Ukweli ni upi kuhusu Oscar Kambona?

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Nifafanulie kidogo hapo... ukiondoa obvious differences.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mkuu Nyani,

Heshima mbele, I like kila ulichosema so far kwenye hii topic, now ngoja tujairbu kuchambua kidogo:-

1. After the mutiny, differences between Kambona and Nyerere began to appear. Nyerere wanted to introduce a one party system into Tanzania to strengthen state security. Kambona argued against the move claiming that it would inhibit people’s freedom and progress towards democracy. However, Kambona was defeated in parliament. He refused to sign the bill.

I mean right here, ndipo mambo yetu yalipoanza kwenda mrama as a nation, na ndio ninayoyasema kila siku, kumbuka kuwa to this point tulikuwa on the right track, kuaniza uchumi, uongozi, mpaka siasa, now look at the turn of events ambazo eventually, ndio zilizotufikisha tulipo!

2. In 1967 after a trip to China in 1965, Nyerere impressed with Mao’s style of communism, wanted to adopt the same system under the guise of Ujamaa. The main doctrine behind Ujamaa was the relocation of peasants into village communes and the nationalization of all industries and property. Kambona did not agree with the policies, arguing that they would rather increase poverty and state control over the people. He resigned from the Government and the party and later with his family fled to neighbouring Kenya and then UK were he was granted political asylum.

Tizama kiongozi aliyekuwa na uwezo wa kuona mbali, exactly his argument then ndio hasa yalipolalia matatizo yetu, kumbe walikuwepo wenye akili ya kuona mbele, I mean this is very interesting story, pumba na mchele uko clear upande gani?

3. Immediately thereafter, Kambona’s properties were confiscated. His two brothers Mattiya and Ottini Kambona were detained without trial and put in prison for over ten years. Other family members were harassed and detained. Some were falsely accused of plotting to overthrow the Tanzanian Government and were tried and imprisoned by the Government.

Wooow! Yaaani kweli haya mambo yalifanyika bongo under Mwalimu?

4. Most famous of these were Bibi Titi who fought alongside Nyerere in the independence movement and was head of the woman’s wing and also Michael Kamaliza, the former trade unionist and TANU member and government Minister. Other family members included Gray Mattaka, John and Elia Chipaka and Prisca Chiombola. Kambona was also accused of being the ring leader of the plotters while in London and was tried in absentia. The accused finally appealed to the East African High Court and were acquitted. Though they were later rounded up by the Tanzanian government and thrown into jail again.

5. Kambona was also accused of stealing millions of public funds,

6. Kambona challenged the Tanzanian government to request the Kenyan authorities to ’substantiate the allegations’’ which they never did.

7. In London Kambona led a tough life in exile under considerable financial constraints. However in 1982, his two brothers Mattiya and Otini Kambona were eventually released from detention after the intervention of New Zealand Prime Minister Robert Muldoon.


8. On returning to Tanzania Kambona found that the progress towards democracy was disappointingly slow.


9. His eldest son Mosi Kambona was murdered in London in unexplained circumstances.

Sasa wakuu wangu bado kuna maswali kwamba kwa nini as a nation tupo hapa tulipo? Maana kwanga naona majibu yako clear hapa, kama kuna story ya upande wa pili tungekuwa tumeshaisikia, na pia tuliambiwa Kambona amekimbia Azimio La Arusha, lakini hapa ukweli unajionyesha wazi, au labda tusubiri na upande wa pili ulete yao pia, otherwise I am convinced kuwa huu ndio ukweli wenyewe wa kwa nini taifa letu limekwama!

Ahsante Mtoa Mada, yaanai you made my day!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Ufafanuzi kwa Mwanakijiji:

Mbona kila kitu kipo dhahiri kabisa hapo.

