My view on Kenya elevated express toll roads

[Tony254]

What clear picture are you presenting, what factors are you talking about.
You are just going in circle.
Haujaweza toa maelezo yoyote ya why Express road is better than SGR.

Kwa nini una mentality ya kitoto ya kudhani kwamba Kenya haiwezi kujenga both expressway na metro rail? Kwamba lazima tuchague moja. Ama ni kwa vile unatudharau? Unadhani hatuna huo uwezo?

 

[MK254]

Ina maana hii link huja iona ama?

https://www.kenyans.co.ke/news...buses-schedule-nairobi-estates

Umeanzisha uzi na kuomba usichangiwe kishabiki ila wewe mwenyewe ukaanza ushabiki hata kuwazidi malofa wa kwenu ambao huwa tunawajibu humu, unaambiwa hiyo blog haiko sahihi maana hizo taarifa sio kweli, mimi mwenyewe naishi maeneo jirani na sehemu kunakojengwa stendi za mwendo kasi, tunaona shughuli kila siku, mji wote hamna sehemu ambapo tumeanza usafiri wa mwendo kasi, hivyo acha kung'ang'ania pale unaporekebishwa.

Umesababisha uzi mzuri kama huu ubadilike na kuwa ushabiki wa kijinga, watu wangejifunza mengi humu, sijui huwa mumerogwa na nani nyie MATAGA, hamna chochote mnaweza kujadili kitaalamu na kuelimishana.

 

[Kifaru_07]

I have to ask, how old are you? Maana naweza kuwa na waste my time with you here.

Unachobisha ni mabasi 12, kuwepo kwa hiyo route, aina ya mabasi ama nini haswa? Maana naona link imejieleza vizuri.

Au ilimradi tu kubisha.

I think you are not familiar with Nairobi. Mtu hajui nairobi and its factors thinks the expressway is the only plan in Nairobi and nothing else.
1. Nairobi already has a railway network. This network has lots of space for expansion of trains tracks and reaches many corners of Nairobi. No need of taking mombasa road reserve to put a train and there is already a space dedicated for trains running the same direction to JKIA. Construction starts this year too, similar to Senegal's.
2. Mombasa road is Kenya's main road and connects coast to rift to western. There is a lot of transit traffic that is not commuters going to work. So if a train is built, very many other vehicles like lorries, delivery vans will not use metro train. Congestion remains. So it needs more than one solution together: expand road and add BRT
3. Metro train is expensive and domt make any profit. profitable metro light trains are rare and doing PPP is hard. New 27km metro has just been completed in pakistan at a cost of $1b. Kenya has more urgent use of $1b in other sectors.
4. BRT has been found to actually be more effective than trrain and at a cheaper price. They can be flexible on routes, easy to build and carry more people. This expressway has BRT.

 

[Don YF]

Umeanzisha uzi na kuomba usichangiwe kishabiki ila wewe mwenyewe ukaanza ushabiki hata kuwazidi malofa wa kwenu ambao huwa tunawajibu humu, unaambiwa hiyo blog haiko sahihi maana hizo taarifa sio kweli, mimi mwenyewe naishi maeneo jirani na sehemu kunakojengwa stendi za mwendo kasi, tunaona shughuli kila siku, mji wote hamna sehemu ambapo tumeanza usafiri wa mwendo kasi, hivyo acha kung'ang'ania pale unaporekebishwa.

Umesababisha uzi mzuri kama huu ubadilike na kuwa ushabiki wa kijinga, watu wangejifunza mengi humu, sijui huwa mumerogwa na nani nyie MATAGA, hamna chochote mnaweza kujadili kitaalamu na kuelimishana.

Jamaa ni mjanja, tangu expressway ianze kujengwa wamekerwa sana, sasa wanajaribu kuikosoa na hawana ata moja, afadhali Uganda waongee. Walipiga kelele na ka simple three level crisscross road eti msumari ambayo itachukua Kenya miaka 100 kujenga, na expressway will be shelved due to Kenya's debts, sasa inajengwa imekua ni jambo mbaya., They look at Kenya through Tanzanian low standards economy lenses., read their comments, totally erroneous perspective. Wakiona ukweli wana kimya ama kutafuta Kibera na Turkana.

