Rashid Othman: Umeshindwa Jiuzulu!

[Xyln]

Bi. 50 Senti, you are reminded to observe forum rules, there is no need to incite.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Wakuu huu mjadala ni muhimu sana kwetu wengine wananchi, sasa ninawaomba tu mpunguze jazba, na Mods wafute yasiyotakiwa kuwemo kwa mujibu wa sheria za forum, ili wengine tuendelee na majadala huu muhimu kwa taifa,

the kitchen is hot, inaeleweka lakini isituharibie mjadala wetu, na ninaomba usifutwe!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Icadon, utaona kwenye Ibara ya pili kipengele cha kwanza inasema hivi:

"It shall not be the function of the Service: 1: To enforce measures for security".

Kwa maneno mengine wakimuona mtu anaiba hawatakiwi kumkamata bali kutoa taarifa kwa Waziri au chombo fulani ili waje kumkamata. Sidhani kama wana uwezo hata wa kumtia mtu kizuizini.

 

[Icadon]

Icadon, utaona kwenye Ibara ya pili kipengele cha kwanza inasema hivi:

"It shall not be the function of the Service: 1: To enforce measures for security".

Kwa maneno mengine wakimuona mtu anaiba hawatakiwi kumkamata bali kutoa taarifa kwa Waziri au chombo fulani ili waje kumkamata. Sidhani kama wana uwezo hata wa kumtia mtu kizuizini.

Wana power ya kuinterrogate?

 

[Rev. Kishoka]

Icadon, utaona kwenye Ibara ya pili kipengele cha kwanza inasema hivi:

"It shall not be the function of the Service: 1: To enforce measures for security".

Kwa maneno mengine wakimuona mtu anaiba hawatakiwi kumkamata bali kutoa taarifa kwa Waziri au chombo fulani ili waje kumkamata. Sidhani kama wana uwezo hata wa kumtia mtu kizuizini.

Not even containing while waiting for respective authority? Ina maana leo jamaa wakipita na silaha kwenda pindua au kuua kiongozi wao wataka Mguu pande na kuangalia kama washabiki wa Simba na Yanga?

 

[Kuhani]

Wakuu huu mjadala ni muhimu sana kwetu wengine wananchi, sasa ninawaomba tu mpunguze jazba, na Mods wafute yasiyotakiwa kuwemo kwa mujibu wa sheria za forum, ili wengine tuendelee na majadala huu muhimu kwa taifa,

the kitchen is hot, inaeleweka lakini isituharibie mjadala wetu, na ninaomba usifutwe!

Na Field Marshall keshafuta hoja za kidini alizo tundika katikati ya mijadala ya Usalama na Rushwa? Wabongo bwana kwa kujifunga huwawezi! Unasema kingine unatenda kingine.

Wengine wanakuonea noma, lakini nitasema: Field Marshall na wewe umevunja taratibu za JF.

 

[Rev. Kishoka]

-1997-2005 RO alikuwa Station Chief London....
-Radar imenunuliwa 2002
-Chenge ana Account(s) UK
Kama RO angefanya kazi yake ipasavyo basi sidhani Chenge angekuwa Waziri leo.

Alafu hii ya kusema kuwa anaweza akawa amemshauri Rais ana akapuuziwa, ni very weak sasa kama amepuuziwa kwa nini anaendelea kushikilia hicho cheo(another weakness), what makes him believe next time rais atamsikiliza?.

Hakuna aliyejibu swali langu, Wana njenje walivyotumbuiza kwenye harusi ya mwanae walilipiwa na nani kwenda UK?

Icadon,

Hivyo basi yeye kama field officer na station chief, alishindwa mengi basi! Je tukianza kujifunza historia yake na kukagua kila sehemu alikopita si tutakuta makosa mengi tuu? je Alipokuwa Zanzibar alifanya nini na kulitokea nini? Alipopelekwa London ilikuwa ni promotion au kitu gani?

What was so special akarudi Dar na kupewa ukubwa?

Ningependa tutumie fursa hii kujadili merits and failures kiutendaji na utawala na si personal issue ambazo zimefanyika masaa kadhaa yaliyopita ambayo yalisababisha mada kuingiwa na hoja chafu na za aibu.

NB. Mafundi mitambo, naomba mfute hayo mabandiko yote yaliyotangulia yenye matusi!

