This election is not about Lowassa, It is about us

I will also answer for Sonko Jr. , I can see he has been banned by JF......

iArmaniAdamson said:
well we have one Election body which is responsible of administering, counting and announcing votes. I can give their link to check that Pres. Magufuli received 8M votes. what can you point me at for your evidence?
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Only NEC is announcing results but anybody else can do the tallying and have the total results.....
 The number of times UKAWA has been allowed to rally in the previous years does not in any way turn void any allegation(s) of misconduct and violation of constitutional freedom of assembly for the same organization in 2015.....
iArmaniAdamson said:
I never refuse that allegation, read all my posts, I have always openly admitted that in CCM there are crooks. One of them was E Lowassa, your presidential candidate.
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Others are Magufuli (incumbent president), Kikwete (4th president), Escrow team, Meremeta, EPA, Radar scandal and list goes on and on.....mind you, many of them are still in CCM....
iArmaniAdamson said:
well, what i meant by that statement is, if it is necessarly, we will ensure we override our own proceedings and get rid of popular but corrupt candidates like E Lowassa in order to nominate upright and non corrupt candidates like JPM.
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What do you say about various corrupt activities linked to Magufuli and his former Ministries, are they made up?..and that we haven't lost any shillings from his misappropriation of public funds?

BTW, people have gone through this for some time now, where were you?....were you that far from the news outlets?
 
If Tanzania wants an election that is credible (we have never had one) we should have an independent NEC (actually more independent than Kenya's), because without it, the opposition will always claim their votes have been stolen now that it's clear they are not allowed to sum up their own votes. But with an independent NEC, it is more likely that democracy will be respected.

There shouldn't be use of elements of force and intimidation against the opposition because without such elements, there will be fewer or no allegations of violation of laws and principles of democracy. But with such elements, the opposition and their supporters will always feel their room is purposefully limited to favour CCM.

Votes should be counted openly and publicly with reasonable number of people in addition to party agents witnessing. The idea of 200M or 300M should be scrapped. When that happens, there will no longer be any need to spend Billions to preach about peace where justice is nowhere to be found or spend heavy in buying police equipments and vehicles prior to an election. But without it, activities by CCM such as carrying of fake ballots to polling stations will always continue and distrust of NEC's officials and properties will always be part of our lives.

Ultimately, the playing field should be levelled. An environment where every party is playing by the same set of rules, without cheating, without favors, without using force and intimidation, with fairness, with respect and most importantly with justice.
 

I requested an official results form, do you know that JF is a user generated content? anyone can come here and say anything?
BLUE: What reason? Do you have any evidence to back up your reason?....Why are they not enjoying their constitutional right to bail?.......
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i thought you live in TZ? i saw on the news, that police raided and it was announced they raided the office because of interference of NEC vote counting? what constitution right to bail?
LIME: What happens after counting is that all the results are pinned outside (implied: provided the counting was done inside) for everyone to see and to add for themselves....
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yes, all votes were counted by NEC administrators and displayed outside the polling station. Who added what to themselves? there were observers as well present.
VOIOLET: Those people were not counting votes cast, they were counting and adding electoral results.....Which section and which provision of that Act denies people from counting and adding votes from various polling stations?...
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i take you have not read the Elections ACT of 1977, no is to interfere or count votes, if you are not NEC rep all you got to do is vote and go home and wait for the final tally to be announced. You can open another thread and we will discuss Election ACT, And i will be able to show you.
TURQUOISE: Which law? How was the opposition going contrary to the provisions of that law? elaborate......
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refer to the answer above, under "violet". it states clearly that any person counting and declare their own vote count is RELIABLE FOR FINE, IMPRISONMENT OR BOTH penalties.
if you refer to the arrests made at LHR centre then these people were acting contrary to the law and were arrested for breaking the law not for abiding by the law.
i appreciate your clarification on those terms, but no is allowed to INTERFERE with NEC, whatever these peope choose to call what they were doing it was against the law of the land.
(a) that is proof that democracy is alive, when people contest their results! where there is no democracy you cant question legitimacy of results.
(b) no one is perfect, NEC are not perfect
(c) because they are easily to be handled at court level, on average 100,000 people vote for an MP, compare to 5 Mil for PoURT.

If CCM's chairman is appointing NEC's chairman, secretary and other top officials....CCM as a party is participating in the election...I will argue that CCM is deciding the elections for the voters...
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i disagree with that, because i dont think CCM chairman will point NEC Chairman to allow opposition to win some MP seats. the only issue with CCM involvement is power and I am sure if other parties were in power will use the same executive order at their disposal to appoint someone at NEC.

that was your assumption, you said thousands of corrupt officials, and I disagree. I am not sure if i followed your example about Malaysia. you can elaborate more, certainly i wont call anyone a liar, I have my doubts and reservations.

