Hebu nipe vipengele vya kisheria nilivyouliza hapo mwanzo je kisheria Vatican nchi??? Naona kati yangu mie na nyie msomi anaweza kujitambua mwenywe.
Mdondoaji wakati mwingine unazungumza kama mtu mwenye dalili za usomi lakini wakati mwingine hisia zako zinakufanya uonekane kama mtu ambaye alipita nje ya majengo ya shule. Jadili hoja kama unaweza kama huwezi usilete viroja. Utu uzima huja na wajibu.
Mohamed, tuliangalie hili la Ilunga kidogo ili tuzidi kwenda vyema.Joka,Mimi na wewe tunakwenda vyema.Nakuomba ukizungumza na mimi tuache habari ya Sheikh Ilunga.Tujikite katika yale ambayo mimi nina ujuzinayo na wewe wayajua.
Huyu ndiye ameaminiwa na ''waislam'' kuwazindua kuhusu Mfumokristo.Mohamed Said;5999306]Remote,Mimi huwezi kunilinganisha na Sheikh Ilunga.Ilunga ni alim.
Mimi napiga goti nasomeshwa na Sheikh Ilunga.Mimi akiwapo siwezi hata kunyanyua sauti yangu
kunong'ona achilia mbali kusema.Heshima ya Sheikh Ilunga iko juu sana kwa Waislam.
Ndiyo maana umeona yeye ndiye aliyeaminiwa kutembea
nchi nzima kuwazindua Waislam kuhusu mfumokristo.
Mimi siwezi hata kumbebea viatu vyake
Naona unawalisha wenzako ngano za nazi...ha haa ha.Akukuuliza kuhusu bei ya hotuba ya Nyerere pale TBC?Akukuuliza wewe ni mtoto wa ngapi wa Julius Kambarage?Ndugu zangu wana jf, Nimefarijika kuona mada hii imeangaza sehemu nyingi duniani na inaendelea kuwaangazia wengi zaidi, Juzi niliombwa namba na mdau mmoja akajitambulisha kuwa yeye ni mhadhiri kutoka Chuo kikuu cha California nchini Marekani. Jana akanipigia simu, na tukaongea mengi sana, lakini kubwa zaidi akasema yeye amesoma kitabu cha Maisha na nyakati za Abdul Sykes kilichoandikwa na Mohamed Said ambacho ndicho nilichokipinga katika uzi huu na kuweka ukweli halisi japo kwakifupi tu. Akasema zaidi kuwa yeye alikuwa ni muhanga wa kitabu hicho kwani aliamini habari za Mohamed kwa asilimia fulani lakini kuna mambo yalikuwa yakimtatiza mpaka alipobahatika kusoma uzi huu. Anazidi kusema kuwa amewaambia baadhi ya wanafunzi wake waufuatilie kwaukaribu uzi huu, kwakuwa unamengi mazuri na mapya kwao kwa historia ya harakati za ukombozi afrika. Hii ni heshima kubwa kwa jf na uongozi wake mzima kwakuendelea kuulinda mjadala huu mpaka hapa ulipofika, Nawaomba Mods muendelee kuulinda hivyohivyo kwa mafaa ya historia ya nchi yetu, na ikiwezekana ubadilisheni rangi iwe nyekundu kuonyesha ni zaidi ya STICKY THREAD tulizozizoea.
Mdondoaji, naomba msaada kidogo. Hii kauli ya Jumbe sijaielewa vizuri.Mdondoaji;6013872] Na unaposema hili sio issue tunarudi kwenye maswali ya Former president Aboud Jumbe kuwa ikiwa Tanzania haina dini then why tuna uhusiano wa kibalozi na Vatican?
Mohamed, tuliangalie hili la Ilunga kidogo ili tuzidi kwenda vyema.
Hebu tuangalie hii habari kwa ufupi halafu tujiulize kama unasababu za kutojua au kutokuwa na ujuzi na yale ya IlungaHuyu ndiye ameaminiwa na ''waislam'' kuwazindua kuhusu Mfumokristo.
Katika maandiko yako mengi sana yakiwemo ya hoja hapa JF, mara nyingi umeelezea moja kwa moja jinsi mfumokristo unavyofanya kazi.
Na hakika maana halisi ya kazi zako ni kueleza kuhusu mfumo huo na jinsi waislam wanavyoonewa na kufanywa raia daraja la pili(nina nukuu ya maneno hayo) kutokana na mfumokrsito.
Sasa iweje usiwe na ujuzi na mfumokristo ''waislam'' waliomtuma Sheikh Ilunga kuueleza ambao wewe umekuwa kinara wake katika kuuonyesha kwa maneno na takwimu?
