Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar na kero zake: Je, tuuvunje?

Mwiba,
Mkuu do really buy that?..
Zoezi hilo ni kuwaonyesha Wazanzibar wenye mawazo tofauti kwamba Jeshi letu lipo tayari kukabiri vikundi vidogo vidogo vinavyojenga na KUENEZA Fitna ktk Muungano. Hata siku moja usifikirie kwamba jeshi hilo lipo upande wa Visiwani, jeshi linaongozwa na Serikali ya Muungano na amri Jeshi mkuu ni rais wa Jamhuri. Mkuu hii ni nchi ya Kiafrika Ogopa sana nguvu ya Dola na nakuombeni msifikie kufikiria hivyo!.

Kitu kimoja binafsi nachokubaliana na Zanzibar ni kuwepo kwa nchi au Taifa inategemea na kipi kinachotangulia. Iwe NCHI au TAIFA ndio neno linalopaswa kutumia kuzitambulisha sehemu hizi mbili nje ya Muungano. Zanzibar ina sovereign yake ktk territory za visiwa vyake na ndio maana tuliunda MUUNGAMO. Sh. Abeid Karume alikuwa President wa Zanzibar siku na kabla ya Muunngano huwezi kuondoa hilo ktk Muungano na ndiye aliyeweka sahihi na kuchanganya mchanga. Pamoja na yote hayo still mtu unawqeza kuona tofauti ya mchanga ktk lundo la mchanganyiko kuwa upo mchanga wa sehemu mbili tofauti.
Neno, MUUNGANO haliji bila kuwepo makubalianano kati ya nchi mbili HURU..kwa hiyo hao viongozi wa Bara ni lazima wafahamu ukweli huo ambao haupingiki.
Sasa ni jinsi gani nchi zetu zinaweza kutumia rasilimali zetu ktk Muungano huu ni swala ambalo LAZIMA litazamwe upya kwa sababu wakati wa Muungano wa kwanza nchi zetu zote zilichukua mfumo wa UJAMAA ambao kila kitu kilikuwa centralised ktk serikali kuu. Mfumo huo tumeuacha miaka mingi sasa na ajabu swala la mgao wa pato la Taifa haukufanyiwa marekebisho isipokuwa UFISADI wa Azimio la Zanzibar kuwapa nafasi viongozi kujijenga wao.
Hapa inatueleza nini kwetu sisi wananchi?.. ni kwamba serikali zetu, viongozi wetu na hasa chama cha Mapinduzi ni chama kilichoingiliwa na Majambazi!.. Leo hii nina mashaka makubwa kama wapo wazee waliopigania UHURU wa nchi zote hizi mbili ktk madaraka kuwaelekeza hawa vijana viongozi. Sidhani kama wapo wazee viongozi wenye sauti ktk serikali hiii ya Muungano ambao walihudhulia mazungumzo ya awali kuhusiana na Muungano, Pengine wengi wameisha kufa ama ndio hawashirikishwi kabisa...
La muhimu kabisa kwanza ni kutambua umuhimu wa Muungano wetu, msiwe na fikra zinazotanguliwa na umaskini yaani nikiwa na maana ya NJAA!.. Uchumi wa nchi zetu umekuwa ukigawanywa kama vile maskini anavyopata.. Ni kweli Bara walipopata Gas na Madini waliona wameuchinja wakajitenga lakini ni akina nani haswa?.. Utakuta ni viongozi hawa vijana ambao Hata Bara kwenyewe wameikimbia Familia yao (Bara) kutafuta makazi mapya.. Haya ndiyo maisha ya mtu maskini siku akipata huikimbia hata Familia yake akajitenga kabisa kuogopa fedha zake zitakwisha kujaribu kuokoa ndugu zake.
Sasa tatizo jingine ni Zanzibar, maskini mwingine ambaye pia kaona kuna dalili za Utajiri! Kwa akili ya kimaskini anatafuta naye kujitenga mapema na hakika wanaoshinikiza swala hili ni viongozi maskini. Viongozi ambao nina hakika siku Zanzibar wakipata Utajiri huo watachukua kila kitu na kujitenga na Familia yao (Zanzibar) kutafuta makazi mapya pengine Arabuni ama Bara. Hawa ndio viongozi Mafisadi wasiokuwa na haya ambao wanasubiri tu nafasi za kuibia wananchi wake.

Kwa hiyo wajomba sisi wananchi, wa bara na visiwani ni muhimu kutazama kwanza ADUI wa maendeleo wa pande zote hizi ni nani? nani adui wa maendeleo ya visiwani na Bara utakuta ni viongozi wetu wenyewe!.. Visiwani wakitaka kujitenga ili wapate kuvuta kirahisi na Bara nako viongozi wetu ambao tayari wameisha kamata Bara sasa Uroho wa Utajiri umevuka bahari na kutazama Zanzibar!.. Huko Zanzibar nako viongozi wanaona duh.. wakuu hizi zangu mimi nyie mnavuta Bara na sisi tuachieni huku, hakuna kiongozi mwenye kutazama maslahi ya nchi.. HAKUNA!
Ikiwa leo Bara pamoja na rasilimali zote hizo bado tupo nyuma kiuchumi hata Rwanda imeshaanza kutukimbia kweli jamani bado mna imani na viongozi wetu.. Kikwete alikuwa tegemeo la wengi lakini hadi leo hiii ameonyesha HAWEZI kuwa kiongozi bora! Pengine kiti cha IKULU hakihitaji MUUNGWANA kwani ktk mazingira yetu ya Umaskini ni moja ya udhaifu wa kiongozi.
Ushauri wangu wa Mwisho ni kwamba bado tuna wakati na nafasi kubwa ya kufanya Marekebisho.. Tuzitazame nchi nyingine na hasa Canada Muungano wao umejengwa vipi. Kuna Nchi kama Alberta ambazo ni tajiri kwa mafuta na uchumi wake unapanda juu kuliko sehemu nyingine zote, lakini bado kuna fungu huchangia ktk maendeleo ya sehemu maskini. Hivi majuzi Jimbo (nchi) jingine ambalo lilikuwa maskini ktk rasilimali wamevumbua pia mafuta (Saskachewan) na uchumi wake ghafla umepanda lakini hata siku moja hawakulalamikia umaskini wao kwa kuutazama Muungano na mfumo mzima wa Kiuchumi...
Pengine swala la Zanzibar ni zaidi ya hayo kama lilivyo jimbo la Quebec (jimbo la Kifaransa) ambao wao hujiona tofauti na wanataka UHURU wao wenyewe. Uhuru ambao unasukumwa na wanasiasa hali wananchi wake kwa hesabu kubwa wanataka kuwa ndani ya Muungano. Na kwa bahati mbaya kutokana na kujitenga kwao wao ndio maskini kupita province nyinginezo, uchumi wao ulianguka toka siku waliotangaza kutaka kujitenga..They never recovered!

