Tetesi: The Government has admitted that the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) is a hard sell to businesses, as it costs twice as much to ferry cargo by rail than

Tetesi: The Government has admitted that the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) is a hard sell to businesses, as it costs twice as much to ferry cargo by rail than

Mkikuyu Akili-Timamu you still didn't clear the points i raised,let us be objective and do the math,as far as demurrage is concerned charges are levied by the shipping line to the importer if the container is not moved out of the terminal for unpacking within the allowed free days,for example,the discharge of a container takes place on 1 jan but the importing freight forwader,unware of the arrival of the cargo,only picks it up on 11 jan,the lay time of the container in the import terminal is calculated within 11 days,if we now assume the allowed free time was 5 days,unexpected demurrage charges for 6 days would be levied by the shipping line,depending on the agreed rates,the demmurage cost for 6 days easily doubles the total transportation cost of a container,but we all know sgr has greatly reduced this dwell/lay time,my question is,how then is it an extra cost when actually reduces dwell time???secondly,storage charges are inevitable,all shipping lines eventually dock at the port,whether durban,mombasa,dar or wherever,storage charge is a must,how then is it an extra cost???
Kunta Kinte, tofauti ipo hivi;
1) Mombasa expenses ni sawa kote kwa SGR na barabara
2)Ukifika Nairobi kuna handling charges na storage, ukitumia lory hizi hazipo
3)Kutoka Nairobi kuna gharama za last miles, ambazo zinajumlisha kupakia juu ya lory na kupakua.
4)Kuna gharama za kurudisha container tupu hadi Mombasa, wakati kwenye lory hiyo haipo,

Ili Sgr iweze kuwa cheap ukilinganisha na barabara, lazima freight costs ziwe nusu ya barabara ili kufidia gharama za double handling na last miles.

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Mkikuyu Akili-Timamu you still didn't clear the points i raised,let us be objective and do the math,as far as demurrage is concerned charges are levied by the shipping line to the importer if the container is not moved out of the terminal for unpacking within the allowed free days,for example,the discharge of a container takes place on 1 jan but the importing freight forwader,unware of the arrival of the cargo,only picks it up on 11 jan,the lay time of the container in the import terminal is calculated within 11 days,if we now assume the allowed free time was 5 days,unexpected demurrage charges for 6 days would be levied by the shipping line,depending on the agreed rates,the demmurage cost for 6 days easily doubles the total transportation cost of a container,but we all know sgr has greatly reduced this dwell/lay time,my question is,how then is it an extra cost when actually reduces dwell time???secondly,storage charges are inevitable,all shipping lines eventually dock at the port,whether durban,mombasa,dar or wherever,storage charge is a must,how then is it an extra cost???
It realy does not matter, even if they reduce lay time (mombasa+nairobi) to the single 5 days for trucked cargo at mombasa no one wants double handling.
And to make matters worse is the issue of returning empties which is not a cost for trucks..
In a nutshell, the cost of Sgr per container should be so low that it beats all the advantages of trucking..Maybe like 10,000 per container which is impossible with a SGR on expensive loan and high operating cost due to chinese opearation contract in place
 
Mkikuyu Akili-Timamu na joto la jiwe,the Nairobi inland container deport has a free storage period for import containers for a maximum of 4 days,which double handling are you talking about here,4 days is ample time for an importer to collect his container.
 
Mkikuyu Akili-Timamu na joto la jiwe,the Nairobi inland container deport has a free storage period for import containers for a maximum of 4 days,which double handling are you talking about here,4 days is ample time for an importer to collect his container.
Thats why am saying it doesnt matter..Even when the cargo does not suffer demurrage charges, its is still twice as expensive compared to trucking
 
Mkikuyu Akili-Timamu na joto la jiwe,the Nairobi inland container deport has a free storage period for import containers for a maximum of 4 days,which double handling are you talking about here,4 days is ample time for an importer to collect his container.
Nairobi inland container is supposed to handle cargo the same way like Mombasa port, like off loading of containers from trains, storage of containers and loading of containers on lories for the last mailes, if some one uses lories from Mombasa straight, this double handling is not there, remember at Mombasa Port, there will be the same handling charges from ships to trains.

