Untapped: The Scramble for Africas Oil

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Kuna kipindi Kenya walikuwa wanajitapa kwa kuwa na uchumi mzuri Afrika Mashariki na kati kwa sababu wakoloni waliijenga Kenya kuliko nchi zingne za eneo hilo. Sasa kwa nini wajitapie kurithi uchumi au misingi mizuri ya uchumi waliyorithi kama kila kitu cha wakoloni kilikuwa kibaya?

Zimbabwe kuna kipindi ilikuwa ni nchi yenye moja ya chumi nzuri Afrika. Mugabe alirithi nchi iliyokuwa na uchumi uliokuwa imara. Angalia sasa alivyoharibu. Nakumbuka wakati niko dogo kwenda Zimbabwe ilikuwa kama vile kwenda kiwanja. Sasa linganisha hali waliyonayo sasa na hali iliyokuwepo mwaka 80,81,82,83,84.....

Kwani how long did it take for Zimbabwe's economy to fall? It started to do so at around 1998/99. Zimbabwe has been independent since 1980. So why did the economy manage to stay well all this time? The reason Zimbabwe's economy went down is because of Mugabe's land reform which took land from whites which angered the West and we all know the West imposed a sanction on Zimbabwe.

Indeed, it is true that each one of these often cited factors has contributed, or provides an explanation to Zimbabwe’s current economic problems. However, western countries and media almost collectively ignore one other significant factor responsible for the country’s economic collapse: economic sanctions imposed by the US, the EU, and Australia against Zimbabwe.
source: Economic sanctions undermine Zimbabwe's economy

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kwani how long did it take for Zimbabwe's economy to fall? It started to do so at around 1998/99. Zimbabwe has been independent since 1980. So why did the economy manage to stay well all this time? The reason Zimbabwe's economy went down is because of Mugabe's land reform which took land from whites which angered the West and we all know the West imposed a sanction on Zimbabwe.

Indeed, it is true that each one of these often cited factors has contributed, or provides an explanation to Zimbabwe’s current economic problems. However, western countries and media almost collectively ignore one other significant factor responsible for the country’s economic collapse: economic sanctions imposed by the US, the EU, and Australia against Zimbabwe.
source: Economic sanctions undermine Zimbabwe's economy

Kwa hiyo watu wa West (wakoloni) wakikuwekea vikwazo wewe ndio ulie tu.. Afrika hawakuiwekea vikwazo Zimbabwe...damn those colonialists and imperialists

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Kwa hiyo watu wa West (wakoloni) wakikuwekea vikwazo wewe ndio ulie tu.. Afrika hawakuiwekea vikwazo Zimbabwe...damn those colonialists and imperialists

Africa waliiwekea vikwazo gani Zimbabwe mkuu? Is there an African country which has refused to do business with Zimbabwe? In fact many African countries a still in good terms with Zimbabwe. Many African countries even opposed the sactions sasa wameiwekea Zimbabwe vikwazo gani mkuu?

 

[Ndahani]

Surely they will come even here to grab our gas and oil in case of discoveries.Because of the economic power they possess, some of these investment need them to be part of the process.They require huge capital investment. However, the biggest problem is about the way our leaders allow their selfish end to prevail in the place of the nation.This black gold if not well managed could easily become a curse by causing conflicts all around.

 

[Smatta]

Kuna kipindi Kenya walikuwa wanajitapa kwa kuwa na uchumi mzuri Afrika Mashariki na kati kwa sababu wakoloni waliijenga Kenya kuliko nchi zingne za eneo hilo. Sasa kwa nini wajitapie kurithi uchumi au misingi mizuri ya uchumi waliyorithi kama kila kitu cha wakoloni kilikuwa kibaya?

Zimbabwe kuna kipindi ilikuwa ni nchi yenye moja ya chumi nzuri Afrika. Mugabe alirithi nchi iliyokuwa na uchumi uliokuwa imara. Angalia sasa alivyoharibu. Nakumbuka wakati niko dogo kwenda Zimbabwe ilikuwa kama vile kwenda kiwanja. Sasa linganisha hali waliyonayo sasa na hali iliyokuwepo mwaka 80,81,82,83,84.....

Has anything changed on the economy issue, really? we is a hardworkin' lot, no props to the crackers, we just tried to maintain what they left behind much better than y'all. And I aint thanking them for anything, not the railway, airports, hospital, schools, or whatever else they claim they left behind.. That cant be compensation for all the atrocities that our ancestors faced under their rule.

 

[The Truth]

Man are you sure your got love for Africa? Thank the whites for what? For the slave trade? For taking able bodied African men to fight in their wars? Tell me one thing that they have done that that has so beneficial to us?

