Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar

Mzee Mwanakijiji · Mar 12, 2013

nkungu said:
For the sake of harmony in our up to now peaceful nation we need to reach a compromise.
Let us concentrate on the future and our well being.

You can not compromise with a lie. A lie need to be exposed and defeated by the expounding of truth. Truth stand uncompromised. So far we have been able to establish unambiguously that Mr. Said's assertions and claims in various of his writings are pure fabrications of his mind. He uses historical settings, people, incidents and characters to recreate historical narrative using Islam as a binding glue. Unfortunately, this narrative has been shown to be without merit, prejudicial and in fact unhistorical.

Once, this truth is accessed by many (evidently not all have the same intellectual abilities and freedom to do so) then as a people we can sit down and decide what course we should take as a nation. We can not take a certain course of action under duress.

Ngongo · Mar 12, 2013

Mpaka sasa wazee wa Kariako chaliii.

Ritz · Mar 12, 2013

Mundungus Fletcher said:
Mwandishi aliyeandika makala uliyo iweka
ni personal opinion yake. Alichoandika si facts.

Sawa sawa na makala aliyoleta jasusi hapa ya nani kama nyerere iliyoandikwa kwenye same newspaper.

History ya Nyerere ipo, story za nyerere zipo, video zake zipo, audio za hotuba zake zipo, facts kuhusu yeye pia zipo. So ni swala la msomaji na mtu mwenyewe kufanya upembuzi yakinifu, kumchambua na hatimae kujiridhisha yeye mwenyewe Nyerere anamchukiliaje.

Ila kwa kusoma makala moja, na kumsikiliza mtu moja kukuambia kuhusu nyerere na hapo hapo ukafikia tamati na Kumlabel nyerere unavyotaka wewe (kama ni shujaa au mdhulmati) basi utakuwa humtendei haki.

Mimi sio mtaalamu wa Historia, mimi pia sina upande katika mjadala huu, kwasababu sio mtaalamu wa historia, hivyo kuwa na upande itakuwa nasukumwa na hisia zaidi. Kwasababu Mzee Saidi akinipa nondo zake ntajuaje kama hizi ni za ukweli au za uongo.. Sina utalaamu.

Vivyo hivyo Mzee MM, nguruvi3 na mg3 bila ya kumsahau Jasusi wakitoa nondo zao mimi ntajuaje kama hizi ni za ukweli au za uongo.

Ila mimi na tatizo na ukweli wa swala linalo itwa "dhulma" kwa waislamu.

Ingawa si mtaalaamu na sijabobea katika historia, lakini najua kutambua kama sehemu ina makosa. Hasa linapokuwa linahusu vitu vinavyoweza kuwa prove bila ya kutumia historia.

Huu mnakasha ni mrefu sana, vivyo nina uhakika ni watu wachache sana ambao wameufutalia neno kwa neno kuanzia mwanzo mpaka mwisho.

Ila katika fuatilia yangu mimi, mwanzoni Mzee Said, alionekana kuwakimbiza sana wanao mpinga, na hasa walionekana wanampinga tu kutokana na hisia zao binafsi na walikuwa hawana facts na hawaijui historia vizuri.

Kama umefuatilia vizuri hata wale Pro Mzee Said arguments,(zomba,Ritz, etc) walikuwa wapo kasi sana mwanzoni lakini sasa hivi wamepunguza spidi hata wao wenywe wamepungua (inawezekana pia majuku yamewashika)..

Vivyo hivyo kwa Anti-mzee Said au Pro -Yericko arguments, walikuwa hawana nguvu kabisa mwanzoni lakini sasa naona wameshika kwenye makali, na wako full force.

Kwanini

Na kuna sehemu moja ambayo pamekuwa moto ambapo Anti-Mzee Said, wamepashikilia.

WARSHA's Research

Hizi data zilitumiwa sana humu kwenye mnakasha, na hata kwenye mijadala mengine humu JF na kwenye mitandao mengine, data zilitumiwa kama scientific proof au Tangible truth dhidi ya "dhulma" kwa waislamu. Hizi data zilishika makali na zikakata kata.

Wakaja watu humu Anti-Mzee Said argument wakaleta na wao tangible proof kuonesha highly inaccuracy ya ile Research, the whole methodology wameonesha ina uwalakin, wameelezea kwa kirefu sihiitaji kuingia kiundani.

Hapo is where i come in. Mimi nikaja kumuuliza Mzee Said apinge na adispute (KITAALAMU) claims za kambi pinzani na kudhibitisha ile Research haiko inaccurate na haiwezi kutumiwa kama ushahidi wa kitaalamu wa dhulma dhidi ya waislamu.

Hakuna aliyekuja mpaka sasa hivi, sio Mzee Said wala Ritz, wala wewe Ami wala mtu yoyote.

Sasa wewe ukaja na kuanza kutoa sababu zakitoto kwnye maswala ya kitaalamu. Ukaanza kusema makosa ni ubinadamu, Mzee Said ni binadamu. Inawezekana this, inawezekana that.... Maelezo mengi ya kuexcuse kitu kilichofanyika hapa.

Watu wengi wakaja wakaeleza ni vipi tofauti ya makosa ya kiuandishi na factual errors. Na kwanini wanasema hii ni factual error na hivyo hii Research iko null and void, haiwezi kutumika tena kama kigezo na kielezo cha dhulma dhidi ya waislamu.