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Let gets' facts straight.

1) Trucks charge anything 80-100K (800-1000usd) to Nairobi including last mile delivery and return of empty container to the depot. Typically it would take you 1-2 days - 1 day to get through KPA port & congestion in Miritini & deal with police & weigh bridge and another day to actually drive the truck to Nairobi.

2) SGR use to charge promotional offer of 250-300K (now I think it's around 500-700usd). You still need to hire a truck to do last mile - around 15-20k - and return the container to Mombasa (150) or for SGR to return it (100USD). Give and take you total cost will be around 500+200+100 =800-1000usd. The last mile ought to similar take you 1 day.

3) So as you can see really SGR and Trucks are both competitive when dealing with containerized cargo - COST wise. The problem right now is congestion in Nairobi ICD that leads to delays and demurrage charges (KPA charges this to discourage the same delays). This is teething problem as more and more cargo uses SGR - and the solution is to have more and more dry ports -- have one in Athi River, expand Nairobi one, have Naivasha one, and have Kisumu one. This is work in progress!

4) The same scenario with passenger services...it cost about the same with bus. The difference is SGR for both passenger and cargo is safe,more comfortable, faster, less prone to accidents, thieves, delays and name it.

5) Railways are meant to transport really heavy cargo. They are not competitive when transporting passengers or containers. Containers have max tonnage of around 28 because of road limits ! Railways are designed to carry cargo more than 70 tonnes!

6) Kenya SGR will start to make money and business sense when it taps into bulk cargo - and they already started that - there is a lot of cereals (wheat, rice, etc) that kenya imports, lots of clinkers, bulk fuel and such cargo that are needed in hinterland - Nairobi. This is where SGR will be competitive - because they can carry way more capacity cheaply and faster.

7) Kenya SGR is already a huge success if you consider it's operated for barely 1-2yrs now - and it's already nearly breaking even. There are already handling most of the teething problems. Bulk cargo terminal I heard is under construction - Naivasha is 90% complete and soon they will start on ICD - should be pretty easy for Chinese to just level some field - erect a fence and install marshalling equipment. For containers - they need to integrate with old MGR line - at least to Industrial area and most of Nairobi. That will lessen the pain of last mile.

8) Kenya SGR (KRA,KPA,TREASURY) need to STOP FORCING IMPORTERS and start behaving like a logistic provider. That mean taking the business that Bollore, DHL, Multiple and likes of Signon do - by talking to big clients like Bamburi, EABL and Millers - and offering TOTAL LOGISTICS operations. That may including extending railway line to big cement companies and maybe revamping the old MGR for others.

9) Magufuli SGR doesn't make any sense to me. Darsallem is most important city in TZ. Most of the cargo will end up there. Unless they develop minning industry in hinterlands of morogoro, arusha,mwanza - that railway IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL.


1) Even if there is no ICD congestion in Nairobi, there is no one intrested to pay for double handling
2)Ugandan business men have abandoned the SGR and that is a big blow since the profits are better the longer the journey
3)There is no bulk cargo to import except maize, rice and clincker that will kill our local farmers and industries.
4)This is a white elephant, even the chinese who have been stealing ticketing money have abandoned it
 
Let gets' facts straight.

1) Trucks charge anything 80-100K (800-1000usd) to Nairobi including last mile delivery and return of empty container to the depot. Typically it would take you 1-2 days - 1 day to get through KPA port & congestion in Miritini & deal with police & weigh bridge and another day to actually drive the truck to Nairobi.

2) SGR use to charge promotional offer of 250-300K (now I think it's around 500-700usd. You still need to hire a truck to do last mile - around 15-20k - and return the container to Mombasa (150) or for SGR to return it (100USD). Give and take you total cost will be around 500+200+100 =800-1000usd. The last mile ought to similar take you 1 day.

3) So as you can see really SGR and Trucks are both competitive when dealing with containerized cargo - COST wise. The problem right now is congestion in Nairobi ICD that leads to delays and demurrage charges (KPA charges this to discourage the same delays). This is teething problem as more and more cargo uses SGR - and the solution is to have more and more dry ports -- have one in Athi River, expand Nairobi one, have Naivasha one, and have Kisumu one. This is work in progress!