 

[Geza Ulole]

I think you are not familiar with Nairobi. Mtu hajui nairobi and its factors thinks the expressway is the only plan in Nairobi and nothing else.
1. Nairobi already has a railway network. This network has lots of space for expansion of trains tracks and reaches many corners of Nairobi. No need of taking mombasa road reserve to put a train and there is already a space dedicated for trains running the same direction to JKIA. Construction starts this year too, similar to Senegal's.
2. Mombasa road is Kenya's main road and connects coast to rift to western. There is a lot of transit traffic that is not commuters going to work. So if a train is built, very many other vehicles like lorries, delivery vans will not use metro train. Congestion remains. So it needs more than one solution together;expand road and add BRT
3. Metro train is expensive and domt make any profit. profitable metro light trains are rare and doing PPP is hard. New 27km metro whas just been completed in pakistan at a cost of $1b.
4. BRT has been found to actually be more effective than trrain and at a cheaper price. They can flexible on routes, easy to build and carry more people. This expressway has BRT.

The fact is mna miradi ya kipoyoyo! nadhani Sonko had a point on the general wisdom of Uhuru

 

[Tony254]

The fact is mna miradi ya kipoyoyo! nadhani Sonko had a point on the general wisdom of Uhuru

Mbona mnataka tujenge rail kwenye road reserve as if hatuna rail reserve? Nyinyi Malazy saa zingine huwa mumechanganyikiwa. Sisi tuna enough rail reserve ya kujenga two way metro rail kuelekea JKIA. Road ijengwe kwenye road reserve na rail ijengwe kwenye rail reserve. Simple. Nyinyi hata hamna rail reserve hapo Dar ndio maana mnafikiri kwamba kila nchi haina rail reserve.

 

[Geza Ulole]

Mbona mnataka tujenge rail kwenye road reserve as if hatuna rail reserve? Nyinyi Malazy saa zingine huwa mumechanganyikiwa. Sisi tuna enough rail reserve ya kujenga two way metro rail kuelekea JKIA. Road ijengwe kwenye road reserve na rail ijengwe kwenye rail reserve. Simple.

See futuristic plan even before BRT phases IV, V and VI have started, Though the Morocco-Mwenge road expansion is not a BRT project, it has put under consideration BRT infrastructure in that 4.3 km section! Even Mwenge to Tegeta has left a wide median section for BRT lanes! From the design below hata authorities wakiamua kujenga another metroline on top wanaweza since median section ipo!

Mkiambiwa mna upoyoyo na utopolo kichwani mnabisha! U need to have economized that precious space for other future uses, hizo pillar aisee zingewezwa kuwa placed na kuacha enough space for another infrastructure be it a metro train or BRT lanes! Ila huwezi ona kwa vile na wewe ni Mumuu! That toll express viaduct alone won't sort out traffic! believe me, iyo corridor space hapo itakuja ku-grow a slum as haiko planned for better uses!

Ni kama Mchina anataka ku-collect his money by force na amekuja na design ya kuzuia any sort of competition on that corridor! Do u guys have land planners or architectures or everything is left for Chinese to decide!? halafu unakaa unachekelea huu upumbavu kama hujawahi kupata exposure ulipokuwa Czech Republic! Shame on u Tony254 !

 

[Tz boy 4tino]

Nyangau be humble

 

[MK254]

Jamaa ni mjanja, tangu expressway ianze kujengwa wamekerwa sana, sasa wanajaribu kuikosoa na hawana ata moja, afadhali Uganda waongee. Walipiga kelele na ka simple three level crisscross road eti msumari ambayo itachukua Kenya miaka 100 kujenga, na expressway will be shelved due to Kenya's debts, sasa inajengwa imekua ni jambo mbaya., They look at Kenya through Tanzanian low standards economy lenses., read their comments, totally erroneous perspective. Wakiona ukweli wana kimya ama kutafuta Kibera na Turkana.

Hii itawauma sana maana ni showstopper ya wao kung'ang'ania kuifikia Kenya, ni muundo mbinu ambao hauna mfano wake ukanda huu, na hadi wao wapate kitu kama hiki labda ipite miaka 50 ijayo, ndo pia walivyoponda SGR yetu, iliwauma sana kuona tayari tunateleza kwa SGR, wakaanzisha uzushi ooh mara Mchina amepewa bandari mara hiki mara kile, ila leo wameufyata.
Wao walijitutumua eti wajenge SGR kasafu kadogo tu 200km kamekua wimbo tangu sijui mwaka upi tukiambiwa katakua tayari na kuanza kutumika, leo naona nyuzi zinafunguliwa kwenye jukwaa lao la siasa, nyuzi za kutia huzuni kwa kweli, check hii Dalili za mvua ni mawingu: Mradi wa SGR hautakamilika wote ndani ya utawala wa Magufuli

 

[Geza Ulole]

Nyangau be humble

sisi hatuiti kituo chetu cha SGR terminus bali ni SGR Terminal/station!