Nakama mtu anajua ukweli huu na bado anataka kuitumia Research hii kuaminisha watu wengi ambao anajua kabisa hawajui au hawezi kujua kama i
Zile data sio sawa huyo ni MCHOCHEZI period.

Na mimi naongeze kusema, Mzee Said, ni msomi tena msomi sana, wasifu wake wenyewe mmeuona hapa.

Yeye na watu waliofanya hii Research inaonekana ni watu waliokuwa wanajua kabisa kitu walichokuwa wanafanya. Inawezekana kweli wana VALID madai, au Madai Halal, lakini kutumia njia zisizo halal kudhibitisha madai yako si uungwana. Huku hakuna tofauti na uchakachuaji.

Ni sawa wakristu nao wachukue data za chuo Huko Zanzibar na kuzitumia kama kielezo cha kusema kuwa kweli waislamu hawadhulumiwi Tanzania.

Na hapo ndo lile swala la credibility nililolisema linapokuja...

Kama Research tu ina uwalakin? Kitu ambacho can be proven wrong... Vipi kuhusu reference nyingine ambazo haziwezi kudhibitishwa????

So nadhani hapo mimi ndo naposimamia. Sitaki kusema tuache kuzungumzuia Dai kuu, ila lipo na tunataka kulidhibitisha tulete ushahidi wa kihalali ma hata vijana wadogo wakislamu wajiridhishe kweli tunaonewa na kudhulumiwa au kuna tatizo somewhere...

Mundungus Fletcher,

Kuwa wazi tu upande unao mtu akikosoma tu anajua fikra zako hakuna ubaya wewe kuwa na upende ni haki yako unajitahidi kubalance maandiko yako lakini watu makini tumekosoma.

Umesema wewe siyo mtaalamu wa histori lakini hapo hapo unasema huoni dhulma wanaofanyiwa Waislam.

Hayo maneno yako tu wala hayaitaji elimu ya chuo kikuu kutambua wewe upo upande gani.

Mimi kutokuonekana humu jamvini kwanza nilipewa ban na nikawa nimebanwa na kazi pia.

Ritz · Mar 12, 2013

Ngongo said:
Mpaka sasa wazee wa Kariako chaliii.

Mkuu Ngongo,

Kumbe kulikuwa mashindano na mshindi kapitakana tayari.

mshikachuma · Mar 12, 2013

Mohamed Said said:
BD,

Sheikh Nurdin Hussein wanae ni marafiki zangu.

Zamani nikenda Mombasa nilikuwa nafika hadi
kwa dada yake Bi Amina kumsalimia.

Nimefika hadi nyumbani kwa sheikh Kilwa...
Niachie hapa au niendelee?

Ha ha haaaa! Nimefurahi sana....haya mzee wetu endelea kutupa wasifu wake kwa faida ya wote. Pale utakapokosea kijana wake niko hapa nitarekebisha kwa faida ya wote. Tupe darsa mzee.....

Isalia · Mar 12, 2013

Ngongo said:
Mpaka sasa wazee wa Kariako chaliii.

hakika wewe ni mwehu unazungumza usichokijua

Yericko Nyerere · Mar 12, 2013

Mohamed Said said:
Mag,

Kupinga hapa JF kutasaidia kitu gani bila kuwa na kitabu chenu maktaba
wanafunzi wa historia ya uhuru wakakisoma?

Hapana, kuandika kitabu si njia kuu na ya yamwisho ya kupinga upotoshaji wako,

Kitaalamu hapa tayari tumedhibiti sehemu ya uhaini wako kwataifa hili.

Ngongo · Mar 12, 2013

Mkuu wangu Ritz ukimsoma vizuri Mkuu Mag3 ukaweka kando unazi na ushabiki wa kidini huyu mheshimiwa kamaliza kila kitu Mzee wetu wa Kariako Mohamed Said kashindwa kwa kiwango kikubwa kutoa majibu tuliyotarajiwa angetupatia hasa ukizingatia yeye ni msomi wa kiwango cha juu lakini kaamua kuutumia usomi wake kuligawa taifa letu.Bahati nzuri Ritz unajua mimi sifungwi hata siku moja na minyororo ya dini.Mfano mzuri ni mbunge wangu wa Arusha Mheshimiwa Godbless Lema tunasali kanisa moja Askofu wetu mmoja tunaishi kata moja na kubwa zaidi napenda mabadiliko... lakini linapokuja la nchi naukosoa uwezo wake bila kuangalia huyu ni mkristo mwenzangu.Rais wa awamu ya tatu Benjamin Mkapa sikumbakiza nilikosoa uuzwaji wa nyumba za serekali kwakuwa nilijua serekali ingelazimika kuwaweka mahotelini maafisa wapya kwa gharama kubwa.Nlimkosoa alipouza mabank [NBC] kwa bei ya kutupa,nilimkosoa alipojiuzia Kiwira and .....sikuangalia dini yake nililitazama taifa linaloitwa Tanzania.

Mjadala huu unatufunza jambo kubwa sana.Tanzania ya leo si ile ya Nyerere imeganyika katika misingi ya ukanda,ukabila na udini ambao umeletwa na kukuzwa na watawala wetu baada ya kuiweka kando misingi iliyokuwepo mwanzo[Siasa ya ujamaa na kujitegemea & Miiko ya uongozi] hapawakutaka kutuwekea mbadala wa waliyoyafuta.Ukimsoma Mo utaona wazi anachokieleza na kikitetea kinatokana na misukumo ya dini yake akiulizwa maswali anayakwepa si kwamba hayaoni la hasha anayaona vizuri na anajua akiyajibu atapoteza jukwaa lake alilojichagulia [dini].