4) The same scenario with passenger services...it cost about the same with bus. The difference is SGR for both passenger and cargo is safe,more comfortable, faster, less prone to accidents, thieves, delays and name it.

5) Railways are meant to transport really heavy cargo. They are not competitive when transporting passengers or containers. Containers have max tonnage of around 28 because of road limits ! Railways are designed to carry cargo more than 70 tonnes!

6) Kenya SGR will start to make money and business sense when it taps into bulk cargo - and they already started that - there is a lot of cereals (wheat, rice, etc) that kenya imports, lots of clinkers, bulk fuel and such cargo that are needed in hinterland - Nairobi. This is where SGR will be competitive - because they can carry way more capacity cheaply and faster.

7) Kenya SGR is already a huge success if you consider it's operated for barely 1-2yrs now - and it's already nearly breaking even. There are already handling most of the teething problems. Bulk cargo terminal I heard is under construction - Naivasha is 90% complete and soon they will start on ICD - should be pretty easy for Chinese to just level some field - erect a fence and install marshalling equipment. For containers - they need to integrate with old MGR line - at least to Industrial area and most of Nairobi. That will lessen the pain of last mile.

8) Magufuli SGR doesn't make any sense to me. Darsallem is most important city in TZ. Most of the cargo will end up there. Unless they develop minning industry in hinterlands of morogoro, arusha,mwanza - that railway IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL.
Hahahaha, Tanzania railway is more economic, unless you think myopically, 70% of manufacturing activities concentrates around Dar es Salaam, but 80% of customers live up countries, including Burundi, Rwanda and DRC, SGR will make goods manufactured around Dar to reach them faster and cheap.

90% of raw materials of above mentioned industries are from up country, they will transported faster and cheaply to Dar for processing, hence goods manufactured will be cheap.

Dar port saves Rwanda, Burundi, Eastern DRC and part of Uganda. Huge mineral deposit of Copper from DRC, which currently uses Road via Zambia to Dar, will go through Rwanda to Dar.

Tanzania is at its final stages to start iron mining, without this train, is impossible to use road. With big size of the country, and because the train is high spead and it connects Dar and Dodoma, it is the game changer for passengers movement.

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Hahahaha, Tanzania railway is more economic, unless you think myopically, 70% of manufacturing activities concentrates around Dar es Salaam, but 80% of customers live up countries, including Burundi, Rwanda and DRC, SGR will make goods manufactured around Dar to reach them faster and cheap.

90% of raw materials of above mentioned industries are from up country, they will transported faster and cheaply to Dar for processing, hence goods manufactured will be cheap.

Dar port saves Rwanda, Burundi, Eastern DRC and part of Uganda. Huge mineral deposit of Copper from DRC, which currently uses Road via Zambia to Dar, will go through Rwanda to Dar.

Tanzania is at its final stages to start iron mining, without this train, is impossible to use road. With big size of the country, and because the train is high spead and it connects Dar and Dodoma, it is the game changer for passengers movement.

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Poor countries...DRC mizigo yake like 70% Inapitia Beira,,,other countries hapo ni provinces with less cargo.
 
Let gets' facts straight.

1) Trucks charge anything 80-100K (800-1000usd) to Nairobi including last mile delivery and return of empty container to the depot. Typically it would take you 1-2 days - 1 day to get through KPA port & congestion in Miritini & deal with police & weigh bridge and another day to actually drive the truck to Nairobi.

2) SGR use to charge promotional offer of 250-300K (now I think it's around 500-700usd). You still need to hire a truck to do last mile - around 15-20k - and return the container to Mombasa (150) or for SGR to return it (100USD). Give and take you total cost will be around 500+200+100 =800-1000usd. The last mile ought to similar take you 1 day.

3) So as you can see really SGR and Trucks are both competitive when dealing with containerized cargo - COST wise. The problem right now is congestion in Nairobi ICD that leads to delays and demurrage charges (KPA charges this to discourage the same delays). This is teething problem as more and more cargo uses SGR - and the solution is to have more and more dry ports -- have one in Athi River, expand Nairobi one, have Naivasha one, and have Kisumu one. This is work in progress!

