Tanzania Mining Act of 2010 (Vain Politics)

Lakini basi mbona sheria iko wazi kuhusu interest za serikakali katika madini hayo? Kifungu hicho unachojaribu kutafsri kwa lugha yako ya economotional law pia hakisemi kuwa serikali ipewe 50%. Tatizo la Tanzaniteone labda wanashauriwa na mtu kama wewe anayetumia emotions zaidi ya kutafsiri sheria kikamilifu. Iwapo kuna Waziri analazimisha Tanzaniteone watoe shea za bure, basi waziri huyo anavunja sheria hiyo; ashtakiwe mahakamani siyo kulaumu sheria!
 
Ndg Zitto

please allow me to ask you two straightforward questions and give me a strasightforward answer.

1)hii sheria inamzuia mgeni mwenye $5m kuwekeza in gemstone mining bila ya 50 percent ownership ya Mtanzania?

2) mgeni akiwekeza in 'debt financing' at 80 percent of the investment cost badala ya 'equity' atakuwa kavunja sheria?

I would say no to both questions which implies the law is not truly designed to change anything of economic merit but pure politics.

What would you honestly say?
 
 
 
Ndugu,

Sheria ni sheria na wala aimjali mwekezaji depending on other economic outputs. Watunga sheria wao wanachoangalia what serves best many katika jamii yao.

Mwekezaji yoyote ambae anaingia katika territories outside her boarders lazima aelewe how the policies work and what are the the political influences. Na serikali yeyote inaweza badilisha mawazo ya sera kutokana na uhalisia wa mambo au jinsi inaona watu wao wengi watakavyako katika sectors ambazo wao wanaona azina manufaa kwao that is politics (every party has a different political view and economical view, to serve best those who care).

Sasa basi kama serikali imeaamua kutoa percantage ya shares kumilikiwa na wenyeji ni hao wawekezaji kupanga jinsi ya kutimiza policies advocated by the government hawataki waondoke, maana so far aijaona athari ya sera zao na ndio maana hawataki kubadilisha. Hayo malalamiko yao ni kutaka vitu vifanywe kwa faida zao wao tu and so far the government has made its decisions on its mining policies clear.

Therefore either they comply or they go, and if the government felt they needed them desperately they would have changes their stance.

The policy had good intentions, but what it dint consider is the number of people that understood how these things work. Hence the government took the right measures ensuring if local people did not benefit they might as well hold on to that fifty percent and spend the profits on their polices aimed at improving people life chances.

Swala hapa ni serikali kulipa au uchangiaji wao hili kupata fifity percent based on fairness, kama walivyotaka watanzania kupata hisa na namna za kuingia ubia katika makampuni hayo. Hapo ndipo utata ulipo kwa mujibu wenu vinginevyo ni sera ambayo hipo kitaifa na ya kumjali mtazania na mlinzi akiwa serkali.

Na hapo waamuzi bado wana haki ya kuamua mambo ya ushuru kwa matakwa yao, that is just politics and what they see would serve the interest of many na jinsi ya kuongeza mapato yao. There is nothing wrong with that na kama hawataki waondoke and so far the government has not yet yielded to their demands meaning they got other economical growth programmes (if only they could describe them).
 

kwa kuwa sheria iko wazi kwako nisaidie majibu ya maswali yafuatayo:

Sheria hiyo iliyo wazi inasema serikali ipate asilimia ngapi? Ipate wakati gani before IPO, during IPO of after IPO?

Inasema ipate hisa kwa kulipia ama bure? Kama kulipia how are the shares valued?

Nini maana ya 'free loader interest'?

Serikali iliyosema waziwazi lazima wapate hisa za bure nayo ina economotion?
 
Eric Cartman said:
Hence the government took the right measures ensuring if local people did not benefit they might as well hold on to that fifty percent and spend the profits on their polices aimed at improving people life chances.
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Muwekezaji akisema yeye ana $50m na wewe ulete $50m muwekeze at 50/50 utaweza kuja na hivyo vijisenti?

Kama ungejibu maswali niliyouliza usingesema kwamba hii sheria ita improve life.

