'St. Nyerere’s' 18 political miracles

[Magobe T]

Church politics!!!!

Is true in RC you can do anything in this world and yet yu go to heaven by simply praying to God to move you from 'pagatory' to paradise!

I hope everyone would love that! so as wale watoto wa mama mdogo ukijilipua au vipi unakuta wanawali saba wanakusubiri peponi! LOL!

If you had said, "In my opinion, in RC you can do anything in this world and yet yu go to heaven by simply praying to God to move you from 'pagatory' to paradise! I hope everyone would love that! so as wale watoto wa mama mdogo ukijilipua au vipi unakuta wanawali saba wanakusubiri peponi! LOL!" I would have understood you.

After that, then you could have given reasons why you say so but the way you have put it looks like a falacy!

 

[Magobe T]

By J. M. Kavuma-Kaggwa - June 20, 2009

The greatest news of this century from East Africa is that the Catholic Church has started the canonisation process which will culminate in the Pope declaring Julius Kambarage Nyerere, a Catholic Saint.

Who was Julius Kambarage Nyerere? Nyerere was one of the greatest sons of Africa. He was one of Africa’s most remarkable statesmen and a great freedom fighter and liberator. That is why the Catholic Church in Tanzania and Uganda want to declare him a Saint of the Catholic Church I personally do not know of any saint who was originally a politician. The saints we know were priests, bishops, nuns, popes or people who were committed to religion throughout their lives and they lived in Catholic monasteries.

I believe, and I am sure many people would believe the same, that Nyerere will be the first politician of our time to become a saint in the Catholic Church.

HONOURED: Former Tanzania President Benjamin Mkapa, Kampala Archbishop Dr Kizito Lwanga, President Yoweri Museveni and Maria Nyerere at Namugongo Martyrs Shrine after prayers in honour of the late Nyerere. FILE PHOTO

It is also known that for one to become a saint, after devoting all his/her life to religion or the services of the church, he/she must perform miracles after death. If people pray to him/her in times of danger, or sickness and they get cured, then he/she is declared a saint by the Pope. The situation of Nyerere is different, as we shall see the miracles he performed when he was still alive.

I took interest in Julius Nyerere in 1956 when I joined the newspaper industry in Katwe, after my studies at Namilyango College.

That was the time when the Kabaka, the late Sir Edward Mutesa II had just returned from exile and both Uganda National Congress and the Democratic Party were busy spreading the gospel for the demand for “INDEPENDENCE NOW” !!. Nyerere also had abandoned teaching and founded Tanganyika African National Union (TANU) with Oscar Kambona, Paul Bomani, Rashid Kawawa, Bibi Tit Mohamed, Chief Fundikira and many others.

In Kenya, the Mau Mau war of independence had reached its peak and Jomo Kenyatta, Kungu Karumba, Paul Ngei, Bildadi Kagia, Fred Kubai and Achieng Oneko were in detention at Lodwar in Nothern Kenya.

To me, Julius Nyerere performed miracles (political miracles in actual fact) when he was still alive. The following are the political miracles which he performed when he was still alive in Tanganyika (now Tanzania) and Africa, which I remember.

1. Julius Nyerere struggled for independence and liberated Tanganyika (now Tanzania) on December 9, 1961.

2. He was the first Catholic President of Tanzania

3. He was President of Tanzania for 26 years.

4. He was the first graduate of Makerere University to become President of an African country.

5. He abolished all kingdoms in Tanzania.

6. He enforced the Swahili language suppressing all tribal languages.

7. From 1963 until the day he died, he refused to dress like an Englishman- a suit and a tie. He preferred the Mao Tse Tung and Chou en Lai suits – the Chinese suits. MaoTse Tung was the leader of the Peoples Republic of China and Chou en Lai was the Prime Minister when Tanganyika achieved independence in 1961.

8. In 1964, after the Zanzibar Revolution led by a Ugandan military man, John Okelo from Lango, Nyerere rushed to Zanzibar and met Sheikh Abed Karume, who was the President of Zanzibar, and they formed the United Republic of Tanzania.

9. He abolished the name of his party TANU and he named the party Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) which means the party of revolution although there was no revolution on the mainland. The national flag was also changed but the national anthem “MUNGU IBALIKI AFRICA” (God Bless Africa) was not changed.

10. He told the people of Tanzania never to address his wife – “FIRST LADY”, but to address her – “Mama Maria Nyerere”.

11. In 1967, he requested the American and Canadian Governments to lend Tanzania money to build the railway from Dar es Salaam to Lusaka in Zambia. America and Canada refused. Nyerere went straight to China and requested Chairman Moi Tse Tung to give Tanzania money to build the railway. The Chinese Government gave him 100 million Dollars “friendly grant” with Chinese Technicians who built what is now called Tanzam Railway.

12. Nyerere made Dares salaam the base for all liberation movements in Africa, to liberate Mozambique, South Africa, Angola, Zimbabwe and Namibia.

13. Again, in 1967, he went to Arusha, Northern Tanzania (an area of the capitalist and coffee growers (Bachaga people) and declared Tanzania a socialist country. He forced people to abandon capitalism and private ownership and he forced them into communal villages which he named “Vigigi”. He told the people to call him “Mwalimu” which means teacher and both himself and the people, were happy with that name.

Songs such as “Mwalimu has said it can be done – so play your part” were the order of the day on Radio Tanzania.

14. Socialism, or “Ujamaa”, brought terrible abject poverty in Tanzania because people were not producing. In the later years nearly to the end of his rule. Nyerere apologised to the people of Tanzania for introducing “that bad economic system of socialism”. It was poverty everywhere in Tanzania. What amused me during the years of socialism, it would be strange and surprising to some people to see a person banking Shs5,000. People would ask you in Kiswahili in the bank “wajua ndugu kuuliza sio vibaya, lakin hera nyingi kama hizo umezipata wapi?” what translates that my brother you know it is not bad to ask but how and where did you get too much money like that?”

Thank God in 1987 Julius Nyerere, who was a staunch Catholic, heeded the advice from the Catholic Church to “give up power and let another Tanzanian take over”. The Catholic Church, under the leadership of the late Cardinal Loriano Rugambwa, advised Nyerere with the following statement.

“You have made great achievement for Tanzania and Africa and you have stayed in power for a long time, it will be a tragedy for Tanzania and Africa if a mad man assassinated you because of refusing to leave power”.