4) The same scenario with passenger services...it cost about the same with bus. The difference is SGR for both passenger and cargo is safe,more comfortable, faster, less prone to accidents, thieves, delays and name it.

5) Railways are meant to transport really heavy cargo. They are not competitive when transporting passengers or containers. Containers have max tonnage of around 28 because of road limits ! Railways are designed to carry cargo more than 70 tonnes!

6) Kenya SGR will start to make money and business sense when it taps into bulk cargo - and they already started that - there is a lot of cereals (wheat, rice, etc) that kenya imports, lots of clinkers, bulk fuel and such cargo that are needed in hinterland - Nairobi. This is where SGR will be competitive - because they can carry way more capacity cheaply and faster.

7) Kenya SGR is already a huge success if you consider it's operated for barely 1-2yrs now - and it's already nearly breaking even. There are already handling most of the teething problems. Bulk cargo terminal I heard is under construction - Naivasha is 90% complete and soon they will start on ICD - should be pretty easy for Chinese to just level some field - erect a fence and install marshalling equipment. For containers - they need to integrate with old MGR line - at least to Industrial area and most of Nairobi. That will lessen the pain of last mile.

8) Magufuli SGR doesn't make any sense to me. Darsallem is most important city in TZ. Most of the cargo will end up there. Unless they develop minning industry in hinterlands of morogoro, arusha,mwanza - that railway IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL.
THERE is NO promotional pricing any more.
You are here trying to discredit a jubilee government appointed agency that has clearly said with or without demurrage charges at Nairobi ICD, SGR transportation is still expensive.
Cargo spends weeks in the high seas..speed for the last 500km is not important. What is important is the cost which SGR cannot compete with trucks.
This is a failed project mostly because of its cost (high intrest loans and expensive chinese management contract) which cannot allow competitive pricing
 
Poor countries...DRC mizigo yake like 70% Inapitia Beira,,,other countries hapo ni provinces with less cargo.
Hahahaha, unaumwa kichwa yako wewe, Zambia na Malawi zilizopakana na Msumbiji, 98% ya mizigo yao hupitia Dar, vipi DRC ipitie Beira Msumbiji?. Njoo ujionee semi trailers zilizojaa Cooper toka Lubumbashi zilivyojaza barabara za Tanzania.

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Poor countries...DRC mizigo yake like 70% Inapitia Beira,,,other countries hapo ni provinces with less cargo.

teh teh teh tihiii
sometimes keeping quite is very big answer.
now see how you spread your legs while others see your .....
 
There you go with sweeping statements.I clearly indicate that now that promotional tarrif is ending ( I think they extended this to march or jan this year) and still it's very competitive to roads if they only deal with promotional issues. The new tarrif is 500-700usd with another 100usd for return of empties.

The amount of hassle it takes through roads is the reason you're crying about the last mile.

SGR objective include time, cost, security and safety - and definitely SGR is off to great start.

As for you Tanzania railway to nowhere - God help you pay back the commercial loan.

Kenya got a great deal from Chinese and I here they are going to fund it all the way to Kisumu.

THERE is NO promotional pricing any more.
You are here trying to discredit a jubilee government appointed agency that has clearly said with or without demurrage charges at Nairobi ICD, SGR transportation is still expensive.
Cargo spends weeks in the high seas..speed for the last 500km is not important. What is important is the cost which SGR cannot compete with trucks.
This is a failed project mostly because of its cost (high intrest loans and expensive chinese management contract) which cannot allow competitive pricing
 
Shida yote hiyo inatokana na cha juu. the project cost was highly inflated, without considering if the projected revenue are Real and affordable. their concern was how to pocket money and not to see the wellbeing of the project.
After this note, it's now officially that, the Mombasa port is going to be foreclosed by Mandarin speaking people. because no any business person will move his CARGO vide SGR as it highly eats the bottom line.
 