Mkuu wangu Ritz tazama michango ya zomba THE BIG SHOW mzee wa gesi ya Ntwara Boko haram sijui kama anajua madhara ya kundi la Boko haram kule Nigeria unabaki unajiuliza Tanzania ya miaka 10,20 itakuwaje ?.Nina amini hawa ndugu zangu wana akili nzuri wana uwezo wa kutambua baya na jema lakini hoja ikija mezani wanaangalia kwanza dini hoja ya msingi inawekwa kando hii ndiyo Tanzania tunayojivunia baada ya miaka 52 ya uhuru.

Mag3 said:
Mkuu Nguruvi3, wewe acha tu...huyu Mohamed Said yawezekana alifanya utafiti kweli lakini utafiti wenyewe ulijikita katika kuwatambua aina ya watu ambao angeweza kuelekeza ngano zake kwao na wao wakazimeza nzima nzima bila kufikiri, kuuliza wala kutafakari. Kuna wakati tulimpa fursa ya kujinasua mapema asije akaumbuka na kuhadhirika...nakumbuka sana nilivyomsihi achutame kwani anazidi kuanika utupu katika simulizi zake lakini hakunisikiliza.

Hatukukata tamaa na hivyo tukazidi kumuuliza hivi, je Mohamed kama ungepewa nafasi ya kuiandika kitabu chako upya, kuna marekebisho ungekuwa tayari kuyafanya? Kwa kibri isiyo kifani akatamba hawezi kufanya hivyo...kuwa yote aliyoandika ndiyo ukweli na UKWELI MTUPU, DUH!

Nakumbuka alivyodai, eti kulingana na maandishi ya John Iliffe, Kleist Sykes ndiye aliasisi AA mwaka 1929, tukamwambia hapana huyo alikuwa katibu tu, Raisi muasisi alikuwa Cecil Mtola, Myao, msomi na Mwalimu.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kulingana na utafiti wake kuwa mikutano ya kwanza wa AA ilikuwa ikifanyika nyumbani kwa Sykes nikamwambia, hapana wewe muongo, mkutano wa kwanza ulifanyika nyumbani kwa Cecil Matola kabla ya Gavana Cameron kutoa kiwanja na Headquarter ya AA kuhamia New Street mwaka 1931.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kuwa mwaka 1950, Tanganyika ilikuwa Mandate Territory, akaambiwa acha uongo, mwaka 1950 Tangayika ilikuwa bado Trust Territory.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kuwa Mwalimu Nyerere aliingizwa kwenye siasa mwaka 1953 alipotambulishwa kwa wazee wake Mohamed Said mjini Dar es Salaam, akaambiwa la hasha toka mwaka 1946 Mwalimu Nyerere tayari alikuwa kiongozi wa AA Tabora.

Nakumbuka alivyolalama baada ya kufanya utafiti wa miaka 15 na kudai kuwa kuwa kiongozi wa kwanza wa TAA alikuwa Abdulwahid Sykes, tukamwambia, no way, Raisi wa kwanza wa TAA alikuwa msomi wa Makerere Dr. Vedasto Kyaruzi.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kuwa Waislaam walisahaulika katika uongozi baada ya uhuru na idadi yao kuwa ndogo kwenye baraza la mawaziri wa kwanza Tanzania, nikamwita muongo mkubwa na kumpa si majina tu bali picha ya baraza hilo idadi kubwa ikiwa ni ya Waislaam.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kuwa EAMWS ilikataliwa kujenga chuo na baadaye kupigwa marufuku, nikamweleza jinsi EAMWS ya Ismailia ilivyovamiwa na viongozi wa AMNUT baada ya kutoungwa mkono na Waislaam wenyewe na kuigeuza kuwa kama chama cha upinzani.

Nakumbuka alivyodai Darul Iman ilikatazwa kujenga chuo cha ufundi Kibaha na serikali, akapewa kweli kuwa sababu ya Darul Iman kufungasha virago ilikuwa ni kukosa imani baada ya mafisadi kutafuna hadi hela za kujenga misikiti na kuamua kusitisha mipango yake Tanzania.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kuwa Mwalimu Nyerere hakuweza kumkumbuka Abdulwahid Sykes kwenye hotuba yake ya kuwaaga wazee wa Dar es Salaam, akaumbuka pale alipowekewa hotuba ya Mwalimu lakini bila aibu akaanza na kudai mkanda wa sauti na video.

Nakumbuka alivyodai ni Profesa Kigoma Malima ndiye aliyeanzisha mpango wa kutumia namba kwenye mitihani, akaumbuka pale alipoambiwa mpango huo ulianzishwa miaka mingi kabla ya Malima ila kitu alichotaka ni upendeleo maalum kwa wanafunzi wa Kiislaam, mpango ulioungwa mkono na Meya Kitwana Kondo.

Nakumbuka alivyodai kuwa fujo za Mwembe Chai zilianza mwaka 1998 wakati wa utawala wa Benjamin Mkapa, tukamwambia, hapana, huo ulikuwa ni mwendelezo tu wa fujo zilizoanza wakati wa Hasan Ali Mwinyi ambapo bucha za kuuza nyama zilishambuliwa na watu waliotoka Misikitini.

