Tanzania: Ni yapi yaliyojiri 1995?

[Mkandara]

mkandara unachanganya madawa hapa
sali alizushiwa hayo mambo kwa uchaguzi wa 2005
muanzisha mada anazungumzia uchaguzi wa 1995
na uchaguzi huo salim hakuwepo kabisa katika wagombea,alisema bado ana majukumu oau
ni kweli mwalimu alimtaka achukue fomu,but hakuchukua

Duh mkuu wangu unabisha kitu usichokijua. sasa kama salim kazushiwa mwaka 2005 ilikuwaje awe pendekezo la Nyerere ambaye alikufa mwaka 1999... Mkuu wapi zamani au hujui kama Salim A Salim aliwahi kuwa pendekezo la mwalimu na kukosekana kwake ndio Nyerere hakuwa na jinsi isipokuwa kumweka Mkapa maanake hata Malecela aliisha haribu kuhusiana na serikali tatu.

 

[The Boss]

Duh mkuu wangu unabisha kitu usichokijua. sasa kama salim kazushiwa mwaka 2005 ilikuwaje awe pendekezo la Nyerere ambaye alikufa mwaka 1999... Mkuu wapi zamani au hujui kama Salim A Salim aliwahi kuwa pendekezo la mwalimu na kukosekana kwake ndio Nyerere hakuwa na jinsi isipokuwa kumweka Mkapa maanake hata Malecela aliisha haribu kuhusiana na serikali tatu.

mkuu kuwa makini na data zako utawachanganya mno wadogo ambao hawakuwepo
hilo la wazanzibari kumkataa lilitokea 1985 na mwinyi sio mkapa ndo akapewa urais
mhusika mkuu alikuwa thabit kombo
again narudia ,hii thread inazungumzia 1995

 

[Kibunango]

Prez Kikwete na Lowassa walichukua fomu kwa wakati mmoja na kwa bwebwe za aina yake katika mwaka huo! Kampeni ndani ya chama walifanya pamoja kabla ya mkutano mkuu. Aidha Kikwete alifika mbali baada ya kupata support kubwa toka kwa wajumbe kutoka Zanzibar.

 

[Mkandara]

kuhusu kigoma malima
hebu tazama kumbukumbu zako vizuri
alichukua fomu za kugombea urais ccm
alipotemwa akaenda kujiunga na nra na kuibadilisha kuwa narea

Na hata kuhusu Malima mkuu wangu sina sababu ya kupindisha maneno lakini UDINI ndio ulimpiga vita Malima wala sii swala la scandals za mwaka 1995 akiwa Waziri wa fedha kama zinavyodaiwa. Vyombo vya habari vilitumika kumwangusha baada ya barua yake kwa raisi Mwinyi kuonyesha imbalance ktk elimu wakati yeye akiwa waziri wa elimu and that would be kama sikosei was before 1990..

Ni madai yake dhidi ya elimu nchini ndio yalimmaliza Malima kisiasa, he never had support kutoka upande wa pili na Udini ndipo ulipopamba moto hadi uji wa kina Jumbe kuandika mengi kuhusiana na kama Malima wasinge mkolomba basi angekuwa Dr.Slaa toka upande wa pili..Mtu mwenye nia njema lakini kapakiziwa udini kwa manufaa ya kundio dogo la watu..Na nakumbuka hata mwalimu Nyerere alikuwa upande wake na alitoa hotuba za wazi kuwaambia makanisa kwamba they had their time for too long lakini wapi Malima was a saratani ya kisiasa he has to go!...