The Church gave him a formular how to leaver power: “Allow a multiparty system to work in the country and leave the presidency to another person of your own choice but remain as Chairman of the ruling party for about four years”. Thank God Nyerere accepted the advice of the Church and the formular worked perfectly well.

A multiparty system is working very well in Tanzania and they hold general elections every after five years and they have not changed their constitution to allow one particular citizen to stay in power without any limit.

16. The last two and more recent miracles Julius Nyerere performed were the military assistance to Ugandan exiles to remove General Idi Amin from power and refusing the Democratic Party to take power after winning the 1980 general elections,

When Idi Amin took power through a military coup de tat in January 1971, Nyerere refused to recognise him and this sadly contributed to the collapse of the East African Community in 1977.

Later on, in 1978/79 Nyerere sent in troops which assisted Ugandans to topple Amin after he had attacked Tanzania by bombing the Kagera Salient in 1978.

Amin was toppled by a combined military force of Uganda exiles and Tanzanian troops on April 11, 1979. On December 10, 1980, Ugandans held a general election, the first one since Independence in 1962, and the Democratic Party won by a majority of 75 seats out of 108 seats. Paul Kawanga Semwogerere who was the leader of DP at that time, went to Paul Muwanga, accompanied by Mzee Evaristo Nyanzi, to make arrangements for Paul Semwogerere to be sworn in as the new President. Paul Muwanga who was the Chairman of the ruling military Commission at that time, told them he would check with President Nyerere in Dar es Salaam and advise them the following day.

Paul Muwanga telephoned Nyerere that very day and said: “Mr President, the Democratic Party has won the elections and Paul Semwogerere has just been here, he wants me to hand over to him. What should I do now?” Nyerere replied and said: “Paul Muwanga, you have got my army there – change all the results”. Muwanga changed all the results and gave victory to UPC/Obote. (The Commonwealth Observer Team declared the elections free and fair- Editor)

A big number of Ugandans launched a five year guerrilla war in Luweero which ended on January 26, 1986 and President Museveni and NRA took state political power until today.

That was Julius Kambarage Nyerere of the BAZANAKI tribe in Northern Tanzania, near Lake Victoria, a politician who led Tanganyika (and later named it Tanzania) from December 9, 1961 to December 1987.

Let us wait he will be declared a saint by the Pope at the Vatican and then we shall hold celebrations in Tanzania and at Rubaga and Namugongo in Uganda.

I am sure J. M. Kavuma-Kaggwa's understanding of what a miracle is, is not the same as the Catholic Church's understanding. Even his expectations of the outcome of canonisation are not the same. So, why not leave the Catholic Church alone rather than start confusing people? All other canonised saints were also politicians - some of them were just ordinary people and even slaves like Bakhita. Not knowing that there are politicians who are saints does not mean that they aren't or can't be! Anybody can be a saint even the most sinful person provided that he or she has converted and shown exemplary living to others

 

[Mazingira]

Utakatifu wa mwanadamu unapimwa na MUNGU sawa ila maisha ya hapa duniani (hasa matendo) huwa ni kipimo kizuri cha nini utapata mbinguni. ukiwa na matendo mazuri na mfuasi mzuri wa dini, ni hivyo pia utakavyopimwa Mbinguni. (lejea wimbo wa utamtambuaje mtu aliyeokoka nk) ni kwamba hapa hapa duniani unaweza kumtambua mfuasi wa dini.


hivyo ndugu yangu unaweza kupimwa hapahapa, na wanadamu wenzio after all tumeumbwa kwa mfano wake hivyo yale yote unayowafanyia wenzako ndiyo unamfanyia MUNGU.

Pole ndugu yangu maana hujui unachokiongea. MUNGU akufungue macho ya rohoni uweze kuona na kumjua MUNGU vizuri.
Kwa taarifa yako washika dini wazuri ndo waliomuua YESU maana aliharibu dini zao. Kuwa makini na ung'ang'anizi wa dini, ni hatari kama ukoma na mwisho wake ni kuishia jehanamu ya moto. Mjue sana huyu YESU nawe utaurithi uzima wa milele.

 

[Magobe T]

Mkuu hapa lipo tatizo.
Nafikiri hapa tatizo kubwa ni kwa kanisa katoliki kukosa ufahamu mzuri wa Ki-MUNGU. Utakatifu wa mwanadamu unapimwa na MUNGU tu na wala si mwanadamu. Yaani mwanasiasa anakuwa Saint? Tangu lini? Ooooh my goodness. Wamempima kwa kipimo gani? Haya ya kuangalia kwa nje na michango yake ya kisiasa? Si basi angalau wangempa Nobel prize ya kikanisa kwa michango yake mizuri kwa jamii na si katika mambo ya kiroho maana aujuaye moyo wa mwanadamu ni MUNGU tu. Hivi wanayajua maisha halisi ya mwalimu yalivyokuwa? Wanajua alitumia ulinzi gani dhidi ya maadui wa kimwili na katika ulimwengu wa roho? Je na kama wanajua yalikuwa sawasawa na mapenzi ya MUNGU? Nafikiri kanisa katoliki wasiingilie kazi ya MUNGU. Unless they have their own god and not the true GOD.

Do you really know the SUBJECT MATTER of canonisation or you are just speculating what you think it is? To declare someone a saint is to officially recognise that person's exemplary contribution to the life and growth of the Faithful of God (the Church).

If someone has dedicated his or her life to such an extent that he or she has excelled in living virtously then the Church recognises and honours such a person after the people show that it's worthwhile to do so. To do that, you don't need to know absolutely what that person's life is but it suffices to note what has been continously stricking to people and making them better persons.

So, canonisation is a human way of acknowleding and recognising in a special way God's work in a person's life. So, what's wrong or strange in that?

 

[Waberoya]

Quote:
Ndugu yangu ndo hapo jiulize upate jibu. Biblia si msingi wa mafundisho na uendeshaji wa kanisa katoliki. Kanisa katoliki limesheni maagizo ya wanadamu zaidi kuliko maagizo ya MUNGU na linaendesha mambo yake kisiasa zaidi kuliko ki-MUNGU.

You know my teacher told me, 40 people they can say 1+1=3, and only who says 1+1=2 s/he can loose. However how many people are to our knowledge and belief.Facts remains facts.

You have said facts; they too know that, wasiojua ukweli huwa sikuzote watabisha hata kutukana.Tunapoeleza ukweli hata ule wa ndani wengi hawataki kuusikiliza kwani bongo zao zimeshajaa yale wanayoyaamini!

Kanisa katoliki is against bible in many ways! we can discuss one by one still some people somewhere wont belive it.