Amin alikuwa dikteta. Kaua watu sio tu kwa kutoa amri bali hata kwa mikono yake mwenyewe. His crimes were crimes against humanity, no question about it. Ni Waganda wangapi aliwaulia ndugu zao? Sasa baada ya kutimuliwa madarakani alitegemea nini ukizingatia yote aliyoyatenda...kwamba watu wangekaa na kucheka na kunywa naye kahawa na kumsamehe? Kama watu waliokosewa wakitaka haki itendeke kwa aliyewatendea makosa wakati kila kitu kipo dhahiri kabisa na huyo mtendaji makosa anasema eti wanamnyanyasa then that is beyond me!! I can't explain that. Halafu ikitokea nchi ikampa hifadhi hapo ndo kabisaaa sina hata la kusema nitabaki kutikisa kichwa na kuwashangaa hao wenyeji wake wapya kama kweli wana mioyo na ni binadamu.

Upande wa Kambona...yeye alitofautiana kiitikadi tu na mkuu wa nchi almost soon after the mutiny. Sasa unatofautiana na mkuu wa nchi aliyeponea chupuchupu kupinduliwa na bado yuko paranoid...mali zako zinataifishwa.....watu (pamoja na ndugu zake wawili)wanaanza kukamatwa na kuwekwa kizuizini...wewe kama una akili utaendelea kuzubaa zubaa kweli...? Si utakimbia ukihofia maisha yako...?

Kati ya hao wawili wakikujia na kukuambia wananyanyaswa na wanaomba uwape hifadhi: which one are you more inclined to believe knowing their history and what they've done??

 

[William J. Malecela]

Upande wa Kambona...yeye alitofautiana kiitikadi tu na mkuu wa nchi almost soon after the mutiny. Sasa unatofautiana na mkuu wa nchi aliyeponea chupuchupu kupinduliwa na bado yuko paranoid...mali zako zinataifishwa.....watu (pamoja na ndugu zake wawili)wanaanza kukamatwa na kuwekwa kizuizini...wewe kama una akili utaendelea kuzubaa zubaa kweli...? Si utakimbia ukihofia maisha yako...?

Mkuu Nyani,

Uchambuzi ni safi sana, ila tu the big picture hapa ni kwamba mpaka leo bado we are paying for hiyo paranoid ya marehemu, maana kwenye hiyo mutiny ilikuwa ndio njia panda yenyewe iliyotufikisha hapa, ukweli ni kwamba Kambona, alikuwa on the right side ambayo sasa hivi tunajaribu kuitafuta as a nation, lakini hatuioni, maana hata time haiko upande wetu tena!

 

[Kafara]

Ufafanuzi kwa Mwanakijiji:

Upande wa Kambona...yeye alitofautiana kiitikadi tu na mkuu wa nchi almost soon after the mutiny. Sasa unatofautiana na mkuu wa nchi aliyeponea chupuchupu kupinduliwa na bado yuko paranoid...mali zako zinataifishwa.....watu (pamoja na ndugu zake wawili)wanaanza kukamatwa na kuwekwa kizuizini...wewe kama una akili utaendelea kuzubaa zubaa kweli...? Si utakimbia ukihofia maisha yako...?

Wakuu, nyani ngabu na fmes shukurani kwa hoja zenu. Kwa kuongezea tu waliowekwa kizuizini sio ottini na mattiya tu
bali hata binamu za kambona na watu wengine wa kabila lake.
kipindi hicho watu walianza kuficha hata kabila kwa kuogopa kutiwa ndani. jina la kambona likawa demonized kwenye nyimbo za mchakamchaka nk. jamani angalau historia imkumbuke kwa mchango na msimamo wake.

 

[Kafara]

very interesting... Kawawa bado yuko hai aulizwe...

nasikia mzee kambona na mzee kawawa walikuwa hawapatani

 

[William J. Malecela]

nasikia mzee kambona na mzee kawawa walikuwa hawapatani

Kutopatana kwao ilikuwa ni mbinu tu za Mwalimu, kumuumiza roho Kambona kisiasa kwa kujifanya anamuamini sana Kawawa, zaidi ya Kambona ambaye kama history inavyosema hapa alipaswa kuwa the right hand man wake na trusted man, na confidant,

Kwa hiyo hata kabla Kambona hajaondoka, tayari kulikuwa na mbegu mbaya zilizopandwa na Mwalimu, against Kambona, ambaye according to wazee wa zamani, hakuwa na hiana kabisaa zaidi ya kuweka taifa mbele, ukweli ni kwamba ni yeye ndiye aliyewatengenezea njia viongozi wengi ambao baadaye walikuja kuwa waadilifu wa taifa, ukilinganisha na wale wa Mwalimu, kina Mkapa!

