali'quote' kipengele cha sheria. Wote tunaelewa kiingereza. Au tuseme ni kuwa hii Act hai'apply' kwenye nchi ya Zanzibar? Hii ni Act ya 1998 na Mheshimiwa Ngereja ana'quote' ya 1977!
Mimi naamini ukweli ni huu wa 1998 lakini hakuna mtu mwenye guts ya kuusema. kama kawaida tunaogopa kuwa'offend' wenzetu. Lakini tena, inawezekana nimekosea.
Kuna yale masomo ya hesabu yanaitwa kuainisha.
Una watoto 30, unawagawa katika makundi mawili.
25 unawatuma wakatafute machungwa, wanaporudi hao watoto 25 wamepata machungwa 15.
Kundi la pili watoto watano, wakirudi wamepata machungwa 9
Hayo machungwa sasa yawe umeme unaotumiwa bara na visiwani.
Kundi la kwanza 15 ukigawanya kwa 25 unapata 0.6
Kundi la pili 5 ukigawanya kwa 9 unapata 1.8
Jibu umeshalipata
"Tanzania has a population of 39.4 million, of which only 10.0 per
cent have access to electricity," notes Frost & Sullivan Research
Analyst Moses Duma. "With economic development fuelling residential
and commercial demand for power, the Tanzanian Government is
channelling substantial resources towards upgrading existing power
plants, building new ones and exploring alternative sources of power."
Demand for Electricity in Tanzania Fuelled by Industrial Growth | Reuters
Inajulikana wazi pia kwamba wenye nyumba zenye umeme Zanzibar ni wengi ukilinganisha na Tanzania bara.
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Darwin,
Kwa hiyo umeme unatumiwa kuwashia taa na kupigia pasi tu? Je Viwanda, Migodi,Maduka,Maofisi, Mabaa, Mahoteli na kadhalika, na kadhalika?
Tukichukua heasabu zako na tuseme kuwa Tanzania bara ni asilimia kumi tu wanaotumia umeme na zanzibar asilimia 100 ( hata watu wa Tumbatu na Pemba). Tuseme Zanzibar wako watu milioni tatu ( ambayo ni kuwapendelea). hao zaidi ya milioni 3.6 ( asilimia 10 ya 36.4 milioni uliyoileta mwenyewe) bado wamewazidi. Hapo tukiachia kwamba kiwanda kikubwa Zanzibar ni cha soda!!!!
bado mnataka kusema mnalipa zaidi ya bara? Pamoja na kwamba mnapewa unafuu wa bei kuliko wa bara? Au hayo malimbikizo mnayopunguza kidogo kidogo ndiyo yanayowapa kiburi!
Kwa hiyo umeme unatumiwa kuwashia taa na kupigia pasi tu? Je Viwanda, Migodi,Maduka,Maofisi, Mabaa, Mahoteli na kadhalika, na kadhalika?
Tukichukua heasabu zako na tuseme kuwa Tanzania bara ni asilimia kumi tu wanaotumia umeme na zanzibar asilimia 100 ( hata watu wa Tumbatu na Pemba). Tuseme Zanzibar wako watu milioni tatu ( ambayo ni kuwapendelea). hao zaidi ya milioni 3.6 ( asilimia 10 ya 36.4 milioni uliyoileta mwenyewe) bado wamewazidi. Hapo tukiachia kwamba kiwanda kikubwa Zanzibar ni cha soda!!!!
bado mnataka kusema mnalipa zaidi ya bara? Pamoja na kwamba mnapewa unafuu wa bei kuliko wa bara? Au hayo malimbikizo mnayopunguza kidogo kidogo ndiyo yanayowapa kiburi!
Idimi
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 18, 2007
- 15,328
- 11,192
Ndugu Kipunguni,
Huyu bwana Reading hizi siasa za Tanzania atakuwa kazitoa wapi wakati yeye kaja kwa ajili ya utafiti wa mafuta? Au hili suala la siasa lilikuwepo katika hadidu za rejea za kazi aliyotumwa kuifanya Bw Reading?