Tutawezaje kutenganisha mfumokristo anaoongelea Ilunga na ule unaojadiliana nasi hapa kila siku?
Mdondoaji,Twende taratibu,
Kwanza umesema kuwa ati Vatican City ndio wana diplomatic ties na nchi 180. Huo ni uongo kwani walio na diplomatic ni Holy See wakimwakilisha papa kwa waumini wao. Labda nikuulize ushawahi kusikia balozi wa Vatican asiyekuwa cardinal, mkatoliki na pia sio mwakilishi wa Holy See???
Pili unadai kanisa Lina uwekezaji mwingi uongo mwengine. Wangelikuwa wawekezaji wangeliwakataza Kanisa lisiwe linachukua kodi zetu kila mwaka. Pili kwa uchumi upi ambao Vatican unao hadi wawe wawekezaji ? By the way uchumi wa Vatican ni Mdogo kuliko wa Tanzania sasa jiulize wewe hizo pesa unazodai wamewekeza wamezitoa wapi? Nipo njiani ila nikifika ofisininitakuwekea wanavyosema wataalamu wa Sheria kuhusu Vatican na diplomatic ties
Jibu la pumba zako zote ni hili,
Vatican sio nchi na hivyo kama si nchi Tanzania inakuwaje inakuwa na uhusiano nayo wakati ni taasisi ya dini? Pia kama Tanzania ina uhusiano na taasisi ya kidini suali jengine linakuja je Tanzania ina dini?
Ndio maana Rais mstaafu aliuliza swali kama Tanzania haina dini inakuwaje inakuwa na uhusiano wa kidiplomasia na Vatican? Saa zengine Mwanakijiji unaongea pumba just kutetea dini yako what you are suggesting and talking is pure non-sense to me narudia tena ikiwa mnadai Tanzania haina dini basi Vatican wanabidi waondoke. Hamna hoja ya kisomi yenye mashiko kutetea Vatican ni nchi zaidi ya pumba tu.
Sijui kama unajua Uislam umeitawala Ulaya miaka 800.
He who praises rain has been rained on...Turejee katika maandishi ya Mohammed Said,Yeyote anayesoma maandishi ya ndugu yetu huyu akiamini anasoma "historia" hajitendei yeye mwenyewe haki na kwa kweli hautendei haki ubongo wake. Mzee Said hakuandika historia - kwa sababu moja kubwa - uandishi wa historia una kanuni zake. NI sawasawa na mtu aseme "amefanya utafiti wa Kisayansi" halafu atuoneshe kumbe alikuwa anapiga bao! Utafiti wa kisayansi hauwi wa kisayansi kwa sababu mtu anasema yeye kafanya hivyo; unakuwa wa kisayansi kwa sababu umefuata kanuni za kisayansi (scientific method) yaani kile kinachojulikana kama empirical method. Historia ni hivyo hivyo, mtu anapoandika historia anatakiwa kufuata kanuni za uandishi wa historia. Ni tofauti na mtu kuandika masimulizi ya maisha ya watu (biography) au masimulizi ya kukumbuka (memoirs). Mara nyingi hizi zote ni kumbukumbu za watu na wakati mwingine zinaweza zisiwe na mzigo kubwa wa ushahidi. Hata hivyo, mtu anapotaka kuandika 'historia' ni lazima afuate kanuni zake na ni matumaini yangu vijana wetu kwenye hivi vyuo vyetu wanafundishwa jinsi ya kufanya utafiti wa historia. Mzee Said anaandika kumbukumbu za utoto wake kuhusiana na wazee wake (memoirs) na kwa hili ana haki zote za kutusimuliai nani alikula nini, nani, wapi, kwanini na nani alisema nini. Katika hili ana haki ya kutuletea maneno ya mitaani na mazungumzo ya pembeni na yote yanaburudisha na yanaturejesha miaka hiyo hapo Dar. Anayo haki kabsia ya kutusimulia kumbukumbu zake kuhusu watu mbalimbali walioacha impression katiak utoto wake ambao bila yeye kutusimuliai tusingewajua. Ni sawasawa na mimi hapa nikianza kuandika juu ya kina Saleh Khalfan, Mwalimu Salim, Mwalim Mjema, Kamanda Mandia, Mwalimu Singano, Fr. Mdoe, n.k ambao nawakumbuka katika utoto wangu huko Tanga. Ni sawa na miye nikijaribu kukumbuka jinsi tulivyokuwa tunashirikiana na ndugu zetu Waislamu kula Idi au Pasaka na hata kupika futari wakati wao wanafunga (tukiishi