The church that killed christian who were spreading the gospel is catholic, this history is undeniable! when are taliking about ant-christ they all goes to RC! idol worship etc!

Is good religion though, is good organisation, but bible is not their book! is not centre of their belief.

Haiingii akilini kung'ang'ania kusema tunaamini bible usiyoifuata, kila kitu kina maelezo yake!!!!

Deep down their is no difference between RC and Muslim, yo can see how they relate in many ways , simply their 'father' is the same.

I can testify in many ways that RC and Muslim are not God's. However I can testify in many churches they are not different from them as per God's standard

we need to deeply know the origin of this religions, utajikuta kila siku mtu wa kupanic na kukasirika watu wanapoanza kuanika ukweli!

ukiujua ukweli na ukaamua kuufuata is even better, lakini naona wengi hapa wameshiba na umbumbumbu wakuamini wasichokijua! kuna ukweli unaoweza kukufanya ukawachukia wazazi wako. Maana what is going on ni kuwa maadam nimezaliwa kwenye familia ya kikristo basi ni mkristo , ungezaliwa mwislam je?? kuna ujasiri gani wa kusemana pasi wote hamjui mnaabudu nini na kwa basis gani.Na hii imewafanya waafrka wengi kuwa wanafaiki wa kutofuata wanayoyaamini!

JK Nyerere, atakuwa tu mtakatifu kwa mujibu wa RC and this does not relate to God's ways of judgement.

His ways are not our ways Isaiah 55:6-11

 

[Abdulhalim]

You know my teacher told me, 40 people they can say 1+1=3, and only who says 1+1=2 s/he can loose. However how many people are to our knowledge and belief.Facts remains facts.

Huu mfano unaweza ukaugeuza pia kama ifuatavyo;

"Watu 40 wanasema 1+1=2, ila mmoja anatoka na kusema jibu ni 3, lakini anajidhania yupo sahihi na anang'ang'ana kwelikweli, akiambiwa athibitishe jibu lake anaanza kutoa visingizio lukuki na majibu ya jumla". Nasikitika kusema mtu huyo anaye-fit hiyo kadhia ni wewe.

You have said facts; they too know that, wasiojua ukweli huwa sikuzote watabisha hata kutukana.Tunapoeleza ukweli hata ule wa ndani wengi hawataki kuusikiliza kwani bongo zao zimeshajaa yale wanayoyaamini!

Shukran kwa hili. Hizi unazoziita facts, hujazithibitisha popote na mkiulizwa maswali mnabaki kutoa majibu ya jumla na ya kijinga. Facts are verifiable sasa kama unadhania unzao facts, ukumbi ni wako kuyathibitisha au ukae kimya na kudhibiti kinywa chako kilichojaa miale ya ulaghai na uwongo!

Kanisa katoliki is against bible in many ways! we can discuss one by one still some people somewhere wont belive it.

What u fail to understand ni kuwa hata baadhi ya vitabu hivyo unavyovitukuza sana kwenye Bible vikiwemo vya habari njema(injili), viliandikwa ndani ya kanisa. Ila kwa sababu wewe ni mjuaji mno, hatuwezi kwenda mbali na kuzunguka mwitu. Naomba twende step by step, tuzi-exhaust hizo 'ways' ambazo kanisa katoliki linapingana na Biblia, moja baada ya nyingine, ili tuweke kumbukumbu zetu vizuri. Majibu ya jumla yatachukuliwa kama kushindwa hoja au kushindwa kuthibitisha madai yako na baada ya hapo nitaomba officially tukupuuze. Asante sana kwa hili, nime-offer challenge kwako, mpira upo kwako.

The church that killed christian who were spreading the gospel is catholic, this history is undeniable! when are taliking about ant-christ they all goes to RC! idol worship etc!

Historia inasema hata manabii waliua. Sitasema mengi kuhusu hili maana ukipekua kwenye mafunzo ya Kanisa katoliki leo hii hakuna popote ambapo wanadocument uuaji. Kama unao uthibitisho wa kina ulete hapa jamvini tuweke kumbukumbu zetu in order. Pia unazungumzia kuhusu kuabudu sanamu, again ujuaji wako wa 1+1=3 ndio hasa unakupelekea kuamini vitu visivyokuwepo. Mimi ni muumini na hakuna hata siku moja ambapo nimeabudu sanamu, ila endelea kuamini hivyo maana inaonekana inakupendezesha rohoni na kukufanya utabasamu kutwa nzima, endelea.

Is good religion though, is good organisation, but bible is not their book! is not centre of their belief.

Kama nilivyosema hapo juu, kuna baadhi ya vitabu kwenye Bible viliandikwa ndani ya kanisa. Hayo unayoongea bila shaka unaongea out of ignorance na chuki.

Haiingii akilini kung'ang'ania kusema tunaamini bible usiyoifuata, kila kitu kina maelezo yake!!!!

Hongera kwa kuamua nani anaifuata Bible na nani haifuati, wakati hata hujui historia ya Bible na jinsi gani imepitia hatua ngapi mpaka kufikia mikononi mwako leo hii. Sijui niseme ni ignorance au chuki au vyote kwa pamoja, lakini tupo hapa hata kama mada kuu itavurugika kiasi gani kuhakikisha wazandiki kama wewe ham-prevail.

Deep down their is no difference between RC and Muslim, yo can see how they relate in many ways , simply their 'father' is the same.

Kama nilivyokupa challenge hapo juu, nakuongezea na challenge ya pili, lete ushahidi mujarabu unaoonesha hayo uyasemayo. Madai hayauzwi mazee, tabu ni kuyathibitisha!

I can testify in many ways that RC and Muslim are not God's. However I can testify in many churches they are not different from them as per God's standard

Your testification will be null and idiotic. Unawezaje kutestify wakati wewe ni mja tu? Usiende mbali na kujiaibisha zaidi. Sikiza Yesu anavyokwambia kwenye John 10:14, unless unambie wewe ndiye Yesu: Sasa usiendelee kukufuru na kuzidi kujitia hatiani kwa kutafuta umaarufu wa 'vijiweni'

John 10:14 Mimi ni mchungaji mwema. Nawajua walio wangu, nao walio wangu wananijua mimi,

we need to deeply know the origin of this religions, utajikuta kila siku mtu wa kupanic na kukasirika watu wanapoanza kuanika ukweli!