It is now over 3 years since the law was enacted, did this law improve your life? Do you know any one Tanzanian out of all 45m whose life is uplifted because of this law?
 
Eric Cartman said:
There is nothing wrong with that na kama hawataki waondoke and so far the government has not yet yielded to their demands meaning they got other economical growth programmes (if only they could describe them).
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Kama hawataki sheria hii na wanataka kuwekeza watakuja bila ya wewe kuwaona pale DSE. All they need to do ni kuingia ubia binafsi na Mawaziri na familia zao, wao watatengeneza hela wewe utadanganyika kwamba wameshaondoka kwa huwa huoni jina la John Smith kwenye shareholder register.

Kwa nini munadanganyika kirahisi kiasi hichi?
 

Mbona unaongea kama amateur vile, when the rules are clear. Madini ni ya watanzania na serikali imesema kipaumbele ni wawekazaji wadogo. Knowing the facts kuhusu wawekezaji wadogo na uwezo wao there could be vast interpretations on the law (though the intention is to create local competition first or participation second).

Sasa basi if rules were followed those who invested before the new laws have to find ways of incorporating local people or they leave ndio maana serikali inataka ubia (we dont know the exact legal terms on those who did business before the new laws na kama kweli serikali inataka ubia wa bure).

And for those who want to come in, it's simple they cant participate without the fifty percent of the external shareholders or else the government comes in (Its just local politics na sera za chama na kila nchi inazake).

Lakini sheria aimtaki mtanzania kuwa na matakwa hayo, Meaning the government wants people to particapate or benefit in these resources dierctly (ask the government where are people going to get those investment funds au waulize CDM watafanyaje bila ya sera za socialism) that is the challenge but the intention is not questionable.
 
that is not the matter of your quarry, hayo tena ni ya ufisadi. I thought you are issues were based on poor investment policies? ama una amia kwenye ufisadi maana those are two different topics inside JF na wachangiaji huwa tofauti kabisa panapo ushahidi.
 

Ufisadi unahitaji mazingira, moja ya sifa za mazingira ya ufisadi ni sheria zisizo na benefit.sheria zenye utata. sheria za kutegeshea watu. sheria zisizotabirika.
 
Eric Cartman said:
And for those who want to come in, it's simple they cant participate without the fifty percent of the external shareholders or else the government comes in (Its just local politics na sera za chama na kila nchi inazake).
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Unafahamu nini maana ya debt financing? Hii sheria inazuia ushiriki kwa njia ya debt financing? Do you believe a foreign debt financer cannot invest in gemstone mining in Tanzania kwa mujibu wa sheria hii? Did you read this law?
 
Huyo mwekezaji atakuwa mwendawazimu kwenda kuwekeza without understanding their legal requirements.

Kuna sababu za watunga sheria kufanya hivyo labda makusudi ni kutaka local people wafaidike kwanza (unless you can come up with how local people would benfit, i dont think you having a local political argument but rather a profiteers argument) by the way CDM wakiingia madarakani ndio kabsaa wao wanataka jamaa wajiaumulie sijui itakuaje.

Halafu mbona sio sehemu zote za maliasili zina sera hizo ama, na wewe unaangalia kamisheni yako (sikulaumu)?
 

Si swala la profiteers argument, kuna kitu ktk uchumi na biashara kinaitwa 'value proposition'. Ukipata nafasi fanya utafiti kidogo on the concept and power of 'value proposition'.
 
H.S said:
Unafahamu nini maana ya debt financing? Hii sheria inazuia ushiriki kwa njia ya debt financing? Do you believe a foreign debt financer cannot invest in gemstone mining in Tanzania kwa mujibu wa sheria hii? Did you read this law?
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wewe acha mikwara yako ya kitoto-toto, umezungumzia sera mbovu sasa unaanza hadithi uchwara kwani ku-google tabu (Debt Financing Definition | Investopedia).

By the way serikali aijali wewe hela yako inatoka wapi, sasa kama sheria za huko ulipo zinasema otherwise au lenders wanataka nini, or their opinions on investment towards our land. Hiyo perspective yako is not understood in our shores thousands of miles away.