pamoja). NIna uhakika kila mtu anakumbukumbu zake za Wazee wakati katika mji wake. Hili ni haki kabisa na wala halina tatizo. Na katika hili kwa kweli Mzee Said kafanya jambo jema na kubwa kwani wengi wetu hatujaweza kusimuliai maisha ya wazee wetu. Kwa mfano, miye na familia yangu hatujaweza kuandika historia ya Babu yangu ambaye alikuwa ni Mchungaji wa Kwanza mweusi wa kanisa la Morovian katika Tanganyika; kuna historia hapo ya kuandika au ya mama yangu kuwa alikuwa ni miongoni mwa wanawake wa kwanza wa kwanza kupanda Mlima Kilimanjaro hadi kileleni (miaka ya sitini!! Sasa haya ni masimulizi mazuri tu. NItafanya kiburi nikianza kuwacheka kuwa bila miye kuwaambia "nyie mngejulia wapi!"! Well, masimulizi ya familia yanajulikana na wanafamilia kuyasema na nina uhakika tumesoma humu baadhi ya watu ambao nao wazazi wao wamekuwa na nafasi mbalimbali katika historia. Namfahamu memba mmoja hapa ambaye baba yake alikuwa ni ADF wa Rais Nyerere mapema baada ya Uhuru n.k Lakini hizo ni historia ambazo kila familia huenda kuwa inazo. Mzee Said kusimuliai mambo ya wazee wake na michango yake wala si tatizo kwani ndivyo tunavyofanya kumbukumbu ya wazee wetu kuishi kutoka kizazi kimoja kwenda kingine. Hata hivyo, hili si sawasawa na kusema kuwa ndiyo "historia". Kwamba ndiyo historia pekee ya kweli na hata tunapotaka kuifanya historia tunashindwa. Kwa mfano, historia haiwi historia ya kweli kwa sababu mtu kakuambia kitu fulani. Kwa mfano, mimi familia inaamini babu yangu alikuwa ni mchungaji wa kwanza mweusi wa Morovian na yeye mwenyewe alitusimuliai hivyo na jamii yetu iliamini hivyo kwa muda mrefu; lakini sijafanya utafiti wa kuthibitisha hili kwa kutumia historical method. Hili ni kweli pia kuhusu mama yangu. Kumbe naweza kuandika kama dai kwa vile nimelisikia mimi mwenyewe kutoka kwa Babu na Mama au naweza kwenda na kutafuta ushahidi na kusema ushahidi huu hapa. Sasa nikiliacha liwe ni maneno ya kusimuliwa tu basi yanabakia hivyo siwezi kuita historia! Lakini nikisema Babu yangu alikuwa ni mwenye akili kuliko wengine ndio maana alipewa nafasi ile itabidi wasomaji waniulize ushahidi; siwezi kusema 'hivyo ndivyo ninavyojua amini usiamini!"; nitaonekana mwehu na sistahili kujiita Msomi! Masimulizi ya Mzee Said kwa msingi mkubwa siyo historia kwa sababu hiyo; yanakosa historical basis. Sasa hayawi historia kwa sababu mzee SAid kasimuliwa hivyo; yanakuwa historia kwa sababu historia ina ushahidi wa hilo! Tumegusia huko nyuma juu ya utafiti wa WARSHA ambao ulianzisha madai ya Waislamu Kudhulumiwa; ni kweli wapo watu wameamini utafiti huo lakini wachache wamewahi kuhoji methodology na watu walioufanya. NI wachache wamejaribu kutaka kuona utafiti huo wausome wenyewe ili wajihakikishie kuwa unakidhi matakwa; na badala yake watu wanasema 'kwanini wewe huoni Wakristu walivyojazana kwenye serikali' na ukiuliza wamejazana vipi wanakuambia "8 kati ya 10 serikalini ni Wakristu" na ukiuliza hiyo namba umeipata vipi watu watazunguka zunguka! Nje ya shule yetu kulikuwa na bango lenye maneno ya kweli - if you think education is expensive try ignorance; wakati mwingine watu kutokana na kupenda dini zao wanakubali kuweka chembe za ubongo pembeni na hawataki kuwa critical! Sasa sijui ni tatizo la mfumo kifisadi au ni uvivu wa kuzoesha kichwa kufikiri. Lakini kama mtu anatumia vizuri uwezo aliojaliwa na Mwenyezi Mungu kufikiri hawezi kuamini masimulizi ya Mohammed Said na kuyapa hadhi ya Historia..!!
Jasusi,Umedandia treni kwa mbele treni yenyewe ya umeme.Halafu ikaweje?
