Ukweli kuhusu waasisi wa TANU na harakati za kupigania uhuru

Mkuu Mohammed Said, huu mjadala rapidly unaelekea kukosa tija.
Mimi sikuuweka hapa, you did.
Dont climb on some imaginary higher moral ground here. Mimi sijaleta makuzi yangu na maneno ya Wachungaji wangu hapa, and in actual fact katika suala la kujadili maswala ya utaifa it will be absurd.
Nilikwisha sema tangu hapo awali hatujadili dini hapa bali huo udini wako.
Kutokana na msimamo wako wa udini mbele, utaifa nyuma ,kuelewana hapa hakuna.
So long as your line of argument ni kutetea dini yako kwanza.Usitegemee huruma yoyote toka kwa karibu nusu ya watanzania katika mada zako.
Hiyo ni licha ya uhuru wako wa kuabudu na kuamini kile unachoamini kuwa ndicho kingepaswa kuwa kihistoria, its a free world.
If you ask me , generaly what you are preaching is a farce,pure and simple. from this I will NOT back down.
Hii ni pamoja na ukweli kuwa una uhuru wa kuweka mwazo yako hapa jamvini, but if it doesn't wash utaabiwa hivyo in black and white, makuzi yako notwithstanding.
Mkuu una uhuru vile vile kuwambia watoto wenu juu ya hadithi zako, kama mimi vile vile nilivyo na uhuru wa kuwaambia watoto wangu kuwa careful na watu wa aina yako na si kujiassociate nao in public.
The moral of this rebuttal is, whither Mwalimu, we are slowly drawing the lines on the sand.
Tukiwa na hii scenario religous apartheid is not only possible but a reality to come, the question is when.

Mohamed Said,

..Balozi Sykes ana uhusiano wowote na Abdulwahid Sykes unayemzungumzia?

..pia kuna Balozi Tambwe alikuwa akituwakilisha Uganda, je ndiye huyo unayedai anafahamu mengi kuhusu mapinduzi ya Zenj?

Mohamed Said,

..umezungumzia kwamba Wamisionari wamewafundisha watu wao kudharau Waswahili. hivi unaweza kutuhakikishia kwamba wanapokuwa vyuoni, Waislamu, wanafundishwa kuwakubali wamisionari kama watu waliostaarabika, na wenye hadhi sawa na wao?

..wewe mwenyewe ktk kumuandika Mwalimu ulionyesha kumdharau kama mtu mvaa kaptura ambaye aliyekuja mjini na kuhifadhiwa na kufadhiliwa na Waswahili, wastaarabu wa Pwani.

..pia ktk video clips zako ulidai kwamba ktk kabila lako la Wamanyema hakuna Wakristo, na ulilisema jambo hilo kama vile kuwa Mkristo ni kitu dhalili au kibaya. so where was that coming from?

..kwa mtizamo wangu nadhani pande zote Waislamu na Wakristo, hakuna anayeweza kudai kwamba wanafundisha kuheshimu na ku-accomodate imani ya mwenzake. hakuna mwenye afadhali kati ya hao wawili.

NB:

..hata katika makabila, within one tribe, or btn different tribes,kuna dharau na stereotype za kila aina.

..kwa mfano: kwa miaka mingi Warombo wamekuwa wakidharauliwa na Wachaga wenzao. sasa hivi zimetoka data kwamba kati ya shule 10 bora Kilimanjaro, 5 ziko wilaya ya Rombo.

Mohamed Said said:

JK: Hiyo njama (conspiracy) aliyetueleza ni John Sivalon na van Bergen. Kanisa Katoliki walichofanya ni kuzuia hivyo vitabu visisambae. Prof. Njozi na yeye akaeleza namna Kanisa linavyofanya dhulma dhidi ya Waislam kitabu kikapigwa marufuku na serikali ya Benjamin Mkapa. Mimi si wa kwanza kueleza hiyo dhulma.

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Dokta Mohamed

Nimefuatilia thread hii kwa muda mrefu sana. Nimesoma post zote na kusikiliza DVD yako, mwanzo mpaka mwisho.
Kitu kimoja ninachokuomba, ni KUEPUKA KUINGIZA SUALA LA UDINI mara kwa mara unapofafanua au kuelezea jambo.