 

[Mkandara]

mkuu kuwa makini na data zako utawachanganya mno wadogo ambao hawakuwepo
hilo la wazanzibari kumkataa lilitokea 1985 na mwinyi sio mkapa ndo akapewa urais
mhusika mkuu alikuwa thabit kombo
again narudia ,hii thread inazungumzia 1995

Kwa hiyo umetoka 2005 na kurudi 1985 usiyaone makosa yako ila yangu sio? Mbona haya tumeshayanzunguza sana humu kuhusu Wazanziubar na Salim.. Hata hivyo, Salim alikuwa chaguo la mwalimu kwa uchaguzi wa mwaka 1985 na mwaka 1995 na sii habari za Uislaam sijui ukristu..Haya ebu soma kipande hiki cha election ya mwaka 2005

Salim Ahmed Salim

Dr Salim Ahmed Salim (63) the Chairman of the Mwalimu Nyerere Foundation has had a star-studded career having been Tanzanian Ambassador in several countries, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and having served for an unprecedented three terms as Secretary General of the OAU. If he made mistakes in Addis Ababa they are not well known about at home. He is articulate and has a refreshingly open personality and a good reputation internationally. His long absences overseas have meant that he is not tarred with the brush of corruption which allegedly affects some other CCM leaders. He almost became President twice before. Firstly, in 1980, having been President Nyerere's first choice as his successor but he came up against strong opposition from senior CCM cadres and was the subject of some in-fighting in his native Zanzibar. In 1994 Nyerere asked him to come back to Tanzania to accept nomination in the country's first multi-party elections but he declined the offer..
His candidacy has its weaknesses. Because he has been away so much he is not so well known in the country and may not appeal to the rural masses nor to the younger generation – some CCM youth groups declared that they would not work for the party in the elections if Kikwete was not chosen.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Prez Kikwete na Lowassa walichukua fomu kwa wakati mmoja na kwa bwebwe za aina yake katika mwaka huo! Kampeni ndani ya chama walifanya pamoja kabla ya mkutano mkuu. Aidha Kikwete alifika mbali baada ya kupata support kubwa toka kwa wajumbe kutoka Zanzibar.

Je unafahamu ni nini kilicho pelekea wajumbe wa Zanzibar kumuunga mkono JK mkuu?

 

[Jasusi]

kikwete alifika top three by acciedent mno

ilipofika 1995 idadi kubwa ya waliojitokeza kugombea kwa ccm walikuwa wakristo
na kulikuwa na uvumi kuwa ccm wana utaratibu wa kubadilishana
kwamba amemaliza mwinyi muislam,anaekuja atakuwa mkristo

nyerere alisikia hiyo habari akaikemea mno,akasema rais hata akiwa muislam tena,na tena na tena ili mradi anafaa

but waislam wa ccm wengi hawakuchukua fomu za urais.
siku ya mwisho ya kuchukua fomu,ikawa muislam ni mmoja tu kighoma malima
na kwa kuwa malima alikuwa na kashfa za kodi asingefika mbali..

so nyerere alienda kumwambia kikwete achukue fomu za uraisi ili chama kisionekane
kimewatenga waislam au kuna mfumo wa kubadilisha uongozi kidini...

so kikwete kwa kuwa muislam pekee,akaachiwa jina lake mpaka top three
ingawa wote walikuwa wanajua hatapewa urais....na kuna taarifa kuwa alishinda kura mara ya pili pia...
sababu kubwa alionekana ni too inexperienced

Sidhani kuna ukweli wowote katika dhana kwamba Nyerere alimwambia Kikwete achukue form. Nyerere asingeweza kumwambia Kikwete achukue form halafu baadaye akaja kumponda kwamba hajakomaa. Nyerere alimwambia Salim achukue form lakini Salim alitaka kupewa uteuzi "kwenye sahani," kama alivyokuja kusema Nyerere baadaye. Tuendelee na mjadala

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Na hata kuhusu Malima mkuu wangu sina sababu ya kupindisha maneno lakini UDINI ndio ulimpiga vita Malima wala sii swala la scandals za mwaka 1995 akiwa Waziri wa fedha kama zinavyodaiwa. Vyombo vya habari vilitumika kumwangusha baada ya barua yake kwa raisi Mwinyi kuonyesha imbalance ktk elimu wakati yeye akiwa waziri wa elimu and that would be kama sikosei was before 1990..