Again heshima kwa hiki kipande cha historia ingawa ni kifupi sana, lakini kina mambo mapana sana kwa taifa letu!

 

[tz_devil]

Mzee FMES,

Sina maana ya kwenda nje ya mada lakini nikiunganisha vinukta pia ninaona chanzo cha chuki ya Mwalimu dhidi ya Mzee Malecela.

Ama kweli kwenye giza ukipenyeza mwanga giza hujitenga.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Sina maana ya kwenda nje ya mada lakini nikiunganisha vinukta pia ninaona chanzo cha chuki ya Mwalimu dhidi ya Mzee Malecela.
Ama kweli kwenye giza ukipenyeza mwanga giza hujitenga.

Mkuu haya tulishayasema siku nyingi, sasa historia inakuja kutu-vindicate, mkuu wangu tukae mkao wa kula maana mengi yanakuja hadaharani, siku moja itakuja kuwa aibu kubwa sana!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mzee, historia inategemea nani anaisimulia... mzee mambo yote yaliyosemwa hapo yametokana na simulizi. Sasa kabla hatujaanza kuruka ruka kuwa we found "it" ni vizuri kujiuliza.

a. Msimulizi ana lengo lolote jingine la kutusimulia anachotusimulia?
b. Msimulizi anahusika vipi katika kisa anachosimulia (is he a hero or the anti hero "villain")?
c. Je, msimulizi ananufaika vipi na masimulizi anayoyasimulia?
d. Katika kisa cha historia je kuna watu wengine wanaoweza kutupa masimulizi yanayolingana na msimulizi huyo na watu hao wako huru kiasi gani? Nitakupa mfano wa Injili za Yesu. Hadi miaka kadhaa baada ya Ukristu kutoka ushahidi mkubwa wa maisha ya Yesu ni maandishi ya Wafuasi wake. Mpaka pale maandishi ya Josephus Myahudi toka Roma (contemporary wa Yesu) ndiyo wana historia wanapata picha ya maisha ya Yesu. HIvyo maandishi ya Marko, Mathayo, Luka na Yohana ni mazuri kwa wafuasi lakini kwa wasomi we need outside source.

na yapo maswali mengine.

Sasa kwenye suala hili kuna watu ambao binafsi kabla sijaamua kushangilia au kushangaa, kuona kuwa stori imefika au inaendelea ningependa kuwasikia wale waliopo... Ni kina nani waliosalia ambao wanaweza kutueleza kuhusu historia yetu ya mwanzoni? Je, Kawawa ni reliable source wa matukio ya awali ya historia yetu..?

 

[Kafara]

mzee historia inategemea nani anaisimulia... mzee mambo yote yaliyosemwa hapo yametokana na simulizi. Sasa kabla hatujaanza kuruka ruka kuwa we found "it" ni vizuri kujiuliza.

nadahani unafahamu vizuri tuu kwamba sehemu kubwa historia ya nchi yetu kuanzia mapambano ya uhuru hadi sasa ambayo inakinzana na fikra za wale waliopo madarakani (sizungumzii mambo ya vyama bali watu)mpaka sasa kwa kiasi kikubwa inabakia simulizi. hivyo haya yaliyo simulizi huenda yakakumbukwa na muda ukifika yatawekwa kwenye kumbukumbu za uhakika za historia ya nchi yetu.

a. Msimulizi ana lengo lolote jingine la kutusimulia anachotusimulia?

napenda kuamini kwamba msimulizi anania ya kuweka wazi kipande cha historia kuhusu mzee kambona ambacho mpaka sasa kimekuwa hakisimiliwa. nadhani hata kichwa chake cha habari kinaashiria hivyo

b. Msimulizi anahusika vipi katika kisa anachosimulia (is he a hero or the anti hero "villain")?

swali zuri. bahati mbaya simfahamu msimulizi labda wale wanaomfahamu wanaweza kutuchambulia hili

c. Je, msimulizi ananufaika vipi na masimulizi anayoyasimulia?"