Nadhani wewe ndiye hasa unahitaji kuketi kitako na kujifunza, maana zaidi ya 90% ya unayoongea yanadhihirisha aidha hujui chochote au chuki imekujaa au vyote viwili.

ukiujua ukweli na ukaamua kuufuata is even better, lakini naona wengi hapa wameshiba na umbumbumbu wakuamini wasichokijua! kuna ukweli unaoweza kukufanya ukawachukia wazazi wako. Maana what is going on ni kuwa maadam nimezaliwa kwenye familia ya kikristo basi ni mkristo , ungezaliwa mwislam je?? kuna ujasiri gani wa kusemana pasi wote hamjui mnaabudu nini na kwa basis gani.Na hii imewafanya waafrka wengi kuwa wanafaiki wa kutofuata wanayoyaamini!

This is irrelevant general information based on hisia...Duniani kuna watu zaidi ya bilioni 6, hatuwezi kukaa chini kujadili hisia maana hatutamaliza, we sit down to discuss issues and facts. Learn from there dude.

JK Nyerere, atakuwa tu mtakatifu kwa mujibu wa RC and this does not relate to God's ways of judgement.

Inaonekana una ka-wivu na ka-chuki kakubwa mno. Mazee hii artictle ilioanzisha thread ilikuwa some sort of a prank. Mwandishi alikuwa analeta version ya 'utakatifu' wa Nyerere ktk medani za kisiasa. Ktk actual sense mambo ya siasa sio kigezo kwenye mchakato wa utakatifu. Ila watu kwa sababu ya kutiwa kiza na chuki, mmeshindwa kuliona hili na kama kawaida yako wewe na wenzako mmeona huu ni ukumbi mwingine wa kulichafua kanisa katoliki kwa kebehi na madharau, lakini hatutawaacha mpate satisfaction based on this cheap shots. Tutakula nanyi sahani moja hadi kieleweke.

His ways are not our ways Isaiah 55:6-11

Amen..umeweka vizuri hii nukuu. What you fail to note ni kuwa Njia za Mola wetu si zetu, ikiwa ni pamoja na wewe..sasa ukiizingatia hii verse,inaoverwrite upupu wote ulioandika na kuzidi kujitia matopeni. Lahaula lakwata. Pole ndugu ..ukitaka kufankamia kitu ni vyema ukatanguliza busara mbele ..Sasa nasubiria chellenges nilizokupa ..usikimbie, maana mwenyewe umejitia ualimu wa vipofu...

Karibu sana

 

[Mazingira]

You know my teacher told me, 40 people they can say 1+1=3, and only who says 1+1=2 s/he can loose. However how many people are to our knowledge and belief.Facts remains facts.

You have said facts; they too know that, wasiojua ukweli huwa sikuzote watabisha hata kutukana.Tunapoeleza ukweli hata ule wa ndani wengi hawataki kuusikiliza kwani bongo zao zimeshajaa yale wanayoyaamini!

Kanisa katoliki is against bible in many ways! we can discuss one by one still some people somewhere wont belive it.

The church that killed christian who were spreading the gospel is catholic, this history is undeniable! when are taliking about ant-christ they all goes to RC! idol worship etc!

Is good religion though, is good organisation, but bible is not their book! is not centre of their belief.

Haiingii akilini kung'ang'ania kusema tunaamini bible usiyoifuata, kila kitu kina maelezo yake!!!!

Deep down their is no difference between RC and Muslim, yo can see how they relate in many ways , simply their 'father' is the same.

I can testify in many ways that RC and Muslim are not God's. However I can testify in many churches they are not different from them as per God's standard

we need to deeply know the origin of this religions, utajikuta kila siku mtu wa kupanic na kukasirika watu wanapoanza kuanika ukweli!

ukiujua ukweli na ukaamua kuufuata is even better, lakini naona wengi hapa wameshiba na umbumbumbu wakuamini wasichokijua! kuna ukweli unaoweza kukufanya ukawachukia wazazi wako. Maana what is going on ni kuwa maadam nimezaliwa kwenye familia ya kikristo basi ni mkristo , ungezaliwa mwislam je?? kuna ujasiri gani wa kusemana pasi wote hamjui mnaabudu nini na kwa basis gani.Na hii imewafanya waafrka wengi kuwa wanafaiki wa kutofuata wanayoyaamini!

JK Nyerere, atakuwa tu mtakatifu kwa mujibu wa RC and this does not relate to God's ways of judgement.

His ways are not our ways Isaiah 55:6-11

It is tru Waberoya,

See the article below.

Does Jack Chick hate Catholics?
Quite the opposite. In the mid-1970's, when he first began to understand what Roman Catholicism really teaches, he knew it was unscriptural. He also knew that to speak out against it would be unpopular and hurt his publishing company.
After much prayer, he made the decision that, no matter what it cost him personally, he would publish the truth that Roman Catholicism is not Christian. He did it because he loves Catholics and wants them to be saved through faith in Jesus, not trusting in religious liturgy and sacraments. He paid a price for that decision in many ways, as priests and nuns entered Christian bookstores screaming and making a scene, demanding that the store owner not stock Chick tracts. Some "Christian" media have even refused to accept advertising from Chick Publications, fearing any "controversy" that might hurt their cash flow.

But God has been faithful (as He always is) and has protected Chick Publications over the years. Jack Chick has made it clear that if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't change a thing. The letters from so many Catholics who have read Chick's anti-Catholic material and have gotten saved carry one theme: "Thank you for loving us enough to tell us the truth!" Those precious people make it all worthwhile.

Aren't all churches coming together in unity?
The move toward the global church is called the "ecumenical movement." Spearheaded by the Roman Catholic Church, it is designed to bring all churches under the influence of the pope. Since the idea of love and unity is very appealing, many Christians have welcomed the idea, without thinking it through. How can an evangelical Christian, saved by faith alone, be in unity with a Roman Catholic who believes in salvation by good works? The result is always a watering down of the simple, pure gospel.

In his book, Smokescreens (you can read it online), Jack Chick explains why it is important for us to witness to Catholics, rather than accepting them as brothers and sisters in Christ. We must love them enough to tell them the truth! Some will become angry, others will respond in faith. But if we truly love them, we won't hold back the truth.

For more information in this subject, we make available a number of books (see Books: Catholicism). In addition, you can read online a comparison of the current catechism with the Bible, showing how it teaches a false gospel, written by Rick Jones (see Understanding Roman Catholicism).

Didn't Christianity consist of the Catholic Church for the first 1500 years?
No. While the Catholic Church was seeking to control the world through religion, true Christians were running for their lives from the Catholic holocaust that ran for centuries.

