Prof Haroub Othman na Shivji ni wachochezi?

Mchambuzi,

..siwezi kuwalaumu sana for what they did btn 1984 to 1990.

..lakini baada ya kuchomoka frm the "noose" ya kunyimwa misaada sijaridhishwa na jinsi walivyoendesha uchumi baada ya hapo.

..kwa mfano sioni sababu ya kusaini mikataba 6 mibaya ya uchimbaji dhahabu. mikataba 2 au 3 ya kwanza ilikuwa inatosha kutuonyesha wapi tumekosea na hivyo kuirekebisha inayofuatia.

..vilevile who is preventing us frm reviving our industrialization program iliyokwama kutokana na ukata wa miaka ya 80?
 
JokaKuu said:
Mchambuzi,

Who is preventing us from reviving our industrialization program iliyokwama kutokana na ukata wa miaka ya 80?
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That's a good question. There are two routes to industrialization katika nchi kama zetu ambazo zilishakosa mapinduzi ya viwanda late 19[SUP]th[/SUP] to 20[SUP]th[/SUP] centrury:

· IMPORT SUBSTITUTION STRATEGY (ISS)
· EXPORT PROMOTION STRATEGY (EPS).

Import Substitution Strategy (ISS) – Hapa, a country produces products to replace imports. This was very common during Ujamaa and also in many parts of South America and Some Asian countries (not Asian Tigers), during the post colonial period. In these countries, they had just won political independence na sasa kazi ilikuwa ni kujaribu ku undergo agricultural transformation that would led to the development of the modern sector – Viwanda. The idea was to get rid of the system left by wakoloni, of to: Produce What You Don't Consume and Consume What You Don't Produce. Mfumo huu ndio ule ambao Walter Rodney anaujadili in his ingenious work: How Europe Under Developed Africa. This man was shot dead later.

Tanzania hatukuwa na choice zaidi ya hiyo ya ISS (we will see punde why), na hatukwenda nayo mbali despite kuweza fikisha industrial contribution to GDP wakati wa Mwalimu to 12%, level ambayo haijawahi fikiwa tena Tanzania hadi leo. It is important kwa wanaomkebehi Mwalimu kujua kwamba ISS was the only industrial strategy option available for us, including all newly independent countries of that time, unless the WEST wanted otherwise (we will see what I mean by that, shortly). Na nchi nyingi sana Asia na South America, zilifeli kama Tanzania na ISS baadae, bila ya kujali kama walikuwa wajamaa au walikuwa wanafuata soko huria.

Export Promotion Strategy – This is the second route to industrialization, and the focus here is to produce for the purpose to export. This was pursued by South Korea, Malaysia and other so called Newly Industrialized Countries – the Asian Tigers. Watu, including wanasiasa wetu, huwa wanajichanganya sana wanapojenga hoja kwamba South Korea walikuwa kama Tanzania in terms of Per Capita Income in the 1960s, lakini wao sasa hivi wapo mbali, na kwamba if we had followed or now follow their strategy, tungekuwa/titaenda mbali; Hoja za namna hii zinashindwa kuelewa kwamba hili suala sio la black and white as they think, kwani Asian Tigers wameendelea kwa sababu ya Cold War, kule ilikuwa ni battle ground. Zilifanywa ziwe Satellite states za WEST wakati wa Cold War and US, Britain, Japan, West Germany, France, etc, did all they could to make sure kwamba the Soviet did not occupy these countries na ukomunist, hivyo kuwapa all the goodies waone Ubepari Unalipa;

In the process, the WEST gave these countries so much aid to finance capitalism kiserikali, whereby bureaucrats ndio walikwa entrepreneurs; The west pia wakawapa ahadi kwamba watawafungulia mipaka ili bidhaa zao zote za viwandani ziende Japan, and the West, hence Export Promotion Strategy; Akili moja waliyokuja nayo hawa tigers ikawa kuendeleza sekta ya elimu haraka na zile fedha, kwani in 1950s, South Korea kwa mfano, less than 20% of the population walikuwa wanajua kusoma na kuandika, na over 70% of the country was rural and agricultural based economy. Wakafanya yale yale ya Mwalimu Nyerere on elimu bure, waka invest in Science and Technology etc, hivyo kuweka misingi mizuri sana kwa fedha zile za bure.