We've got to formulate our own policies based on the modern market (na soko sio la marekani tu especially la finance ambalo kikubwa kwao ni returns) unachotakiwa ku propose ni jinsi ya kupambana nao hao wafadhuli kwa faida ya wengi wetu ndani ya Tanzania na sio bonuses zako.
 

Nakushauri ukaisome ile sheria.

Sheria ile haimzuii mwekezaji wa nje kuwekeza in 'debt financing', sheria ile inambana 'equity' investor. Muwekezaji anaweza kuwekeza katika kampuni na kuweka hata 80% ya mtaji wote na atakuwa hakukiuka sheria. Si swala la hela inatoka wapi, this is about how the financing is structured because difference structures have different obligations.

Kama sheria inambana equity financer lakini inamwachia debt financer and I am bringing that to your knowledge huoni kwamba I am telling you the law was poorly drafted and why it is poor?

Are you a diwani or something like that? You sound very political.
 
Mbona ueleweki embu weka hicho kipengele ambacho unachodai sheria haitaki equity investor na inataka debt investors to your definitions of the policy (if the government cares so much were the FDI comes from maana hizo ni pumba za ajabu) halafu wewe kweli ni major investor au tia maji maji maana your political decision understanding says your not a PPE we, ni faida tu when it comes to business decisions whereby maamuzi yakisiasa yanaangalia jamii kwa ujumla and when it comes to mining policies the government has to be cautious and political thats how the cookie crumbles .
 

H.S;

You have brought the topic to discuss the merit of the law. I think you should stick to that because adding what mawaziri could do and other sidework doesn't make the discussion better. It only invokes unwarranted emotions.

Now concerning the topic at hand, the act isn't perfect and wasn't designed to be perfect because investment and other variables change overtime. Since 2010, political and investment variables on the ground have altered. So the best way foward is to engage and discuss.

For example, in 90s and 00s the major buyers of our commodities, in particular Gems, were Northern Americans and Europeans. This market wasn't growing and in order to attract investors we had to sweeten our deals. This didn't help us financially.

However, in recent years, the rise of middle class in China and India have tremendously improved the demand for our commodities, and therefore there's a need to change the way we do business with foreign companies legally.

Tanzanians shouldn't afraid to take bold actions legally. Even in America, the government intervene on behalf of the people or consumers. Take for example AT&T. It was the lagest and the only Telephone company in the USA. In 1984, the government intervened, and the company was split into several companies in order to increase competitions.

Moreover. we should note that investors come to Tanzania to make money. The main reason we have allowed them to take 100% of ownership is poor infrustucture, financial institutions, our politics and our previous nationalization policies. If we improve in these areas, investors will be happy to take 20% of the stakes. So making the law itself doesn't make sense, if our power supplies, financial institutions, schools, judicial system, etc are dysfunctional.
 
Mzuvendi said:
H.S;

You have brought the topic to discuss the merit of the law. I think you should stick to that because adding what mawaziri could do and other sidework doesn't make the discussion better. It only invokes unwarranted emotions.

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Mzuvendi, you do not believe there is a relationship between poorly crafted laws and corruption?
 

1) Sheria inasema leseni ya gemstone itatolewa kwa Mtanzania tu na huyo Mtanzania anaweza kushirikiana na investor ilimradi hisa za Mtanzania huyo katika kampuni hiyo zisiwe chini ya asilimia hamsini. Sheria inazuia mgeni kupewa leseni ya kuchimba gemstones. Masharti ya kisheria kwa gemstones hayana suala la kiwango gani cha pesa.
2) Ndugu yangu inabidi usome sheria zote kwa pamoja. Hivi sasa thin capitalisation ni marufuku hapa Tanzania. Nakumbuka mimi binafsi nilimmove schedule of ammendments kwenye kubadili sheria ya kodi ya mapato ya mwaka 2004 na kusema wazi equity must not be less than 30% ya uwkezaji wote (katika kukokotoa kodi). Hivyo debt financing is largely restricted. Hata hivyo pia napenda ufahamu kuwa suala hapa ni umiliki wa kampuni kuwa 50% Watanzania na sio uwekezaji kuwa 50% Watanzania. Dont mix these two things
 
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