By SALMA SAID and NOELLA OYUGAH
Posted Sunday, July 27 2008 at 00:00
Daily Nation Kenya.

The Revolutionary Government of Zanzibar issued its stance on the raging debate over the political status of Zanzibar, saying the Isles constituted a sovereign state.

This time around, the Isles’ government appears determined to defend its territorial political status, despite the fact that Zanzibar’s Constitution and that of the United Republic clearly state that the Spice Island is part of Tanzania.

Deputy Chief Minister Ali Juma Shamhuna on Saturday caught the attention of the world when he categorically denounced claims that Zanzibar is part of Tanzania.

Mr Shamhuna made his comments when responding to contributions made by Members of the House of Representatives when deliberating on the 2008/2009 budget speech.

Speaking for his ministry of Information, Culture and Sports, Mr Shamhuna said, “The subject on whether Zanzibar is a sovereign state or not has been exhaustively discussed…and I think we have the right to continue discussing it because Zanzibar is a sovereign state and it will continue retaining such status. We should not get tired of defending such status,” he said amid applause from Members of the House of Representatives.

He said Article 9 of the Zanzibar Constitution provided a clear picture of Zanzibar’s status, saying that Zanzibar had its own executive, legislature and judiciary which proved that the Island was a sovereign state.

More democratic states

Mr Shamhuna said he was surprised by those who issued statements claiming that Zanzibar was not a sovereign state, adding that no one had the authority to stop Zanzibaris from fighting for their rights.

“Currently, countries almost all over the world are transforming themselves into more democratic states. In doing so people in those countries no longer fear any one when searching for their rights,” he said.

He also condemned government officials trying to stop people from discussing the subject of Zanzibar’s sovereignty by saying that they would be guilty of treason.

The definition of sovereignty carries an absolute effect.

If Zanzibar is sovereign, why did it withdraw from OIC?

It seems to me they want t be sovereign, currently they are not.

Wazanzibari wanahoji madini mbona hawapewi gawio na yametengwa kabisa wala huruhusiwi kuhoji suala la madini na vito vyenye thamani ambavyo vinawaingizia mafisadi vijisenti kiasi ya kwamba walikuwa hawaulizani wewe umechota ngapi ?
Hivi hapa hamupaoni ? Kila siku waZanzibari wakihoji juu ya rasilimali hii mpaka wamegonga ukuta na ndio na wao wakamfurusha yule aliepelekwa eti akapatane na kuwaelezea kwa kina namna gawio la mafuta litakavyofanyika huku T/Bara wakimega asilimia kubwa na kuwaachia WaZenji kasehemu kadogo tu.
Kama ni vita na mabavu basi bora iwe hivyo lakini kupatana na kuwafanya WaZanzibari vipofu hilo limeshapitwa na wakati na karibuni watawatimua wale watu wa VATI ,na kuwambia kama feza wanayokusanya Tanganyika ambayo ni kubwa mara mia ya Zanzibar haiwatoshi basi hii ya hapa kwenye vijisiwa viwili vilivyo masikini haitawasaidia kitu ,warudi walikotoka wakaendeleze ufisadi.
Mtu anatakiwa aridhike na umasikini wake ili apige hatua moja mbele,Tanganyika bado haijaridhika ndio ukaona haiendelei mbele ,kila anaepata uongozi anakwiba kumshinda mwenzake na hata wakiondoka kwenye madaraka bado utawaona wapo pembeni ,hawakiendelezi kile walichokiiba ,kidogo Mh.Mkapa amejitenga na si mala nyingi kumwona kujihusisha husisha na mabo ya kisiasa ,nampa hongera mfano wa maraisi wa marekani akishaondoka kwenye Uraisi humuoni tena kuchomoza pua katika mambu ya siasa ,labda anahudhuria kama mgeni mualikwa lakini hapa petu ,jamaa akishamaliza basi utawaona wao ndio wako mstari wa mbele kumshinda Raisi alieko madarakani ,watu hawa ni hatari.
Zanzibar haina choyo na kupata Mafuta ,wala haibabaiki sana na kuwepo mafuta kwenye bahari zake ,hilo mlifahamu sana kwani wameridhika na umasikini wao ,lakini waTanganyika wameonekana kuwa wachoyo na wana siasa zile za Changu changu Chako Chetu ,hili sio jambo zuri na mnatakiwa mlifahamu ,hata mtoto mdogo wa shule ya vidudu ukimueleza kuwa mali asili za T/Bara hazimo katika suala la Muungano lakini Mafuta ya T/Visiwani yamo katika MUungano huyo mtoto atakujibu..basi mnawaibia na kuwadhulumu.