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mkuu Kuhani,

Najua kuwa nia yako ni kuvunja au kuharibu huu mjadala sio nia yangu hiyo, huwezi kunionea aibu kwa kusema wazi nia yako ambayo inafahamika, nayo ni udini na personal beef na rais wa jamhuri yetu,

Na kwamba mimi situmii majina mengi hapa kama wewe, mara ya kwanza ulimtukana rais wetu, nafikiri ulionywa au kufungiwa naona ulipotea kwa musa, lakini uakibuka na hili jina, mimi huwa sifanyi huo utoto hata siku moja jina langu ni moja tu! na sina aibu na mtu hapa na ninazijua sheria za hapa vizuri sana mkuu, maana nilishiriki kwenye kuzitengeneza wewe hukuwepo hapa then, kwa hiyo karibu ule matunda ya kazi nzito tuliyoifanya ili leo na wewe uweze kweka mawazo yako hapa yakasikikika na taifa!

Next time tafuta real ishu, badala ya kunipotezea muda, sasa turudi kwenye mada, ya kujiuzulu kwa mkurugenzi wa usalama wa taifa, maana ndiy the ishu hapa sio mimi mkuu acha obsession na jina langu, na mimi ni mtu tu tena mwananchi kama wewe, tena ninataka kuamini kuwa na wewe ni m-Tanzania mwenye passport ya kijani kama mimi, maana tusiwe tunakata ishu na wageni hapa bila kujua, maana maneno yako mengi kwenye topics hapa yanaonyesha kuwa na wasi wasi kama, au?

 

[Kuhani]

Icadon, ahsante kwa kutupa hizo sheria, Mutu ahsante kuniunga mkono kukataa mihadhara ambayo sio mahali pake. Lakini undugu wetu unaishia hapo hapo!

Kiini cha mjadala ni kwamba Rashid Othman ajiuzulu; kashindwa kulinda ‘Usalama,' kwa sababu kumetokea ‘economic sabotage' kwa maneno ya muanzilishi wa mjadala, hoja iliyo ungwa mkono na wana JF wengi kuliko walio muunga mkono JK 2005 . Wengine tukasema kufuatilia au kuzuia hujumu za uchumi labda sio kazi za RO.

Zikaanza hoja za kuotea otea kuhusu kazi za idara ya Usalama, na bahati mbaya michanganyiko ya ishu nyingine kuhusu biography ya RO mwenyewe. Lakini sheria inasema nini?

Ni kweli sheria ya Usalama ya 1996 inasema maana ya ‘Usalama' ni pamoja na hujuma, kipande ambacho hatujakijadili.

TISS Act 15/1996 Part I, section (3)
"Security'' means the protection of the United Republic from acts of espionage, sabotage and subversion, whether or not it is directed from or intended to be committed within the United Republic;

Lakini hapo hapo sheria inasema maana ya ‘hujuma' inayoongelewa hapa inatoka kwenye sheria ya Usalama ya 1970: "Sabotage'' means any such offence under the National Security Act, 1970 (section hiyo hiyo ya sheria ya 1996, kipande ambacho Icado hukukiweka.)

Sheria ya 1970 inasema nini kuhusu 'hujuma'?

THE NATIONAL SECURITY ACT, 1970 Sect (3)

(Hapa ndio mahala peke yake sheria inaongelea hujuma, na kipendele chenyewe kinaitwa hivyo.)

Sabotage and Espionage

Any person who, for any purpose prejudicial to the safety or interests of the United Republic-
(a) approaches, inspects, passes over, is in the vicinity of or enters any protected place;

(b) makes any sketch, plan, model or note or in any manner whatsoever makes a record of or relating to any thing which might be or is intended to be directly or indirectly useful to a foreign power or disaffected person;

(c)obtains, collects, records, publishes or communicates to any person any code, password, sketch, plan, model, note or other document, article or information which might be or is intended to be directly or indirectly useful to a foreign power or disaffected person;

(d) without lawful excuse damages, hinders or interferes with, or does any act which is likely to damage, hinder or interfere with, any necessary service or the carrying on thereof, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to imprisonment for life.

Hapa hakuna kuhujumu uchumi. Ukihujumu uchumi hufungwi maisha.