Ni vizuri tukatambua kwamba mafanikio ya hawa wenzetu yalikuwa ni ya kupakatwa moja kwa moja, hayakuja by market forces, bali direct state intervention – state capitalism. Wakati wenzetu wakifaidi haya, sisi na the rest of the third world tukawa tunahenya na Kilimo chetu cha kikoloni, na kujitahidi na ISS strategy, kwani katika vita vya cold war, zaidi ya Zaire, hatukuwa na maana sana to the west. Mobutu angekuwa na kichwa cha Nyerere, ile nchi ingekuwa mbali sana. Otherwise the rest of the continent, kaburu aliachiwa jukumu la ku contain ukomunist, huku the west wakihakikisha we don't industrialize, kwani ukoloni mamboleo, just as ukoloni asili, nia yake ilikuwa kufanya Afrika iwe a permanent rural backyard for Europe and Amerika, by providing Cheap labour to kilimo, Raw Materials (mazao na madini) and Market for the west's industrial goods;

Swali la kujiuliza leo ni je:

Iwapo Tanzania tunataka viwanda, should we pursue again ISS? Au Tujaribu EPS? Au a combination of both?
As we already know, viwanda vya West baadae vilihamia nchi kama China, Vietnam, etc, kwani in the west, labour was costly na pia society ikaanza kuwa conscious na pollution etc; Since China, Vietman etc walikuwa wameshajipanga in S&T, Human Capital, institutions, infrastructure, etc, wakabahatika na mabadiliko ya WEST in terms of industrialization strategy zao; As of today, labour sio cheap tena in China, and increasingly nchi kama Vietnam etc, kutokana na improved quality of life of the population, uwepo wa the right institutions to protect workers' rights through legislations etc; So kwa sasa, the WEST is eyeing Africa and other countries in Asia and Latin America zilizokuwa nyuma kidogo kimaendelea lakini mbele zaidi ya wenzao kimaandalizi (human capital, S&T, miundombinu etc).

Challenge yetu Tanzania miundo mbinu kama reli, umeme wa uhakika, barabara za uhakika, educated labour force, national innovation systems zinazotokana na investments in Science and Technology etc; Na pia, kwa Mtazamo wangu unaoweza kuwa finyu, tukichagua ISS, we will only succeed if we operate in regional blocks e.g. SADC, EAC kwa ajili ya soko la pamoja na pia policy ya kuvilinda viwanda vyetu; Je, tuna jeusi/uwezo huo? On the other hand, if we go for EPS, we may face difficulties to set up export industries because of the competition from the more established and efficient industries Latin America, Asia as we have seen hapo juu; Muhimu zaidi ni kwamba, success under EPS, itahitaji tupate ile window kama waliyopata South Korea, Malaysia etc wakati wa Cold War; Otherwise tutakwama in no time, kwani bado kutakuwa na competition from maskini wenzetu wa Asia & South America ambao as we have seen wapo nyuma kidogo ya nchi kama Vietnam etc, lakini wapo mbele yetu sana in terms of strong institutional frameworks, miundo mbinu, innovation systems, educated labour force etc, hivyo kuwavutia WEST zaidi in terms of EPS.

Tuna safari ndefu sana, muhimu zaidi lakini ni kuwa na kiongozi/Rais Bora, ambae atakuwa sio George Washington wetu (BABA WA TAIFA), kwani tunae Mwalimu tayari kwenye hilo, bali yule ambae historia itamtunuku heshima kama ya Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, au Tony Blair wa Tanzania.
 
Kwa kweli mmenifanya nilie kwa kukumbuka hotuba za baba huyu. Inafika mahali naona alikuwa ni nabii wa siasaxxxxxxxxxx
Ila subirini wasema hovyo juu ya Nyerere humu ndani waje utasikia tetezi zao na utawashangaa kama ni watanzania kweli!
 