 

[Geza Ulole]

Hii itawauma sana maana ni showstopper ya wao kung'ang'ania kuifikia Kenya, ni muundo mbinu ambao hauna mfano wake ukanda huu, na hadi wao wapate kitu kama hiki labda ipite miaka 50 ijayo, ndo pia walivyoponda SGR yetu, iliwauma sana kuona tayari tunateleza kwa SGR, wakaanzisha uzushi ooh mara Mchina amepewa bandari mara hiki mara kile, ila leo wameufyata.
Wao walijitutumua eti wajenge SGR kasafu kadogo tu 200km kamekua wimbo tangu sijui mwaka upi tukiambiwa katakua tayari na kuanza kutumika, leo naona nyuzi zinafunguliwa kwenye jukwaa lao la siasa, nyuzi za kutia huzuni kwa kweli, check hii Dalili za mvua ni mawingu: Mradi wa SGR hautakamilika wote ndani ya utawala wa Magufuli

and yet that garimoshi SGR Kenya is minting losses year out year in like no ones' business even where it has no competition at the moment! U need to learn more how developed cities managed to build meaningful public infrastructure!

Na si huu utopolo...

 

[NairobiWalker]

Oooo!!bado unaongelea wale wahuni wanaopachika habari zao opera news, sasa hapa kumbe napoteza mda wangu..

Yani mada ya NAMATA lkn maelezo unataka tutumie ya kenya.co.ke..

Sasawa mzee baba, endelea kupiga kelele tu

Yani yeye ndiye ana utoto alafu anasema una utoto. Habari itoke NAMATA, maelezo yatoke Kenya.co.ke. 🤣🤣🤣

 

[Tony254]

Huu mradi umewakata maini Watanzania. Poleni sana ndugu zetu.

 

[Mkikuyu- Akili timamu]

Huu mradi umewakata maini Watanzania. Poleni sana ndugu zetu.

The solution to mombasa road ni kutoa roundabout ya pale lusaka road, ya uhuru highway na ya pale Nairobi university. There is no traffic from outskirts into cbd via A02..Eastern bypass shunts all traffic from Central and northern kenya heading to mombasa Southern for all mombasa traffic heading to western..
Shinda ya A02 ni Subaru boys wa South C utawala south b etc

 

[Chamoto]

USA kwa mfano watu wengi wanamiliki magari yao binafsi...kule usafiri wa umma ni wa kizamani maana hauna soko sana...ndio maana wao waliwekeza sana kwenye barabara pana madaraja makubwa na hadi kufikia kua na barabara za kulipia...
Kiukweli Mimi siwezi acha gari yangu nikapande mwendokasi!!gari yako inaraha yake...unatoka ofisini unaendaunakoenda anytime ,Haiepukiki watu kua na magari lakini kwa wale ambao hawana Huo uwezo basi ni vyema kuwaboreshea usafiri wao usiwe na kero nyingi...
Kikubwa kila mtu apambane na uwezo wake hatuwezi wote kupanda metro au BRT ilo haliwezekani...

Sent from my SM-J200H using JamiiForums mobile app

Sidhani kama unaelewa sababu halisi ya miji ya Marekani kutokuwa na usafiri mzuri wa umma. FYI, makampuni ya mafuta huwa yanahonga sana kwenye mabunge ya majimbo ili kuzuia miji isiwe na usafiri wa umma.

Na kama ungejua nguvu ya waliyokuwa nayo makampuni kama Standard oil (John D. Rockefeller ) na Ford Motors (Henry Ford) mwishoni mwa karne ya 18, ungeelewa ni kwa nini mpaka sasa hakuna usafiri mzuri wa umma. Japokuwa miji yote ilisanifiwa kuwezesha treni za umeme kupita kwa urahisi, reli nyingi za mijini zilikuja kung'olewa ili magari ya nunuliwe.

 

[Mkikuyu- Akili timamu]

First of all this is not a battle just an idea. Hopefully we call all contribute, share and learn from one another.

Okay, frankly I am not very fond of the toll roads being done in Kenya.

The idea of investors building the express roads is very good. Just not what they are building.

At minimum a person will need to pay Ksh 100 (more than TSh 2,000 like Kigamboni Bridge ) everytime they use the road. People will have to pay that to upto 30 years. That is a very very long time.

I think express roads does not help the majority of people like how BRT or cummuter train would.

