Tutaachana lini na lugha ya kiingereza?

Tutaachana lini na lugha ya kiingereza?

Hapo ndipo "Miafrika Ndivyo Tulivyo" comes into play.

Kwa nini hatuna textbooks zetu wenyewe? Si tunajidai tuna akili sana....sasa nini kinachotushinda?

Waingereza wako juu sana. Nani anabisha?

Sasa unaposema miafrika yote ndivyo tulivyo una maana ktk kundi hilo la miafrika, wewe pia umo...lakini kumbuka sisi wengine hatumo. Nyakati za kujidharau sasa zimekwisha...the new world order is not compatible with this...

Halafu unaposema waingereza wako juu sana, huko juu ni wapi? Halafu neno waingereza linahitaji ufafanuzi. Ukienda uingereza saa hizi utawaona watu wanaoonekana kama waarabu, wapakistani, wahindi, wabantu, wabongo na watu weupe ambao sisi hupenda uwaita wazungu...lakini wote hawa ni waingereza na si wote wanajua kiingeraza. Mitaa ya London utasikia lugha mbalimbali na tamaduni mbalimbali. Kwa hiyo unasema wote hawa wako juu? Wapi juu? Hicho kiswahili unachokidharau, wenzio huko uingereza na mahali pengine (Japan, China, Ujerumani, Scandinavia, Marekani nk) wanakimezea mate kwa sababu ya utamu wake. Halafu Rais wa Gabon alipomwomba JK ampelekee mwalimu wa kiswahili ili ajifunze kiswahili unadhani ni mambo ya mzaha...unayo dhahabu na unaidharau jamani. Yaani hata wewe askarikanzu unamuunga mkono jamaa huyu!
 
Sasa unaposema miafrika yote ndivyo tulivyo una maana ktk kundi hilo la miafrika, wewe pia umo...lakini kumbuka sisi wengine hatumo. Nyakati za kujidharau sasa zimekwisha...the new world order is not compatible with this...

Yaani hata wewe askarikanzu unamuunga mkono jamaa huyu!
Mkuu huyu Nyani Ngabu ni mbeba box flani ambaye wakati mwingi inabidi umsome katikati ya mistari (read between the lines) ili umuelewe. Sidhani kama amemaanisha hicho alichoandika hapo. Labda nimekosea, lakini nilivyomwelewa hapo Ngabu ameandika kwa kutumia kejeli, unaa (irony) zaidi!
 
English is the lingua franca of the world. We need english more than it needs us. If u cant beat them just join them and beggars are not choosers. International business and politics,as well as relations are all influenced by english language so let us take bitter pills.
 
Usemayo si kweli kabisaa. Kwa mfano kuna mataifa kibao ya ulaya ambayo hayatumii kiingereza kama lugha ya kwanza na bado yameendelea. Wadenish, wafaransa, wajerumani, wafinish, waspenish n.k. Vile vile ukiangalia wachina, wajapan hata wakorea kiingereza chao ni taabu sana lakini wameendelea. Hii kasumba ya kuabudu kiingereza ni kwa sababu tulitawaliwa na hao kwa hiyo bado haijatutoka. Sawa, ufahamu wa kiingereza ni vizuri lakini kusema eti kama hujui kiingereza chimba shimo jifukie, hapo unavuka mipaka!

1. Hizo Nchi ulizozitaja ama zipo Dunia ya kwanza au ya pili na bado pamoja na kutumia lugha zao lakini wanatumia na Kiingereza, sembuse sie tulio mwisho wa Dunia ama Dunia ya tatu au ya nne ndio tujifanye jeuri?

2. Sisi wenyewe bado kiswahili kinatupiga chenga ya kisigino, na kibaya zaidi, hao wasiojua sawa sawa Kiswahili ndio walijaa kwenye fani za ualimu na utangazaji.

3. Bado kiswahili hakijajitosheleza kwa maneno na majina mengi ya vitu.

4....

Tusifanye haraka kukikataa Kiingereza, ikifikia muda wake muafaka, kitazimika chenyewe.
 