Ni madai yake dhidi ya elimu nchini ndio yalimmaliza Malima kisiasa, he never had support kutoka upande wa pili na Udini ndipo ulipopamba moto hadi uji wa kina Jumbe kuandika mengi kuhusiana na kama Malima wasinge mkolomba basi angekuwa Dr.Slaa toka upande wa pili..Mtu mwenye nia njema lakini kapakiziwa udini kwa manufaa ya kundio dogo la watu..Na nakumbuka hata mwalimu Nyerere alikuwa upande wake na alitoa hotuba za wazi kuwaambia makanisa kwamba they had their time for too long lakini wapi Malama was a saratani ya kisiasa he has to go!...

Mh this is new kwangu mkuu. Mimi nilivyo sikiaga ni kwamba Malima alikua ana preach udini wazi wazi mkuu. Sisemi ni kweli nasema tu nilicho sikia.

 

[The Boss]

Kwa hiyo umetoka 2005 na kurudi 1985 usiyaone makosa yako ila yangu sio? Mbona haya tumeshayanzunguza sana humu kuhusu Wazanziubar na Salim.. Hata hivyo, Salim alikuwa chaguo la mwalimu kwa uchaguzi wa mwaka 1985 na mwaka 1995 na sii habari za Uislaam sijui ukristu..Haya ebu soma kipande hiki cha election ya mwaka 2005

Salim Ahmed Salim

Dr Salim Ahmed Salim (63) the Chairman of the Mwalimu Nyerere Foundation has had a star-studded career having been Tanzanian Ambassador in several countries, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and having served for an unprecedented three terms as Secretary General of the OAU. If he made mistakes in Addis Ababa they are not well known about at home. He is articulate and has a refreshingly open personality and a good reputation internationally. His long absences overseas have meant that he is not tarred with the brush of corruption which allegedly affects some other CCM leaders. He almost became President twice before. Firstly, in 1980, having been President Nyerere's first choice as his successor but he came up against strong opposition from senior CCM cadres and was the subject of some in-fighting in his native Zanzibar. In 1994 Nyerere asked him to come back to Tanzania to accept nomination in the country's first multi-party elections but he declined the offer..
His candidacy has its weaknesses. Because he has been away so much he is not so well known in the country and may not appeal to the rural masses nor to the younger generation – some CCM youth groups declared that they would not work for the party in the elections if Kikwete was not chosen.

unaona unavyojichanganya mwenyewe?
nimekwambia salim hakuwepo kwenye wagombea 1995 alikataa
na hiyo article imesema hivyo hivyo,tofauti wao wamesema 1994
sasa unabisha nini hapo?????/

 

[The Boss]

Sidhani kuna ukweli wowote katika dhana kwamba Nyerere alimwambia Kikwete achukue form. Nyerere asingeweza kumwambia Kikwete achukue form halafu baadaye akaja kumponda kwamba hajakomaa. Nyerere alimwambia Salim achukue form lakini Salim alitaka kupewa uteuzi "kwenye sahani," kama alivyokuja kusema Nyerere baadaye. Tuendelee na mjadala

wewe nahisi si kweli lakini
hayo ni mambo ya wazi mno
yameandikwa mpaka na jenerali ulimwengu kwenye magazeti
sasa labda wewe unaweza kuwa na info za ndani zaidi kumzidi jenerali

 

[The Boss]

Mh this is new kwangu mkuu. Mimi nilivyo sikiaga ni kwamba Malima alikua ana preach udini wazi wazi mkuu. Sisemi ni kweli nasema tu nilicho sikia.

mkuu hayo ya kighoma malima ni habari nyingine ndefu
tunaweza haribu hii thread kwa maoni yangu

tatizo mkandara anakuja na malalamiko hapa na sio
habari rasmi

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Je ni kweli wajumbe wa Zanzibar walimpinga Salim kwa kuamini kweli alitumika kumuua mzee Karume au wajumbe walinunuliwa kusema hivyo?
Na je kwa nini leo badhi Wazanzibar wanapiga kelele 2015 lazima raisi atoke Zanzibar wakati walikataa bahati hiyo mara mbili kupitia Salim?