Nakumbuka alivyodai...I could gon on and on!

Yaani kama unavyosema Nguruvi3, kwa mtu yeyote mwenye uelewa mpana, madai Mohamed Said ni upuuzi na kama unavyosema ni NULL AND VOID. Hata hivyo yana lengo na kwa kiasi fulani kafanikiwa kwa sababu hatuna serikali, this man should be behind bars pamoja na wanafunzi wake Ponda, Ilunga, Uamsho and the rest of the gang...nawakumbuka kwa mbali Mzige, Shaaban na Hashim Saiboko.

Nakumbuka WARSHA iliyokuwa inaandika makala katika gazeti la Annur lililokuwa linafadhiliwa na bwana Kileo...wao ndio walikuja na mkakati wa kuwa na Ubungo Islamic Centre na kuanzishwa kwa redio Kheri. Kituo kikubwa cha kazi za Mohamed Said ni msikiti wa Manyema pale nyuma ya CCM Lumumba. Msikiti ule unamtafaruku kwasababu wamanyema walitaka kupewa jina na uongozi na in fact ndio wanaoongoza akina Jongo. Mohamed Said pia ndiye mentor wa Basaleh pamoja na kuwa kamzidi kiumri.

Webabu · Mar 12, 2013

Mundungus Fletcher said:
Mwandishi aliyeandika makala uliyo iweka
ni personal opinion yake. Alichoandika si facts.

Sawa sawa na makala aliyoleta jasusi hapa ya nani kama nyerere iliyoandikwa kwenye same newspaper.

History ya Nyerere ipo, story za nyerere zipo, video zake zipo, audio za hotuba zake zipo, facts kuhusu yeye pia zipo. So ni swala la msomaji na mtu mwenyewe kufanya upembuzi yakinifu, kumchambua na hatimae kujiridhisha yeye mwenyewe Nyerere anamchukiliaje.

Ila kwa kusoma makala moja, na kumsikiliza mtu moja kukuambia kuhusu nyerere na hapo hapo ukafikia tamati na Kumlabel nyerere unavyotaka wewe (kama ni shujaa au mdhulmati) basi utakuwa humtendei haki.

Mimi sio mtaalamu wa Historia, mimi pia sina upande katika mjadala huu, kwasababu sio mtaalamu wa historia, hivyo kuwa na upande itakuwa nasukumwa na hisia zaidi. Kwasababu Mzee Saidi akinipa nondo zake ntajuaje kama hizi ni za ukweli au za uongo.. Sina utalaamu.

Vivyo hivyo Mzee MM, nguruvi3 na mg3 bila ya kumsahau Jasusi wakitoa nondo zao mimi ntajuaje kama hizi ni za ukweli au za uongo.

Ila mimi na tatizo na ukweli wa swala linalo itwa "dhulma" kwa waislamu.

Ingawa si mtaalaamu na sijabobea katika historia, lakini najua kutambua kama sehemu ina makosa. Hasa linapokuwa linahusu vitu vinavyoweza kuwa prove bila ya kutumia historia.

Huu mnakasha ni mrefu sana, vivyo nina uhakika ni watu wachache sana ambao wameufutalia neno kwa neno kuanzia mwanzo mpaka mwisho.

Ila katika fuatilia yangu mimi, mwanzoni Mzee Said, alionekana kuwakimbiza sana wanao mpinga, na hasa walionekana wanampinga tu kutokana na hisia zao binafsi na walikuwa hawana facts na hawaijui historia vizuri.

Kama umefuatilia vizuri hata wale Pro Mzee Said arguments,(zomba,Ritz, etc) walikuwa wapo kasi sana mwanzoni lakini sasa hivi wamepunguza spidi hata wao wenywe wamepungua (inawezekana pia majuku yamewashika)..

Vivyo hivyo kwa Anti-mzee Said au Pro -Yericko arguments, walikuwa hawana nguvu kabisa mwanzoni lakini sasa naona wameshika kwenye makali, na wako full force.

Kwanini

Na kuna sehemu moja ambayo pamekuwa moto ambapo Anti-Mzee Said, wamepashikilia.

WARSHA's Research

Hizi data zilitumiwa sana humu kwenye mnakasha, na hata kwenye mijadala mengine humu JF na kwenye mitandao mengine, data zilitumiwa kama scientific proof au Tangible truth dhidi ya "dhulma" kwa waislamu. Hizi data zilishika makali na zikakata kata.

Wakaja watu humu Anti-Mzee Said argument wakaleta na wao tangible proof kuonesha highly inaccuracy ya ile Research, the whole methodology wameonesha ina uwalakin, wameelezea kwa kirefu sihiitaji kuingia kiundani.

Hapo is where i come in. Mimi nikaja kumuuliza Mzee Said apinge na adispute (KITAALAMU) claims za kambi pinzani na kudhibitisha ile Research haiko inaccurate na haiwezi kutumiwa kama ushahidi wa kitaalamu wa dhulma dhidi ya waislamu.

Hakuna aliyekuja mpaka sasa hivi, sio Mzee Said wala Ritz, wala wewe Ami wala mtu yoyote.

Sasa wewe ukaja na kuanza kutoa sababu zakitoto kwnye maswala ya kitaalamu. Ukaanza kusema makosa ni ubinadamu, Mzee Said ni binadamu. Inawezekana this, inawezekana that.... Maelezo mengi ya kuexcuse kitu kilichofanyika hapa.