You're just arguing for the sake of it. Which manufactured goods will railway transport from Dars to Mwanza or Mogogoro enough to make them sustainable. Nairobi-Mombasa make economic sense because Nairobi is economic center that requires a lot of logistics.

Raw materials and finished goods would be consolidated from all over TZ - by Tanzania Army - and then put in railway? Or as you would expect they will be picked by small trucks and taken to industries?

TZ railway will NEVER make money this century unless they discover some huge heavy minerals. Coal is down south in Mtwara. Maybe you discover iron ore or something like that in middle of TZ.

Rwanda is a little country with little cargo - and so is Burundi. Don't bet on them. Maybe Congo. TAZARA already handles the southern countries - Malawi & Zambia - with little success.

In short TZ railway will mostly be doing passengers services - unless they get Uganda --- which is impossible considering it's doesn't make economic sense and kenya will be in Uganda pretty soon..

Hahahaha, Tanzania railway is more economic, unless you think myopically, 70% of manufacturing activities concentrates around Dar es Salaam, but 80% of customers live up countries, including Burundi, Rwanda and DRC, SGR will make goods manufactured around Dar to reach them faster and cheap.

90% of raw materials of above mentioned industries are from up country, they will transported faster and cheaply to Dar for processing, hence goods manufactured will be cheap.

Dar port saves Rwanda, Burundi, Eastern DRC and part of Uganda. Huge mineral deposit of Copper from DRC, which currently uses Road via Zambia to Dar, will go through Rwanda to Dar.

Tanzania is at its final stages to start iron mining, without this train, is impossible to use road. With big size of the country, and because the train is high spead and it connects Dar and Dodoma, it is the game changer for passengers movement.

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Mnawacheka Wabongo wanajenga vituo vidogo, sasa hivyo vya Kenya mtafugia nini humo ndani ili kupunguza makali ya gharama za uendeshaji. Sifa za kujitakia zinawatafuna 🏃🏃🏃
 
There you go with sweeping statements.I clearly indicate that now that promotional tarrif is ending ( I think they extended this to march or jan this year) and still it's very competitive to roads if they only deal with promotional issues. The new tarrif is 500-700usd with another 100usd for return of empties.

The amount of hassle it takes through roads is the reason you're crying about the last mile.

SGR objective include time, cost, security and safety - and definitely SGR is off to great start.

As for you Tanzania railway to nowhere - God help you pay back the commercial loan.

Kenya got a great deal from Chinese and I here they are going to fund it all the way to Kisumu.
Promotion pricing is by taxpayers..why should kenyans pay 30-50k per container on behalf of private indivuduals and ugandans? who prevously paid their bills and never asked or wanted a subsidy?
Road transport is safe and is used in all developed countries, stop insinuating that its "unsafe". The issue is cost, if Road turns out to be cheaper then the rail becomes a white elephant.
 
Hahahaha, unaumwa kichwa yako wewe, Zambia na Malawi zilizopakana na Msumbiji, 98% ya mizigo yao hupitia Dar, vipi DRC ipitie Beira Msumbiji?. Njoo ujionee semi trailers zilizojaa Cooper toka Lubumbashi zilivyojaza barabara za Tanzania.

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Mbona traffic ya Dar ni less than Mombasa by half...Na Mombasa ni mainly Kenya na Uganda.....poor small countries.
 
Mbona traffic ya Dar ni less than Mombasa by half...Na Mombasa ni mainly Kenya na Uganda.....poor small countries.
Because we have other two ports serving different parts of the country, Tanga serves the northern Tanzania, and Mtwara serves Southern Tanzania.

Ukisikia Korosho, na Dangote cement, mizigo hiyo yote haipitii Dar Port. Changanya na hizo bandari uone kama Mombasa itasikika.

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Because we have other two ports serving different parts of the country, Tanga serves the northern Tanzania, and Mtwara serves Southern Tanzania.

Ukisikia Korosho, na Dangote cement, mizigo hiyo yote haipitii Dar Port. Changanya na hizo bandari uone kama Mombasa itasikika.

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Jumuisha Tanga na mtwara pia...mko chini sana.
Tumbo mweupe Loading!!!
 
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