Kwani pengo hana haki ya kulalamika?Ila wenye haki ya kulalamika ni mashehe tu? Leo mnaona wenye haki ya kuchinja nnchi ni waislama kwa sababu zipi? Kila raia wa nchi hii ana haki ya kulalamika katika jambo ambalo kwake anaona hana maslahi nalo kama waislam wanavyolalamikia, mou ni haki yao na pengo ni haki yake kulalamika.Mwanakijiji hapo nilipo bold pana matatizo makubwa na huo ni mtazamo wako lakini si mtazamo wa wakuu wako wa kiimani kwasababu nakumbuka mh waziri wa mambo ya nje bw Benard Membe alilipeleka hili swala bungeni na wabunge wengi wa upande wapili walipinga sana na wale waislamu waliliunga mkono huku waziri mwenye dhamana ya hilo swala akisema yeye haoini shida ya hilo swala,Nakumbuka baada ya huo mjadala mkuu wako kadinali Pengo alimlalamikia sana Membe na waziri baada ya siku kadhaa akabatilisha hiyo hoja ikafutwa sasa Mwanakijiji usishangae kuona tunasema nchi hii inaendeshwa kwa mfumo kristo.
Cdugu zangu waislam nawashauri mfanye kazi kwabidii muache kulaum hovyo tena lawama zenyewe hazina maana yeyote mnalaum kuwa nchi inaongozwa na mfumo kiristo, huku wenzenu wakiristo wakikazana ktk shughuli za kimaendeleo ndo maana nyiye mna chuo kikuu kimoja wakiristo wanavyo kibao, hosipitali kibao, shule kibao na vyote hivyo vinatoa huduma kwa wote. Tufanyeni kazi tuachane na manunguniko ya kitoto
Mohamed Said,
Naomba kukuuliza hivi ulitumia muda gani kukamilisha kazi ya kuandika kitabu chako "Maisha na Nyakati za Abdulwahid Sykes"
Mohamed Said,Umefanya kazi kubwa sana kuna mtu yeyote aliyekusaidia kwenye Faharasa.Ritz,Takriban miaka 10 au zaidi maana kulikuwa na writing and rewriting.Kazi kubwa ilochelewesha kitabu ni publishers walikuwa wanaogopayale niliyoandika.Ndipo kikenda kuchapwa Uingereza.
Mkuu nguruvi,Wewe ni kiboko kwa engo unazomweka mzee wetu ni balaa.Hapa haonewi mtu ni hoja kwa hoja, tatizo la mzee wetu asifikili anaojadiliana nao wote ni wale wa ndiyo mzee anakosea sana. we ni noma.
Ritz,
Takriban miaka 10 au zaidi maana kulikuwa na writing and rewriting.
Kazi kubwa ilochelewesha kitabu ni publishers walikuwa wanaogopa
yale niliyoandika.
Ndipo kikenda kuchapwa Uingereza.
Mwanakijiji jibu lako liko hapa soma hii:-
Even without an exhaustive review of international legal definitions of statehood, there are indications that the Holy See does not meet these criteria. According to the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States: "The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a) a permanent population; b) a defined territory; c) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."34 These four factual criteria for determining statehood are founded upon principles that have been accepted by a host of international law scholars and are consistent with the foreign laws of some nations.35 The Holy See does not satisfy this definition. Almost by definition, it does not possess a defined territory Because the Holy See is the supreme organ of government for Catholics worldwide, it cannot be said to have a "permanent population." Finally, the Holy See is itself the government of both the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican City It cannot therefore be regarded as an entity that possesses a government. The only characteristic of a modern state that is attributable to the Holy See is its capacity to enter into relations with other states. The Holy See is party to international treaties and it, rather than the Vatican City, receives foreign envoys.
Hapa kwenye wino mwekundu kunaonyesha Holy See is the one with diplomatic ties na sio Vatican state.
