Restructuring of the Kenya Defence Forces

joto la jiwe said:
Wale ni askari walipelekwa mahakamani lakini walionekana hawana hatia, ilikua ni bahati mbaya, vipi kuhusu Chris Msando na Jacob JUMA, bado msako unaendelea?
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Hata wale walizikwa na maisha yanaendelea. Ilikuwa ni bahati mbaya.vipi kuhusu waliompiga tundu risasi na walioteka mo nyara did they face the law?
 
I don't know anything about Fighters or Technology because i refuse to accept your ignorance?? BONGO TYPE OF THINKING.
So you mean an old interceptor like J-7 used by countries that cannot afford to maintain modern interceptors is a better jet to have than a SU-30, a multi-role jet???? Even Russians were using some SU-30 as interceptors in Crimea, why didn't they use their old Mig21s?? Everyone loves his country but that does not mean you become ignorant

On matters Technology, China is still behind many European Nations..China is still in the advanced stages of copying and assembling.
Otherwise some of their Jets they are still buying engines from Russia. Germany is way ahead of China technology wise...only that china produces basic goods in very large quantities.

China has not yet reached the stage of Intellectual Property Ownership with the same level of western nations..otherwise their jets are way behind European jets like
Eurofighter Typhoon
Saab JAS 39 Gripen
Dassault Rafale.

China is not able to even make car engines comparable to the ones made in Germany by BMW and BENZ... or even meet the quality level of Rolls Royce jet engines..

They have more money and a bigger economy but they are not yet there. In fact in the case of their "new" jet the J-35 , many aspects have been copied from the American f35, the engine they are using is the Klimov RD-33 - russian made, which they are hoping to copy and make domestically in future.

So calm your ignorance and empty patriotism that i have noted with Bongo people in this forum. They will throw facts out of the window just to fit in their national Propaganda.

The TZ govt will buy machetes for their army and BONGO-LALAs in this forum will start saying how machetes are better than hand guns..

We in Kenya are very honest about our situations, strengths and weaknesses. Right now we know UG has better jets than our F5Es , and we know where our defenses lie in the same case.I can't start writing nonsense here trying to justify how an F5E is better than a Su-30 just because we have F5E.

GET THIS, CHINA MILITARY EQUIPMENT FOR NOW IS BELOW RUSSIAN AND US EQUIVALENTS IN QUALITY.. BUT IT'S VERY AFFORDABLE TO LDC NATIONS LIKE TANZANIA.
 
MwendaOmo said:
Yaani sitaki kusema wabongo ni wajinga. J-7 ni Mig-21 si Mig-29. Ati J-7 ipigane na Sukhoi? Ati Su30 ni ya Ground attack? Yaani wajing ani wengi. Wakenya mlio hapa hakuna haja ya kupingana wapumbavu kama hawa. Ni waste of time.
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The guy is just plain stupid, but don't worry ni ignorance, Tanzania's are fed propaganda by their leaders and they start believing.
 
I repeat you are more than stupid, in military technology China is just behind USA and Russia, by 2030 China is expected to top the world. You stupid, all those European fighter jets you have mentioned are made joint venture by more than two European countries, but you still support and call them advanced fighter jets, but when China uses some parts from Russia you oppose that idea.

Even USA uses some parts from other countries, there is no single country which can make whole jets without borrowing and uses some parts from other country.

China is on its way to lead this world in technology for one reason, technology means you produce at affordable price. Trump is afraid of China because no body is interested to buy made in USA or Europe because, the same item can be produced by China at cheaper price.

I repeat you know nothing about this world, 45% percent of high tech equipments in the world now are Chinese technology. Turkey, India and other allies of USA are turning their face towards Russia and China for more advances military arsenal, China is leading USA in Submarine technology, stupid nyang'au, you respect Wazungu more than Mungu.
 

ha ha ha, you sound not stupid but ignorant and you don't know it. I don't care who you think i respect..i am just stating facts here not wazungu or anything of that sort.
Please there is a difference between military strength and Technology strength. Get that difference.