Umefanya kazi kubwa ,yes, as far sa huo utafiti wako ,basi ENDELEA KUELEZEA HIYO HISTORIA ILIYOPOTEA hapa jamvini pamoja na kwenye mihadhara itakayojumuisha WATU WOTE , si waislamu tu .

UNAONGEA NA KUANDIKA VITU VYA MAANA/VIKUBWA SANA,VITU MBAVYO MTU AKIACHA KUSIKILIZA HIZO HOJA ZAKO ZA UISLAMU NI VITU VINAVYOFANYA MTU MAKINI KUFIKIRI MARA MBILI AU ZAIDI, LAKINI UNAARIBU PALE UNAPOINGIZA UDINI.

Ni mtazamo wangu.

Lole Gwakisa said:

Kweli mkuu, inasikitisha lakini ingawaje si vizuri kumwita mtu mzima mwongo lakini hakuna neno bora zaidi kuelezea hali hii.

Ukitazama post no 829 ya Mohammed Said
"Nyerere hakuwa wa kurekebisha historia. Ukweli ni kuwa (Nyerere)aliposoma habari za kwanza Kleist Sykes na African Association 1929, kisha kuja kusoma habari za Abdulwahid Sykes katika King's African Rifles (KAR) Burma Infantry 6th Battalion ambayo Abdulwahid alikuwa keshawakusanya askari wa Tanganyika kuunda chama cha TANU 1945, halafu (Nyerere)alipomsoma Abdulwahid katika Dockworkers Union 1947 na harakati za kudai haki za makuli na mgomo wa 1949, kisha tena 1950 alipochukua nafasi ya baba yake Kleist Sykes ya kuwa katibu wa TAA, kuja kusoma nyaraka zake na za baba yake kwa serikali ya Muingereza kuanzia 1930s hadi 1950s inasemekana Nyerere hakuamini macho yake. Alipigwa na butwaa. Nyerere alikuwa hajamjua marehemu Abdu alikuwa nani."

Kama nilivosema awali mtu mzima aki-concoct stori na kuzileta hapa jamvini sijui tumwiteje?
Hayo maoni ya Mohammed Said kuwa Nyerere alipomsoma Abdu hakuamini macho yake, hizo hadithi za kutunga amezipata wapi sijui.Na je alimhoji Mwalimu au kahadithiwa na nani.
Hayo ndo maneno niliyokuwa naya sema ya vijiweni "Saigon".

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Mkuu Lole

Yaani kweli inashangaza sana.....................Mtu huyu MS anasema...............Inasemekana............halafu based on inasemekana.......mtu ana-conclude...................hivi huyu MS............well.......sitaki kumalizia................

JokaKuu said:

Mohamed Said,

..Balozi Sykes ana uhusiano wowote na Abdulwahid Sykes unayemzungumzia?

..pia kuna Balozi Tambwe alikuwa akituwakilisha Uganda, je ndiye huyo unayedai anafahamu mengi kuhusu mapinduzi ya Zenj?

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jokaKuu,
Balozi Sykes ni mdogo wake marehemu Abdulwahid.

LG: Kwa taarifa mimi siyo niliyoweka hizo clips hapa mimi nimeziona kama ulivyoziona wewe. Hilo la kwanza. La pili hayo maneno ninayonukuu ni maneno ya mwalimu wangu wala si mchungaji wala hayana chochote katika dini kama unavyodhani. Maalim Haruna alikuwa anatufunza adabu na jinsi ya kuingiliana na watu. Kusudi ni kuwa sisi tukue tukiwa waungwana kwa kauli zetu na matendo yetu.

Kama unaona kwangu mimi kueleza ukweli ni udini basi hiyo ni moja ya jinsi binadamu tunavyotofautiana katika mitazamo ya mambo. Katika hili sioni vibaya wala sikulaumu hii ndiyo silka ya binadamu.

Mimi naweza kuaibika ikiwa tu hulka na maneno yangu hayana ithibati. Hilo sijaliona hadi hivi sasa zaidi ya miaka 15 toka nikiandika kuhusu Islam and Politics wala sijarudishiwa "paper abstract" yangu na chuo chochote ila kitakachofuatia ni mwaliko rasmi. Hali ni hivyo kwa publishers. Nikipeleka mswada basi unakuwa kitabu. Namshukuru Mungu. Hizi si dalili ya mtu wa kufedheheshwa.