huenda nia kubwa ya msimulizi ni kuweka wazi aliyoyasimulia kwa faida ya vizazi vijavyo

d. Katika kisa cha historia je kuna watu wengine wanaoweza kutupa masimulizi yanayolingana na msimulizi huyo na watu hao wako huru kiasi gani? Nitakupa mfano wa Injili za Yesu. Hadi miaka kadhaa baada ya Ukristu kutoka ushahidi mkubwa wa maisha ya Yesu ni maandishi ya Wafuasi wake. Mpaka pale maandishi ya Josephus Myahudi toka Roma (contemporary wa Yesu) ndiyo wana historia wanapata picha ya maisha ya Yesu. HIvyo maandishi ya Marko, Mathayo, Luka na Yohana ni mazuri kwa wafuasi lakini kwa wasomi we need outside source.

nadhani ungehudhuria misa ya leo ungewaona watu kadhaa ambao wangekupa simulizi inayofanana na simulizi ya msimuliaji. bahati mbaya sikuwepo kwenye misa. naamini ukifanya utafiti kiasi utawapata wazee ambao walikumbwa na dhahali la kuwekwa kizuizini ingawa namba yao inapungua kwa kasi. je yawezekana kuwa maandishi ya marko, mathayo na luka katika mfano wako yakawa simulizi zilizopo za kambona kukimbia azimio la arusha na hii simulizi mpya ikawa ndio outside source mnayohitaji wasomi?

na yapo maswali mengine.

Sasa kwenye suala hili kuna watu ambao binafsi kabla sijaamua kushangilia au kushangaa, kuona kuwa stori imefika au inaendelea ningependa kuwasikia wale waliopo... Ni kina nani waliosalia ambao wanaweza kutueleza kuhusu historia yetu ya mwanzoni? Je, Kawawa ni reliable source wa matukio ya awali ya historia yetu..?

kama alivyosema fmes yapo mengi yanakuja kuhusu hitoria ya nchi yetu na siasa zake.

 

[William J. Malecela]

1. mzee historia inategemea nani anaisimulia... mzee mambo yote yaliyosemwa hapo yametokana na simulizi. Sasa kabla hatujaanza kuruka ruka kuwa we found "it" ni vizuri kujiuliza.
a. Msimulizi ana lengo lolote jingine la kutusimulia anachotusimulia? b. Msimulizi anahusika vipi katika kisa anachosimulia (is he a hero or the anti hero "villain")?
c. Je, msimulizi ananufaika vipi na masimulizi anayoyasimulia?
d. Katika kisa cha historia je kuna watu wengine wanaoweza kutupa masimulizi yanayolingana na msimulizi huyo na watu hao wako huru kiasi gani?

2. lakini kwa wasomi we need outside source.

3. Je, Kawawa ni reliable source wa matukio ya awali ya historia yetu..?


Mkuu Heshima mbele, basically historia duniani huandikwa na walioko kwenye power, Mwalimu na kina Kawawa, wameandika ya kutosha kuhusiana na ishu ya Kambona, toka tukiwa watoto, sasa hii ni kwa mara ya kwanza tunapata story kutoka the other side, binafsi sihitaji kuambiwa anymore kuhusu Kambona, maana nimeiamba toka primary school jinsi alivyokuwa malaya na kukimbilia Uk, secondary, JKT, vyuoni nimeimba vya kutosha story ya Kambona kutoka kwa side ya Mwalimu,

Nimekutana na viongozi wengi waliosoma na Kambona, kama kina Lusinde, Marehemu Kanyama, Hashim Mbita, Nyirenda, nimeongea na waliofanya kazi naye kwenye siasa, imetosha, yanayosemwa sasa ndio hasa ya upande wake, Mwalimu pia aliwahi kusema baadhi yake, kama vile Kambona kuondoka na masanduku ya pesa nyingi sana alizokamtwa nazo Nairobi, airport, na akasema kuwa askari wa Kenya walipomuuliza what to do na Kambona, Mwalimu akaawambia kuwa wamuachie aende zake, sasa leo tunaambiwa kuwa ulikuwa ni uongo maana na yeye aliwataka serikali watoe ushidhi toka kwa askari wa Kenya, lakini hakuna kitu,

Sasa cha muhimu hapa kwenye ishu kama hizi ni kukubaliana kutokubaliaana, maana ya kumsubiri Kawawa eti aje aweke hii habari sawa hayo mimi simo, the main point yako kama ninakuelewa ni the motive za waanaoandika hizi story, which is great argument ila unachosahau ni kuwa it works both ways, yaani upande wa Kambona na Mwalimu!