(1) NO. courts dont work like that, a person must be heard, evidence brought forward and then verdict.
(2) I believe our court system is independent enough and they are capable of handling these cases, the issue is in the running costs. I believe even Pres. Mkapa did a review with press regarding the mammoth task in prosecuting corrupt leaders in gov.
(3). No, we should continue but people need to understand its not an easy task, these people are seasoned and they know their craft in bribing. If gov is not careful you might end up wasting even more revenue.
Can Magufuli sign new employment contracts with these people to work in his administration?
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the best way is not to work with someone with allegations. it is better to give opportunity to people who are dont have those allegations.
i dont know, i cant follow the logic you are trying to explain, but these people were breaking the law. whether they had good intention if its beyond breaking the law then you dont have argument before the law, you are a criminal.
BLUE: Were you looking for positive feedbacks only?...such that reports not fulfilling your interests were incorrect?....
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well, a feedback is feedback, whether negative or positive but i can assure you they wont say one thing about that election based on their activities and records, rest assured.
 
Jack Daniel's said:
I will also answer for Sonko Jr. , I can see he has been banned by JF......
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oll kollekt

Only NEC is announcing results but anybody else can do the tallying and have the total results.....
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that is defined as interference with NEC, according to the current Elections ACT.

The number of times UKAWA has been allowed to rally in the previous years does not in any way turn void any allegation(s) of misconduct and violation of constitutional freedom of assembly for the same organization in 2015.....
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you completely missed my point here, Sonko was saying oppositions were not allowed to rally, and I said, that is not true because we have seen oppositions rallying so many times before.
Others are Magufuli (incumbent president), Kikwete (4th president), Escrow team, Meremeta, EPA, Radar scandal and list goes on and on.....mind you, many of them are still in CCM....
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i was asked to name leaders with Mwalimu Nyerere spirit, and you have mentioned people who were not on my list, I believe JPM has Mwalimu's spirit, its just sometimes people dont understand that being in public office you tend to make mistakes in decisions you make, we all have shortcomings, OF COURSE not to the scale of siphoning funds.

refer to my comment above, people make mistakes, but the most important question was did he do for himself and was he acting at the best of his knowledge at the time? I dont believe he did what he did based on selfishness or personal gain.
 
iArmaniAdamson said:
I requested an officialresults form, do you know that JF is a user generated content? anyone can comehere and say anything?.
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Well, that link was posted by JF Administration. They don't post unverified reports. That is what I have, can you share with us what you have to prove me wrong?....... According to police reports, these people were not arrested for tallying votes. According to you, tallying votes is illegal (interference with NEC). Now, it is incumbent upon you to tell us which law, section and provision say that tallying votes is illegal.......Also, NEC's Chairman (Lubuva) said prior to the election day that anybody or any organization can tally the votes. Did he break the law? YES or NO? If the answeris YES, which law, section and provision? If the answer is NO, Should we take your word or NEC chairman's word? (a) Good. Tthat means there is no need to block people from questioning legitimacy of the presidential results. Your statement in (b) holds. (c) You should not have a narrow thinking, for example you are just thinking about Tanzania and not comparing your case with the rest of the democratic world. That actually has answered the question I wanted to ask. So, it is all about power retention at all cost. No more comment.
iArmaniAdamson said:
that was your assumption, you said thousandsof corrupt officials, and I disagree. I am not sure if i followed your exampleabout Malaysia. you can elaborate more, certainly i wont call anyone a liar, Ihave my doubts and reservations
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I didn't say 2000....that was your assumption. About Malaysia, I do look at the big picture and anything I say, I try as much to compare with the best practice around the world. Your theory of corruption vs development is not true in the Malaysian case. If you think it is true, prove it.
iArmaniAdamson said:
i dont know, i cant follow the logicyou are trying to explain, but these people were breaking the law. whether theyhad good intention if its beyond breaking the law then you dont have argumentbefore the law, you are a criminal
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You said they were arrested for 'illegal counting of votes'. I am saying they were not arrested for that because they didn't count votes, instead they tallied votes. They were not arrested for tallying votes either. Am I wrong? YES or NO. If your answer is YES, tell me what they were arrested for......
iArmaniAdamson said:
well, a feedback is feedback, whethernegative or positive but i can assure you they wont say one thing about thatelection based on their activities and records, rest assured.
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Can you prove that beyond reasonable doubt? YES or NO?
iArmaniAdamson said:
youcompletely missed my point here, Sonko was saying oppositions were not allowed to rally, and I said, that is not true because we have seen oppositions rallying so many times before
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I didn't miss any point....If you've seen them rallying before, does that negate the FACT that they've been disallowed the opportunity to rally this time around?... What you believe is not important, facts are......
 
Everybody knows that we have problems in our electoral process. So, someone who is denying existence of such problems may be less informed or has poor understanding.

If someone thinks that NEC has done a great job and that the Tanzania's election was credible, that person must be having mental problems.

We have a crisis in Zanzibar where CCM is used to winning and now things have changed.