Using some parts is very different from buying a full engine from Russia..
There is a big difference between made in china and Chinese technology.. most hi-tech in the world today is Western Tech, esp computers and software. China mostly copies or manufactures from designs they are given, They are very good in that..but they have invested immense amounts of resources on Research, we will see the results in the next several years if they start selling IP rights to US, Europe and the rest of the world.

Maybe in 2030 Sikatai they will be some-where at the top but not now.Most of intellectual property rights of Tech right now that people call Chinese is Western owned..

Instead of insulting each other here as niggers about who of the Masters - Chinese or Wazungu is better, lets share on how we black men can also join in the advancement and development of Tech in our Nations as E.Africans. To the rest of the world we are just niggers bro. Tuwache Chuki.
 
Hakuna chuki ila kuna kitu kimoja ambacho sisi waafrica tunashindwa kuelewa, miaka 50 iliyopita, China ilikua masikini sana, lakini wameweka bidii sana, sasa hivi Marekani pamoja na nguvu zake lakini anamuhofia sana China katika maeneo yote yaani uchumi na kijeshi, Marekani kwa sasa anakopeshwa pesa na China, Mimi nilitegemea sisi tungemuiga mchina na kuvutiwa na maendeleo aliyoyapata ndani ya muda mfupi, badala yake tunampinga na kusema ameiga technology.

Ngoja nikupe mfano, Dangote wakati anaanza biashara, alikopa $300 toka kwa baba yake mdogo baadae akarudisha na akafikia hapo alipo, je unahisi utajiri alionao sasa ni wake au wa baba yake mdogo?

Hizi J-7, soma vizuri historia yake, mwanzoni walikua wanatumia engines na radar za Russians, baadae waliweza kutengeneza engines na radar zao ambazo ni more advanced kuliko zile za Russia, ndio sababu hizi J-7 ni 3rd generation and very modern fighter jets kuliko Mig 21 ambazo ni 2rd generation sawa na F-5.

Katika uwanja wa vita, J-7 zinauwezo mkubwa sana katika kuintercept kuliko SU-30 multirole fighter kutokana na wepesi wake na kuwa na speed kubwa zaidi.

Sisi waafrika tunaweza kujifunza mengi kutoka China kwasababu historia zetu zinafanana Sana, hata standard ya maisha pia hazijapishana sana ukilinganisha na wazungu.
 
Oh how i wonder when the debates here will be about Kenyan/Tanzanian made military hardware. Not these foreign made rejects they sell to us.
 
joto la jiwe said:
Mbona hueleweki unachotaka kusema?, friendly fire is very common for any war in the world.
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The friendly fire you are talking about happens with troops on the ground..... but You do not accidentally fire a SAM against your own fighter jets, There is a very meticulous process that is involved that prevents an army from firing or bieng fired upon by mistake from its own air force during peace or war times
 

They fired a SAM and hit one of their own Planes?? maajabu haya
 
Its called category 3 training. Use of live missiles on own Jet fighters is compulsury and not optional. The J-7 was shot down by Tz missles.
The kind of baby walker training KDF does cannot matchup with JWTZ
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
Its called category 3 training. Use of live missiles on own Jet fighters is compulsury and not optional. The J-7 was shot down by Tz missles.
The kind of baby walker training KDF does cannot matchup with JWTZ
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Today youhave revealed just how far you would go to make up stories to defend anything Tanzania without considering facts or truths just as long as its a good story. The incident I was talking about happended during the kagera war when Tanzania air defence system were still relatively mordern,Tz soldiers mistakanely shot down their own fighter jet thinking it was Ugandan, and here you are making up stories about training excersize!!!!