 

[Jasusi]

wewe nahisi si kweli lakini
hayo ni mambo ya wazi mno
yameandikwa mpaka na jenerali ulimwengu kwenye magazeti
sasa labda wewe unaweza kuwa na info za ndani zaidi kumzidi jenerali

Boss,
Kama Jenerali ( ambaye namwaminia sana) ameandika kuwa Nyerere alimshauri Kikwete achukue form halafu akaja kumponda kuwa hajakomaa kisiasa naomba utuwekee hapa nakala hiyo. Ama sivyo mimi nitampigia simu Jenerali kesho nimuulize kituko hiki. Kwa sababu nimfahamuvyo Nyerere alikuwa ni mtu wa principles na asingeweza kumshauri Kikwete achukue forms halafu aje amponde hadharani baadaye. Haiingii akilini kabisa.

 

[Mkandara]

Mh this is new kwangu mkuu. Mimi nilivyo sikiaga ni kwamba Malima alikua ana preach udini wazi wazi mkuu. Sisemi ni kweli nasema tu nilicho sikia.

Yeah, inategemea wewe unautazama vipi Udini kwa sababu Malima alichoandika wala sio kusema ni kuonyesha imbalance ktk elimu na jinsi Waislaam na wanawake walivyokuwa hawapewi nafasi sawa na vijanwa kikristu kuendelea na masomo hata kama wanatoka shule moja.. Na kibaya zaidi yeye alikuwa waziri wa Elimu lakini sisi wote tulimpiga vita pamoja na kwamba alikuwa na report kamili yenye ushahidi wa kuonyesha kutokuwepo uuwiano huo...

Sasa nambie kwa nini hatukufanya hata uchunguzi kuitazama report yake badala yake alikuwa akihojiwa tu ili kuonyesha jionsi gani alivyokuwa mdini ktk kutetea report yake ambayo iliwahusu both waislaam na wanawake..Halafu utawasikia watu kama Boss wanasema nakuja na malalamiko hali It is a report for Christ sake na ndio tunaizungumzia na ndio ilikuwa kazi alopewa Malima kuifanya akiwa kama waziri wa elimu.. Sasa kasema hakuna uuwiano na utafiti anao tayari akapachikwa Udini ipi habari kamili ama malalamiko, besides no one could prove him wrong hadi leo hii tunazungumza hapa JF!

 

[Jasusi]

Je ni kweli wajumbe wa Zanzibar walimpinga Salim kwa kuamini kweli alitumika kumuua mzee Karume au wajumbe walinunuliwa kusema hivyo?
Na je kwa nini leo badhi Wazanzibar wanapiga kelele 2015 lazima raisi atoke Zanzibar wakati walikataa bahati hiyo mara mbili kupitia Salim?

Zanzibar nayo inatafunwa na siasa za makundi. Salim hajawahi kuwa mtu wao kwa sababu mpaka leo wamemlebo kuwa ni Hizbu. Wenyewe wanafikiria kiongozi bora lazima atoke AFP. Ndio maana Nyerere alisema Wazanzibari wakijitenga haitaishia hapo. Itakuwepo Wazanzibari,Wazanzibara, na Wapemba.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Boss,
Kama Jenerali ( ambaye namwaminia sana) ameandika kuwa Nyerere alimshauri Kikwete achukue form halafu akaja kumponda kuwa hajakomaa kisiasa naomba utuwekee hapa nakala hiyo. Ama sivyo mimi nitampigia simu Jenerali kesho nimuulize kituko hiki. Kwa sababu nimfahamuvyo Nyerere alikuwa ni mtu wa principles na asingeweza kumshauri Kikwete achukue forms halafu aje amponde hadharani baadaye. Haiingii akilini kabisa.