Kaa la Moto said:
Kwa kweli mmenifanya nilie kwa kukumbuka hotuba za baba huyu. Inafika mahali naona alikuwa ni nabii wa siasaxxxxxxxxxx
Ila subirini wasema hovyo juu ya Nyerere humu ndani waje utasikia tetezi zao na utawashangaa kama ni watanzania kweli!
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Watakuja tu, wanatafuta picha za mabarabara, magorofa marefu ya vioo, ma-pantoni, maduka ya Mlimani City na Quality Plaza, vyote ambavyo vilikuja after 1985, na kutubandikia picha hizo humu, kisha kuzitumia kujenga hoja zao za kumkejeli Mwalimu ambae yeye alilenga wanakijiji - wingi wao ukiwa zaidi ya milioni 30 kati ya watanzania takribani milioni 45 leo;
 
Nyerere has both the good side and the bad side as well, just like any other head of state under the sun
 
RAJ PATEL JR said:
Nyerere has both the good side and the bad side as well, just like any other head of state under the sun
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Yes he had the bad side and was bold enough to confess kwamba walifanya makosa but his good outweighs the bad.

Yule mzee alitwambia sisi wapumbavu maana tunaacha mazuri yao na kung'ang'ania mabaya. Ndio maana yule mtawala akahoji 'mbona Nyerere alibadili katiba ila yeye tunamkatalia'? Anataka alichokosea Nyerere tuendelee kukosea....tunakuwa wapumbavu
 

Kigarama,
Naomba ruhusa hii nukuu yako niiweke kwenye desktop yangu ili kila mara anapokosolewa Mwalimu nipate insipation ya kujibu pigo.
 
Mchambuzi;

Thanks Brother for another piece of information which worth reading; the speech itself tells you what type of person he was! R.I.P Mwalimu; thanks for all you done for this country. I don`t care one bombo clat what u tink, you pussy clat move u rass clat and shet u blood clat mouth; de rass clat man was good!

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM.
 

Nitaipataje hiyo mkuu.Hebu fanya mchakato basi
 
IPECACUANHA said:
Arusha Declaration was the compas towards a "promised" land. In it's absence there is no hope.
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I am among those who ridiculed the declaration, it is only after the old timer passed away that i came to realize that it meant much more than what it was being said. I remember he said something like "miiko ya uongozi" na "miiko ya utu". Look at we now, all fckedu up, the system is almost dead. Since we killed it in Zanzibar, and those who buried were not weeping, actually there were very happy and their celebrating now.
 
bakuza said:
Nitaipataje hiyo mkuu.Hebu fanya mchakato basi
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Hakuna shida; ngoja niifanyie mchakato in soft copy, kwani gazeti ni kuu kuu sana, la mwaka 1987; nipe muda kidogo;
 

Na wapo watu wanajenga hoja kwamba Mwalimu kaacha misingi ya uongozi iliyojaa rushwa etc, wakati ukweli ni kwamba hilo halikuwezekana mpaka pale walipoliua azimio la arusha mwaka 1992; nakumbuka mwalimu kwenye TV alisema "Nasikia wamelifuta azimio la Arusha huko Zanzibar" huku akiwa na uso kama wa tabasamu kidogo na kuendelea, "kwani lilikuwa na ubaya gani kiasi hicho?"

Ukweli ni kwamba, kilichowakera viongozi kwenye azimio lile ni suala la leadership code kwamba - kiongozi haruhusiwi kuwa na mshahara zaidi ya mmoja, nyumba ya kupanga, au kuwa na hisa katika kampuni ambayo ni publicly traded otherwise mengine kwenye azimio la arusha they cared less, kwani efforts za kumnanyua mkulima were long gone na mwalimu, anyways;

Suala la leadership code, hata nchi za wenzetu UK, USA, wana utaratibu unaofanania kidogo na huo, kwamba biashara na siasa zisichanganywe; azimio la znz lingerekebisha tu kidogo kipengele hicho, sio kutoa RUKSA bila kuchuja, kwani hiyo ilipelekea some sort of a 'gold rush' among viongozi; na ufisadi wa sasa ni mgumu kuushughulikia kwani azimio la znz linawakinga kihoja, in one way or another;
 