Mwiba,
Tatizo la Tanzania umeliweka kwa Wabara na Wazanzibar hapo kidogo mimi nakuwa mgumu kukubaliana na wewe pamoja na kwamba una sababu za maana kuweka hoja zako.
Wanaokalia Uchumi wa nchi hizi mbili hadi leo hii ni Viongozi. Uongozi wa Karume unavuna wasichokipanda huko Unguja na Pemba huku Bara tunao kina Mkapa ambao walihakikisha wanachukua kila kilicho pandwa. Hakuna mmoja wetu anayefaidika na kitu chochote, hivyo sidhani kama ni uungwana kutumia jina la Bara na Visiwani wakati adui wa haki zetu tunamruka kutafuta mchawi nje..

Kama jamiii moja ni muhimu tutazame matatizo ya Uongozi Tanzania kama TAIFA moja kwanza kabla hatujafika mbali. Madini ya Bara hayawapi manufaa wananchi wa bara wala sehemu zinazochimbwa zaidi ya kuwaachia Mashimo. Kilio ulichonacho wewe leo hii ndio wanacho hata wakazi wa Bulyanhulu, Mafia na kwingineko ambako rasilimali zao zinachotwa.
Mimi nadhani tatizo kubwa la Muungano sio mgao isipokuwa Uongozi wetu sote bara na Visiwani ambako kila mmoja wao anatazama maslahi yake. Tukianza kutenganisha makosa haya na Muungano nadhani tutafikia suluhu fulani kwa sababu ni MUHIMU kwanza kutambua Zanzibar ni nchi Kwa tafsiri yetu wenyewe sio ya mkoloni) na kuwapa madaraka yanayohusiana na Utawala mdogo ndani ya Jamhuri kama zilivyo nchi nyingezo ktk Muungano uwe wa Breat Britain, USA, Canada, Australia na kadhalika... Tusiige mfano mmoja tu.
Miungano ya nchi hizo imezifanya kuwa imara zaidi na hakuna hata mtu mmoja anaweza kusema leo ati Scotland sio nchi, ama Ontario sio nchi Canada ama Texas sio nchi Marekani kulingana na tafsiri ya katiba ya nchi hizo. sasa baada ya kuwa na tafsiri kamili ndipo nguvu ya serikali hujengwa kutazama maslahi ya eneo linalohusika. tatizo la Tanzania kwa sababu hatuna serikali tatu tumejenga Uhasama. Serikali kuu bado inapewa madaraka ama mamlaka ya territorial kiasi kwamba tumeshindwa kufahamu sheria inayoiziunganisha nchi hizi. Hadi leo hii kweli bado tumefikia kwamba mtu anataka kuipindua serikali ya Mapinduzi Zanzibar na kisheria imeshindikana kupatiwa ufumbuzi kwa sababu hawajui (kisheria) kama Zanzibar ni nchi..Huo mwanzo.

Tunapoongelea haya maswala ya mgao wa kiuchumi ni lazima tuwe makini sana. Mkuu hadi sasa hivi sikubaliani na ukweli kwamba madai ya Zanzibar yanaleta mantiki hasa pale tunapozingatioa kwamba hadi sasa Zanzibar wanafaidi mengi toka Bara kwa msemo usemao Changu Changu chenu chetu..Na bara wamekuwa ktk mfumo huo kukubali matokeo ya kutokuwa na serikali tatu.
Mimi naomba kitu kimoja tu. Msomi yeyote toka Zanzibar anambie Zanzibar haifaidiki vipi na Madini ya Bara kwa sababu hakuna madini yanayomilikiwa na serikali ya Bara isipokuwa watu binafsi ambao wanalipa Kodi... Je, ni ktk mchanganuo upi Wazanzibar wameweza kuona kwamba mchango wa madini kama kodi haufiki Zanzibar. Wameweza kutenganisha vipi mkusanyiko wa kodi zote na kutenga madini kuwa hawapewi kinachoingia kama kodi wakati Zanzibar ina wabunge wake ktk bunge la Taifa...
Naomba kueleimishwa katika hilo maanake yawezekana mimi natazama shilingi tofauti kabisa na ile walioishika Wazanzibar!

kichuguu said:

Hapa kuna kichekesho sana; inaonyesha jinsi gani watu waliopewa madaraka ya kuongoza nchi hii walivyo na upeo mfupi wa kuelewa mambo. Dola na serikali ni vitu viwili tofauti kabisa. Kuwa na serikali hakumaanishi kuwa hiyo ni dola, hata wakati wa mkoloni tulikuwa na serikali yetu ikiongozwa na Gavana, lakini hatukuwa dola, bali tulikuwa sehemu ya dola ya mwingireza. Dola inaongozwa na amiri jeshi mkuu wa majeshi ya ulinzi na usalama tu ambaye anaweza kuipeleka nchi vitani.

Kwa mfano katika nchi ya Marekani ambayo nayo imeundwa kwa muungano wa states kadhaa; kila state ina serikali yake pamoja na mabunge yote mawili, bendera yake, mkuu wa state, na mawaziri wake. Zaidi ya hapo, kila state ina jeshi lake la polisi (State trooper) na mahakama yake mpaka mahakama kuu ya state. Mahakama kuu ya state iko chini ya mahakama kuu ya Federal, uamuzi wa mahakama kuu ya state unaweza kutenguliwa na mahakama kuu ya Federal; nadhani sote tunakumbuka kuhusu maamuzi ya mahakama za State of Florida na Federal kuhusu vote recount katika uchaguzi wa mwaka 2000 na jinsi Federal walivyo-overide maamuzi ya mahakama ya State of Florida. Mkuu wa state pia ndiye amiri jeshi mkuu wa National Guard katika state yake, lakini madaraka yake hayo yako chini ya yale ya amiri jeshi mkuu wa majeshi yote ya ulinzi ya Marekani. Kwa hali hiyo, state hizo hazijiiti dola kwa sababu zote ziko chini ya amiri jeshi mmoja tu ambaye ni rais wa marekani.