Otherwise, I am enjoying this yaani to the bottom of my soul!

 

[Keil]

Mzee FMES,

Yaani unategemea upate upande wa pili wa shilingi? Huo upande wa pili hauwezi kukupatia hizo details. Swali unalotakiwa kujiuliza ni moja, je ni kwanini hizi news hazikujulikana kabla Baba wa Taifa hajafariki? Je, kulikuwa na juhudi za makusudi kabisa za kutochapisha makala kama hizi? Tuliosoma shule miaka ya 1970s na 1980s tulikuwa tukikimbia mchaka mchaka tukiimba kwamba, "Kambona ameolewa Uingereza"! Leo tukisoma news kama hizi zinatufanya tufikirie mara mbili kwamba hivi wakati ule tukiimba hizo nyimbo za mchakamchaka shule za msingi, sekondari mpaka JKT tulikuwa tunaelewa kweli? Au tulikaririshwa na siasa za JK Nyerere?

Inauma na inasikitisha sana unapofunguliwa macho na kuona ukweli halisi, hasa baada ya kuishi gizani kwa miaka zaidi ya 30 au 40! Anyway, hizo ndiyo siasa za Tanzania na ukifuatilia sana unaweza kukosa imani na siasa za Bongo na kuhisi kwamba kila mwanasiasa ana mchezo mchafu na tena mbaya sana ambao akiamua kukumaliza na kuchafua jina lako anakumaliza kwa dakika chache na hasa kama ameshikilia vyombo vya habari na dola pia!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

mzee historia inategemea nani anaisimulia... mzee mambo yote yaliyosemwa hapo yametokana na simulizi. Sasa kabla hatujaanza kuruka ruka kuwa we found "it" ni vizuri kujiuliza.

a. Msimulizi ana lengo lolote jingine la kutusimulia anachotusimulia?
b. Msimulizi anahusika vipi katika kisa anachosimulia (is he a hero or the anti hero "villain")?
c. Je, msimulizi ananufaika vipi na masimulizi anayoyasimulia?
d. Katika kisa cha historia je kuna watu wengine wanaoweza kutupa masimulizi yanayolingana na msimulizi huyo na watu hao wako huru kiasi gani? Nitakupa mfano wa Injili za Yesu. Hadi miaka kadhaa baada ya Ukristu kutoka ushahidi mkubwa wa maisha ya Yesu ni maandishi ya Wafuasi wake. Mpaka pale maandishi ya Josephus Myahudi toka Roma (contemporary wa Yesu) ndiyo wana historia wanapata picha ya maisha ya Yesu. HIvyo maandishi ya Marko, Mathayo, Luka na Yohana ni mazuri kwa wafuasi lakini kwa wasomi we need outside source.

na yapo maswali mengine.

Sasa kwenye suala hili kuna watu ambao binafsi kabla sijaamua kushangilia au kushangaa, kuona kuwa stori imefika au inaendelea ningependa kuwasikia wale waliopo... Ni kina nani waliosalia ambao wanaweza kutueleza kuhusu historia yetu ya mwanzoni? Je, Kawawa ni reliable source wa matukio ya awali ya historia yetu..?

Mzee tujadili mada iliyopo hapa. Haya mambo ya falsafa ya injili yanahusiana vipi na hii mada..? Kama masimulizi basi tumeyasikia mengi mno kuhusu Kambona na yalikuwa ni ya upande mmoja na watu waliimba (au waliimbishwa) nyimbo na kukaririshwa ngonjera. Sasa upande wa pili umetoa masimulizi yake kidogo na watu wameanza kupata mwanga kidogo kuhusu yale yaliyojiri. Kina Marko, Luka, na Mathayo hawahusiki na Kambona bana...

 

[William J. Malecela]

1. Inauma na inasikitisha sana unapofunguliwa macho na kuona ukweli halisi, hasa baada ya kuishi gizani kwa miaka zaidi ya 30 au 40!


