Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar

JokaKuu said:

Ritz,

..tuko pamoja ktk mtizamo wako kuhusu harakati za TANU kwa eneo la D'Salaam.

..nilichokuwa nazungumzia mimi ni hoja za Mohamed Said anapodai kwamba baada ya uhuru dola iliwashughulikia watu wa dini moja tu, tena dini yake yeye.

..kwa mtizamo wangu, mkono wa dola haukuwa na huruma kwa watu wa dini moja, huku ukikandamiza dini nyingine. ndiyo maana unaona babu yake Mohamed alitiwa kizuizini akatoka, wakati katibu wake, Christopher Kassanga Tumbo, ambaye alikuwa Mkristo, alizuiliwa kwao Sikonge hata baada ya Mwalimu kuondoka madarakani.

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Joka Kuu,
Katika kitabu changu kuna sehemu ya tatu ya kitabu nimeiipa jina
''Conspiracy Against Islam.''

Ukitaka kujua historia ya Waislam na matatizo ambayo hadi leo bado
yanatushughulisha lazima usome kipande hicho uone baada ya uhuru
nini kilifatia.

Vinginevyo hutoweza kuwa na picha kamili ya historia ya Tanganyika
baada ya uhuru.

jmushi1 said:

Ni kweli,but that was then.

Unazungumzia enzi za kina Saladin?

Click to expand...

Jmushi,
Ni Salahuddin.

Turejee katika maandishi ya Mohammed Said,

Yeyote anayesoma maandishi ya ndugu yetu huyu akiamini anasoma "historia" hajitendei yeye mwenyewe haki na kwa kweli hautendei haki ubongo wake. Mzee Said hakuandika historia - kwa sababu moja kubwa - uandishi wa historia una kanuni zake. NI sawasawa na mtu aseme "amefanya utafiti wa Kisayansi" halafu atuoneshe kumbe alikuwa anapiga bao! Utafiti wa kisayansi hauwi wa kisayansi kwa sababu mtu anasema yeye kafanya hivyo; unakuwa wa kisayansi kwa sababu umefuata kanuni za kisayansi (scientific method) yaani kile kinachojulikana kama empirical method.

Historia ni hivyo hivyo, mtu anapoandika historia anatakiwa kufuata kanuni za uandishi wa historia. Ni tofauti na mtu kuandika masimulizi ya maisha ya watu (biography) au masimulizi ya kukumbuka (memoirs). Mara nyingi hizi zote ni kumbukumbu za watu na wakati mwingine zinaweza zisiwe na mzigo kubwa wa ushahidi. Hata hivyo, mtu anapotaka kuandika 'historia' ni lazima afuate kanuni zake na ni matumaini yangu vijana wetu kwenye hivi vyuo vyetu wanafundishwa jinsi ya kufanya utafiti wa historia.

Mzee Said anaandika kumbukumbu za utoto wake kuhusiana na wazee wake (memoirs) na kwa hili ana haki zote za kutusimuliai nani alikula nini, nani, wapi, kwanini na nani alisema nini. Katika hili ana haki ya kutuletea maneno ya mitaani na mazungumzo ya pembeni na yote yanaburudisha na yanaturejesha miaka hiyo hapo Dar. Anayo haki kabsia ya kutusimulia kumbukumbu zake kuhusu watu mbalimbali walioacha impression katiak utoto wake ambao bila yeye kutusimuliai tusingewajua.

Ni sawasawa na mimi hapa nikianza kuandika juu ya kina Saleh Khalfan, Mwalimu Salim, Mwalim Mjema, Kamanda Mandia, Mwalimu Singano, Fr. Mdoe, n.k ambao nawakumbuka katika utoto wangu huko Tanga. Ni sawa na miye nikijaribu kukumbuka jinsi tulivyokuwa tunashirikiana na ndugu zetu Waislamu kula Idi au Pasaka na hata kupika futari wakati wao wanafunga (tukiishi pamoja). NIna uhakika kila mtu anakumbukumbu zake za Wazee wakati katika mji wake. Hili ni haki kabisa na wala halina tatizo. Na katika hili kwa kweli Mzee Said kafanya jambo jema na kubwa kwani wengi wetu hatujaweza kusimuliai maisha ya wazee wetu. Kwa mfano, miye na familia yangu hatujaweza kuandika historia ya Babu yangu ambaye alikuwa ni Mchungaji wa Kwanza mweusi wa kanisa la Morovian katika Tanganyika; kuna historia hapo ya kuandika au ya mama yangu kuwa alikuwa ni miongoni mwa wanawake wa kwanza wa kwanza kupanda Mlima Kilimanjaro hadi kileleni (miaka ya sitini!! Sasa haya ni masimulizi mazuri tu. NItafanya kiburi nikianza kuwacheka kuwa bila miye kuwaambia "nyie mngejulia wapi!"! Well, masimulizi ya familia yanajulikana na wanafamilia kuyasema na nina uhakika tumesoma humu baadhi ya watu ambao nao wazazi wao wamekuwa na nafasi mbalimbali katika historia. Namfahamu memba mmoja hapa ambaye baba yake alikuwa ni ADF wa Rais Nyerere mapema baada ya Uhuru n.k Lakini hizo ni historia ambazo kila familia huenda kuwa inazo.