Mkuu huyu Nyani Ngabu ni mbeba box flani ambaye wakati mwingi inabidi umsome katikati ya mistari (read between the lines) ili umuelewe. Sidhani kama amemaanisha hicho alichoandika hapo. Labda nimekosea, lakini nilivyomwelewa hapo Ngabu ameandika kwa kutumia kejeli, unaa (irony) zaidi!

Asante mkuu. Kama ndiyo ilivyo basi hasira zangu zimeyeyuka. Halafu naomba ndugu Nyani Ngabu anisamehe kwa kilichonitoka mdomoni...jamani dunia hii!
 
Kumbe unajua sisi maskini, kwa hiyo unataka tuwe maskini jeuri ati?. Hii kasumba ya kusema eti kuna wadanish, waswedish, wajeruman e.t.c hawajui kiingereza nani kakudanganya?. Hata kama wana lugha yao, kiingereza wanakijua sana tu, wala huwezi fananisha na level ya watanzania wengi. Hata wachina wengi ambao hawajui kitu ndio hao wanakuja kuuza karanga Kariakoo. Wachunguze wanaofanya kazi kwenye mapampuni na mashirika ya kimataifa kama hawakijui kiingereza. Kwa kifupi tu kwa karne hii ya Utandawazi kiingereza ndio kinakua na kupata nguvu zaidi. Karne hii English ndio lugha mama zingine ni mbwembwe tu za kupamba CV na kukupa nafasi kubwa zaidi ya kupata kazi. Kiingereza hakikwepeki, ukikwepa lako jembe LOL!

Hizo sentensi mbili za mwisho ni kama zinanichefua vile. Halafu mwonekano wake naye huyu! Ujue kwamba hiyo lugha ya kiingereza si lugha yako mama. Nithibitishie basi kwa kuniandikia angalau aya mbili tu kwa lugha hiyo. Halafu pia niandikie aya mbili nyingine kwa lugha ya kiswahili...Tunachosema wenzio ni hiki: Mudu lugha yako na uitumie katika ukamilifu wake wote, halafu wakati huohuo jibidiishe na lugha kadhaa za wenzio, ikiwa ni pamoja na kiingereza. Halafu pia nakushauri usafiri nje kidogo--nenda uingereza, uchina, scandinavia, na uingereza, kwa mfano. Ukiwa huko, usijihangaishe ktk kushangaa vinavyoonekana tu, pia chunguza sera zao na mijadala yao kuhusu lugha zilizomo nchini mwao. Chunguza hasa sera zinazohusu lugha za kufundishia na kujifunzia---utakaporudi kwenye jukwaa hili ninauhakika utaelewa vizuri tunachojadili. Kwa kifupi, lugha ni moyo wa elimu. Ukicheza na lugha, unacheza na elimu.
 
Awali ya yote napenda kuwasalimuni ninyi nyote katika jukwaa hili.

Lugha ya kiingereza ni ngumu kwa wengi wetu lakini bado serikali inasisitiza kwamba iendelee kutumika mashuleni na vyuoni kama lugha ya kufundishia. Wakati huohuo lugha ya Kiswahili imekukuwa/kuzwa na kufikia kiwango ambacho kinafaa na kutosha kutumika mashuleni na vyuoni kama lugha ya kufundishia. Kwa nini tusiachane na kiingereza na badala yake tutumie Kiswahili chetu ktk taasisi zetu za elimu? Kwa nini lugha ya kiingereza isibaki tu kama somo la kawaida mashuleni na vyuoni? Maoni yenu tafadhali.

Shukrani za awali.

Then wakenya na waganda wakichukua ajira zenu kwaajili ya lugha msilalamike. Kama tayari unajua kiswahili then ni kwa nini usite kujifunza lugha nyingine? Umaimuna huu ndio unaturudisha nyuma. Mkisusa wenzenu wanakula!
 