Watu wengi wakaja wakaeleza ni vipi tofauti ya makosa ya kiuandishi na factual errors. Na kwanini wanasema hii ni factual error na hivyo hii Research iko null and void, haiwezi kutumika tena kama kigezo na kielezo cha dhulma dhidi ya waislamu.

Nakama mtu anajua ukweli huu na bado anataka kuitumia Research hii kuaminisha watu wengi ambao anajua kabisa hawajui au hawezi kujua kama i
Zile data sio sawa huyo ni MCHOCHEZI period.

Na mimi naongeze kusema, Mzee Said, ni msomi tena msomi sana, wasifu wake wenyewe mmeuona hapa.

Yeye na watu waliofanya hii Research inaonekana ni watu waliokuwa wanajua kabisa kitu walichokuwa wanafanya. Inawezekana kweli wana VALID madai, au Madai Halal, lakini kutumia njia zisizo halal kudhibitisha madai yako si uungwana. Huku hakuna tofauti na uchakachuaji.

Ni sawa wakristu nao wachukue data za chuo Huko Zanzibar na kuzitumia kama kielezo cha kusema kuwa kweli waislamu hawadhulumiwi Tanzania.

Na hapo ndo lile swala la credibility nililolisema linapokuja...

Kama Research tu ina uwalakin? Kitu ambacho can be proven wrong... Vipi kuhusu reference nyingine ambazo haziwezi kudhibitishwa????

So nadhani hapo mimi ndo naposimamia. Sitaki kusema tuache kuzungumzuia Dai kuu, ila lipo na tunataka kulidhibitisha tulete ushahidi wa kihalali ma hata vijana wadogo wakislamu wajiridhishe kweli tunaonewa na kudhulumiwa au kuna tatizo somewhere...

Nyinyi hamueleweki na hamjielewi kabisa.
Baada kukuletea majibizano ya makala zenyewe kuonesha zinavyompinga Nyerer unaleta hiyo hapo juu.
Ngongo kutokana na hii atajua nani wako chali kati ya watu wa mfumo na wanahistoria!.
Kama hukuona sehemu tu ya mgongano wa makala zinazompinga Nyerere ANGALIA TENA HAPA.

Yericko Nyerere · Mar 12, 2013

Ritz said:
Ndiyo maana nakuambia ficha upumbavu wako.

Ungekuwa umesoma kitabu cha Mohamed Said wala usingeandika pumba hizo Mohamed Said kamuelezea kwingi kwenye kitabu chake wewe una miaka 25 halafu unataka kuminyana na historia ya kariakoo.

Hivi wewe kweli ndiyo wakutupa habari za Sheikh Nurdin wakati sisi tulikuwa kwenye darsa lake mpaka tukasafiri kwenda kumzika.

Kuanguka chooni ni jambo la kawaida tu ukikuwa utajua kumbuka hata Dr Slaa alianguka chooni Mwanza akaumia mkono mpaka leo hajapona ni maradhi tu.

Hahaaa wewe kijana unatisha kwa mbwembwe, haya twende kazi mkuu

Mohamed Said · Mar 12, 2013

Ngongo said:
Mpaka sasa wazee wa Kariako chaliii.

Ngongo,

Hivi si vitu vya maskhara.
Msome Prof. Njozi anasema nini kuhusu hatma ya nchi yetu.

Kisha shuka chini unisome nami nasema kitu gani kuhusu tatizo hilo.
Mimi na Njozi ni Waislam na tunaitahadharisha serikali yetu kuhsu udini
uliopo katika serikali.

Hivi si vitu vya kufanya ushabiki kama wa Simba na Yanga.
Haya ni mambo mazito yenye athari mbaya katika jamii:

[SIZE=+0]It is worth recalling that the German colonial authorities decided it was necessary to use forced labour including the use of the lash to induce the African to work. They also believed that Africans, all Africans had criminal tendencies, lacked personal initiative and self-discipline and were lazy by nature (Koponnen, 1995). Similar arguments are now being presented by the privileged group in Tanzania to explain the gross under-representation of Muslims in education and in key government positions. Muslims, we are told have no one to blame except themselves. This is because they do not value education, they are lazy and extravagant, and being fatalistic, they lack the enterprising spirit which is so crucial for personal advancement. In his widely acclaimed book, The Life and Times of Abdulwahid Sykes: The Untold Story of the Muslim Struggle against British Colonialism in Tanganyika, Said (1998) has presented a detailed account of not only how Muslims spearheaded the struggle for independence but also how their numerous programmes to advance themselves were (and still are being) interfered with by the Christian-dominated government. So far no one has as yet challenged the evidence presented by Mohamed Said. Nor has anyone questioned the devastating findings reported by Sivalon (1992). But since the problem is not lack of information but a determination to maintain the status quo, the derogatory charges against Muslims continue unabated.[/SIZE]

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[TD] Betrayal of Ideals[/TD]
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[TD] On 5 th November, 1985, before he stepped down as president, Nyerere delivered an emotional speech to elders of Dar es Salaam. Most of them were former members of TANU-the townsman who supported Nyerere during the struggle for independence[1] Nyerere acknowledged the role of Muslims in those difficult days. Nyerere told his audience that the imbalances between Muslims and Christians which his government had inherited from the British were rectified under his rule:

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[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] ''And they (Muslims) gave us chance through our education policies, to correct the imbalances which we have done. I am now in the happy position of sometimes not knowing whether a new member of Parliament, a Minister, or a Principal Secretary in our government ministries, is a Muslim or a Christian or neither unless their first name happens to give it away. And even that is not a sure guide in Tanzania, for we have Christians with Muslim names, Muslims with Christian names. This religious tolerance and freedom is your creation; what I have done is to speak up for those values on your behalf.'' [2]

[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] The speech was a farce. The truth is that three decades after independence Muslim are not better off than they were under colonialism. Sivalon has revealed that the Church has been able to create its own lobby which controls 75% of the seats in the parliament. Among these seats 70% are held by Catholics and the rest are divided among Muslims and Christian denominations.[3][/TD]
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[1] See footnote no.19.
[2] Daily News, 6 th November, 1985

[3] Sivalon, op.cit. p. 49.

Kitabu cha Njozi kimepigwa marufuku.
Kitabu changu kipo mitaani ingawa kinakera.

Ikiwa kuna watu wanatupuuza sawa lakini wajue
mficha maradhi...

Ritz · Mar 12, 2013

Yericko Nyerere said:
Hahaaa wewe kijana unatisha kwa mbwembwe, haya twende kazi mkuu

Yericko mimi mkubwa wako.

Webabu · Mar 12, 2013

Mohamed Said said:
Ngongo,

Hivi si vitu vya kufanya ushabiki kama wa Simba na Tanga.
Haya ni mambo mazito yenye athari mbaya katika jamii:

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...

Ni Simba na Yanga.Kalamu imeteleza lakini ujumbe umefika.

ntamaholo · Mar 12, 2013

Boko haram said:
ntamaholo hivi unaujua uislam au ushabiki unakusumbu kwa taarifa yako uislamu sio uarabu na ndio maana kwenye QURAN utakuta kuna aya zinasema ole wao waarabu haina maana kwamba Quran kuandikwa kwa lugha ya kiarabu ndio uarabu na ktk QURAN kuna aya inasema hakuna kulazimishana katika dini wala wewe hujalazimishwa kuingia kwenye uislamu nenda uingereza na ufaransa ndio utajua uislamu unavyokuwa kwa kasi na wao unataka kuniambia wamelazimishwa?

kujiita muislam haina maana kuwa wewe ni muislam. Kuna waislam wa aina nyingi hapa dunian, wote wanajiita waislam. Kuna waislam hawako tayari kuona damu ya mtu inamwagika, lakini kuna waislam wanaoburudika damu ya mtu inapomwagika. Ndio hao alshabab, boko haram, alqueda na sasa tanzania wapo UAMUSHO. Kama upo miongoni mwa hao wanywa damu za watu, ndio ujumbe wangu ulipolala. Ndio maana nimetumia waislam msimamo mkali, they don't think anyway.

Halafu kuna kundi lingine la waislam hawapendi vurugu za ana kwa ana lakini ni washirikina na wanajitangaza kila kukicha. Wana uwezo wa kukutupia jini na wana uwezo wa kuliondoa, hii ni sampul ya akina Yahaya na wengine wenye tabia hizo. Zanzibar na pwani ndio wamejaa hawa.

Mohamed Said · Mar 12, 2013

Ami said:
Ni Simba na Yanga.Kalamu imeteleza lakini ujumbe umefika.

Ami,
Ahsante.

Mohamed Said · Mar 12, 2013

Mundungus Fletcher said:
Mwandishi aliyeandika makala uliyo iweka
ni personal opinion yake. Alichoandika si facts.

Sawa sawa na makala aliyoleta jasusi hapa ya nani kama nyerere iliyoandikwa kwenye same newspaper.

History ya Nyerere ipo, story za nyerere zipo, video zake zipo, audio za hotuba zake zipo, facts kuhusu yeye pia zipo. So ni swala la msomaji na mtu mwenyewe kufanya upembuzi yakinifu, kumchambua na hatimae kujiridhisha yeye mwenyewe Nyerere anamchukiliaje.

Ila kwa kusoma makala moja, na kumsikiliza mtu moja kukuambia kuhusu nyerere na hapo hapo ukafikia tamati na Kumlabel nyerere unavyotaka wewe (kama ni shujaa au mdhulmati) basi utakuwa humtendei haki.

Mimi sio mtaalamu wa Historia, mimi pia sina upande katika mjadala huu, kwasababu sio mtaalamu wa historia, hivyo kuwa na upande itakuwa nasukumwa na hisia zaidi. Kwasababu Mzee Saidi akinipa nondo zake ntajuaje kama hizi ni za ukweli au za uongo.. Sina utalaamu.

Vivyo hivyo Mzee MM, nguruvi3 na mg3 bila ya kumsahau Jasusi wakitoa nondo zao mimi ntajuaje kama hizi ni za ukweli au za uongo.

Ila mimi na tatizo na ukweli wa swala linalo itwa "dhulma" kwa waislamu.

Ingawa si mtaalaamu na sijabobea katika historia, lakini najua kutambua kama sehemu ina makosa. Hasa linapokuwa linahusu vitu vinavyoweza kuwa prove bila ya kutumia historia.

Huu mnakasha ni mrefu sana, vivyo nina uhakika ni watu wachache sana ambao wameufutalia neno kwa neno kuanzia mwanzo mpaka mwisho.