Mzee Said kusimuliai mambo ya wazee wake na michango yake wala si tatizo kwani ndivyo tunavyofanya kumbukumbu ya wazee wetu kuishi kutoka kizazi kimoja kwenda kingine. Hata hivyo, hili si sawasawa na kusema kuwa ndiyo "historia". Kwamba ndiyo historia pekee ya kweli na hata tunapotaka kuifanya historia tunashindwa. Kwa mfano, historia haiwi historia ya kweli kwa sababu mtu kakuambia kitu fulani. Kwa mfano, mimi familia inaamini babu yangu alikuwa ni mchungaji wa kwanza mweusi wa Morovian na yeye mwenyewe alitusimuliai hivyo na jamii yetu iliamini hivyo kwa muda mrefu; lakini sijafanya utafiti wa kuthibitisha hili kwa kutumia historical method. Hili ni kweli pia kuhusu mama yangu. Kumbe naweza kuandika kama dai kwa vile nimelisikia mimi mwenyewe kutoka kwa Babu na Mama au naweza kwenda na kutafuta ushahidi na kusema ushahidi huu hapa.

Sasa nikiliacha liwe ni maneno ya kusimuliwa tu basi yanabakia hivyo siwezi kuita historia! Lakini nikisema Babu yangu alikuwa ni mwenye akili kuliko wengine ndio maana alipewa nafasi ile itabidi wasomaji waniulize ushahidi; siwezi kusema 'hivyo ndivyo ninavyojua amini usiamini!"; nitaonekana mwehu na sistahili kujiita Msomi!

Masimulizi ya Mzee Said kwa msingi mkubwa siyo historia kwa sababu hiyo; yanakosa historical basis. Sasa hayawi historia kwa sababu mzee SAid kasimuliwa hivyo; yanakuwa historia kwa sababu historia ina ushahidi wa hilo! Tumegusia huko nyuma juu ya utafiti wa WARSHA ambao ulianzisha madai ya Waislamu Kudhulumiwa; ni kweli wapo watu wameamini utafiti huo lakini wachache wamewahi kuhoji methodology na watu walioufanya. NI wachache wamejaribu kutaka kuona utafiti huo wausome wenyewe ili wajihakikishie kuwa unakidhi matakwa; na badala yake watu wanasema 'kwanini wewe huoni Wakristu walivyojazana kwenye serikali' na ukiuliza wamejazana vipi wanakuambia "8 kati ya 10 serikalini ni Wakristu" na ukiuliza hiyo namba umeipata vipi watu watazunguka zunguka!

Nje ya shule yetu kulikuwa na bango lenye maneno ya kweli - if you think education is expensive try ignorance; wakati mwingine watu kutokana na kupenda dini zao wanakubali kuweka chembe za ubongo pembeni na hawataki kuwa critical! Sasa sijui ni tatizo la mfumo kifisadi au ni uvivu wa kuzoesha kichwa kufikiri. Lakini kama mtu anatumia vizuri uwezo aliojaliwa na Mwenyezi Mungu kufikiri hawezi kuamini masimulizi ya Mohammed Said na kuyapa hadhi ya Historia..!!

Mohamed Said said:

DJ L,

Waleikum Salaam Warahamatullah Wabarakatu.

Ahsante sana ndugu yangu.
Hii historia ilifutwa kabisa na haikutakiwa ijulikane.

Ndiyo kisa tunapata tabu leo kwa kuulizwa maswali
kwa mambo yaliyofanyika na watu ambao walikuwapo.

Leo wazee wetu wanazungumza kutoka kwenye makaburi
yao walikolala...

Akina Sheikh Hassan bin Amir, Sheikh Suleiman Takadir,
Sheikh Mohamed Ramia, Sheikh Mohamed Yusuf Badi, Abdu
Sykes, Idd Tulio, Idd Faiz Mafongo, Idd Tosiri, Mshume Kiyate,
Bi Shariffa bint Mzee, Bi Titi Mohamed, Bi Tatu bint Mzee,
Mama Bint Maalim, Bi Dharura Bint Abdulrahman, Yusuf
Chembera, SalumMpunga, Ali Mnjewale, Suleiman Masoud
Mnonji, Yusuf Olotu...majina huwezi kuyamaliza na kila jina
lina jambo kubwa katika historia ya uhuru wa Tanganyika.