God has always had His people, faithful to Him and His Word. They had no part in the Roman Catholic Church. Through much of history, organized religion has hunted and slaughtered God's people. For an excellent overview of this, read the classic work, "The Trail of Blood."

Source:FAQ's Concerning Roman Catholicism

 

[Abdulhalim]

It is tru Waberoya,

See the article below.

Does Jack Chick hate Catholics?
Quite the opposite. In the mid-1970's, when he first began to understand what Roman Catholicism really teaches, he knew it was unscriptural. He also knew that to speak out against it would be unpopular and hurt his publishing company.
After much prayer, he made the decision that, no matter what it cost him personally, he would publish the truth that Roman Catholicism is not Christian. He did it because he loves Catholics and wants them to be saved through faith in Jesus, not trusting in religious liturgy and sacraments. He paid a price for that decision in many ways, as priests and nuns entered Christian bookstores screaming and making a scene, demanding that the store owner not stock Chick tracts. Some "Christian" media have even refused to accept advertising from Chick Publications, fearing any "controversy" that might hurt their cash flow.

But God has been faithful (as He always is) and has protected Chick Publications over the years. Jack Chick has made it clear that if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't change a thing. The letters from so many Catholics who have read Chick's anti-Catholic material and have gotten saved carry one theme: "Thank you for loving us enough to tell us the truth!" Those precious people make it all worthwhile.

Aren't all churches coming together in unity?
The move toward the global church is called the "ecumenical movement." Spearheaded by the Roman Catholic Church, it is designed to bring all churches under the influence of the pope. Since the idea of love and unity is very appealing, many Christians have welcomed the idea, without thinking it through. How can an evangelical Christian, saved by faith alone, be in unity with a Roman Catholic who believes in salvation by good works? The result is always a watering down of the simple, pure gospel.

In his book, Smokescreens (you can read it online), Jack Chick explains why it is important for us to witness to Catholics, rather than accepting them as brothers and sisters in Christ. We must love them enough to tell them the truth! Some will become angry, others will respond in faith. But if we truly love them, we won't hold back the truth.

For more information in this subject, we make available a number of books (see Books: Catholicism). In addition, you can read online a comparison of the current catechism with the Bible, showing how it teaches a false gospel, written by Rick Jones (see Understanding Roman Catholicism).

Didn't Christianity consist of the Catholic Church for the first 1500 years?
No. While the Catholic Church was seeking to control the world through religion, true Christians were running for their lives from the Catholic holocaust that ran for centuries.

God has always had His people, faithful to Him and His Word. They had no part in the Roman Catholic Church. Through much of history, organized religion has hunted and slaughtered God's people. For an excellent overview of this, read the classic work, "The Trail of Blood."

Source:FAQ's Concerning Roman Catholicism

Another baseless apologia. Bwa ha ha..naona mada imewawia uzito baadhi ya 'wateule wa bwana' na kuanza kurusha meza na viti. Huu sijui ndio ukristu wa wapi..Mada ilikuwa unamuhusu Nyerere (RIP) kuhusu 'miujzia yake' ya kisiasa, ila naona baadhi ya watu sijui uzito wa vichwa au ndio ile chuki iliyopitiliza wameamua kurusha viti na meza kwenye pahali ambapo wao wanajinadi ni wafuasi wa Kristu walio-pure. Nawapongeza kwa hili.

Kuwatuhumu wenzako kuwa si Wakristu inahitaji moyo..maana hili ni jambo la kushangaza sana tena mno, hivi nani amekupa hayo mamlaka ndugu?..Kwenye injili tunasoma kuwa yeyote anayempinga Roho Mtakatifu hatasamehewa..Kumpinga Roho wa Mungu ni dhambi isiyosameheka, sasa ingekuwa vyema wandugu mkajiepusha na madhambi yasiyosameheka. Ni vyema watu kabla ya kurusha viti na meza mkakaa kitako kutafakari maneno ya Mungu kwa kina na kuomba msaada wa kuyaelewa maandiko, kabla ya kujitia hatimiliki ya uelewa wa neno la Mungu amabo hatunao.

 

[Mombo Wetu]

Huu mfano unaweza ukaugeuza pia kama ifuatavyo;

"Watu 40 wanasema 1+1=2, ila mmoja anatoka na kusema jibu ni 3, lakini anajidhania yupo sahihi na anang'ang'ana kwelikweli, akiambiwa athibitishe jibu lake anaanza kutoa visingizio lukuki na majibu ya jumla". Nasikitika kusema mtu huyo anaye-fit hiyo kadhia ni wewe.



Shukran kwa hili. Hizi unazoziita facts, hujazithibitisha popote na mkiulizwa maswali mnabaki kutoa majibu ya jumla na ya kijinga. Facts are verifiable sasa kama unadhania unzao facts, ukumbi ni wako kuyathibitisha au ukae kimya na kudhibiti kinywa chako kilichojaa miale ya ulaghai na uwongo!



What u fail to understand ni kuwa hata baadhi ya vitabu hivyo unavyovitukuza sana kwenye Bible vikiwemo vya habari njema(injili), viliandikwa ndani ya kanisa. Ila kwa sababu wewe ni mjuaji mno, hatuwezi kwenda mbali na kuzunguka mwitu. Naomba twende step by step, tuzi-exhaust hizo 'ways' ambazo kanisa katoliki linapingana na Biblia, moja baada ya nyingine, ili tuweke kumbukumbu zetu vizuri. Majibu ya jumla yatachukuliwa kama kushindwa hoja au kushindwa kuthibitisha madai yako na baada ya hapo nitaomba officially tukupuuze. Asante sana kwa hili, nime-offer challenge kwako, mpira upo kwako.



Historia inasema hata manabii waliua. Sitasema mengi kuhusu hili maana ukipekua kwenye mafunzo ya Kanisa katoliki leo hii hakuna popote ambapo wanadocument uuaji. Kama unao uthibitisho wa kina ulete hapa jamvini tuweke kumbukumbu zetu in order. Pia unazungumzia kuhusu kuabudu sanamu, again ujuaji wako wa 1+1=3 ndio hasa unakupelekea kuamini vitu visivyokuwepo. Mimi ni muumini na hakuna hata siku moja ambapo nimeabudu sanamu, ila endelea kuamini hivyo maana inaonekana inakupendezesha rohoni na kukufanya utabasamu kutwa nzima, endelea.