Ningeweza kukujibu zaidi lakini umetumia lugha ya Kiingereza ambayo mimi siifahamu vyema kwa bahati mbaya kwa hiyo humo sikugusa.

Salehe Tambwe aliyekuwa Balozi Uganda ni mtoto wa Mzee Tambwe wa Tabora mmoja wa waasis wa TANU Tabora. Hana uhusiano wowote na Ali Mwinyi Tambwe. Ali Mwinyi Tambwe ni Mngazija.

Wayne: Ahsante sana kwa nasaa zako. Kwanza nikutaarifu mimi si Ph D ila watu hupenda kunitania kwa cheo hicho. Sisi sio tulioingiza udini katika siasa za Tanzania. Udini uneingizwa katika siasa na Nyerere na Kanisa Katoliki. Ushahidi tunao na hili tumelisema mara nyingi. Udini umepelekea hata historia ya uhuru wa Tanganyika haitakiwi kwa kuwa tu waliohusika sana katika harakati hizo ni Waislam. Bila ya kueleza hatari za udini hivi nitaieleza vipi hali hii waliokuwanayo Waislam hali ambayo Bunge linahodhiwa 75% na Wakatoliki? Nitaeleza vipi hali hii ambayo Waislam wako nyuma kwa kila hali na juhudi zao zote za kujiletea maendeleo zinahujumiwa na serikali yenyewe? Nimeweka ushahidi mwingi wa vyuo tulivyotaka kujenga sisi wenyewe na vingine kwa msaada wa Waislam kutoka nje na vikapigwa vita na serikali. Bahati mbaya waliochangia hawakuniamini na tuliowatuhumu kwa hujuma hiyo wako kimya. Niwalelezeje wanafunzi wa Kiislam hiki kitendawli cha wao kuwa wengi shule ya msingi lakini wachache Chuo Kikuu? Niwaeleze kuwa vijana wa Kiislam nyinyi hamna akili? Tumeieleza serikali haya matatizo ya ubaguzi na haiko tayari kukubali ukweli. Sasa tunaweka msisitizo kwa kuwaeleza Waislam wenyewe waitambue hali hii. Hivi wewe ungekuwa katika hali kama hii tuliyokuwanayo Waislam ungefanya nini? Ungeweza kustahamili kuona Bunge limehodhiwa na Waislam? Fanya tafakari, fanya uchunguzi kwa haya nisemayo, uliza Wakubwa ukipata jibu nifahamishe wamesema nini. Sisi tulipojaribu kueleza ukweli katika kitabu "Mwembechai Killings," serikali ikakifungia kitabu. Ikawa kosa la kumpeleka mtu jela kwa kuwanacho. Ni sedition. Hii ndiyo hali ya Waislam wa Tanzania. Hata ile fursa ya kuitanabaisha serikali hatari inayokabili nchi haitakiwi ili mradi asemae ni Muislam.

Mohammed,
Umefanya utafiti gani na lini kubaini kuwa bunge letu ni 75% Wakatoliki?

JASUSI: Ahsante kwa swali kipande hiki kinatoka kwenye mswada wa kitabu chango (forth coming). Itabidi na wewe uupinde mgongo ufanye utafiti ikiwa hukubaliani na utafiti wangu. Ukienda Statistical Bureau kutaka takwimu hizo hutapata:

Christians having being privileged by successive governments beginning with Julius Nyerere to Ali Hassan Mwinyi found themselves in situation where they controlled the government and all its institutions.

In the Union Parliament (comprising members from Tanganyika and Zanzibar) out of a total of 168 seats for the Mainland, Muslims occupied 41 seats (24.4%). 55 separate seats were held by Zanzibar, which is predominantly Muslim. Among cabinet ministers in the government, only 4 were Muslims (22.2%). Among 12 Junior Ministers, 2 were Muslims. Among 19 principal Secretaries in the government 3 were Muslims. Among 20 Regional Commissioners in the government only 5 were Muslims (25%). Among 118 District Commissioners only 8 were Muslims (6%).