Ndiyo maana kuna maneno haya kakiita kitabu changu...
''The Untold Story of the Muslim Struggle Against British
Colonialism...

Kisa ambacho hakikupata kuelezwa popote...

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Mzee Mohamed,
Unadhani kitabu chako kimeibadili historia ya TANU au Tanganyika? Kitu gani hasa kimebadilishwa na kitabu hiki?
-Tarehe iloozaliwa TANU?
-Rais wa KWANZA wa TANU?
-Waasisi wa TANU?
-Mahala ilipozaliwa TANU?
-Rais wa KWANZA wa Tanganyika/Tanzania?
Hebu jaribu kutembea mtaani uulize kama kuna mtu anamfahamu Abdu, Kiyate, Sheikh Amir,..., Watu wanamfahamu Bibi Titi Mohamed, JK Nyerere, Rashid Mfaume Kawawa,..., endelea kujifariji mzee wangu kule kwenye viwanja vyako.

Kadogoo said:

Mohamed Said,

Naam, tuendelee na darsa, Kuna ukweli gani kuhusu Kanisa Katoliki kutoa mchango wa fedha kugharimikia Mkutano wa Bakwata? kwa lengo gani? Ule mkutano wa pili uliofanyika Diamond Jubilee mwaka 1991 na kuwafukuza viongozi wa Bakwata Kinondoni ulifanikiwa?

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Kadogoo,

Hakuna hata mkutano mmoja ambao uliitishwa na Waislam kuhusu BAKWATA uliofanikiwa
katika malengo yake ya kuwapa Waislam uongozi wa maana.

Serikali na Kanisa vina hofu ya kweli ya kukabiliana na Waislam wakiwa huru na katika taasisi
yao wenyewe.

Hii ndiyo historia ya Waislam na harakati zote za kujiletea maendeleo.
Hebu soma hii kutoka moja ya pp zangu kuna mengi ya kujifunza:

On 12 February, in a live broadcast from Songea duringMaulid celebrations,
Sheikh Hemed bin Jumaa sneered at the efforts of the President arguing that
president Mwinyi was involving himself in trying to effect changes to BAKWATA
without being conversant with its history and objectives; and without knowing
why it was formed by the government of Julius Nyerere in the first place.[1]

This time round the slap on the face was on President Mwinyi not former president
Nyerere.

Failingto dislodge BAKWATA from its offices the committee decided to lodge its
own application to the Registrar of Societies for registration.

Muslims had come up with an innovation which would force the government to
officially allow another national Muslim organisation to operate and serve the Muslim
community.

The government sat on the application formore than a year.

Meanwhile Baraza Kuu continued to operate and enjoy Muslim support.

The vacuum created by BAKWATA for its non-compliance of the wishes of Muslims was
ably filled by Baraza Kuu. [2]

Meanwhile BAKWATA sank deep into oblivion as Muslims ignored it completely.

On 28 April, 1993 bizarre occurrence took place.

In desperation and in its effort to salvage BAKWATA the Minister of Home Affairs and
Deputy Prime Minister Augustine Mrema convened a meeting between Muslims and
Christians at the Diamond Jubilee Hall, Dar es Salaam.

The agenda was not known.
The Church sent a strong delegation.

Muslims abstained except BAKWATA.

The few Muslims who turned up were there out curiosity rather than convictiont hat the meeting
would bear fruits.

When the time for introduction between thetwo parties came, Muslims present at the meeting
refused to shake hands with the Church leadership.

This was an embarrassment to the government propaganda machinery sent to the meeting by the
Christian Lobby to record and broadcast the event.

Mrema addressed the meeting in which in his speech it was revealed that elections for BAKWATA
were long overdue and could not be held because of lack of funds.

The Church volunteered to provide funds to BAKWATA to enable it hold its elections.

The Minister for Home Affairs Augustine Mrema also helped tocollect money from the business
community to fund BAKWATA elections.

Wheneventually BAKWATA met in Dodoma from 10 th-12 th May the guest of honour was
Augustine Mrema.

Instead of conducting elections BAKWATA passed someconstitution changes to empower the
Grand BAKWATA Mufti Sheikh Hemed bin Hemed with absolute powers to fire any executive
member without being answerable to anyone.

Baraza Kuu has survived alongside BAKWATA and has full support ofMuslims but all the succeeding
governments have refused to recognise it as true representative of Muslims of Tanzania Mainland.