Whitey gave you the computer technology you are using to argue "Whitey hasn't given Africans anything". It is very ironic when you think about it. In order for your argument to be convincing, you would need to pack up and leave the Whitey gravy train you are riding in America, forefeit all the modern amenities, technology and go live in rural Africa. Then you will be able to take your current position convincingly.

And whats the difference between being exploited because of being poor and being poor because of exploitation? The key word is still EXPLOITATION!!!

In the former, exploitation is the effect and in the latter, exploitation is the cause. In other words, even if Whitey didn't exploit you, you would still be poor. I don't like to see people exploited but to say it was Whitey exploitation that has made Africa poor is categorically false.

It is your kind that exploits poor people simply because of their economic situation. I'm convinced you are not African and in fact you are a Whitey yourself or else you would not say, "You have been poor before Whitey came to Africa and you will continue to be poor". If you are an African then it's obvious our problem is African's like you.

Once again, I am not a Whitey. Telling the truth does not make me one.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Whitey gave you the computer technology you are using to argue "Whitey hasn't given Africans anything". It is very ironic when you think about it. In order for your argument to be convincing, you would need to pack up and leave the Whitey gravy train you are riding in America, forefeit all the modern amenities, technology and go live in rural Africa. Then you will be able to take your current position convincingly.



In the former, exploitation is the effect and in the latter, exploitation is the cause. In other words, even if Whitey didn't exploit you, you would still be poor. I don't like to see people exploited but to say it was Whitey exploitation that has made Africa poor is categorically false.



Once again, I am not a Whitey. Telling the truth does not make me one.

Its funny you spend a whole day monitoring the discussion and thinking and yet this is all that you come up with. Ok anyway let me answer you accordingly.

We are talking about what the "whitey" has given us by colonizing us and you say the computer technology. Were there computers when they colonized us? Again also there is no need to thank him for it because giving us as you say, the computer technology doest justify colonization. If you are satisfied with being colonized for centuries to eventually be "given" computer technology it's sad.

1.Yani again let me explain this. The reason the West became and industrial super power was because of the industrial revolution. What power the industrial revolution? The raw materials they took from Africa without any fair compensation. Sasa if you think the West would be where it was today without the use of our resources is wrong. If they developed their industry without exploiliting us then you would have an argument. So again he has given me nothing, he has just used the riches he took from my land to develop himself.

2.Here again we are talking about exploitation. Fine were exploited because we were poor but I am talking about being exploited by them. Sasa kama umesha kubali they exploited us why are we even having a discussion? Thats why in the last post I specifically told you whether they exploited us because we are poor or vice versa my point is they still exploited us. Go and check back what I wrote in that last post regarding your sentence of exploitation and you will noticed you have just agreed with me. Whether we would have been poor with or without that exploitation is another topic of discussion if you want we can start a whole different thread and discuss that.

 

[The Truth]

Its funny you spend a whole day monitoring the discussion and thinking and yet this is all that you come up with. Ok anyway let me answer you accordingly.

We are talking about what the "whitey" has given us by colonizing us and you say the computer technology. Were there computers when they colonized us? Again also there is no need to thank him for it because giving us as you say, the computer technology doest justify colonization. If you are satisfied with being colonized for centuries to eventually be "given" computer technology it's sad.

What you wrote is analogous to an ungrateful, bratty child asking the parent "what have you given me when you punished me, when you asked me to do household chores?". The child is mouthing off these questions while living under parent's roof, being fed by the parent, and being sheltered by the parent. What reply would the parent have in that case?

1.Yani again let me explain this. The reason the West became and industrial super power was because of the industrial revolution. What power the industrial revolution? The raw materials they took from Africa without any fair compensation. Sasa if you think the West would be where it was today without the use of our resources is wrong. If they developed their industry without exploiliting us then you would have an argument. So again he has given me nothing, he has just used the riches he took from my land to develop himself.

Put down the Afrocentric kool-aid man! You can't be this naive. The west was developed long before they came into contact with Africans. If you travel through Europe, the most magnificient architecture (cathedrals, palaces) pre-date scramble of Africa. The west already had advancement in many areas of science, literature, politics you name it. Plus how is it "your" riches if it is found in the ground? If anything it "earth's riches" not yours.