Among them were thirteen political parties, non‑government organisations (NGOs) and the mass media both state owned and private. Thirteen political parties were registered almost all of them with Christian leadership with the exception of United Movement for Democracy (UMD) which was led by Chief Abdallah Said Fundikira, a Chief of the Nyanyembe and one time Nyerere's adversary. These political parties did not make any effort to try to understand the current religious tension, or come to terms with Muslims. The only matter they were interested in was to attract Muslim support because in Tanzania no party can win election without Muslim support. All those parties including the ruling party CCM, knew it would be the vital Muslim vote which would decide whom and which party forms the next government.

Ogah: Hapana haja ya sisi kubeba mlima. Ikiwa hili mnashaka na hilo tatzio la Nyerere kushtushwa na yale aliyosoma kuhusu harakati kabla yeye hajafika Dar es Salaam basi na tuliache hilo tujadili mengine.

Nimeweka mengi humu hebu nipeni maoni yenu katika hayo. Nimeeleza kuhusu hali ya siasa kama ilivyokuwa Makao Makuu ya TAA pale New Street Dar es Salaam ya 1950. Je hamna kitu cha kuzungumza katika yale yote?

Mohamed Said said:

JASUSI: Ahsante kwa swali kipande hiki kinatoka kwenye mswada wa kitabu chango (forth coming). Itabidi na wewe uupinde mgongo ufanye utafiti ikiwa hukubaliani na utafiti wangu. Ukienda Statistical Bureau kutaka takwimu hizo hutapata:

Christians having being privileged by successive governments beginning with Julius Nyerere to Ali Hassan Mwinyi found themselves in situation where they controlled the government and all its institutions.

In the Union Parliament (comprising members from Tanganyika and Zanzibar) out of a total of 168 seats for the Mainland, Muslims occupied 41 seats (24.4%). 55 separate seats were held by Zanzibar, which is predominantly Muslim. Among cabinet ministers in the government, only 4 were Muslims (22.2%). Among 12 Junior Ministers, 2 were Muslims. Among 19 principal Secretaries in the government 3 were Muslims. Among 20 Regional Commissioners in the government only 5 were Muslims (25%). Among 118 District Commissioners only 8 were Muslims (6%).

Among them were thirteen political parties, non‑government organisations (NGOs) and the mass media both state owned and private. Thirteen political parties were registered almost all of them with Christian leadership with the exception of United Movement for Democracy (UMD) which was led by Chief Abdallah Said Fundikira, a Chief of the Nyanyembe and one time Nyerere's adversary. These political parties did not make any effort to try to understand the current religious tension, or come to terms with Muslims. The only matter they were interested in was to attract Muslim support because in Tanzania no party can win election without Muslim support. All those parties including the ruling party CCM, knew it would be the vital Muslim vote which would decide whom and which party forms the next government.

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Mohammed,'
Mbona hizi figures za zamani. Mimi napendelea zaidi takwim za bunge letu leo lenye viti karibia mia tatu. Kuna Waislamu wangapi na Wakristo wangapi? Na katika serikali ya Kikwete, kuna Waislamu wangapi na Wakristo wangapi katika ngazi zote za uongozi?

JK: katika mila zetu Waswahili wanaume hawasutani. Lakini hili la kusema kuwa mimi nimeonyesha dharau kwa Mwalimu kwa ajili ya kuvaa kaptura hilo sijawahi kufanya popote. Kama una ushahidi basi utoe ukumbini.

Baba yangu akivaa kaptula akienda kazini. Marehemu Abduwahid ofisi yake ilikuwa pale Kariakoo Market akivaa kaptula na stockings akienda kazini.

Wala sijasimanga popote. Kama una ushahidi utoe ukumbini. Nimesema katika Wamanyema hakuna Mkristo huo ni ukweli wala sijasema kwa kudharau.

Hilo la Wamishonari uhusiano wao na Waislam swali hilo lielekeze kwa Wamishionari wenyewe watakupa jibu walipokewa vipi na Waislam. Fr Peter Smith wa Roman Catholic Church alikuwa pale Tabora kwa miaka mingi sana. Sasa karudi kwao Uingereza nenda Attman House, Dar es Salaam wakupe email yake na muulize alikuwa na uhsiano gani na wazee wa Tabora.

Muhimu nitakualeza kuwa Uislam unakataza kibri hiyo ni sifa yake Allah na ni kilemba anachiokivaa yeye Mungu.

Yoyote atakaekuwa na chembe ya kibri katika nafsi yake atamtia motoni. Hii ni ahadi ya Allah. Kibri hupelekea dharau. Haya ndiyo mafunzo yetu.