Overall the election was neither free nor fair. PERIOD.
Jack Daniel's iArmaniAdamson
 
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Jack Daniel's said:
Well, that link was posted by JF Administration. They don't post unverified reports. That is what I have, can you share with us what you have to prove me wrong?.......
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Well, we live in the age of technology, I prefer getting numbers directly from the source. this is the link i use to verify the votes, from NEC website:

Official report Link from NEC: http://www.nec.go.tz/uploads/files/URAIS matokeo .pdf

It's good you brought that up, there are election laws and there is law enforcement law. If you remember Judg. Lubuva did tell UKAWA supporters they can guard their votes 200 m from the polling station, immediately after the police released a statement warning people NOT to guard their votes.

NEC does not have law enforcingpowers, The police have. The people arrested were acting on Election ACTS laws which authorises The police to enforce certain offenses.

SO, I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR now.


As it stands NO ONE CAN QUESTION the legitimacy of presidential results! whether other people are allowed to do in other parts of the world, it is up to them, in TZ it is not allowed.

It has nothing to do with narrow thinking, you can think as broadly as you want but in TZ things are run according to TZ law, you will be mistakenly and might end up in trouble if live in TZ and argue in a court of law by Dubai or US laws.


That actually has answered the question I wanted to ask. So, it is all about power retention at all cost. No more comment.
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some will say that but you need to remember no situation stays permanent, one day things will change.

no, you didnt say 2000, i was try to explain simple maths based on YOUR assumption.

I dont know much about corruption scale in Malaysia, but I can talk about other countries i have lived in.

I have explained this several times, refer to the second paragraph of my response on this post.


Can you prove that beyond reasonable doubt? YES or NO?
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not beyond reasonable doubt of course, to do that I will have to hold court session. this is my personal opinion that LHRC clearly decided to side with UKAWA supporters, you could see from the beginning they were sympathizing with the opposition.

I didn't miss any point....If you've seen them rallying before, does that negate the FACT that they've been disallowed the opportunity to rally this time around?...
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No thats not what i wanted to point at, my point was IN FACT was that, many opposition supporters tend to exaggerate things, Sonko Jr came here and said, the gov never allowed opposition to rally, that is BLATANT lie.


What you believe is not important, facts are......
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If you think IN FACT that (the then Hon. Magufuli) acted based on his selfish or personal interest, you are welcome to be my guest and provide full evidence on how you can to that conclusion.
 

RED: That is not information from NEC's website, that is a writting by Elias Malima.

VIOLET: You didn't understand. Now, go back and take a look at your post #514, Eighth quote, statement (c), and my post #516, third quote, (c).......

LIME: At my post #516, Forth quote, I was dealing with FACTS not HOPE....

ORANGE: You are adapting your case as we go along. At your post #509, third quote, you said 'they are not more than 20'. At my post #511, third quote, I used the word "thousands"...it could be 10,000 or 300,000 or 999,0000 and that we are loosing Trillions. What is your basis of assuming (at Post #513, Forth quote) that they are 2000?.

TURQUOISE: You don't need to live in a country to talk about it.

BLUE: Can you show us where (which post or quote) he said 'gov never allowed opposition to rally'.

INDIGO: You have to look at the previous pages (beginning page 5) of this thread


Tell us which law, section and provision prohibits people from tallying votes......Please provide this info....
 
How old are you? and what is the level of your education?
 
Maziku Masunga Jr. said:
I maintain a reasonable assumptions would be very interesting to look at. Most punditry, however, is concerned with trying to model future elections outcomes rather than critically examining the failings of the current system.
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The good thing is that every reasonable person understands the failings of the current system although there are always some empty headed people with crippled thoughts who don't get it. Unless important changes take place, we'll never have credible elections.
 
iArmaniAdamson said:
since you like answering questions by asking questions, how old are you and what is the level of your education?
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How old are you 'sir'? Because we've had enough kids in this forum.

What is your educational level? Because you have very poor integrated reasoning capacity.
 
 

Hahahahaa heh heh heh hahaa.... let me loughooooo (In Nigerian Voice)...Hey sir, just answer this last one.....Tell us which law, section and provision prohibits people from tallying votes......Kindly provide this information....no need to open a new thread, you can just tell us.......

cc: yero
 
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do you know these are serious allegations? are you accusing Hon Magufuli of misusing public funds for selfish and personal gain? those allegations amount to corruption, racketeering and graft. will you be available to testify?
 
iArmaniAdamson said:
do you know these are serious allegations? are you accusing Hon Magufuli of misusing public funds for selfish and personal gain? those allegations amount to corruption, racketeering and graft. will you be available to testify?
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Kindly answer my Question in post #528...........

To answer your questions...... Yes I know, I have accused him for months, Yes I will be available to testify in that 'Special court for graft cases' that he promised during his election campaigns......

Now, answer my question in post #528............PLEASE
 
iArmaniAdamson said:
do you know these are serious allegations? are you accusing Hon Magufuli of misusing public funds for selfish and personal gain? those allegations amount to corruption, racketeering and graft. will you be available to testify?
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But question was different 'sir', According to Jack Daniel's ,You were supposed to tell us which law, section and provision prohibits people from tallying votes. I believe you saw the question.

my thinking capacity is way above your thinking capacity, (which by the way dictates you to answer questions by asking even more question).
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This explains why I asked how old you are and your level of education (something to do with your integrated reasoning capacity).
 
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