Ila katika fuatilia yangu mimi, mwanzoni Mzee Said, alionekana kuwakimbiza sana wanao mpinga, na hasa walionekana wanampinga tu kutokana na hisia zao binafsi na walikuwa hawana facts na hawaijui historia vizuri.

Kama umefuatilia vizuri hata wale Pro Mzee Said arguments,(zomba,Ritz, etc) walikuwa wapo kasi sana mwanzoni lakini sasa hivi wamepunguza spidi hata wao wenywe wamepungua (inawezekana pia majuku yamewashika)..

Vivyo hivyo kwa Anti-mzee Said au Pro -Yericko arguments, walikuwa hawana nguvu kabisa mwanzoni lakini sasa naona wameshika kwenye makali, na wako full force.

Kwanini

Na kuna sehemu moja ambayo pamekuwa moto ambapo Anti-Mzee Said, wamepashikilia.

WARSHA's Research

Hizi data zilitumiwa sana humu kwenye mnakasha, na hata kwenye mijadala mengine humu JF na kwenye mitandao mengine, data zilitumiwa kama scientific proof au Tangible truth dhidi ya "dhulma" kwa waislamu. Hizi data zilishika makali na zikakata kata.

Wakaja watu humu Anti-Mzee Said argument wakaleta na wao tangible proof kuonesha highly inaccuracy ya ile Research, the whole methodology wameonesha ina uwalakin, wameelezea kwa kirefu sihiitaji kuingia kiundani.

Hapo is where i come in. Mimi nikaja kumuuliza Mzee Said apinge na adispute (KITAALAMU) claims za kambi pinzani na kudhibitisha ile Research haiko inaccurate na haiwezi kutumiwa kama ushahidi wa kitaalamu wa dhulma dhidi ya waislamu.

Hakuna aliyekuja mpaka sasa hivi, sio Mzee Said wala Ritz, wala wewe Ami wala mtu yoyote.

Sasa wewe ukaja na kuanza kutoa sababu zakitoto kwnye maswala ya kitaalamu. Ukaanza kusema makosa ni ubinadamu, Mzee Said ni binadamu. Inawezekana this, inawezekana that.... Maelezo mengi ya kuexcuse kitu kilichofanyika hapa.

Watu wengi wakaja wakaeleza ni vipi tofauti ya makosa ya kiuandishi na factual errors. Na kwanini wanasema hii ni factual error na hivyo hii Research iko null and void, haiwezi kutumika tena kama kigezo na kielezo cha dhulma dhidi ya waislamu.

Nakama mtu anajua ukweli huu na bado anataka kuitumia Research hii kuaminisha watu wengi ambao anajua kabisa hawajui au hawezi kujua kama i
Zile data sio sawa huyo ni MCHOCHEZI period.

Na mimi naongeze kusema, Mzee Said, ni msomi tena msomi sana, wasifu wake wenyewe mmeuona hapa.

Yeye na watu waliofanya hii Research inaonekana ni watu waliokuwa wanajua kabisa kitu walichokuwa wanafanya. Inawezekana kweli wana VALID madai, au Madai Halal, lakini kutumia njia zisizo halal kudhibitisha madai yako si uungwana. Huku hakuna tofauti na uchakachuaji.

Ni sawa wakristu nao wachukue data za chuo Huko Zanzibar na kuzitumia kama kielezo cha kusema kuwa kweli waislamu hawadhulumiwi Tanzania.

Na hapo ndo lile swala la credibility nililolisema linapokuja...

Kama Research tu ina uwalakin? Kitu ambacho can be proven wrong... Vipi kuhusu reference nyingine ambazo haziwezi kudhibitishwa????

So nadhani hapo mimi ndo naposimamia. Sitaki kusema tuache kuzungumzuia Dai kuu, ila lipo na tunataka kulidhibitisha tulete ushahidi wa kihalali ma hata vijana wadogo wakislamu wajiridhishe kweli tunaonewa na kudhulumiwa au kuna tatizo somewhere...

MF,

Umesema mengi.
Lakini yote hayo hayaondoi ukweli kuwa taifa lina tatizo kubwa.

Mag anasema hakuna serikali na ingekuwapo serikali mimi ningekuwa
''behind bars.''

Sawa lakini kabla sijafungwa si ingebidi nisimame mahakamani kujibu
mashtaka?

Moja ya utetezi wangu ni huo hapo chini.
Hamza Njozi anazungumza katika ''Mwembechai Killings...'':