Anyway, speaking of live fire training, KAF does that too regularly, And I have evidence for that, Do you have the same for Tz, or are you going to stick to your usual, "Insider govt information" about everything Tanzania explanation.


The truth of the matter is KAF is theonly airforce that has seen action in the past decade, The rest of the airforce around the region have been sleeping in barracks... including Uganda, their new Mi-24 gunships fell down around Mt.Kenya on there way to Somalia,




One of Uganda's six Su-30 crash landed and since then no news about its repair progress


they were supposed to be deployed for Somali airstrikes till to date they have never left Ugandan airspace Uganda receives final Su-30s from Russia | defenceWeb
 

What?? i have never seen that picture of a crashed Ug Jet. I keep telling these TZ fanatics that, our pilots are very well trained and see action in Somalia against a very difficult enemy. Alshabab is not an enemy comparable to m23 rebels.
 
vulcan said:
What?? i have never seen that picture of a crashed Ug Jet. I keep telling these TZ fanatics that, our pilots are very well trained and see action in Somalia against a very difficult enemy. Alshabab is not an enemy comparable to m23 rebels.
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in most of these debates i usually try very hard not to engage because most of the time, its people claiming to be 'experts' making all sorts of claims.....

Lets be honest, b4 going to somalia, What would you have said about fighting jihadist like alshabaab who in 2011 numbered about 12,000? I personally would have said we would crush them in one week, I would have even gone futher to claim we would do it better than the americans!!!. Remember that incident during Moi regime when Administration police engaged Ugandan forces in a firefight when they tried to enter Kenya?

Now that we have the experience, I always tell people from counties havent faced a 'holy' war,If you want to know if your country can fight terrorism, just take a look of how you fight other crimes in your country.... Like how often do murder crimes get solved and killers arrested, How often does you law enfornment track down fugitives???? What about narcotic drugs? Human trafficking? What about poachers of elephants,rare animals, is your country in control of all of that? If your answer is maybe or no, then you have no real capability to fight terrorism .......... You will notice that poaching in Kenya has dramatically gone down in Kenya, right at the same time we managed to curtail alshabaabs ability to carry out attacks deep inside Kenya..... This is because they used to use the same smugglign routes and tricks that poachers use to smuggle explosives, cash, weapons.etc
Terrosim on home soil is fought in peoples houses, neighbourhoods, they look like you, act like you but when it turns dark and you go out in the club, they are planning to come bomb that night club, If your police and intelligence services can't catch poarchers, human or drug traffickers or dismantle their money laundering networks, if you cant use evidence,witnesses, forensics to catch regular murderes or fugitives how do you expect to trail and catch trained assassins and gunmen who have all the knowlege on how to avoid bieng caught!!!!!!

So when I see some people bragging of how they can do a better job fighting an enemy that has declaired jihad on you whole country when they can't solve regular crime... I just try as much to avoid engaging with such people!!!!


Excuse the long comment
 

This makes sense, i have never looked at it this way. Initially the linda nchi operation seemed like a convectional war, then their equipment and bases were destroyed and they morphed into the population and become like common criminals, only the ideology was different.
 
Chooze a struggle, Sell charcoal in Somalia or Fight alshabaab.
I donno what UG airforce has to do with this thread, they can crash all their jets and copters as they wish.
KDF is poorly trained in all aspects, They have no training in dealing with insurgency, they dont have a simple duty roaster to keep watch at night in their camps, no equipment to detect and neutralize IDE's.

Physical fitness is a challege,Just look at the General Karangi and his Successor Mwathethe..that is the SI unit for fitness,lazy fat fellows.
 
KDF is very weak Force comprises of conmen and relathieves, nowhere KDF won a single war in the past, we all know what happened in South Suda where KDF failed terribly to protect civilians, report of UN indicated that KDF was very weak to be part of UN mission in South Sudan, Ban Ki Mon had no option except to fire Kenyan Commender, this was followed by Uhuru to call home his useless Solders.
 
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