---

[1] Part of the speech appears verbatim in An-Nuur, June, 1993,"Mufti Hemed Afichua Siri Kubwa."
[2] Baraza Kuu la Jumuiya naTasisi za Kiislam 16 Mei, 1992 Kauli Rasmi ya Baraza Kuu, Mkutano wa Chuo Kikuu Dar es
Salaam 15 Septemba 1991 na Diamond Jubilee Dar es Salaam 4 Januari, 1992.

Mohamed Said said:

Joka Kuu,
Katika kitabu changu kuna sehemu ya tatu ya kitabu nimeiipa jina
''Conspiracy Against Islam.''

Ukitaka kujua historia ya Waislam na matatizo ambayo hadi leo bado
yanatushughulisha lazima usome kipande hicho uone baada ya uhuru
nini kilifatia.

Vinginevyo hutoweza kuwa na picha kamili ya historia ya Tanganyika
baada ya uhuru.

Click to expand...

Mohamed Said,

..Christopher Kassanga Tumbo, na Joseph Kasela Bantu, wangekuwa wamezaliwa Kariakoo na Waislamu nina hakika pangechimbika kwa mabuku na ma-paper ambayo ungeandika kuhusu zahama zilizowakuta.

..kuhusu matatizo ya Waislamu, inasikitisha kwamba jukumu la kuuelimisha umma amepewa Ustaadh Ilunga ambaye anapita nchi nzima akiwapotosha vijana wa Kiislamu kumu-idolize Mwamwindi. Kuna wengine Muslim Foundation wameripotiwa kujenga misikiti 700 vs shule 7, baadaye wanakwenda redio Imaan wanalalamika wananyimwa elimu.

..Yes, Waislamu wana matatizo mengi na yanajulikana, lakini kuna hili jipya la KUPOTOSHANA.

Cdugu zangu waislam nawashauri mfanye kazi kwabidii muache kulaum hovyo tena lawama zenyewe hazina maana yeyote mnalaum kuwa nchi inaongozwa na mfumo kiristo, huku wenzenu wakiristo wakikazana ktk shughuli za kimaendeleo ndo maana nyiye mna chuo kikuu kimoja wakiristo wanavyo kibao, hosipitali kibao, shule kibao na vyote hivyo vinatoa huduma kwa wote. Tufanyeni kazi tuachane na manunguniko ya kitoto

kama kawaida nimechapuka hapa kuchota elimu/ilimu.

jmushi1 said:

Ni kweli,but that was then.

Unazungumzia enzi za kina Saladin?