Then wakenya na waganda wakichukua ajira zenu kwaajili ya lugha msilalamike. Kama tayari unajua kiswahili then ni kwa nini usite kujifunza lugha nyingine? Umaimuna huu ndio unaturudisha nyuma. Mkisusa wenzenu wanakula!

Mjadala umefika mbali sana kuliko hapo ulipo wewe. Soma mjadala mzima halafu utoe maoni yako, maana inavyoonekana, umekurupuka tu. Halafu huo umaimuna unaouzungumzia sijui una uhusiano gani na busara zilizomo kwenye mjadala huu. Nakushauri utafute mkeka ujipumzishe...halafu urudi tena kwenye jukwaa letu na mawazo mapya.
 
English is the lingua franca of the world. We need english more than it needs us. If u cant beat them just join them and beggars are not choosers. International business and politics,as well as relations are all influenced by english language so let us take bitter pills.

Your rather unclear argument is: "If u cant beat them just join them and beggars are not choosers". What does "them" represent? Why should it be that it's you and only you who should either beat or join them? What about them joining you? Which social position do you put yourself in between you and 'them'--higher, lower, equal?

You continue: "beggars are not choosers". Are you a beggar? Begging from whom and why? Is your mind truly free from psychological slavery? How much do you trust yourself as a person from whom others can beg? Why aren't you ready to develop your kiswahili into an international language of trade and commerce? Do you think the English you're so proud of just emerged from nowhere? Vinavyoelea vimeundwa nawe hunabudi kuunda kilicho chako ili nacho kielee. And remember: no one has told you to quit English or any other european language. Sorry for being such a rough contributor! The aim, however, is to let you think about these issues from another perspective and do so more critically.
 
Some food for thought


It is silly how so many African countries speak a European language instead of their native language. The only country that speaks their language is Tanzania which is KiSwahili. I think that since most African countries speak European languages, we might as well switch to a common African language. My guess would be KiSwahili since it is the most widely spoken. YES English is important to learn and we can learn it but our official languages should be KiSwahili. The Arabs have Arabs, us Africans should have KiSwahili.

Do you think this is true? What can we do about it?

Toka kwenye Nairaland

Waafrika ni wagumu sana kukubaliana. Haya mawazo yalishatolewa na akina Nyerere na Nkrumah tangu wakati wa uhuru lakini hakuna aliyetaka kuyafuata.

NB: Tatizo sisi wenyewe tunaosifiwa kuwa na lugha kubwa Afrika nzima bado tunajiona duni na kujidharau. Hadi hii leo, miaka 50 baada ya uhuru bado tuna kasumba ya kuona kujua Kiingereza ni sawa na kuwa mwerevu. Huko Uingereza hata mtoto wa chekechea anaongea Kiingereza. Kwa hiyo tumwone huyo mtoto katuzidi akili kwa sababu anakimudu Kiingereza, siyo?

Iko hadithi ya Waziri flani wa kutoka Pakistan alitembelea London na akaona hata mwendesha taxi na mfagiaji hotelini kwake anaongea Kiingereza sanifu. Aliporudi Pakistan yule Waziri alitoa mshangao wake kwa kusema "Uingereza wameendela sana, hata waendesha taxi na wafagiaji mahotelini wanazungumza Kiingereza cha hali ya juu". Duhu!
 
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Some food for thought


It is silly how so many African countries speak a European language instead of their native language. The only country that speaks their language is Tanzania which is KiSwahili. I think that since most African countries speak European languages, we might as well switch to a common African language. My guess would be KiSwahili since it is the most widely spoken. YES English is important to learn and we can learn it but our official languages should be KiSwahili. The Arabs have Arabs, us Africans should have KiSwahili.

Do you think this is true? What can we do about it?

Toka kwenye Nairaland

Waafrika ni wagumu sana kukubaliana. Haya mawazo yalishatolewa na akina Nyerere na Nkrumah tangu wakati wa uhuru lakini hakuna aliyetaka kuyafuata.