Kama nilivyosema hapo juu, kuna baadhi ya vitabu kwenye Bible viliandikwa ndani ya kanisa. Hayo unayoongea bila shaka unaongea out of ignorance na chuki.



Hongera kwa kuamua nani anaifuata Bible na nani haifuati, wakati hata hujui historia ya Bible na jinsi gani imepitia hatua ngapi mpaka kufikia mikononi mwako leo hii. Sijui niseme ni ignorance au chuki au vyote kwa pamoja, lakini tupo hapa hata kama mada kuu itavurugika kiasi gani kuhakikisha wazandiki kama wewe ham-prevail.



Kama nilivyokupa challenge hapo juu, nakuongezea na challenge ya pili, lete ushahidi mujarabu unaoonesha hayo uyasemayo. Madai hayauzwi mazee, tabu ni kuyathibitisha!



Your testification will be null and idiotic. Unawezaje kutestify wakati wewe ni mja tu? Usiende mbali na kujiaibisha zaidi. Sikiza Yesu anavyokwambia kwenye John 10:14, unless unambie wewe ndiye Yesu: Sasa usiendelee kukufuru na kuzidi kujitia hatiani kwa kutafuta umaarufu wa 'vijiweni'

John 10:14 Mimi ni mchungaji mwema. Nawajua walio wangu, nao walio wangu wananijua mimi,



Nadhani wewe ndiye hasa unahitaji kuketi kitako na kujifunza, maana zaidi ya 90% ya unayoongea yanadhihirisha aidha hujui chochote au chuki imekujaa au vyote viwili.



This is irrelevant general information based on hisia...Duniani kuna watu zaidi ya bilioni 6, hatuwezi kukaa chini kujadili hisia maana hatutamaliza, we sit down to discuss issues and facts. Learn from there dude.



Inaonekana una ka-wivu na ka-chuki kakubwa mno. Mazee hii artictle ilioanzisha thread ilikuwa some sort of a prank. Mwandishi alikuwa analeta version ya 'utakatifu' wa Nyerere ktk medani za kisiasa. Ktk actual sense mambo ya siasa sio kigezo kwenye mchakato wa utakatifu. Ila watu kwa sababu ya kutiwa kiza na chuki, mmeshindwa kuliona hili na kama kawaida yako wewe na wenzako mmeona huu ni ukumbi mwingine wa kulichafua kanisa katoliki kwa kebehi na madharau, lakini hatutawaacha mpate satisfaction based on this cheap shots. Tutakula nanyi sahani moja hadi kieleweke.



Amen..umeweka vizuri hii nukuu. What you fail to note ni kuwa Njia za Mola wetu si zetu, ikiwa ni pamoja na wewe..sasa ukiizingatia hii verse,inaoverwrite upupu wote ulioandika na kuzidi kujitia matopeni. Lahaula lakwata. Pole ndugu ..ukitaka kufankamia kitu ni vyema ukatanguliza busara mbele ..Sasa nasubiria chellenges nilizokupa ..usikimbie, maana mwenyewe umejitia ualimu wa vipofu...

Karibu sana

Ebu tusaidie kwanini Pope John Paul II aliwaomba msamaha wayahudi na wale wote walioumizwa na Kanisa Katoliki? Au na yeye alikua mwongo? Alafu kwanini kwenye kitabu chetu hicho cha Biblia hakuna sehemu inayoeleza kua kulikua na kanisa moja takatifu bali kuna makanisa mbali mbali katika nyaraka za Paul na Reveletion ikamalizia kwakutoa onyo kwa makanisa? Na hivi kwanini alisambaratisha wazo la kujenga mnara wa babeli? Hivi huyu Mungu si yule yule Jana leo na hata milele? Kwanini hakutuambia kutakua na dini moja inaitwa RC kwenye biblia au yeye hakujua? Our God is not mysterious He is Emanuel He came in our form so that we might know Him better, better than it was before its only LUCIFER who is mysterious; a liar whose aim is to kill, to destroy and if he can not do the two he steals; ndo maana kaiba identity ya ukristo na kujivika baada ya kushindwa kuwaua wanawa Mungu, kuharibu mission ya Yesu ya kuokoa wanadamu wote ili wamrudie muumba wao naye awe baba na wao wawe waana waume kwa wake; watu wataifa la Mungu. LUCIFER is a liar and father of it; he can use bible to take people to hell; thanks to God for the gift of his son who has made it possible for those who are ready to be newly created and born of the spirit to them its easy to identify this enemy for whatever cover it will take to deceive the mainkind ataumbuliwa tu. Hatuuchukii Ukatoliki tunamchukia Lucifar anaetaka kuiba identity ya Kristo huyo hatuna msamaha nae maana tunauwezo wa kumharibu.

We shall overcome you LUCIFER by the blood of the Lamb and our word of testmonies here we are testifying against you while coverd by the blood of Jesus. Jehanam wataenda wabishi tu tena kwa hiari yao ila kila sikio lazima lisikie injili ya Yesu yenye uwezo wa kuleta wokovu si kwa maneno mazuri yenye mpangilio wa kibinadamu bali kwa nguvu ile ile iliyomfufua Yesu kaburini pamoja nakua kaburi lilindwa na kupigwa muhuri.

 

[Abdulhalim]

Ebu tusaidie kwanini Pope John Paul II aliwaomba msamaha wayahudi na wale wote walioumizwa na Kanisa Katoliki? Au na yeye alikua mwongo? Alafu kwanini kwenye kitabu chetu hicho cha Biblia hakuna sehemu inayoeleza kua kulikua na kanisa moja takatifu bali kuna makanisa mbali mbali katika nyaraka za Paul na Reveletion ikamalizia kwakutoa onyo kwa makanisa? Na hivi kwanini alisambaratisha wazo la kujenga mnara wa babeli? Hivi huyu Mungu si yule yule Jana leo na hata milele? Kwanini hakutuambia kutakua na dini moja inaitwa RC kwenye biblia au yeye hakujua? Our God is not mysterious He is Emanuel He came in our form so that we might know Him better, better than it was before its only LUCIFER who is mysterious; a liar whose aim is to kill, to destroy and if he can not do the two he steals; ndo maana kaiba identity ya ukristo na kujivika baada ya kushindwa kuwaua wanawa Mungu, kuharibu mission ya Yesu ya kuokoa wanadamu wote ili wamrudie muumba wao naye awe baba na wao wawe waana waume kwa wake; watu wataifa la Mungu. LUCIFER is a liar and father of it; he can use bible to take people to hell; thanks to God for the gift of his son who has made it possible for those who are ready to be newly created and born of the spirit to them its easy to identify this enemy for whatever cover it will take to deceive the mainkind ataumbuliwa tu. Hatuuchukii Ukatoliki tunamchukia Lucifar anaetaka kuiba identity ya Kristo huyo hatuna msamaha nae maana tunauwezo wa kumharibu.