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The caliphate of al-Hakam II (961-976) marked the high point of Islamic civilization in Muslim Spain (initiated by the exiled Umayyad caliph Abd al-Rahman in 756). The Umayyad capital from 929 to 1031 was Cordoba. On the banks of the Guadalqavir River, Cordoba rose to become the most cultured city in Europe, and, with Constantinople and Baghdad, took its place as one of the three cultural centers of the medieval world. Cordoba at its height boasted a population of perhaps half a million living in 113,000 houses scattered among 21 suburbs (by comparison, there were only 40,000 living in Paris at this time). The city housed 70 libraries. The library of al-Hakam II, a bibliophile of the first rank and perhaps the most scholarly of all Muslim caliphs, contained some 400,000 volumes (while the Swiss abbey of St. Gall had only about 600 books). There were 1,600 mosques, 900 public baths, and more than 80,000 shops. (Peter N. Stearns (ed.), The Encyclopedia of World History, Sixth Edition (Boston: Houghton-Mifflin, 2001), 179).
Construction on Cordoba's most famous surviving monument, La Mezquita ("the Mosque") was begun by Abd al-Rahman I in 786 on the sight of a Roman temple and Visigothic church and continued in stages up to the times of Hisham II in the eleventh century. (see more below)
The University of Cordoba, founded by al-Hakam's father, Abd al-Rahman III, grew to preeminence throughout the medieval world, attracting scholars from all over. The height of Muslim learning in Andalus reached its peak during the time of Ibn Rushd (Averroes), 1126-98, philosopher, commentator on Plato and Aristotle, and physician. However, his sojourns in Andalus were not entirely smooth: in 1195, the al-Mohad ruler Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur (1184-1199) ordered Ibn Rushd into exile and further ordered that his books be burned. Two years later, however, Ibn Rushd was restored to favor.
Another high point in the twelfth century was the collaboration of two scholars, one Christian and the other Muslim, on a series of translations of dozens of works from Arabic into Latin (by way of Spanish). The works included texts in astronomy, medicine, mathematics and philosophy. The Christian was Gerard of Cremona, and his good friend and colleague was the Muslim Ghalib the Mozarab.
Andalusian Arabs looked down the ends of their noses at their northern European neighbors whom they deemed uncivilized and boorish. The Toledan judge, Said (died 1070), wrote that the temperament of the Northerners, like their climate, was, "cold and their humours rude, while their bodies have grown large, their complexion light and their hair long. They lack withal sharpness of wit and penetration of intellect, while stupidity and folly prevail among them." ( Philip Hitti, A History of the Arabs, tenth edition (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1970), 526)
Andalusian Arabs introduced agricultural methods from Western Asia into Europe. Canals were dug. Grapes were cultivated. Among the plants and fruits they introduced into the region were: rice (ar-ruzz ), apricots (al-barquq ), peaches, pomegranates, Seville (bitter) oranges (the Portuguese later introduced sweet oranges from India), sugar cane (al-sukkar ), cotton (al-qutn ), and saffron (al-za'faraan). Through Alexandria and Constantinople, Andalusian products found markets as far away as India and Central Asia. Trade with Baghdad, Damascus, and Mecca was especially active. The international nautical vocabulary of the modern world contains many words that echo Arab supremacy on the high seas in the Middle Ages: admiral, arsenal, average (from al-'awariyah, a duty leveled upon transported goods), cable, corvette (ghuraab, a war vessel, the Spanish corbeta), shallop (sloop, from Arabic jalbah, and Spanish chalupa), and tariff.
The process of manufacturing crystal was invented in Cordoba during this time, and Cordobans developed new methods of manufacturing paper (initially from China) in huge paper mills.
Andalus became the center for translating Arabic works into Latin. Poetry thrived, and works in the "courtly love" tradition made their way into Provençal culture (Southern France) from Andalus on the tongues of "troubadours" (from an Arabic root ta-ra-ba meaning "to be transported with joy and delight"). Cordoba's Ibn Hazm (died 1064) was a leading example. (see J. R. Hayes (et al. eds.), The Genius of Arab Civilization, Second Edition (United Kingdom: Westerham Press, Ltd., 1983), 37) Starting with the famous musician Zaryab (died ca. 850), Andalus became a center for innovation in music.
Physician Abbas az-Zahrawi ("Albucasis" or "Abulcasis" ca. 940-1013) wrote his medical encyclopedia at-Tasrif which emphasized the nurturing of good doctor-patient relations and contained a wealth of clinical information. The Moroccan born geographer al-Idrisi (1100-1166) trained at Cordoba.
Finally, Abu-Imran Musa Ibn-Maymun, "Maimonides" (1135-1204), preeminent Jewish philosopher of the Middle Ages was born in Cordoba. Maimonides wrote his most famous work, Dalalat al-Ha'ireen ("Guide of the Perplexed") in Arabic, an attempt to reconcile Jewish theology with Muslim Aristotelianism. Maimonides has been touted as one of the best examples of the mutual tolerance between Muslims, Jews, and Christians that led to the cultural flowering in Andalus in the medieval period. However, the fact is he was forced out of Cordoba during a purge by the puritanical Muslim al-Mohads about 1165 after which he moved to Cairo where he served as court physician to Salah al-Din (Saladin) and where he died.
After 1031, The Caliphate of Cordoba split up into a number of smaller taifas (kingdoms). Cordoba itself fell first into the hands of the al-Moravids in 1094, then came under control of the al-Mohads in 1149. The city fell to the Christians in 1236 after which it went into steep decline. The Mezquita was gradually converted into a church. The most severe changes took place under Charles V in 1523, who, as he inspected the renovations, was said to have remarked to the priests in charge, "You have built what you or others might have built anywhere, but you have destroyed something that was unique in the world."
Granada (Arabic Karnatta, both words mean "pomegranate") reached its pinnacle during the reigns of Yusef I (1334-54) and Muhammad V (1354-91). These rulers were principally responsible for the construction of the Alhambra Palace (from Arabic al-Hamra, "the Red").



In 1212, Muslim forces were crushed in a battle with Christian armies at Navas de Tolosa. Of all the major Muslim Andalusian cities, only Granada held on until it, too, was captured by Christians in 1492. This was the turning point marking the final phase of Muslim rule in Spain.

Mohamed Said said:

Menyidyo,

Katika miaka ya 1990 wakati Kitwana Kondo ni Meya wa
Dar es Salaam alibadili majina ya mitaa na kuipa majina
ya wazalendo waliopigania uhuru.

Mabadiliko yale yalileta malalamiko mengi katika magazeti
hasa kwa kuwa majina yote yalikuwa ya Waislam.