Since medieval times the episcopal see of Rome has been recognized as a sovereign entity. Earlier, there were papal representatives to the Emperors of Constantinople, beginning in 453, but they were not thought of as ambassadors.[SUP][2][/SUP] In the eleventh century the sending of papal representatives to princes, on a temporary or permanent mission, became frequent.[SUP][3][/SUP] In the fifteenth century it became customary for states to accredit permanent resident ambassadors to the Pope in Rome.[SUP][4][/SUP] The first permanent papal nunciature was established in 1500 in Venice. Their number grew in the course of the sixteenth century to thirteen, while internuncios (representatives of second rank) were sent to less-powerful states.[SUP][5][/SUP] After enjoying a brilliant period in the first half of the seventeenth century, papal diplomacy declined after the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, being assailed especially by royalists and Gallicans, and the number of functioning nuncios was reduced to two in the time of Napoleon, although in the same period, in 1805, Prussia became the first Protestant state to send an ambassador to Rome. There was a revival after the Congress of Vienna, which, while laying down that, in general, the order of precedence between ambassadors would be determined by the date of their arrival, allowed special precedence to be given to the nuncio, by which he would always be the dean of the diplomatic corps.[SUP][6][/SUP]
In spite of the extinction of the Papal States in 1870, and the consequent loss of territorial sovereignty, and in spite of some uncertainty among jurists as to whether it could continue to act as an independent personality in international matters, the Holy See continued in fact to exercise the right to send and receive diplomatic representatives, maintaining relations with states that included the major powers of Russia, Prussia and Austria-Hungary.[SUP][7][/SUP] Countries continued to receive nuncios as diplomatic representatives of full rank, and where, in accordance with the decision of the 1815 Congress of Vienna, the Nuncio was not only a member of the Diplomatic Corps but its Dean, this arrangement continued to be accepted by the other ambassadors.[SUP][7][/SUP]
With the First World War and its aftermath the number of states with diplomatic relations with the Holy See increased. For the first time since relations were broken between the Pope and Queen Elizabeth I of England, a British diplomatic mission to the Holy See was opened in 1914.[SUP][8][/SUP] The result was that, instead of diminishing, the number of diplomats accredited to the Holy See grew from sixteen in 1871 to twenty-seven in 1929, even before it again acquired territorial sovereignty with the founding of the State of Vatican City.[SUP][9][/SUP]
In the same period, the Holy See concluded a total of twenty-nine concordats and other agreements with states, including Austro-Hungary in 1881, Russia in 1882 and 1907, France in 1886 and 1923.[SUP][9][/SUP] Two of these concordats were registered at the League of Nations at the request of the countries involved.[SUP][10][/SUP]
While bereft of territorial sovereignty, the Holy See also accepted requests to act as arbitrator between countries, including a dispute between Germany and Spain over the Caroline Islands.[SUP][9][/SUP]
The Lateran Treaty of 1929 and the founding of the Vatican City State was not followed by any great immediate increase in the number of states with which the Holy See had official relations. This came later, especially after the Second World War.
The Holy See, as a non-state sovereign entity and full subject of international law, started establishing diplomatic relations with sovereign states in the 15th century.[SUP][12][/SUP] It had the territory of the States of the Church under its direct sovereign rule since centuries before that time. Currently it has the territory of the State of the Vatican City under its direct sovereign rule. In the period of 1870-1929 between the annexation of Rome by the Kingdom of Italy and the ratification of the Lateran Treaty establishing the current Vatican City State, the Holy See was devoid of territory. In this period some states suspended their diplomatic relations, but others retained them (or established such relations for the first time or reestablished them after a break), so that the number of states that did have diplomatic relations with the Holy See almost doubled (from 16 to 27) in the period between 1871 and 1929.[SUP][9][/SUP]
The Holy See currently has diplomatic relations with 179 sovereign states (including the partially internationally recognized Republic of China) and in addition with the sovereign entity Order of Malta and the supranational union European Union.[SUP][13][/SUP]
Na unaposema hili sio issue tunarudi kwenye maswali ya Former president Aboud Jumbe kuwa ikiwa Tanzania haina dini then why tuna uhusiano wa kibalozi na Vatican?
Kuna bwana/bibi ameniuliza swali ati nchi gani za kiislamu ambazo hazina uhusiano na Vatican labda nimtajie Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Brunei, Somalia, Oman. Pia kuna zisizo za kiislamu pia hazina mfano China, North Korea je una swali jengine?
The Holy See also has established official non-diplomatic relations "of special nature" with the Palestine Liberation Organization.[SUP][12][/SUP] By agreement with the government of Vietnam, it has a non-resident papal representative to that country.[SUP][14][/SUP] It has official formal contacts, without establishing diplomatic relations, with: Afghanistan, Brunei, Somalia, Oman, and Saudi Arabia.[SUP][15][/SUP]
Mohamed Said,Umefanya kazi kubwa sana kuna mtu yeyote aliyekusaidia kwenye Faharasa.
Mgashi,
Mimi ndiye Maalim hapa.
Mimi ndiye ninaetoa darsa.
Nasomesha.
Nguruvi anauliza maswali baada ya kunisoma.
Usisahau hilo.
Hapa nimetoa kazi nilizoandika kwa mkono wangu
zilizochapwa kwenye majarida kadhaa ndani na nje
ya Tanzania hata hesabu yake siijui.
Tulia kwenye jamvi utanijua Insha Allah.