Inawezekana kweli zanzibar ina serikali na kiongozi wa serikali pamoja na mahakama, na jeshi la KMKM lakini haina mamlaka ya kuingia vitani kwa vile mwamuzi wa mwisho kuipeleka nchi vitani ni amiri jeshi mkuu wa majeshi ya ulinzi na usalama anayeishi pale magogoni; huyo ndiye mwenye dola; Karume hana dola kabisa. Zanzibar siyo dola. wafuasi wake wanota dola hawa; amelewa madaraka sasa anataka zaidi.

Je hii purukushani ya kudai dola ni kutaka kukana mamlaka ya Kikwete ili asiwalazimishe kukamilisha mwafaka kati ya CCM na CUF?

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hizi chokochoko za muungano huwa zinawanufaisha watu fulani na ndiyo maana zinaendelezwa kwani baada ya muda itaundwa kamati na watu watakula. au kuna watu watapewa madaraka au hata pesa ili wakae kimya.
Mifano ipo mingi; mmoja wapo ni mgogolo kati ya CCM na CUF ambao unafadhiriwa na EU, hivi mnajua huwa wanapewa Euro kiasi gani? hebu fuatilieni ni nyingi!!!! huu mgogolo hauwezi kuisha!!!
Hili suala la Muungano mimi nafikiri watu wa Bara ndiyo wanapaswa kulalamika kwani Zanzibar wanapewa kila aina ya upendeleo. hebu fikiria Mbunge wa Zanzibar anawakilisha watu wangapi ukilinganisha na wa bara na wote wanalipwa sawa. na kule Zanzibar kuna Mbunge wa Bunge la Muungano na Mwakilishi wa Bunge la Zanzibar, hivi wanalalamika nini?
Badala yake nilifikiri wangebuni mbinu mbalimbali za kuinua uchumi wao (Zanzibar) badala ya kubishania suala lililowazi

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Zanzibar haiwezi kuwa a sovereign state ndani ya another sovereign state! Kuna nchi moja tu ambayo ni sovereign nayo ni Tanzania.

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..haya madai ya nchi yana maana moja tu,.......wanataka kujitenga.

..mi najiuliza, "wamefikiria hasara zake?" au ndio wanajidanganya?

..watanganyika = watanzania bara hawana ugomvi na kujitenga,ukiondoa wachache wanaotaka ku-preserve legacy ya mwl. ambao nadhani hawataki kukubali ukweli kuwa zama zile zilishapita,na kama issue ilikuwa kuzuia usoshalisti usienezwe na babu & co,basi hayo yalishapita. hata ujerumani zimeungana. tukitengana haitakuwa dhambi.

..politically zanzibar si stable hata kidogo, na wakijitenga wataona cha "mtoto akililia wembe"!

..inawezekana pia hii ndio sababu serikali ya muungano haishabiki mambo haya. haitaki mambo ya kuja kuombwa msaada wa kuilinda serikali zanzibar.