NB: Tatizo sisi wenyewe tunaosifiwa kuwa na lugha kubwa Afrika nzima bado tunajiona duni na kujidharau. Hadi hii leo, miaka 50 baada ya uhuru bado tuna kasumba ya kuona kujua Kiingereza ni sawa na kuwa mwerevu. Huko Uingereza hata mtoto wa chekechea anaongea Kiingereza. Kwa hiyo tumwone huyo mtoto katuzidi akili kwa sababu anakimudu Kiingereza, siyo?

Iko hadithi ya Waziri flani wa kutoka Pakistan alitembelea London na akaona hata mwendesha taxi na mfagiaji hotelini kwake anaongea Kiingereza sanifu. Aliporudi Pakistan yule Waziri alitoa mshangao wake kwa kusema "Uingereza wameendela sana, hata waendesha taxi na wafagiaji mahotelini wanazungumza Kiingereza cha hali ya juu". Duhu!


Asante Askari Kanzu! Nimemsikia huyo jamaa kwenye video anavyobabaika. Inaelekea kwa sehemu kubwa hajitambui jinsi alivyotawaliwa kisaikolojia...Hiyo dhana kwamba ukijua lugha ya kiingereza basi umeendelea, kama unavyosema, si ngeni hata hapa nchini. Watu wanaoamini hivyo hupata kigugumizi cha nguvu ukiwaambia kuwa maendeleo hutokea hata kwa kukijua vizuri kimakonde na kukitumia ipasavyo....
 
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Historia inabainisha wazi tulipata uhuru wa bendera,hasa baada ya marekani kuwasihi wazungu waache aina ya ukoloni waliokua wanatumia bali waanzishe aina mpya ya ukoloni[neo-colonialis)
aina hii ina faida nyingi kuliko hasara na walidai aina ile ya ukoloni imepitwa na wakati,kwanza hakuna gharama ya kuweka viongozi kwenye koloni(wanajisimamia wenyewe) pia hakuna tena malalamiko ya tunatawaliwa..tunataka uhuru..
Katika kuanzisha aina mpya ya ukoloni,ndipo tukajengewa misingi ya kuwa tegemezi,kuanzia uchumi hadi lugha, na hii ilifanikiwa nchi nyingi sana,kwa mtindo wa kujifanya waliokuwa wakoloni wetu baada ya uhuru ni kaka au dada au baba yetu,kwahiyo inatubidi tuwasikilize wanalotaka.
Kwahiyo ndugu ni ukoloni mambo leo unaotusumbua,na tatizo kubwa ni utegemezi wa kiuchumi ambapo tunakopeshwa hadi madeni kutuzidi na wazungu wanaamua kutusamehe lakini kwa masharti kama hayo ya kutumia lugha zao,sasa ukiacha kufuata masharti yao ujue utawarudishia fedha zao ulizokopa na haukopeshwi tena,hii kitu ata mwalimu Nyerere ilimpa shida sana,sembuse hawa makanjanja.
Ni hayo tu
kanyigo.
 
anayetamani kukiacha kingeleza na akiache mi ndo kwanza najifunza
 
anayetamani kukiacha kingeleza na akiache mi ndo kwanza najifunza

Wewe baba mweupe (Whiteman), mjadala huu umefikia hatua ambapo tunasema hivi: Jifunze lugha yako, uielewe vizuri na uitumie kikamilifu ktk shughuli zinazohusiana na ujenzi na uendelezaji wa misingi ya kimaendeleo (k.m ktk elimu) na wakati huohuo jifunze kiingereza au lugha nyingine za kigeni kwa bidii zako zote kwani unahitaji sana lugha hizo pia (si kiingereza peke yake). Tupo pamoja sasa?
 
Your rather unclear argument is: "If u cant beat them just join them and beggars are not choosers". What does "them" represent? Why should it be that it's you and only you who should either beat or join them? What about them joining you? Which social position do you put yourself in between you and 'them'--higher, lower, equal?