We shall overcome you LUCIFER by the blood of the Lamb and our word of testmonies here we are testifying against you while coverd by the blood of Jesus. Jehanam wataenda wabishi tu tena kwa hiari yao ila kila sikio lazima lisikie injili ya Yesu yenye uwezo wa kuleta wokovu si kwa maneno mazuri yenye mpangilio wa kibinadamu bali kwa nguvu ile ile iliyomfufua Yesu kaburini pamoja nakua kaburi lilindwa na kupigwa muhuri.

Mh..sasa naona thread imeamuliwa kuvurugwa rasmi kabisa..ila mimi nafurahia and i can only put gasoline on this fire.. Haya mambo ya kuanza kuitana LUCIFER sijui ni Yesu yupi aliyofundisha haya..toba Yarabi..binadamu kweli ni kiumbe asiyewezekana..Hapa kuna kila dalili kuwa tunaojinadi ufuasi ni wengi ila wafuasi halisi anawajua Yesu pekee..


Ok to cut the story short..Ungeweka subject moja baada ya nyingine..tujadili hoja kwa hoja..mstari kwa mstari..neno kwa neno..sarufi kwa sarufi..bila kusaza ...mambo ya maelezo ya jumla tuweke pembeni... hayo uliyoandika hapo juu ni jumble of words ambayo ukiyaweka pamoja unaweza kutengeza bomu la nyuklia..hakuna substance, ni vihisishi na hisia nyiiingi bila hoja.

Weka hoja zako vyema tuanze kazi tafadhali. Niko hapa leo hii kutoa uelewa kwa kila mwenye kuhitaji.

 

[Kalunguyeye]

Wewe hicho unaoona kuwa politics sisi wengine ndiyo imani aliyotuachia Bwana Yesu labda utuambie na wewe ni nabii umekuja wahyi mpya kutoka Mungu. ..zaidi ya hapo wewe tulia keti kitako wakati wengine wakiamini wanachoona kina misingi yake ktk mafundisho ya Yesu Kristu.

BTW, hakuna sehemu inayoitwa pagatory, hiyo labda utakuwa umeiunda wewe kutokana na chuki yako kwa Kanisa Katolik, na nachelea unawezaje ukawa na chuki ya namna hiyo na bado unapata guts za kujitilia ndimu kuwa una uelewa wa elimu za rohoni. Shukran sana kwa hili.

AND FINALLY, sisi tulioamini ktk Ukatoliki tunaamini purgatory (check the spelling correctly) ni sehemu ambapo merehemu walio ktk neema ya kimungu lakini not pure enough kuifikia mbingu hadi kifuani kwa Ibrahimu, hupitia kutakaswa kabla kuingia mbinguni. Kama vile tunavyoamini ktk nguvu za maombi za kanisa la mbinguni kwa kanisa la duniani na kanisa la toharani, pia kwa msingi uleule tunaamini nguvu za maombi za kanisa la duniani kwa kanisa la toharani.

Kama unalo la ziada lilete jamvini, hata kama umedhamiria kulitusi kanisa Katoliki na kulitweza kila nafasi inapopatikana tutakupatia majibu mujarabu. Karibu sana.

Ndugu Abdulhalim unanifurahisha na majibu mazuri unayompa huyo ndugu

 

[Abdulhalim]

Ndugu Abdulhalim unanifurahisha na majibu mazuri unayompa huyo ndugu

Mheshimiwa,

Tunajaribu kueleweshana hapa na hawa ndugu zetu wanaodhani wanachoamini wao ndio imani standard na kujiona wanahodhi wokovu wao peke yao. Tutaelekezana nao hadi kitakapoeleweka bila kuchoka.

 

[Mazingira]

Mh..sasa naona thread imeamuliwa kuvurugwa rasmi kabisa..ila mimi nafurahia and i can only put gasoline on this fire.. Haya mambo ya kuanza kuitana LUCIFER sijui ni Yesu yupi aliyofundisha haya..toba Yarabi..binadamu kweli ni kiumbe asiyewezekana..Hapa kuna kila dalili kuwa tunaojinadi ufuasi ni wengi ila wafuasi halisi anawajua Yesu pekee..


Ok to cut the story short..Ungeweka subject moja baada ya nyingine..tujadili hoja kwa hoja..mstari kwa mstari..neno kwa neno..sarufi kwa sarufi..bila kusaza ...mambo ya maelezo ya jumla tuweke pembeni... hayo uliyoandika hapo juu ni jumble of words ambayo ukiyaweka pamoja unaweza kutengeza bomu la nyuklia..hakuna substance, ni vihisishi na hisia nyiiingi bila hoja.

Weka hoja zako vyema tuanze kazi tafadhali. Niko hapa leo hii kutoa uelewa kwa kila mwenye kuhitaji.

Abdulhalim,

Naomba ujibu hoja zifuatazo kimaandiko;

1. Imani ya kusali kwa kutumia rosali imeanzia wapi?

2. Imani ya kuomba kupitia watakatifu imeanzia wapi?

3. Kuchonga na kubusu sanamu imeanzia wapi?

4. Imani ya kutubu kupitia kwa padri imeanzia wapi?

5. Imani ya kutokuamini miujiza kiasi cha wale wanaoamini miujiza kufukuzwa na kanisani (e.g Father Nkwera) maana yake nini?

6. Imani ya kusema hakuna kuokoka duniani na kuiita pombe ni sakarament takatifu (I quote Pengo's Statement made several years ago) imeatokea wapi?

7. Hebu tueleze kazi halisi ya Kikundi cha Jesuit ni nini?

8. Imani ya kuombea wafu imetokea wapi?

9. Kwanini mapadri wanaokamatwa kwa kufanya uchafu tena zaidi ya mara moja (e.g uzinzi, sodomy etc) hawafukuzwi utumishi bali huhamishwa kutoka sehemu moja kwenda nyingine?

Tuanze na haya mengine yatafuatia.

 

[Zakumi]

Kwa kusoma posti hapa inaonyesha watu wakati mwingine tunakurupuka kujadili masuala bila ya kusoma posti ya kwanza ambayo ni utangulizi wa thread nzima.