Yes you gonna have awesome roads.

I think the government should have used the same idea to build commuter train rather than toll roads. You can even have BRT under it. Where BRT would stop every station but train not.

A city like Dar es Salaam and Dodoma for example, where the Government have planned to have commuter trains should consider this.

Kama barabara tu zina flood, tuna weka matuta for speed limit na kuzuia ajali, tutaweza on the ground and underground ltrains?

Nadhani nchi kama Tanzania ikichukua Kenya idea ya investor kujenga elevated express roads in return for toll fees, should build commuter train.

Yes, it's gonna cost more, but it will be worth it hata kama wata chukua fare for 30 years.

View attachment 1696148View attachment 1696149

What is your opinion on the matter?

You are right, This road does not decongest nairobi, the aim of serious city planners is to reduce the number of personal cars/low pax commuter vans on the road..To make matters worse its an expressway..you cannot alight at the common areas such as the highly populated Bellevue stage.. Absolutely no need for expressway when southern and eastern bypass do the job perfectly.. BRT should solve this

 

[MK254]

Huu mradi umewakata maini Watanzania. Poleni sana ndugu zetu.

Dah! Halafu kuna kifaa kingine kitakatiza kwa kupaa kutokea Upper Hill na kutua mjini ndani, hiki kitawacharanga matumbo....
Jana nimekua mjini baada ya muda mrefu (maana kazi zangu huwa ndani muda mwingi), yaani nilijikuta nashangaa shangaa kama mshamba, mji ambao nilikua nimezoea kupiga mishe za kuingia jengo moja baada ya jingine leo hii unasababisha nadata na kukenua meno.

Nilijikuta natamani kurudi nyumbani maana mji ulikua unanitia kisunzi, miundo mbinu ambayo sikuiacha ilikua...hadi raha bana....tutawapokeza watoto wetu nchi ikiwa tamu sana.

 

[NairobiWalker]

Nyangau be humble

Of late, Tanzanians are making too many videos on YouTube comparing Tanzania to Kenya. I like the way Kenyans respond though, without any bitterness or need to compare. 🤣 🤣

 

[Opportunity Cost]

Buiding a two-way rail instead of a road would have costed double or triple the price of this expressway. Constructing a rail is always more expensive than constructing a road. What will make it even more expensive is that 13 km of the rail will be elevated on pillars. The Viaduct for the rail needs to be stronger than the viaducts for a normal road because a single diesel or electric multiple unit, fully loaded with passengers will weigh more than 70 tonnes. So it would have been a very expensive affair to have 13 km of reinforced bridge. SGR being built in Dar has a short viaduct of maybe 1 or 2 km but you can see how strong that bridge is. That viaduct is strong but costly to build and requires more time to build. Now imagine the Dar viaduct being constructed for 13 kilometres and now you begin to understand how costly this project could be. The Lahore line was over-budget. The Lagos metro line is a disaster. It was launched, if I am not wrong, in 2007 and 13 years later even the first phase it is not yet finished. It is a complete disaster. Metro projects tend to go over-budget or over-deadline.

Kwa hapa nimeshawishika na point ya gharama but vipi Kuhusu kuacha space between the pillars kwa ajili ya matumiz mengineyo?

 

[Opportunity Cost]

See futuristic plan even before BRT phases IV, V and VI have started, Though the Morocco-Mwenge road expansion is not a BRT project, it has put under consideration BRT infrastructure in that 4.3 km section! Even Mwenge to Tegeta has left a wide median section for BRT lanes! From the design below hata authorities wakiamua kujenga another metroline on top wanaweza since median section ipo!

Mkiambiwa mna upoyoyo na utopolo kichwani mnabisha! U need to have economized that precious space for other future uses, hizo pillar aisee zingewezwa kuwa placed na kuacha enough space for another infrastructure be it a metro train or BRT lanes! Ila huwezi ona kwa vile na wewe ni Mumuu! That toll express viaduct alone won't sort out traffic! believe me, iyo corridor space hapo itakuja ku-grow a slum as haiko planned for better uses!

Ni kama Mchina anataka ku-collect his money by force na amekuja na design ya kuzuia any sort of competition on that corridor! Do u guys have land planners or architectures or everything is left for Chinese to decide!? halafu unakaa unachekelea huu upumbavu kama hujawahi kupata exposure ulipokuwa Czech Republic! Shame on u Tony254 !

Msumari huu ni wa moto,Majibu tafadhari why pillars ziwekwe kuzuia matumiz mengine?