You continue: "beggars are not choosers". Are you a beggar? Begging from whom and why? Is your mind truly free from psychological slavery? How much do you trust yourself as a person from whom others can beg? Why aren't you ready to develop your kiswahili into an international language of trade and commerce? Do you think the English you're so proud of just emerged from nowhere? Vinavyoelea vimeundwa nawe hunabudi kuunda kilicho chako ili nacho kielee. And remember: no one has told you to quit English or any other european language. Sorry for being such a rough contributor! The aim, however, is to let you think about these issues from another perspective and do so more critically.
You cant take it just leave it folk! Also u cant change the world let the world change you! Congrats for being a smooth contributor basing on malice aforethought!!
 
Lugha is more than verbs, nouns.pronouns.Its more than simple sentence and compound sentece. Language is vehicle of human experience. Achebe says can English carry the full weight of African experience? If yes then we are well advised to stick to English. English is universal the Gold standard so to speak.
 
1. Hizo Nchi ulizozitaja ama zipo Dunia ya kwanza au ya pili na bado pamoja na kutumia lugha zao lakini wanatumia na Kiingereza, sembuse sie tulio mwisho wa Dunia ama Dunia ya tatu au ya nne ndio tujifanye jeuri?

2. Sisi wenyewe bado kiswahili kinatupiga chenga ya kisigino, na kibaya zaidi, hao wasiojua sawa sawa Kiswahili ndio walijaa kwenye fani za ualimu na utangazaji.

3. Bado kiswahili hakijajitosheleza kwa maneno na majina mengi ya vitu.

4....

Tusifanye haraka kukikataa Kiingereza, ikifikia muda wake muafaka, kitazimika chenyewe.[/QUOTE]

Ndugu yangu! Kwanza usijiweke kwenye nafasi ya chini kiasi hicho kwamba wewe ni wa dunia ya tatu au nne. Kiuhalisia, hakuna dunia ya kwanza, pili, tatu, au nne. Watu walioigawa dunia kinadharia wakati huo (ambao ni wasomi wa ulaya na marekani) walikuwa na ajenda yao ambayo hadi sasa wanayo nayo ni "divide the world and rule it". Wanajua kisaikolojia kwamba ukimwambia mtu asiye makini ktk kufikiri kwake kwamba yeye ni wa ngazi fulani ya chini na akaamini basi tayari umempata--utamtawala na atatawalika. Hiyo ndiyo mbinu iliyotumika Rwanda (umeona matokeo yake), ilitumika Afrika ya Kusini (uliona taabu yake), ilitumika kwetu Tanzania (weupe juu, wahindi katikati, mmatumbi chini).

Kuhusiana na hilo, saikolojia yake ni nyepesi tu: ukijiweka juu na wakakuona kama uko juu unapata mamlaka ya kuwapangia matabaka wale wanaodhani upo juu nao chini, na watayakubali matabaka yale. Wakishakubali watajiweka ktk nafasi ambayo inaendana na matabaka ambayo wanadhani wamo na hiyo itawaathiri akilini mwao. Watauona ulimwengu (mind set) kwa namna hiyo ya kitabaka nawe utapata fursa nzuri sana ya kuwatawala maana wanakuona unastahili (upo juu) na wapo tayari kukusikiliza na kukutegemea. Kwa hiyo ugawaji wa dunia katika matabaka unachangia ktk mradi wetu uleule--kujenga "New World Order" na kuutawala mfumo huo. Kwa hiyo, unapotumia maneno hayo (first, second, third country au sijui developed and developing or poor contries) ujue what is behind such categorisation. There is a lot more about this so please find it and wake up mentally (zinduka)!