Hata mimi hii inanichanganya kidogo. Kwa sababu nilivyo kuwa najua mimi (na sina inside story) ni kwamba JKN alikua anaona JK haja komaa kisiasa na asingefaa kuwa raisi (was true then and mh maybe it's true even now). Bado nafikiria kwa nini amuombe achukue form halafu aje kumponda tena hadharani. Bado nataka kujua zaidi kuhusu hili. Labda The Boss anajua kitu tusicho fahamu.

 

[Kibunango]

Je unafahamu ni nini kilicho pelekea wajumbe wa Zanzibar kumuunga mkono JK mkuu?

Sababu kubwa iliyokuwa wazi ni kwa Kikwete kuwahi kufanya kazi Zanzibar alipokuwa mwanajeshi.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Zanzibar nayo inatafunwa na siasa za makundi. Salim hajawahi kuwa mtu wao kwa sababu mpaka leo wamemlebo kuwa ni Hizbu. Wenyewe wanafikiria kiongozi bora lazima atoke AFP. Ndio maana Nyerere alisema Wazanzibari wakijitenga haitaishia hapo. Itakuwepo Wazanzibari,Wazanzibara, na Wapemba.

Dah yani ndiyo hicho tu kilicho muondolea sifa Salim mbele ya Wazanzibar? Basi kama ni hivyo sielewi leo wana lalamika nini. Au wanataka uongozi ushikwa na watoto wa waasisi tu?

 

[The Boss]

Boss,
Kama Jenerali ( ambaye namwaminia sana) ameandika kuwa Nyerere alimshauri Kikwete achukue form halafu akaja kumponda kuwa hajakomaa kisiasa naomba utuwekee hapa nakala hiyo. Ama sivyo mimi nitampigia simu Jenerali kesho nimuulize kituko hiki. Kwa sababu nimfahamuvyo Nyerere alikuwa ni mtu wa principles na asingeweza kumshauri Kikwete achukue forms halafu aje amponde hadharani baadaye. Haiingii akilini kabisa.

yes
kukata mzizi wa fitina naomba umpigie simu jenerali mwenyewe halafu
uje hapa useme ni nini umeambiwa huko.....

usisahau suala la kuchukua fomu ni mchakato..
sio mtu akiambiwa chukua fomu basi ndo kaambiwa unakuwa rais
nyerere actually alimwambia hata msekwa achukue fomu
na msekwa hakufika hata top three

 

[Mkandara]

unaona unavyojichanganya mwenyewe?
nimekwambia salim hakuwepo kwenye wagombea 1995 alikataa
na hiyo article imesema hivyo hivyo,tofauti wao wamesema 1994
sasa unabisha nini hapo?????/

Mkuu wewe ndio huelewi nachokizungumzia. Kote huku tumezunguka pasipo sababu kwa sababu ni wewe uliyesema habari za Udini na JK na kadhalika. Katika hali hiyo umeonyesha wazi haja ya waislaam kuwa na mgombea mwaka 1995, kama vile waislaam walikuwa desperate na uongozi sijui wa kupishana kiawamu..Huu ni upotoshaji wa makusudi kabisa kwani hatukuwa na kitu kama hicho hata kidogo..Hiki ndicho nilichokikataa kutoka statement yako ya kwanza na ndio nikalivuta jina la Salim na Malima kukuonyesha waislaam walikuwepo na wangeweza kugombea na wala halikuwa swala la dini..

Haikuwa sababu mwaka gani nani alichukua form bali kupinga dhana ya udini ambayo wewe unajaribu kuipandikiza..Tena basi ningependa sana labda ulijibu swali la Jasusi ambalo wewe umesema Nyerere alimwambia Jk achukue form kuwalikisha waislaam kisha JKN huyo huyo akamwambia hajakomaa kisiasa!..Mtu alomwambia achukue form kutetea wagombea wa kiislaam kisha akamwondoa mgombea huyo wa waislaam!.. huoni kama hii habari ni potovu!