Tatizo ni kuwa wengi hatujui mafunzo ya Uislam na matokeo yake ndiyo haya tunasema kinyume na ukweli ulivyo.

Jasusi: Waonaje kama safari hii ikawa zamu yako kufanya utafiti?

Mohamed Said said:

Jasusi: Waonaje kama safari hii ikawa zamu yako kufanya utafiti?

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Mohammed,
Ningependa kufanya utafiti huo, lakini kwa sasa niko Marekani. Nitakaporudi Bongo, inshallah, nitajitahidi. Lakini naamini idadi ya Waislamu katika bunge letu na kwenye serikali ya Kikwete imeongezeka sana kulinganisha na takwim ulizotupa wewe. Tanzania haijabakia static, na pale inapopiga hatua inapaswa kusifiwa.

Mohamed Said said:

Ogah: Hapana haja ya sisi kubeba mlima. Ikiwa hili mnashaka na hilo tatzio la Nyerere kushtushwa na yale aliyosoma kuhusu harakati kabla yeye hajafika Dar es Salaam basi na tuliache hilo tujadili mengine.

Nimeweka mengi humu hebu nipeni maoni yenu katika hayo. Nimeeleza kuhusu hali ya siasa kama ilivyokuwa Makao Makuu ya TAA pale New Street Dar es Salaam ya 1950. Je hamna kitu cha kuzungumza katika yale yote?

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Mkuu Mohamed Said,

Hakuna anayekataa kuwa kazi uliyoifanya kurekebisha historia ya nchi yetu ni nzuri..............unapochnaganya na hisia za udini na ku-draw conclusion......ndipo linapokuja tatizo................unajua hata kama unaelezea yale yaliyokweli yatabaki kuwa kweli.......hata siku moja haitabadilika..............fahari yangu juu yako inatia shaka/doa pale unapo-include udini............na some of your conclusions based on 'inasemekana"............yaani mahitimisho yaliyojaa HISIA tena zilizo tawaliwa na dini...............hapo ndipo unapotia doa.............In devil's advocate terms..............

Ogah said:

Mkuu Mohamed Said,

Hakuna anayekataa kuwa kazi uliyoifanya kurekebisha historia ya nchi yetu ni nzuri..............unapochnaganya na hisia za udini na ku-draw conclusion......ndipo linapokuja tatizo................unajua hata kama unaelezea yale yaliyokweli yatabaki kuwa kweli.......hata siku moja haitabadilika..............fahari yangu juu yako inatia shaka/doa pale unapo-include udini............na some of your conclusions based on 'inasemekana"............yaani mahitimisho yaliyojaa HISIA tena zilizo tawaliwa na dini...............hapo ndipo unapotia doa.............In devil's advocate terms..............

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Ogah: Tuko sote.

Jasusi: Ahsante kwa salamu zako.

Ogah said:

Mkuu Lole

Yaani kweli inashangaza sana.....................Mtu huyu MS anasema...............Inasemekana............halafu based on inasemekana.......mtu ana-conclude...................hivi huyu MS............well.......sitaki kumalizia................

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Mkuu Ogah
Nashukuru kwa keen observers kama wewe kunote the minute details za argument ya ndugu yetu Mohammed Said.
Nasema ndugu yetu maana mimi bado nina imani na umoja wa Taifa hili.
Maelezo yake karibu yote yako based on hearsay,hisia na unproven allegations.
Mara kadhaa nimem-confront ndugu yetu kutoa specific answers on specifis allegations kutokana na matamshi yake.Mara zote amekuwa akikwepa na kukimbilia mawahidha ya masheikh wake kuwa walimuonya kadhaaa wa kadhaa.
Nakubaliana na wewe Mkuu kuwa YOU CANNOT DRAW CONCLUSIONS FRON INCONCLUSIVE OPINIONS.
Bahati yake mbaya sana Ndugu Mohammed Said, mimi ni mwanasayansi wa vitendo and I dont thrive on unproven facts.
Mara zote nilizo mchallenge kuleta uthibitisho wa maoni yake amekuwa akikwepa na kuleta hadithi ndeefu za kukata na shoka.
Kwa kifupi anapostahili ndugu yetu ni msikitini, huko hatumgusi.