Bongolander said:
I am among those who ridiculed the declaration, it is only after the old timer passed away that i came to realize that it meant much more than what it was being said.
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Bongolander,
Hii ni hoja nzuri sana; wengi tulikuwa in the same boat na wewe, mimi before 2007, i must admit, nilikuwa na msimamo tofauti sana juu ya mwalimu na Azimio la Arusha kwani, ukikutana wenye kazi maalum (kutokana na juhudi zao binafsi au kimakundi) ya kumfuta mwalimu katika historia ya nchi hii abakie kama Kinjeketile, Kiongozi wa Vita Vya Majimaji, wamejiandaa sana; tatizo lililopo pi ani uhaba wa literature ya Mwalimu, especially ile iliyokuwa inaandikwa as things happened, by yeye na wengine wa ndani na nje; ukisoma hiyo, it gives you a clearer picture on huyu kiongozi;

Otherwise wengi wa watanzania wanasoma literature ya Mwalimu iliyoandikwa either na watu wa nje waliokuwa wanachukia ujamaa kwani ulikuwa unawazibia activities zao hapa; au wengi ya watanzania wanasoma yaliyoandikwa baadae sana kama a reflection ya ujamaa, and its failure; iwapo watanzania watafanikiwa kutofautisha kati ya END and MEANS in the context of Azimio La Arusha, na kwamba the END was justified, tatizo likawa on the MEANS, mara moja watagundua jinsi gani tunahitaji vision kama ile, kwa kuirekebisha hapa na pale, kama njia ya kulisogeza taifa hili mbele; haya mambo ya dira 2025, mkukuta, mkurabita, gurubiti, haina maana zaidi ya kuzidi kumkandamiza mkulima aendelee kuwa provider wa food for the urban elites, na government revenues kupitia forex from exportation of food crops, huku yeye akibakia kuwa cheap labour in the process, and potential army of labour iwapo wakoloni watapewa sekta ya kilimo waiendeshe commercially;

Sina uhakika kama maneno yangu ni uchochezi kwani in Tanzania there is a very thin line between uchochezi na ukweli;
 

so the question is, if the arusha declaration didn't promise to do away with our poverty why did we adopt it as our economic, social and political compass? from the early beginning.

Wasn't poverty one of our enemies?- so if we had exhausted all those decades to implement azimio la arusha only to be told by our "muasisi" that it didn't mean to do away with poverty then why did we waste our time with it in the first place?.

Hope, hope, hope,hope- people dont eat hope, dont wear hope, dont sleep in hope, hope will always be there even when you are rich, you will still hope for more!

People want tangible results.
Now i think, if azimio didn't mean to do away with poverty then it was wise to do away with it/modify it , and thus congratulations to president mwinyi.
 
Watanzania bwana, ujue Nyerere aliwanyima elimu watu kwa wingi, akawajengea mazingira ya kuwa na hali moja ya maisha(umaskini) ili iwe rahisi kwake kuwatawala kwa kuwa mtu akiwa maskini na hana elimu atahoji au kupinga kipi, hii ndo sababu yeye Nyerere anaonekana kama Nabii Fulani vile, yapo matatizo mengi ya kiuchumi na kisiasa tunayoyashuhudia leo chanzo chake ni Nyerere ila watanzania wengi hawalielewi hili, Mkarage baho!
 

With all respect to Alhaj Ally Hassan Mwinyi the architecture of Zanzibar declaration. What we see today is the result of that decleration; I don`t believe that Alhaj Mwinyi had time to read the contents neither he knew intention of peoples around him; but in comparison Arusha declaration was meant to secure and protect national wealth; of course it did not take poverty away neither did not create massive wealths through corruptions and misuse of public funds; more to that Arusha declaration was meant to us - peoples; what did we get out of Zanzibar declaration? Zanzibar declaration was meant for CCM top brands and their inner cronies; Alhaj Mwinyi can not stands in front of Tanzanians and defend Zanzibar declaration;it was a slap on his face!

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM
 
Hivi Nyerere ndiye aliyejenga shule za kata? Nyerere ndiye anayelipa waalimu mishahara ya minimum wage ili washindwe kufundisha? Nyerere ndiye aliyegawa migodi yetu kwa maswahiba wao wazungu wakila nao pamoja na familia zao huku Watanzania wakiendelea kuwa mafukara? Nyerere ndiye aliyegawa ardhi yetu kwa mashirika makubwa ya kilimo ya nchi za nje kwa sera za kilimo kwanza?
 

Weren't we told that Ujamaa refers to equality?- what equality were we talking about then?
 
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