Sarah Dumba wa RTD akafanya mahojiano na Kitwana Kondo
kuhusu kadhia ile.

Mzee Kondo akamwambia Sarah Dumba kuwa ikiwa kuna watu
wasiowajua wazalendo wale bora waulize watafahamishwa.

Menyidyo,

Majina yalotajwa ni mengi na kukuwekea hapa nani alikuwa nani
ni kazi kubwa.

Lakini ikiwa unapenda kuwajua na kujua majina hayo na nini yalifanya
katika kupigania uhuru wa Tanganyika itabidi usome kitabu changu
''Maisha na Nyakati za Abdulwahid Sykes...''

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oooh kumbe na matangazo madogo madogo yanaruhusiwa hapa.inaonekana kupitia mnakasha huu mauzo yamepanda.mzee Mohamed Said kwa style hii uko juu kimapato.:biggrin:

WildCard said:

Mzee Mohamed,
Unadhani kitabu chako kimeibadili historia ya TANU au Tanganyika? Kitu gani hasa kimebadilishwa na kitabu hiki?
-Tarehe iloozaliwa TANU?
-Rais wa KWANZA wa TANU?
-Waasisi wa TANU?
-Mahala ilipozaliwa TANU?
-Rais wa KWANZA wa Tanganyika/Tanzania?
Hebu jaribu kutembea mtaani uulize kama kuna mtu anamfahamu Abdu, Kiyate, Sheikh Amir,..., Watu wanamfahamu Bibi Titi Mohamed, JK Nyerere, Rashid Mfaume Kawawa,..., endelea kujifariji mzee wangu kule kwenye viwanja vyako.

Click to expand...

WC,
Kumbe jibu tayari unalo sasa unauliza kitu gani?

kadoda11 said:

oooh kumbe na matangazo madogo madogo yanaruhusiwa hapa.inaonekana kupitia mnakasha huu mauzo yamepanda.mzee Mohamed Said kwa style hii uko juu kimapato.:biggrin:

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Kadoda,
Hakika kitabu kimeuzika sana na hasa baada ya kujulikana hapa JF.

Kwa kweli nakushukuruni sana kwa kuniunga mkono.
Lakini kubwa zaidi ni kuwa kitabu hiki kimenitia katika orodha nyingine.

Nimealikwa kwenye vyuo vingi kuhadhir Afrika, Ulaya na Marekani hasa
baada ya kitabu kupata reviews mbili katika Cambridge Journal of African
History.

Namshukuru Allah.

JokaKuu said:

Mohamed Said,

..Christopher Kassanga Tumbo, na Joseph Kasela Bantu, wangekuwa wamezaliwa Kariakoo na Waislamu nina hakika pangechimbika kwa mabuku na ma-paper ambayo ungeandika kuhusu zahama zilizowakuta.

..kuhusu matatizo ya Waislamu, inasikitisha kwamba jukumu la kuuelimisha umma amepewa Ustaadh Ilunga ambaye anapita nchi nzima akiwapotosha vijana wa Kiislamu kumu-idolize Mwamwindi. Kuna wengine Muslim Foundation wameripotiwa kujenga misikiti 700 vs shule 7, baadaye wanakwenda redio Imaan wanalalamika wananyimwa elimu.

..Yes, Waislamu wana matatizo mengi na yanajulikana, lakini kuna hili jipya la KUPOTOSHANA.

Click to expand...

Joka,
Mimi na wewe tunakwenda vyema.

Nakuomba ukizungumza na mimi tuache habari ya Sheikh Ilunga.
Tujikite katika yale ambayo mimi nina ujuzinayo na wewe wayajua.

kadoda11 said:

kama kawaida nimechapuka hapa kuchota elimu/ilimu.

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Kadoda,

Ni ''ilm'' siyo ''ilimu.''

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

This is silly; hivi unajua Upapa (Papacy) ndio una historia ndefu zaidi ya kuwa na mahusiano ya kidiplomasia duniani? Of course kile kinachoitwa "Ubalozi wa Vatican" kimsingi ni ubalozi wa Holy See na ndio maana officially mwakilishi wa Holy See haitwi "Balozi wa Vatican" (japo unofficially ndivyo anavyoitwa) bali huitwa 'Papal Nuncio'.