Zanzibar hawataki kujitenga , ila matatizo wanayoyadai kwa muda mrefu ndio inaonekana wanataka kujitenga, tunakubaliana kwamba Hizi ni nchi mbili zilizoungana ,habari za makubaliano ni kuwa Tanganyika wamekubali kwa ridhaa yao kutoliendeleza taifa lao ama kwa ujanja ama kwa hila flani flani ambazo unaweza kuziona waziwazi,Zanzibar walitaka Taifa lao liendelee liwe na mahakama,chombo chake cha sheria na vikosi vya ulinzi.
Moja ya makubaliano ambayo ndio mzizi wa fitna ni hili la kumfanya Raisi wa Zanzibar au Serikali ya Mapinduzi kuwa si lolote si chochote wakati makubaliano yanasema awe ni makamo wa kwanza wa Raisi ,kiasi cha kuipa heshima Zanzibar kama Taifa ,hilo limeondolewa kinyemela nyemela au kwa nguvu na mabavu na mbinu pamoja na mikakati.
Mwana maelewano mwenzangu Mkandara amesema na kudai kuwa Tanganyika haina au haimiliki mgodi ,sasa nikimuuliza haya mambo ya mafisadi yaliyozuka na kuihusisha serikali na viongozi wake yalitokea wapi na kwa nini kuna viongozi wanashutumiwa na kadhia hizo na wengine kufika kujiuzulu ,hawa ni viongozi wa Serikali ambao wamehusishwa moja kwa moja au kwa njia nyengine ,mikataba ya uchimbuaji wa migodi hii ni Lazima ipitie serikalini na kuna kiasi fulani cha faida ya mauzo kinaingia serikalini mbali ya kodi na kuna mtaji ambao unakuwepo serikalini ,haya ni mambo mbali mbali ambayo Serikali ya Muungano inakusanya kama hilo la BOT kuna kodi kuna riba kuna faida na na na nyingi tu zaidi kuna net profit ambayo hapo ndipo panapoleta utata,ni juzi tu mumesikia kwa masikio kuwa Zanzibar hawastahiki kupewa chochote kutokana na faida za BOT ,hapo mtasemaje ? Wengi wa Viongozi wa Muungano ni wa kupita kila Raisi anakuja na kundi lake na kuondoka lakini kwa Upande wa Zanzibar bado kuna usulutani mambo leo ,ukitazama viongozi ni wale wale wanabadilika maraisi tu wale wengine hubadilishwa mawizara kwa hiyo dataz za mambo ya Zanzibar wanakuwa nazo na wameshazihifadhi wanajua tokea mapinduzi mpaka hapa walipofikia ni jambo gani na gani lilipita ,akina tambwe Hiza wanaotetea kuwa Zanzibar si Nchi na akina Pinda na wengine wengi tu ni watu wajuzi juzi ambao naamini wengine hata Zanzibar hawajawahi kufika na kuisikia kwao ni kupitia vyombo vya habari na walipoanza kuivaa siasa ,msimamo wangu ni kuwa viongozi wa Ungujawanayajua mambo kuliko akina Pinda,tumeona Pinda alivyoingia mitini na kukimbia masuali si kwamba haijui Katiba lakini mengi yanayohusiana na mambo ya makubaliano ya Muungano Pinda na wenziwe ni wageni kwao hawawezi kushindana na kubishana hata kidogo na watu ambao wamekulia katika kujenga,kushauriana na kukubaliana ,hata Kikwete naamini hana ujuzi mkubwa wa mambo ya Muungano tokea yalipoanza tofauti na kina Shamhuna na Seif Sharifu watu ambao ni washiriki wa awali juu ya makubaliano ya muungano na wanazo kumbukumbu tokea wakati wa Nyerere muda ambao Mawaziri wengi walikuwa hawajulikani pengine walikuwa hata hawajamliza kusoma ,sasa kwa mambo kama haya akina Kawawa ,kidogo Kingunnge na akina Salim ndio wanayoyajua na wanaoweza kusema wakaeleweka sio akina Tambwe watu wa vibarazani wanakuja kusema Zanzibar sio nchi kisa eti wamesoma kwenye Katiba na kuonyesha mistari ,ukiwauliza mistari hiyo ilipitishwa vipi Bungeni 100% watakuwa hawana jibu.
Mimi naamini Pinda alikosea au aliteleza na alipoambiwa hivyo alitaka kuonyesha kwamba hakuteleza wala hakujikwaa na matatizo yake ameyaona sasa ,leo hii hataki hata kidogo kusikia anaulizwa suali kuhusiana na Muungano kwani maji ni mazito kuyavuka,baada ya Pinda kusema kuhusu Muungano ,niliwaambia hapa hapa kuwa wanaoweza kumjibu Pinda ni CUF na wamemjibu na ujumbe umefika hata kwa CCM Zanzibar ,ujumbe wa CUF uliotumwa na Seif Sharif umewafika na kuwaingia kichwani na sasa wanasema Zanzibar ni Nchi ,hao ni CCM Zanzibar wakati CCM bara wameshaziba midomo na kusema tuwaachie wanasheria wakuu wakutane na kwa ufupi hiyo sio dawa dawa ni serikali tatu mnataka ya Tanganyika chukueni hamtaki mtajiju.

Mwiba,

Kwanza napenda nikushukuru kwa uchambuzi wako yakinifu, ila mimi nilikuwa na swali moja tuu . Tafadhali nakuomba unipe maana( definition ) ya neno nchi .

Mwiba said:

...watu wa vibarazani wanakuja kusema Zanzibar sio nchi kisa eti wamesoma kwenye Katiba na kuonyesha mistari ,ukiwauliza mistari hiyo ilipitishwa vipi Bungeni 100% watakuwa hawana jibu.

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Kwa hiyo Wazanzibar hawatambui uhalali wa Katiba nzima, si ndio? Ila wanavikubali vile vipengele vinavyowapa over-representation kwenye cabinet ya Muungano, na kwenye Bunge (wabunge woooote wa Zanzibar wana represent kaeneo kadogo kuliko wilaya moja ya Kahama) na wanakubali vipengele vinavyowafanya wabunge wao wapige kura kuhusu mambo ya watu wa Bara and so on and so forth (manake Bara hawana Bunge lao).

Sasa mtu ambae anakubali vipengele fulani fulani tu vya Katiba huyo utamwita jina gani huyo mtu?

Halafu Mwiba, je wewe unajua kile kipengele alicho kinukuu Pinda, Ibara ya Kwanza, unajua kilipitishwa vipi, na kilitakiwa kipitishwe vipi? Umesema kin Pinda hawana jibu, wewe unalo?

Mwiba said:

Moja ya makubaliano ambayo ndio mzizi wa fitna ni hili la kumfanya Raisi wa Zanzibar au Serikali ya Mapinduzi kuwa si lolote si chochote wakati makubaliano yanasema awe ni makamo wa kwanza wa Raisi ,kiasi cha kuipa heshima Zanzibar kama Taifa ,hilo limeondolewa kinyemela nyemela au kwa nguvu na mabavu na mbinu pamoja na mikakati.

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Mwiba,

..ni vigumu kwa Raisi wa ZNZ kuwa Makamu wa kwanza wa Raisi kwasababu hapigiwi kura nchi nzima. anapigiwa kura na wa-znz peke yao.

..pia kuna uwezekano Raisi wa Muungano akatoka ktk chama tofauti na Raisi wa ZNZ.

..Makamu wa Raisi ndiyo 1st in line kukaimu au ku-succeed[ikiwa raisi atashindwa kutawala] nafasi ya Raisi wa Muungano.

..kutakuwa na utata mkubwa ikiwa Raisi na Makamu wake wanatoka vyama tofauti.

..badala ya kulalamika kuwa Raisi wa ZNZ siyo Makamu wa Raisi ni bora utuletee mapendekezo ya hatua za kuchukua kuepuka utata nilioulezea.

Wapenzi wasomaji wa JF, Niwatake radhi kwa kuotkuwepo kwangu kwa kipindi kidogo.