Na hata kama ingekuwa kuzuia kuhujumu uchumi ni kazi ya TISS, Rashid Othman hawezi kujua kama Chenge/Billal anaiba au anahujumu uchumi. Ni vitu viwili tofauti kisheria. Ataanzaje kumchunguza?

Ni Chenge, Kikwete, Jaji Ihema wa Tume ya Maadili, na yule mjomba anaeongoza TUKUKURU aliyesema dili la Richmond lilikuwa poa, ndio wazembe hapa. Rashid Othman hana hatia.

 

[Icadon]

Icadon, ahsante kwa kutupa hizo sheria, Mutu ahsante kuniunga mkono kukataa mihadhara ambayo sio mahali pake. Lakini undugu wetu unaishia hapo hapo!

Kiini cha mjadala ni kwamba Rashid Othman ajiuzulu; kashindwa kulinda ‘Usalama,’ kwa sababu kumetokea ‘economic sabotage’ kwa maneno ya muanzilishi wa mjadala, hoja iliyo ungwa mkono na wana JF wengi kuliko walio muunga mkono JK 2005 . Wengine tukasema kufuatilia au kuzuia hujumu za uchumi labda sio kazi za RO.

Zikaanza hoja za kuotea otea kuhusu kazi za idara ya Usalama, na bahati mbaya michanganyiko ya ishu nyingine kuhusu biography ya RO mwenyewe. Lakini sheria inasema nini?

Ni kweli sheria ya Usalama ya 1996 inasema maana ya ‘Usalama’ ni pamoja na hujuma, kipande ambacho hatujakijadili.

TISS Act 15/1996 Part I, section (3)
"Security'' means the protection of the United Republic from acts of espionage, sabotage and subversion, whether or not it is directed from or intended to be committed within the United Republic;

Lakini hapo hapo sheria inasema maana ya ‘hujuma’ inayoongelewa hapa inatoka kwenye sheria ya Usalama ya 1970: "Sabotage'' means any such offence under the National Security Act, 1970 (section hiyo hiyo ya sheria ya 1996, kipande ambacho Icado hukukiweka.)

Sheria ya 1970 inasema nini kuhusu 'hujuma'?

THE NATIONAL SECURITY ACT, 1970 Sect (3)

(Hapa ndio mahala peke yake sheria inaongelea hujuma, na kipendele chenyewe kinaitwa hivyo.)

Sabotage and Espionage

Any person who, for any purpose prejudicial to the safety or interests of the United Republic-
(a) approaches, inspects, passes over, is in the vicinity of or enters any protected place;

(b) makes any sketch, plan, model or note or in any manner whatsoever makes a record of or relating to any thing which might
be or is intended to be directly or indirectly useful to a foreign power or disaffected person;

(c)obtains, collects, records, publishes or communicates to any person any code, password, sketch, plan, model, note or other document, article or information which might be or is intended to be directly or indirectly useful to a foreign power or disaffected person;

(d) without lawful excuse damages, hinders or interferes with, or does any act which is likely to damage, hinder or interfere with, any necessary service or the carrying on thereof, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to imprisonment for life.

Hapa hakuna kuhujumu uchumi. Ukihujumu uchumi hufungwi maisha.

Na hata kama ingekuwa kuzuia kuhujumu uchumi ni kazi ya TISS, Rashid Othman hawezi kujua kama Chenge/Billal anaiba au anahujumu uchumi. Ni vitu viwili tofauti kisheria. Ataanzaje kumchunguza?

Ni Chenge, Kikwete, Jaji Ihema wa Tume ya Maadili, na yule mjomba anaeongoza TUKUKURU aliyesema dili la Richmond lilikuwa poa, ndio wazembe hapa. Rashid Othman hana hatia.

Ahasante kwa maelezo yako,
Naomba nikuulize nini hasa kazi ya wale agents wa TISS pale BOT na kwenye mabenki mengine na kwenye mashirika yote ya umma?

 

[Kuhani]

Ahasante kwa maelezo yako,
Naomba nikuulize nini hasa kazi ya wale agents wa TISS pale BOT na kwenye mabenki mengine na kwenye mashirika yote ya umma?

Kukuonyesha kwamba nia yangu ni majadiliano ya kujengana nitasema kitu ambacho ni wachache hapa JF, na labda hakuna, anaweza kukisema: Sina uhakika.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Naomba nikuulize nini hasa kazi ya wale agents wa TISS pale BOT na kwenye mabenki mengine na kwenye mashirika yote ya umma?