Naomba kueleweshwa
Huyu bwana Reading hizi siasa za Tanzania atakuwa kazitoa wapi wakati yeye kaja kwa ajili ya utafiti wa mafuta? Au hili suala la siasa lilikuwepo katika hadidu za rejea za kazi aliyotumwa kuifanya Bw Reading?
Naomba kueleweshwa
Fundi Mchundo,
You may be kidding!
Kama hapa majuzi Wapemba waliandaa mgomo wa kutowauzia chakula Waunguja, unafikiri itakuwaje pale ambapo mafuta yatagunduliwa Pemba? Si ndio watakuwa wameongezewa 'Silaha' ya kujitenga na 'Kuwakomoa Wamatumbi' wa Unguja?
Sipati picha hali itakavyokuwa iwapo yatagunduliwa mafuta Pemba.
Let's wait and see!
Soma kwanza vizuri
Kuna sehemu inayosema Tanzania na SIO TANGAYIKA AU TANZANIA BARA
Hebu anza upya
"Tanzania has a population of 39.4 million, of which only 10.0 per
cent have access to electricity,"
By the way
Mimi sio mtu wa visiwani,
Kwetu Tanga
Msambaa wa kule kunakoleta matunda mengi na mboga sokoni kariakoo.
Post zenu nasema niza nani zaidi na sio kuangalia facts
Mwaataia kwamba wantu wa visiwani ne wantu wakuanza afrika ngima ya mashariki kuutumia umeme kutishinda iswi wa wantu wa bara?
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Kumbe Msambaa mwenzangu! Angalia na wewe posting yangu. Utaona nimewatoa waZanzibari milioni 3 kwenye hesabu ya hao waTanzania ndipo nikachukua asilimia kumi ya milioni 36.4 ( sio milioni 39.4 kama unavyodai). Bado asilimia 10 ya watanganyika ni zaidi ya asilimia 100 ya wazanzibari! na Pemba nimefika. Najua si wote wenye umeme. Na ukienda nje ya mji wa Zanzibar ( nahani wenyewe wanaita mashamba) wengi tu wanaotumia vibatali. Nimewasamee wote hao na kusema kwa vile Zanzibar wametuzidi maendeleao wote wanatumia umeme wa Tanesco! Au unataka tuseme kila mZanzibari ana mashine ya unga ili hesabu zako zitimie? Haya ni matumizi ya nyumbani wakati tunajua matumizi makubwa ni kwenye viwanda migodi na kadhalika. Haya, msambaa mwenzangu, Zanzibar kuna viwanda vingapi?
Nilikimbia umande lakini wakati wetu hauvuki darasani bila kujua multiplication table!
Hamad Yussuf
Member
- Mar 31, 2008
- 25
- 0
Zanzibar ni nchi yetu, sisi hatuna pengine yawepo mafuta yasiwepo hapa ndiyo nyumbani, ndio tulipozaliwa na hatuna shangazi wala mjomba nje ya Zanzibar, huo ndio ukweli hata kama hamuupendi.
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Na hao walio Sharif Shamba si wazanzibari? Na hao walioolewa na kuoa wamatengo si wazanzibari? Na watoto wao, sio wazanzibari? na hao wanaotafuta riziki Oman na Dubai si wazanzibari? na hao wanaotafuta riziki uingereza, sauzi hata kwa kujifanya wasomali, sio wazanzibari?
Tunawapenda kwa sababu tumewaoa na tumeolewa nanyi. Tunawapenda kwa sababu tumesoma nanyi na tunaishi jirani nanyi. Tunawapenda kwa sababu msiba wenu ni wetu na msiba wetu ni wenu. Tunawapenda kwa sabau sherehe yenu ni yetu na yenu ni yetu. Tunawapenda kwa sababu undugu wetu umevuka vipande vya karatasi au vibuyu vilivyochanganywa mchanga.
Wachache wenu hamlioni hili. Lakini wengi wenu walio kimya wanaliona.