Suala la Zanzibar halijatulitulia machoni pa wananchi wengi.
Naona tu tuvunje tu huu muungano.

Hili suala la muungano limefikia hatua mbaya ni vema sasa lijadiliwe kwa mapana yake na marefu.
Maana kwa ulimwengu wa sasa kuwa na umoja ni kitu muhimu sana lakini hii serikali ya Zanzibar au viongozi wake wana matatizo. Maana kama manufaa ya muungano wao ndiyo wanaonufaika zaidi tazama wanalo baraza la wawakilishi ambalo hakuna muwakilishi hata mmoja kutoka bara .
Wakati bara hakuna baraza kama hilo na katika bunge la jamuhur ya muongano wanao wabunge wao wanao wawakilisha mimi binafsi sijui ni kitu gani kinachowakwaza huduma nyingi pia wanapata kutoka bara,

Hey East AFrica, Zanzibar is not sovereign. you, especially non tzs should get the constitution of the united Republic of tz and read it well. Zanzibar is neither a state not sovereign or whatsoever, its more or less a province of Tz like Arusha, Dar or Kilimanjaro. the thing which is happening here is that, the zanzibaris want to depart from Tanzania mainland because they think they are sufficient of themselves cuasue of discovery of oil in Pemba, so wanataka wayafaidi yale mafuta with exclusion of watz mainland. Na kweli kuna mafuta mengi sana kule na kama zanzibar wakiamua kujitenga na tz wakayachimba, kila raia wao atakuwa tajiri sana kwasababu utajiri wao utakuwa mkubwa kuliko uwingi wa watu. zanzibar is below 1 mil. population. it is not easy for them to be independent from Tanzania unless the constitution of the United Rep.of tz is amended to exclude it.

Idadi kubwa ya wananchi wanaoishi pemba na znz hawajui faida za muungano na kuungana kutokana kwanza na mila na tamaduni zao zinazoanzia katika dini ya kiisilamu , hakuna taifa lolote la kiisilamu lililoungana na kuwa stable na mwingine , angalia morocco na western sahara , angalia mataifa ya kiarabu yanavyolaumiana kila siku na mashariki ya kati sio shwari mpaka leo hiyo ni culture ya kiisilamu .

Kutokana na hiyo sababu ya kwanza , kuhusu mila na desturi zao haziko imara , uimara huu ndio unasababisha mpaka viongozi wao wachache wanaopata nafasi ya kwenda kujiendeleza nje ndio wanalaghaiwa na masultani wa kiarabu kuja kudai muungano uvunjwe , hawa wakija kule kwanza hawaishi kule watakuja kutawala vizazi vyako vijavyo na siajabu hata wewe wakakumalizia mbali wao wanachotaka ni masilahi yao ya kibiashara .

Kwahiyo tumeona znz kuna mafuta , Hali inakuwa ya utata zaidi vuai anasema suala la muungano halihusiani na mafuta , je huko znz kuna wataalamu gani wa kuendeleza hayo mafuta kama hawatatoka nchi za nje haswa za magharibi waje kuwapiganisha vita ? mfano wa Angola na Nigeria nchi zina mafuta na madini mpaka leo hazijaona maendeleo yoyote zaid ya ufisadi na vita ya wenyewe kwa wenyewe , kwahiyo suala la kuwa na wataalamu wao wenyewe wa mafuta na nishati lipewe kipao mbele .

Sala la mwisho na la muhimu zaidi ni kuhusu ulinzi na usalama , znz kama nchi zingine zote sio salama na ulinzi wake hauaminiki , sasa tukiwapa uhuru wao wa kujiamulia vitu inaweza kugeuka kama Lebanon kule Lebanon Hezbollah wamechukuwa nchi na kwenda kuishambulia Israel , sasa inawezekana jahazi asilia wakichukuwa znz muungano ukifa wanaweza kuichokoza Kenya au kuishambulia hata tanganyika tu kwa kusudi .

Hapo mwanzo nimesema hawa wana mila na desturi za kiisilamu ambazo kuuwana au kuuwa ni jadi yao toka enzi hizo , kwahiyo kuwapa uhuru lazima kwanza tuangalie jinsi gani ya kubadilisha mawazo yao kuwa ya kisasa zaidi sio kutengeza magaidi kama ilivyo nchi zingine Somalia na kadhalika .