Ukisoma hiyo mihujiza 18 ya kisiasa iliyopo kwenye utangulizi, utangundua kuwa mingine mwandishi amemkejeli Mwalimu.

 

[Abdulhalim]

Abdulhalim,

Naomba ujibu hoja zifuatazo kimaandiko;

1. Imani ya kusali kwa kutumia rosali imeanzia wapi?

2. Imani ya kuomba kupitia watakatifu imeanzia wapi?

3. Kuchonga na kubusu sanamu imeanzia wapi?

4. Imani ya kutubu kupitia kwa padri imeanzia wapi?

5. Imani ya kutokuamini miujiza kiasi cha wale wanaoamini miujiza kufukuzwa na kanisani (e.g Father Nkwera) maana yake nini?

6. Imani ya kusema hakuna kuokoka duniani na kuiita pombe ni sakarament takatifu (I quote Pengo's Statement made several years ago) imeatokea wapi?

7. Hebu tueleze kazi halisi ya Kikundi cha Jesuit ni nini?

8. Imani ya kuombea wafu imetokea wapi?

9. Kwanini mapadri wanaokamatwa kwa kufanya uchafu tena zaidi ya mara moja (e.g uzinzi, sodomy etc) hawafukuzwi utumishi bali huhamishwa kutoka sehemu moja kwenda nyingine?

Tuanze na haya mengine yatafuatia.

Maswali mazuri haya..

Kama nilivyokwisha kukujibu ktk siku zilizopita, sio kila kitu kinachoaminiwa katika kanisa katoliki kina misingi yake kwenye Bible.

Pia wakati ukisubiria isingekuwa vibaya nikajua wewe unasali wapi ili tushirikishane bana..si unajua utamu wa furaha ni kushirikishana..?

 

[Abdulhalim]

Kwa kusoma posti hapa inaonyesha watu wakati mwingine tunakurupuka kujadili masuala bila ya kusoma posti ya kwanza ambayo ni utangulizi wa thread nzima.

Ukisoma hiyo mihujiza 18 ya kisiasa iliyopo kwenye utangulizi, utangundua kuwa mingine mwandishi amemkejeli Mwalimu.

Ni vyema umeliona hili..Wengine hapa inakuwa taabu sana kusoma kitu kwa objectivity, wanatawaliwa na wahqa na chuki dhidi ya imani za wengine.

 

[Nasolwa]

Nyerere alikuwa mwanasiasa mwaminifu na shupavu na alitumia njia zote za dola kulinda nchi na mamlaka yake. Yeye hakuwa kiongozi wa kidini anayeweza kustahili kufikiriwa kupewa utakatifu. NAAMINI WANGEMDOKEZEA WAKATI YUPO HAI KWAMBA WATAFIKIRIA KUMPA UTAKATIFI AKIFA ANGEWAPIGA MARUFUKU KWA SABABU NYERERE HAKUWA MTU WA KUTAKA KUTUKUZWA TUKUZWA.

 

[Bunduki]

Hello, mambo?

Nafurahi kuwa mwanachama wa forum hii na hii ni mara yangu ya kwanza kutoa maoni katika jamvi.

Ukisoma kwa makini mwandishi wa kwanza aliyemuelezea Mwalimu, utagundua kuwa hakubaliani na wazo la kumfanya mwalimu kuwa saint. Lkn amenishangaza kwa kuwa ametoa maelezo mengi yasiyo na ushahidi wowote na wengi wetu tumeingia kichwakichwa bila kutaka uthibitisho wowote. Madai kama mwalimu aliambiwa hivi au vile na kanisa katoliki, mara alimwambia hivi Muwanga, ni madai yasiyopaswa kukodolewa macho maana hayana kile tunachokiita "authenticity".

Kingine nachotaka kusema ni kuwa mara nyingi nabii hakubaliki kwao, kwa hiyo haishangazi mwalimu kupingwa na hii ndiyo ubinadamu- kuwa na utashi wa kukubali au kukataa

 

[Mazingira]

Maswali mazuri haya..

Kama nilivyokwisha kukujibu ktk siku zilizopita, sio kila kitu kinachoaminiwa katika kanisa katoliki kina misingi yake kwenye Bible.

Pia wakati ukisubiria isingekuwa vibaya nikajua wewe unasali wapi ili tushirikishane bana..si unajua utamu wa furaha ni kushirikishana..?

Abdulhalim,
Mimi ni mpentekoste,

Ndugu yangu Abdulhalim, haikusaidii kuendelea kutetea dini ambayo msingi wake si katika Neno la MUNGU. Fungua moyo wako kwa utayari wa kutaka kuujua ukweli ili Roho wa MUNGU aweze kukusaidia kuujua huo ukweli ili uweze kuufuata. I used to be a faithful RC member lakini nilijiachia kwa MUNGU anifundishe zaidi na sikuwa tayari kung'ang'ania dini. Na kweli neema ya wokovu ilifunuliwa kwangu nikaokoka na sasa nafurahi ndani ya YESU.

Sikiliza maneno haya ya YESU yanaweza kukufungua macho.

Matthew 15 (Amplified Bible)
6So for the sake of your tradition (the rules handed down by your forefathers), you have set aside the Word of God [depriving it of force and authority and making it of no effect].


7You pretenders (hypocrites)! Admirably and truly did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said:

8These people draw near Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts hold off and are far away from Me.
9Uselessly do they worship Me, for they teach as doctrines the commands of men.

Karibu ndugu yangu katika wokovu tujiunge pamoja katika safari ya kwenda mbinguni.

 

[Mombo Wetu]

Kwa kusoma posti hapa inaonyesha watu wakati mwingine tunakurupuka kujadili masuala bila ya kusoma posti ya kwanza ambayo ni utangulizi wa thread nzima.

Ukisoma hiyo miujiza 18 ya kisiasa iliyopo kwenye utangulizi, utangundua kuwa mingine mwandishi amemkejeli Mwalimu.

Afadhali ndugu yangu nawewe umeona ila kwasababu nilidhani ndo criteria ya utakatifu wa hilo kanisa niliogopa kusema maana wao vitu vyao vinaenda opposite na wakristo wengine na utii ndo kitu cha kwanza basi nikadhani ndo wako katika kutii. Maana inachekesha mtu alevuruga uchaguzi na kumweka mtu wake iwe criteria ya kumtambua kuwa ndo anafaa any way huko siko ila wakiingilia ukristo na democracy ta Tz hapo mimi sahani moja na wao mpaka kinaeleweka.