Sasa, hakuna tatizo hata kidogo kwa nchi kuwa na mahusiano ya kibalozi na Taasisi; tuna mahusiano ya namna hiyo na taasisi za Umoja wa Mataifa na hata Umoja wa Mataifa ni taasisi lakini ina mabalozi wake na nchi zina mabalozi pale. Taasisi ya OIC ni mojawapo ya taasisi ambazo japo ni ya Waislamu inaruusu nchi kuwa na wawakililishi (Marekani ina balozi wake OIC). Ndio maana sisi wengine tunaamini Tanzania inatakiwa ianzishe uhusiano wa kibalozi na OIC (nililisema hili tangu 2007) na wala halina shida. Tayari Tanzania ina mahusiano na Aga Khan (Taasisi ya Kiislamu ikiongozwa na Imam) ambao wanapewa Kinga nchini zile zile za Kibalozi (rejea makubaliano ya Mkapa na Aga Khan).

Kwa hiyo hakuna hhoja dhidi ya Vatican City kama nchi au Holy See kama Serikali ya Papa.

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Mwanakijiji unanifurahisha,

Hujajibu kisomi hoja yako bali mwendelezo wa blah blah tu Vatican sio nchi na itaendelea kutokuwa nchi ndio maana hata UN haina status ya full membership badala yake wamepewa observer member kama PLO na mara nyingi wakiomba wanapigwa chini kwasababu sio nchi.

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

This is silly; hivi unajua Upapa (Papacy) ndio una historia ndefu zaidi ya kuwa na mahusiano ya kidiplomasia duniani? Of course kile kinachoitwa "Ubalozi wa Vatican" kimsingi ni ubalozi wa Holy See na ndio maana officially mwakilishi wa Holy See haitwi "Balozi wa Vatican" (japo unofficially ndivyo anavyoitwa) bali huitwa 'Papal Nuncio'.

Sasa, hakuna tatizo hata kidogo kwa nchi kuwa na mahusiano ya kibalozi na Taasisi; tuna mahusiano ya namna hiyo na taasisi za Umoja wa Mataifa na hata Umoja wa Mataifa ni taasisi lakini ina mabalozi wake na nchi zina mabalozi pale. Taasisi ya OIC ni mojawapo ya taasisi ambazo japo ni ya Waislamu inaruusu nchi kuwa na wawakililishi (Marekani ina balozi wake OIC). Ndio maana sisi wengine tunaamini Tanzania inatakiwa ianzishe uhusiano wa kibalozi na OIC (nililisema hili tangu 2007) na wala halina shida. Tayari Tanzania ina mahusiano na Aga Khan (Taasisi ya Kiislamu ikiongozwa na Imam) ambao wanapewa Kinga nchini zile zile za Kibalozi (rejea makubaliano ya Mkapa na Aga Khan).

Kwa hiyo hakuna hhoja dhidi ya Vatican City kama nchi au Holy See kama Serikali ya Papa.

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Mwanakijiji hapo nilipo bold pana matatizo makubwa na huo ni mtazamo wako lakini si mtazamo wa wakuu wako wa kiimani kwasababu nakumbuka mh waziri wa mambo ya nje bw Benard Membe alilipeleka hili swala bungeni na wabunge wengi wa upande wapili walipinga sana na wale waislamu waliliunga mkono huku waziri mwenye dhamana ya hilo swala akisema yeye haoini shida ya hilo swala,Nakumbuka baada ya huo mjadala mkuu wako kadinali Pengo alimlalamikia sana Membe na waziri baada ya siku kadhaa akabatilisha hiyo hoja ikafutwa sasa Mwanakijiji usishangae kuona tunasema nchi hii inaendeshwa kwa mfumo kristo.

Mohamed Said said:

Kadoda,

Ni ''ilm'' siyo ''ilimu.''

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hahahaha sawa mzeee

Nguruvi3 said:

Mimi nitafurahi sana tukiiona barua hiyo. Wala usidhani nakataa uwepo wa barua, ninacho hoji ni jinsi ulivyomalizia taarifa yako. Kama wametajwa watu kadha wa kadha sioni mantiki ya kumchagua Nyerere peke yake miongoni mwa kundi kubwa sana na kuandika ''Nyerere hakupelekewa barua''. Suala hapa si kuhoji kama barua ilikuwepo au haikuwepo wala majina ya waliotumiwa. Hoja ni kuhoji kwanini kauli ya ''Nyerere hakutumiwa'' imetumika! kwanini isiwe Kyaruzi, Mtamilwa au mwingine iwe specific kwa Nyerere.Ndiyo maana nasema kwa haraka haraka it's ok, kwa fikra hapa hakuna shaka hata kidogo ulidhamiria kumdhalilisha sana Nyerere ili pengine umkweze sana Abdul Sykes na wenzake.Ulichomaanisha ni;1. Ima, Kwamba tayari alikuwa na uhusiano na UTPau2. Hakuwa muhimu sana katika siasa na hivyo hakukuwa na haja ya yeye kupelekewa barua.Ni mtindo huo huo uliotumika wakati unasema mwaka 1961 A.Sykes hakuhudhuria sherehe za Uhuru ukiwa na maana mtu muhimu sana kama yeye aliachwa miongoni mwa maelfu, lakini kwa Nyerere umetumia kinyume chake.Mohamed unajua kuna kitu kinaitwa ''connotation'' tunakifahamu ni vema ukawa unaangalia hadhra unayowasiliana nayo kwanza!!Hoja hapa ni kuwa ni busara au mantiki ipi ilitumika na ilikusudia nini kusema ''Nyerere hakupelekewa barua''