NAONA TUNAISHIWA NA HOJA NA KUANZA KUTUKANANA KUSIKO NA FAIDA . HII NI KINYUME NA MWENENDO WA UKUMBI HUU AMBAPO HOJA HUTAWALA BADALA YA MATUSI. NAOMBA KUFAHAMISHA KUWA KUGENERALIZE MAMBO NI KUBAYA KWANI TOFAUTI YA WATU WA VISIWANI NA SEHEMU NYINGI ZA BARA HAKUNA.
1.UNAPOUOWANISHA UISLAMU NA MADAI YA ZANZIBAR UNA MAANA GANI WAKATI HATA HIVI SASA TUNAONGOZWA NA MUISLAMU NA IIDADI TU KARIBU SAWA. SASA LENGO NI WAISLAMU AU WAZANZIBARI?.
2.KUZUNGUMZIA KUWA HAKUNA NCHI YA KIISLAMU ILIYOUNGANA, HEBU TUULIZANE ULIMWENGU HUU KUNA NCHI GANI ILIYOBAKI NA MUUNGANO WACHILIA HIZO NCHI ZA KIISLAMU. jEE URUSI, YUGOSLAVIA,CANADA NA BELGIUM NI NCHI ZA KIISLAMU? NA JEE UNA UHAKIKA KUWA NCHI KAMA MORROCO NI NCHI YA KIISLAMU?
3.WAPEMBA KWENDA ULAYA KWANI NIWAO TU WALIOKO HUKO ,WATANZANIA WENGINE HAWAENDI?
4.SUALA LA WATAALAMU JEE HATA UPANDE MWENGINE WA MUUNGANO WANA WATAALAMU HAO SI TUNAJUA SOTE KUWA KUNA MAKAMPUNI YA NJE YANAYOFANYA KAZI HIYO? NA HILO SUALA LA UMEME UMESAHAU RICHMOND NA DOWANS?
5 SUALA LA MAUWAJI, SI KWELI KUWA UISLAMU NDIO UNAOSABABISHA MAUWAJI BALI NI UTAMADUNI WA WATU.IVYO KATI YA ZANZIBAR NA BARA NI WAPI KWENYE VITENDO VYA UKATILI? UNASAHAU KUCHUNANA NGOZI NA MAUWAJIYA MAALBINO YAKO WAPI? ZANZIBAR HULUMBANA KISIASA WENYEWE KWA WENYEWE LAKINI WANAOUWA NI NANI? ULIZA MAUWAJI YA 1964 YALIFANYWA NA KINANANI NA MAUWAJI YA 2000 YALIFANYWA NA NANI? FANYA UTAFITI NA UANGALIE TANZANIA BARA SEHEMU GANI KUNA UKATILI ZAIDI NA HAPO UANGALIE JEE SEHEMU HIZO NI WANAZOISHI WAISLAMU WENGI AU LA.
INASIKITISHA KUWA UKUMBI KAMA HUU UNAINGILIWA NA WATU WASIO NA MTAZAMO WA YALE WANAYOYAONGEA NA WASHIRIKI WANANYAMAZA KIMYA. TULUMBANE KWA HOJA ZA KUJENGA SIO ZA KUBOMOA KWANI NAAMINI LENGO LA UKUMBI HUU NI KUENDELEZA TAIFA NA JAMII YETU.

Longa Ba Mwiba Hebu Wajuvye Hao Wasuiojua Neno Wakakimbilia Kwenye Maana.

Zanzibar, Tanganyika and the Union
G. Madaraka Nyerere
Daily News; Sunday,July 27, 2008 @14:26

Today, I take on the difficult task of attempting to avoid prolonging the debate on Zanzibar as well as arguing why the debate should continue, if only in a slightly different direction. The debate was precipitated in parliament during the current session.

In answering a question by a Member of Parliament on why Zanzibar cannot join the Organisation of Islamic States (OIC), the prime minister responded in Kiswahili: "Zanzibar siyo nchi…" unaware that he had signalled the beginning of an emotional debate on both sides of the Zanzibar Channel.

If you turn to a dictionary, you would arrive at the following translation of those three words: Zanzibar is not a country. The English translation has become: Zanzibar is not a state. He also went on to say that it is the United Republic of Tanzania, the union between Tanganyika and Zanzibar, which can apply to join such an organization.

A few weeks later and several heated counterarguments later, hardly anyone would remember that part of the prime minister's answer has now become the fundamental question and the original question has been entirely forgotten - at least for now.

I will not go into the discussion of whether Zanzibar is a state or not because I believe it is not relevant to what I argue and that should satisfy those who have said that this debate is now closed. But it is fair to ask a few questions, because although CCM wants this debate closed it will not go away easily.

The point is this: Zanzibar is what it is regardless of what Prime Minister Mizengo Pinda said or did not say. Tanganyika is what it is, what it was, regardless of what anyone says about Tanganyika. The United Republic of Tanzania is what it is for now, but what it becomes depends on what Tanzanians eventually decide and this appears to be where the debate is driving at. The debate is not about what Zanzibar is, but what some feel it ought to be in the Union with Tanganyika.

If one accepts that it is possible for constitutional experts to define the legal position of Zanzibar, Tanganyika and Tanzania, then when that happens we should expect that the debate will be concluded or rather should focus on whether that status is acceptable to both sides. However, it appears that even that will not conclude this debate and so it becomes tempting to conclude that the debate is fuelled by politics.

There is no single all-encompassing definition of a state or a country and that is why one has to wonder why we are even debating whether Zanzibar is a state or not. One cannot create a basket of states and put the United States and the Vatican in the same basket. And yet I don't see why when the heads of state and government are asked to stand before an audience, the Pope should hesitate to stand up confidently together with the US president.

If one accepts that politics, rather than constitutional considerations, could be driving this debate, then Tanzanians have a right to demand that the real issues should be placed on the table and discussed frankly and openly. In my ethnic group, the Zanaki, we have a saying: mbisa bisa oburuweri ekiriro kiramburra. Many Tanzanians know the translation: He who hides an illness, will be shamed by the mourning (at his death).

The decision by CCM to close this debate is tantamount to hiding an illness, whose current symptom is whether or not Zanzibar is a state. Underneath the symptom, there is a cancer that keeps on growing and any Tanzania should be excused to conclude that there are half-heated efforts to cure this tumour or to put the patient under the operating table to remove the cancer. We don't want to be taken by surprise by the death of Tanzania if that is eventually what Tanzanians want.

We just have a right to have an honest and open day-by-day account of the status of the Union so that when we mourn the Union, the discussions at the funeral will be on other matters, not the witches. At most Zanaki funerals, the deceased never dies from natural causes or illness; there is usually a witch who has been commissioned by someone or taken the deceased's life just for the fun of it.

Ngekewa said:

Zanzibar, Tanganyika and the Union
G. Madaraka Nyerere
Daily News; Sunday,July 27, 2008 @14:26

Today, I take on the difficult task of attempting to avoid prolonging the debate on Zanzibar as well as arguing why the debate should continue, if only in a slightly different direction. The debate was precipitated in parliament during the current session.