Mzee Icadon, heshima mbele na maneno mazito hayo na kwa kuongezea tu,

Na maofisa wa usalama toka ofisi ya rais walioko kwenye balozi zetu nje je? kazi yao ni nini?

 

[William J. Malecela]

Sina uhakika.

Duh! kumbe ndio maana tunakaa tunasumubuana weeee hapa, haya sasa tu-move kwenye kipengele kingine hiki naona hatuna uhakika! Naona mkuu Icadon, umeamua kumkoma nyani hasa mpaka giladi!

 

[Kubwajinga]

Kukuonyesha kwamba nia yangu ni majadiliano ya kujengana nitasema kitu ambacho ni wachache hapa JF, na labda hakuna, anaweza kukisema: Sina uhakika.

This is cute. Huu uwe mfano wa kuigwa. Kama mtu haujui au huna uhakika ni vema kusema. Bravo Kuhani.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Hapo tu ndipo ninapozimia na watu hapa, kutoa hoja na kujipa thanx mwenyewe, kweli viongozi wetu wasanii ni sisi wenyewe wananchi, yaani sisi wananchi ndio wasanii hasa wa kutupwa!

 

[Icadon]

Kukuonyesha kwamba nia yangu ni majadiliano ya kujengana nitasema kitu ambacho ni wachache hapa JF, na labda hakuna, anaweza kukisema: Sina uhakika.

Bravo mkuu kwa jibu hilo hapo.

FMES, huu mjadala utatufunua na kutusaidia kujua nini wajibu wa TISS kwenye mstakabali wa Taifa letu.

Tuna agents kwenye balozi,mashirka ya umma siajabu ata kwenye mashirika binafsi wapo lakini kazi zao hazijulikani ni zipi?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Sasa hebu tuangalie kama expectation yetu kuwa TISS inao uwezo wa kuzuia economic sabotage au vitendo vyovyote ambavyo vinaweza kudhuru usalama wa TAifa letu.

Kwanza sheria hiyo inasema hivi:

DUTIES, AND POWERS OF TISS
14.-(1) It shall be the duty of the Service to collect, by investigation
or otherwise, to the extent that it is strictly necessary, and analyse and
retain information and intelligence respecting activities that may on
reasonable grounds be suspected of constituting a threat to the security
of the United Republic or any part of it.


Sasa hii "threat to the security" ina maana gani?

Kwenye utangulizi wa sheria hiyo inafafanuliwa hivi:

''threats to the security of the United Republic'' means-
(a) espionage, sabotage or other activities which are against Tanzania
or are detrimental to the integrity, sovereignty or other interests
of Tanzania or activities directed toward or in support of such
espionage or sabotage.
(b) foreign influenced activities within or relating to Tanzania that
are detrimental to the interests of Tanzania, are clandestine or
deceptive or involve a threat to any person.
(c) activities within or relating to Tanzania directed toward or in
support of the threat or use of acts of serious violence- against
persons or property for the purpose of achieving a political objective
within Tanzania or a foreign state; and
(d) activities directed toward undermining by covert unlawful acts,
or directed toward or intended ultimately to lead to the destruction
or overthrow by violence of, the constitutionally established
system of government in Tanzania, but does not include lawful
advocacy, protest or dissent, unless caried on in conjunction with
any of the activities referred to in paragraphs (a) to (d).

Sasa sijui kama nitaombwa nieleze ni jinsi gani vitendo vilivyotokea BoT, Richmond, IPTL, Chenge n.k vinahusiakana na "threat to security" ya nchi yetu. Kama inashindikana mtu kuona itakuwa ni furaha yangu kuunganisha hivyo vidot.

 

[Kuntakinte]

Blah! blah! blah! Kilio cha Samaki..................

 

[William J. Malecela]

Sasa sijui kama nitaombwa nieleze ni jinsi gani vitendo vilivyotokea BoT, Richmond, IPTL, Chenge n.k vinahusiakana na "threat to security" ya nchi yetu. Kama inashindikana mtu kuona itakuwa ni furaha yangu kuunganisha hivyo vidot.

Strong na loud, and very clear!

 

[William J. Malecela]

Blah! blah! blah! Kilio cha Samaki..................

Mkuu heshima mbele, hii haijakaa sawa vipi ukiifafanua kidogo?