2. tumeyasikia mengi mno kuhusu Kambona na yalikuwa ni ya upande mmoja na watu waliimba (au waliimbishwa) nyimbo na kukaririshwa ngonjera. Sasa upande wa pili umetoa masimulizi yake kidogo na watu wameanza kupata mwanga kidogo kuhusu yale yaliyojiri. Kina Marko, Luka, na Mathayo hawahusiki na Kambona bana...

I mean wakuu heshima mbele, hamna cha kuongeza nia ninasema kuwa huu ni mwanzo tu wa ukweli kuanza kutoka hadharani, Mwalimu was the greatest, lakini pia alikuwa na mapungufu, ambayo eventually yamekuwa our worst national nightmare!

 

[William J. Malecela]

In 1967 after a trip to China in 1965, Nyerere impressed with Mao's style of communism, wanted to adopt the same system under the guise of Ujamaa.

The main doctrine behind Ujamaa was the relocation of peasants into village communes and the nationalization of all industries and property. Kambona did not agree with the policies, arguing that they would rather increase poverty and state control over the people.

He resigned from the Government and the party and later with his family fled to neighbouring Kenya and then UK were he was granted political asylum.

Mungu Ibariki Bongo Yetu!

 

[Interested Observer]

Mmmmm! Very interesting! Tunaanza kugundua haya uzeeni! In short:
1. Nyerere hakupenda critical people Example Kambona
2. Hakupenda Watu wenye Elimu kubwa (Maono ya mbali), ndiyo maana alimpendelea kawawa, because he was a Yes man
3. Hakupenda popular people, from what i see on his problems with JM
Kumbuka, wakati wa kumuaga Kawawa Nyerere alitoa hutuba ndefu ya kumsifia kawawa kuwa ndiyo alibeba lawama zake nyingi mno! He dropped tears (Nyerere)!
I want to learn from this forum!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Kwa hili mimi sina authority yoyote. Nyinyi kama mimi niliiamba na kucheza mchakamchaka; najua jinsi gani kuna watu ambao waliimbwa vibaya (mwingine ni Mohammed Babu). Nimezisikia hizi habari za "upande wa pili" vile vile. I'll tell you what, mimi ni mwanafunzi mzuri wa historia nawasikiliza lakini ninapima kauli zote kwa umakini sana na mwitikio wangu siyo wa kihisia (not an emotional response) bali zaidi wa kiakili (intellectual response). So, wana ndugu endeleeni kujadili nami nafuatilia nikijifunza mengi na nikiuliza mengi bila kukubali kwa haraka.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Nadhani hapa wengi wanachotaka ni balanced account of what happened halafu wataamua wenyewe. Sawa, emotions zipo lakini haina maana miitikio yetu siyo ya kiakili pia(at least baadhi yetu). Na emotional responses zipo ktk pande zote. Na ni ktk kujadili huku ndio sote twaweza kujifunza kitu. Bila mjadala then kutakuwa hakuna la kujifunza na kama ujuavyo ktk mijadala si tu kuna pande mbili. Saa ingine kunakuwa na pande hata tano au sita na watu wataamini watakacho kuamini na wengine watahukumu hata kama ushahidi hautoshi. Zama za upande mmoja tu wa hadithi zimeisha. Tusikie pande zote halafu tutapembua pumba na mchele baadae wenyewe. Ndio democratic values zenyewe hizo...

 

[Interested Observer]

Kwa hili mimi sina authority yoyote. Nyinyi kama mimi niliiamba na kucheza mchakamchaka; najua jinsi gani kuna watu ambao waliimbwa vibaya (mwingine ni Mohammed Babu). Nimezisikia hizi habari za "upande wa pili" vile vile. I'll tell you what, mimi ni mwanafunzi mzuri wa historia nawasikiliza lakini ninapima kauli zote kwa umakini sana na mwitikio wangu siyo wa kihisia (not an emotional response) bali zaidi wa kiakili (intellectual response). So, wana ndugu endeleeni kujadili nami nafuatilia nikijifunza mengi na nikiuliza mengi bila kukubali kwa haraka.

From the string of your reasoning i am seeing you're more emotional than the other side!