In answering a question by a Member of Parliament on why Zanzibar cannot join the Organisation of Islamic States (OIC), the prime minister responded in Kiswahili: "Zanzibar siyo nchi…" unaware that he had signalled the beginning of an emotional debate on both sides of the Zanzibar Channel.

If you turn to a dictionary, you would arrive at the following translation of those three words: Zanzibar is not a country. The English translation has become: Zanzibar is not a state. He also went on to say that it is the United Republic of Tanzania, the union between Tanganyika and Zanzibar, which can apply to join such an organization.

A few weeks later and several heated counterarguments later, hardly anyone would remember that part of the prime minister's answer has now become the fundamental question and the original question has been entirely forgotten - at least for now.

I will not go into the discussion of whether Zanzibar is a state or not because I believe it is not relevant to what I argue and that should satisfy those who have said that this debate is now closed. But it is fair to ask a few questions, because although CCM wants this debate closed it will not go away easily.

The point is this: Zanzibar is what it is regardless of what Prime Minister Mizengo Pinda said or did not say. Tanganyika is what it is, what it was, regardless of what anyone says about Tanganyika. The United Republic of Tanzania is what it is for now, but what it becomes depends on what Tanzanians eventually decide and this appears to be where the debate is driving at. The debate is not about what Zanzibar is, but what some feel it ought to be in the Union with Tanganyika.

If one accepts that it is possible for constitutional experts to define the legal position of Zanzibar, Tanganyika and Tanzania, then when that happens we should expect that the debate will be concluded or rather should focus on whether that status is acceptable to both sides. However, it appears that even that will not conclude this debate and so it becomes tempting to conclude that the debate is fuelled by politics.

There is no single all-encompassing definition of a state or a country and that is why one has to wonder why we are even debating whether Zanzibar is a state or not. One cannot create a basket of states and put the United States and the Vatican in the same basket. And yet I don't see why when the heads of state and government are asked to stand before an audience, the Pope should hesitate to stand up confidently together with the US president.

If one accepts that politics, rather than constitutional considerations, could be driving this debate, then Tanzanians have a right to demand that the real issues should be placed on the table and discussed frankly and openly. In my ethnic group, the Zanaki, we have a saying: mbisa bisa oburuweri ekiriro kiramburra. Many Tanzanians know the translation: He who hides an illness, will be shamed by the mourning (at his death).

The decision by CCM to close this debate is tantamount to hiding an illness, whose current symptom is whether or not Zanzibar is a state. Underneath the symptom, there is a cancer that keeps on growing and any Tanzania should be excused to conclude that there are half-heated efforts to cure this tumour or to put the patient under the operating table to remove the cancer. We don't want to be taken by surprise by the death of Tanzania if that is eventually what Tanzanians want.

We just have a right to have an honest and open day-by-day account of the status of the Union so that when we mourn the Union, the discussions at the funeral will be on other matters, not the witches. At most Zanaki funerals, the deceased never dies from natural causes or illness; there is usually a witch who has been commissioned by someone or taken the deceased's life just for the fun of it.

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Nakubaliana naye aslimia 100.....

Although nina wasiwasi kama nitakuwa HAI wakati tukiomboleza muungano kwani kifo cha MUUNGANO wetu ama UTANZANIA wetu kitatokea baada nami kufa kwa ajili yake.....

Tanzanianjema

Kwa mtazamo wangu (hata kama ni finyu) hakuna kitu cha kipumbavu kilichowahi kutokea duniani kama KUUNG'ANG'ANIA MUUNGANO. Inawezekana muungano ulikuwa sahihi wakati ule lakini sasa hivi haufai kabisa, kwa sababu
-ni Wazanzibari wachache tu wanaokubaliana nao wakati asilimia kubwa hawautaki.
-Halafu kitu kingine ni kwamba watu wengi Zenji wangependa nchi yao iwe ya kiislamu wakati Tanganyika watu wangependa isifuate dini yoyote (au wangependa iwe ya kikristo?)
-ZANZIBARI imeshaanza kufikiriwa kuwa si nchi!!!!
-Tanganyika Mafisadi kibao, Zanzibar wachache (nadhani msimamo wa waisilamu katika dini yao unasaidia hapa) hawa jamaa hawatanii kama Tz ingekuwa ya kiislamu mafisadi wote wangepigwa mawe mpaka wafe!! teh! teh!
Nina sababu elfu moja na moja za kutoutaka huu muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar lakini nitaendelea baadae kidogo, nakuja sasa hivi, nisubirini!!!!!
CHEERS!!!

okon said:

Kwa mtazamo wangu (hata kama ni finyu) hakuna kitu cha kipumbavu kilichowahi kutokea duniani kama KUUNG'ANG'ANIA MUUNGANO. Inawezekana muungano ulikuwa sahihi wakati ule lakini sasa hivi haufai kabisa, kwa sababu
-ni Wazanzibari wachache tu wanaokubaliana nao wakati asilimia kubwa hawautaki. !

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Kwa taarifa yako tafiti zote zilizofanyika Zanzibar, zikiwmo za REDET, Presidential Commitee na hata wasomi binafsi zinaonyesha kuwa ni wazanzibari wachache sana wasiotaka muungano. Na wengi wao sio kwa ajili ya mantiki ya muungano huo bali upeo wao mdogo wa kupima uzito wa umuhimu wa muungano na ugoigoi wa kutatua changamoto zilizomo katika muungano. Kitu ambacho hawakitaki ni mfumo huu wa serikali mbili ambao kwao wao na ni kweli kuwa unawapa advantage Watanganyika na kuwabana wao katika masuala mbali ikiwemo nafasi yao ya kujichagulia viongozi wao......

Tanzanianjema