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Mkuu nguruvi,Wewe ni kiboko kwa engo unazomweka mzee wetu ni balaa.Hapa haonewi mtu ni hoja kwa hoja, tatizo la mzee wetu asifikili anaojadiliana nao wote ni wale wa ndiyo mzee anakosea sana. we ni noma.

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Unadhani basi ataweza; muulize tu akupe kati ya nchi zote duniani ni ngapi zina mahusiano na Papa na zile ambazo hazina? Maana hata ambazo hazina zina mahusiano ya aina fulani. Labda nijibu mwenyewe; kuna nchi 15 hivi ambazo hazina uhusiano wowote wa kidiplomasia na Holy See. Hizi ni:

Afghanistan, Bhutan, Brunei, Comoros, Laos, the Maldives, Mauritania, Myanmar, North Korea, Oman, the People's Republic of China, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Tuvalu and Vietnam

Kutoka Wikipedia: Rangi ya kijani ni nchiz ote ambazo zina uhusiano wa kibalozi na Holy See (ambazo hazina controversy ambayo ndugu yetu Mdondoaji anasema ipo)

Kitu ambacho nimeelewa baada ya kumsoma mara kwa mara ni kuwa anafikiria au anaamini kuwa Tanzania inayo "Ubalozi wa Vatican City State" na sisi wengine tumechangia kumfanya aamini hivyo kwa kusisitiza unchi wa Vatican City State. To put record state ni Holy See ambayo mkuu wake ni Papa na ambayo ni serikali ya Papa (Mkuu wa Kanisa Katoliki) ambayo Tanzania na nchi nyingine zina mahusiano nayo. Sasa, ikumbukwe kwamba kuwa kiongozi wa dini fulani siyo kigezo cha kutokuwa na uhusiano wa kidiplomasia nimetoa mfano wa Aga Khan (ambaye ni Imam Mkuu wa madhehebu ya Ismailiya duniani - sawa na Papa kama mkuu wa Dhehebu Katoliki Duniani). Aga Khan kupitia taasisi yake ya AKDN ina mahusiano ya kibalozi na baadhi ya nchi na kupewa kinga za kibalozi (mfano ni huu wa Tanzania).

Holy See inafanya kazi kutokea Vatican City na hivyo mara nyingi watu (kama mimi) tunazungumzia uhusiano na Vatican kama vile mtuakizungumzia uhusiano wa kibalozi kati ya Tanzania na Riyadh au Tanzania na Tehran. Tukisema ubalozi wa Washington DC, tunajua tunazungumzia ni nchi gani au wanamwakilisha nani. Hii hata siyo issue sijui kwanini bado inasumbua watu.

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Mwanakijiji jibu lako liko hapa soma hii:-

Even without an exhaustive review of international legal definitions of statehood, there are indications that the Holy See does not meet these criteria. According to the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States: "The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a) a permanent population; b) a defined territory; c) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."34 These four factual criteria for determining statehood are founded upon principles that have been accepted by a host of international law scholars and are consistent with the foreign laws of some nations.35 The Holy See does not satisfy this definition. Almost by definition, it does not possess a defined territory Because the Holy See is the supreme organ of government for Catholics worldwide, it cannot be said to have a "permanent population." Finally, the Holy See is itself the government of both the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican City It cannot therefore be regarded as an entity that possesses a government. The only characteristic of a modern state that is attributable to the Holy See is its capacity to enter into relations with other states. The Holy See is party to international treaties and it, rather than the Vatican City, receives foreign envoys.


Hapa kwenye wino mwekundu kunaonyesha Holy See is the one with diplomatic ties na sio Vatican state.

Na unaposema hili sio issue tunarudi kwenye maswali ya Former president Aboud Jumbe kuwa ikiwa Tanzania haina dini then why tuna uhusiano wa kibalozi na Vatican?

Kuna bwana/bibi ameniuliza swali ati nchi gani za kiislamu ambazo hazina uhusiano na Vatican labda nimtajie Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Brunei, Somalia, Oman. Pia kuna zisizo za kiislamu pia hazina mfano China, North Korea je una swali jengine?