Pili, kwa mawazo yaliyopo sasa ambayo wadau wamechangia, tusikatae kabisakabisa kiingereza kwani tunakihitaji halafu pia tunahitaji lugha nyingine za nje kwa ajili ya maendeleo yetu binafsi na kitaifa. Tunachotakiwa kukataa ni matumizi ya lugha ya kiingereza kama lugha ya kufundishia na kujifunzia. Kwa sababu kwanza si lugha inayotutambulisha sisi duniani (lugha ni sehemu muhimu sana ya utambulisho wa nchi na watu wake (national identity). Pili, kwa mazingira ya sasa nchini mwetu, mtoto hawezi kumudu lugha ya kiingereza kiasi cha kuitumia kama lugha ya fikra, ubunifu, na hata mawasiliano. Kuna vikwazo vingi vinavyomzuia mtoto huyu kufikia kiwango hicho cha lugha...tunazijua sote kwa hiyo hakuna haja ya kuziorodhesha hapa. Matokeo yake unayaona...huna haja ya kuchunguza sana ili ujue ni kiasi gani watu wetu wameathirika kutokana na mapungufu ya elimu na fikra ambayo, kwa sehemu kubwa, yanachangiwa na ubovu wa sera ya lugha ya kufundishia...

Tatu, ujue vizuri kwamba Kiswahili kimeendelezwa na kimefikia kiwango cha kutosha kabisa kwa matumizi mbalimbali, ikwa ni pamoja na kuitumia kwa tafiti za kisayansi, kiteknolojia na biashara na pia ktk kufundishia toka shule za awali hadi vyuo vikuu. Watembelee Taasisi ya Taaluma za Kiswahili (TATAKI) pale Chuo Kikuu cha Dar es Salaam na utaona maajabu. Kinachokosekana, pamoja na mambo mengine, ni utashi wa kisiasa (political will). There is also lack of seriousness on the part of our Government...sijui wana agenda gani ya siri kuhusiana na elimu ya Tanzania...
 
You cant take it just leave it folk! Also u cant change the world let the world change you! Congrats for being a smooth contributor basing on malice aforethought!!

What a mindset! So this is your other perspective: that you can't change the world and all you can do is let the world change you? Are you such a passive being? What do you mean by "the world"? Do you mean this current order in which the south is dependent on the north? And you think this can not be changed just because it has been shaped by what look to you as demi-gods (the folk in the north)?

I want you to trust yourself as a person, with excellent qualities and capabilities, and who can shape the world just like others in the north do. There is no malice here. If you depend on Britain today, Britain should depend on you tomorrow...and it all depends on you...just look inside you and see how powerful you are in terms of your mental qualities and capabilities---then develop them as much as you can using the language you know best---this is the way to mental liberation.
 
Lugha is more than verbs, nouns.pronouns.Its more than simple sentence and compound sentece. Language is vehicle of human experience. Achebe says can English carry the full weight of African experience? If yes then we are well advised to stick to English. English is universal the Gold standard so to speak.
The views of Chinua Achebe do not represent the Alpha and the Omega on this issue. In fact many other African writers offer divergent views on the matter, i.e, including Ngugi wa Thiong'o, who once elaborated his thesis in his publication Decolonizing the Mind: The politics of language in African literature (1986). No one argues that English is not important, it is, but not at the cost of forsaking the mother tongue!

Kwa mfano, hapa tunajadili umuhimu wa lugha ya Kiswahili na mimi ninatumia Kiingereza kujieleza. Lakini pindi niandikapo kwa Kiswahili ninajisikia mtu huru na mwenye kujiamini zaidi. Hapo ndio umuhimu wa kujisifia na lugha asilia unapokuja.
 
What a mindset! So this is your other perspective: that you can't change the world and all you can do is let the world change you? Are you such a passive being? What do you mean by "the world"? Do you mean this current order in which the south is dependent on the north? And you think this can not be changed just because it has been shaped by what look to you as demi-gods (the folk in the north)?

I want you to trust yourself as a person, with excellent qualities and capabilities, and who can shape the world just like others in the north do. There is no malice here. If you depend on Britain today, Britain should depend on you tomorrow...and it all depends on you...just look inside you and see how powerful you are in terms of your mental qualities and capabilities---then develop them as much as you can using the language you know best---this is the way to mental liberation.
You want me to trust myself?? What a joke pal? Its not obligatory to agree with me.....let us agree to disagree over this!
 
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