[SIZE=+3]The Limits of "Suffering without Bitterness"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]In his moving farewell speech at the Diamond Jubilee Hall on 4th November, 1985 Mwalimu Nyerere made two statements, of great moment, about Muslims in Tanzania. In a way, those statements encapsulate and crystallise both Tanzania's looming political tragedy and the fading hopes of averting it. In the first part Nyerere paid glowing tribute to Muslims for their political maturity and patience, qualities which greatly contributed to the country's enduring peace. He acknowledged the existence of enormous religious disparities against Muslims in education and employment when the country became independent. And that the inferior status of Muslims was so conspicuous that it could have easily been used to divide the nation. He said that attempts were indeed made to use those imbalances to disrupt the unity and solidarity of Tanzanians, but Muslims spurned them. In the second part Mwalimu Nyerere expressed his satisfaction that as he was stepping down from government leadership Tanzania had already successfully rectified whatever imbalances that existed between Christians and Muslims in education and employment.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Nyerere's second statement has baffled me, and I hope many other Tanzanians since. And like many Tanzanians also, I have too much respect for Mwalimu to accuse him of lying. But how could he commit such a grave factual error in his public farewell speech? There are several logical possibilities. The first one is that he sincerely believed religious imbalances had been redressed. It is a possibility which is difficult to accept. Throughout his political career Nyerere kept himself very well informed about local and international affairs. The position of Muslims in Tanzania is a subject which even the dullest students could hazard a correct answer, how could their teacher, and one who ruled the country for twenty five years, have got it so wrong? The other possibility is that Nyerere like everyone else knew that those imbalances had not been corrected and that in some cases like political appointments the Muslims were even worse off in 1985 than they were in the early sixties. Nyerere had promised Muslims in 1959 that their lowly position could only be set right after independence. After ruling the country for a quarter of a century and after acknowledging the enduring patience of Muslims throughout that long period, Nyerere found it difficult to admit his failure in that regard. But again that is very uncharacteristic of Mwalimu. Way back in 1962 Nyerere wrote Tujisahihishe. The onus of his narration in that small booklet was to underline the need for acknowledging and correcting our mistakes. And in his leadership Nyerere displayed admirable courage in admitting mistakes and even failures without equivocation. The Arusha Declaration: Ten Years After is but one example. But why was Nyerere suddenly unable or unwilling to admit failure in religious imbalances?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]We may never know why Mwalimu made that puzzling statement but many Muslims have been forced to suspect a trace of religious prejudice against them. One can understand why in his book, Said (1998) has described that speech as a "farce". Muslims argue that Nyerere could not have possibly been ignorant of their situation. Nor could he have been embarrassed by his failure to keep his promise. For if that were the case he could have easily ignored that subject altogether as he had done throughout his rule as president. He was under no pressure to raise it. Nyerere not only raised the matter but also attempted to close the Muslim file by misrepresenting it. It was mentioned in chapter one how Nyerere, a Catholic, had vowed to do everything in his power to strengthen Catholicism in Tanzania. Was Nyerere afraid that the new president, a Muslim, would also misuse his power to strengthen Islam in the country? In any case, Nyerere had failed to fulfil his promise. Why was he now deliberately discouraging future leaders from addressing that problem? Did he believe Muslims would perpetually continue with their suffering without any bitterness? A year before Nyerere made that statement Mazrui and Tidy (1984:377-378) noted in their book, Nationalism and New States in Africa that the political leverage of Muslims in Tanzania was well below commensurate levels and that ‘Most observers do not even realise that there are more Muslims than Christians in Tanzania'. They also wrote, (and in retrospect quite prophetically) that while Tanzania had fared better in terms of religious harmony, ‘but the risk that Muslims might become increasingly discontented as they witness a disproportionate share of privilege enjoyed by Christians continue to hang over Tanzania, especially in the years which would follow the departure of Mwalimu Julius Nyerere'.[/SIZE]

Nyambala · Mar 12, 2013

Mohamed Said said:
Nyambala,

Sasa hii kitu gani sielewi nini azma yako.

Kuwa hujui unauliza kutaka kujua au unauliza
kunipima uwezo wangu?

Hapana Mzee Saidi sijauliza kwa kupima uwezo wako bali ni kwa nia nzuri tu ya kutaka kuweka mambo sawa. Na ni muhimu vijana wetu wafahamu historia nzima mpaka uhuru wenyewe ulipopatikana.

mshikachuma · Mar 12, 2013

Mzee Mohamed na wanafunzi wako.

Naombeni mnitajie mabaya na mazuri ya Alhaji Ali Hassan Mwinyi na mh.Jakaya Kikwete....mabaya yao na mazuri yao.

Mohamed Said · Mar 12, 2013

BashaDido said:
Ha ha haaaa! Nimefurahi sana....haya mzee wetu endelea kutupa wasifu wake kwa faida ya wote. Pale utakapokosea kijana wake niko hapa nitarekebisha kwa faida ya wote. Tupe darsa mzee.....

BD,

Kutoka ''The Life and Times of Abdulwahid Sykes...'':

[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 601"] The transition from TAA to TANU at the headquarters was smooth.

There were no problems of personality clashes at the headquarters apart from a small faction of radical Muslims who were plotting to oust Nyerere from Party leadership for being a Christian.

This was the second time the issue of religion had cropped up since Nyerere assumed leadership of the movement for the first time in 1953.

A meeting was called to clarify the status of Christianity in TANU and to establish a nationalist-secularist ideology as a way of preserving national unity.

This meeting was held in a house in Pemba Street and its resolution was supported by Sheikh Hassan Bin Amir, Sheikh Nurdin Hussein from Lindi and Sheikh Abdallah Chaurembo of Dar es Salaam.

This meeting coined the name Yuda which was to be the label of any member of TANU who discriminated his fellow African because of his faith. [1]

The name Yuda coined by TANU had direct relationship with Judas Iscariot of the Bible, the traitor who betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.

The problems which TANU encountered were mainly from colonial government or those inspired by it using fellow Africans as puppets to try to derail the movement.
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[1] See article by Rajab Diwani, 'TANU Ilipambana na Misukosuko Mingi' UHURU 3rd July, 1974.

mshikachuma · Mar 12, 2013

Namaanisha Mwinyi akiwa Rais wakati huo na sasa Kikwete akiwa madarakani. Haya naombeni majibu

Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar

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