2.Here again we are talking about exploitation. Fine were exploited because we were poor but I am talking about being exploited by them. Sasa kama umesha kubali they exploited us why are we even having a discussion? Thats why in the last post I specifically told you whether they exploited us because we are poor or vice versa my point is they still exploited us. Go and check back what I wrote in that last post regarding your sentence of exploitation and you will noticed you have just agreed with me. Whether we would have been poor with or without that exploitation is another topic of discussion if you want we can start a whole different thread and discuss that.

uum, I never disagreed that Africans have been exploited. I disagree that exploitation caused or made Africans poor. That is a lie. You have been poor before Whitey exploited you and you will continue to be poor. So my point here is don't blame Whitey or Whitey's exploitation for your misfortunes.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

What you wrote is analogous to an ungrateful, bratty child asking the parent "what have you given me when you punished me, when you asked me to do household chores?". The child is mouthing off these questions while living under parent's roof, being fed by the parent, and being sheltered by the parent. What reply would the parent have in that case?

So are you saying the colonialist were like our parents and we the children?

Put down the Afrocentric kool-aid man! You can't be this naive. The west was developed long before they came into contact with Africans. If you travel through Europe, the most magnificient architecture (cathedrals, palaces) pre-date scramble of Africa. The west already had advancement in many areas of science, literature, politics you name it. Plus how is it "your" riches if it is found in the ground? If anything it "earth's riches" not yours.

1.If theywere already developed why did they see the need to come exploit Africa? That just shows they new that taking raw materials from Africa would be cheaper and fast move forward they development faster.

2.If reaches are found in the land there are not yours? So if you as The Truth went to another country and if you had the means simply just took there resources your defense would be that it is found within the land so it is anybodies? Don't be fooled if the "dream" world you are trying to convey were true then there wouldn't even be any needs for citizenry. What belongs to a certain country is there for the country and you can't just take it simply because it's in the ground.

uum, I never disagreed that Africans have been exploited. I disagree that exploitation caused or made Africans poor. That is a lie. You have been poor before Whitey exploited you and you will continue to be poor. So my point here is don't blame Whitey or Whitey's exploitation for your misfortunes.

Again did I blame whitey for our misfortunes? Thats why I told you to read my post carefully. I said colonialism didn't benefit us and you are saying I'm blaming them for us being poor? It seems you have a hard time comprihending statements. Mpaka the last post I said we agree on the exploitation but and I finished of by saying whether we are poor or not do to them was not what I said.

 

[The Truth]

So are you saying the colonialist were like our parents and we the children?

My point was you choose to focus on colonialism while ignoring the big picture, sort of like the child in the example I gave.

1.If theywere already developed why did they see the need to come exploit Africa? That just shows they new that taking raw materials from Africa would be cheaper and fast move forward they development faster.

That doesn't prove that the west was not developed. The west is after Africa's resources today(as titled in this thread), does that mean the west is not developed today? I have already gave you specific examples of how the west was far ahead in development prior to come into contact with Africans. I can go into detail if you want me to.

2.If reaches are found in the land there are not yours? So if you as The Truth went to another country and if you had the means simply just took there resources your defense would be that it is found within the land so it is anybodies? Don't be fooled if the "dream" world you are trying to convey were true then there wouldn't even be any needs for citizenry. What belongs to a certain country is there for the country and you can't just take it simply because it's in the ground.

This is a non-issue. If you feel the resources you are squatting over belong to you do so. Just remember, clever people will do everything they can to get those resources even if it means slapping you around to get you out of the way. That's just the way of the world. You better get used it.

Again did I blame whitey for our misfortunes? Thats why I told you to read my post carefully. I said colonialism didn't benefit us and you are saying I'm blaming them for us being poor? It seems you have a hard time comprihending statements. Mpaka the last post I said we agree on the exploitation but and I finished of by saying whether we are poor or not do to them was not what I said.

If exploitation didn't cause your poverty, why whine about it? I don't see where you are going with your "exploitation is exploitation" argument. It is a moot point if you don't try to tie it with African poverty. It is a moot point after all that Whitey has given and done for you.

 

[The Truth]

Back to the main topic of this thread, I say let the west drill for Africa's oil, after all it will be the same oil that will make cars, buses, trucks run in Africa. Africans will find meaningful employment, there will be newly created wealth. It's win-win situation. If the west doesn't drill it, the Chinese will or worse it will just be wasted under ground. Nobody benefits from that.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

My point was you choose to focus on colonialism while ignoring the big picture, sort of like the child in the example I gave.

What is the big picture? That colonization had to happen and in the long run it was beneficial to us? All those things you say they gave us including computer technology did they give us as a result of colonialism or was it something they would have given regardless? Or are you saying that since they gave us all these things you have mentioned then we should simply excuse all their actions?

That doesn't prove that the west was not developed. The west is after Africa's resources today(as titled in this thread), does that mean the west is not developed today? I have already gave you specific examples of how the west was far ahead in development prior to come into contact with Africans. I can go into detail if you want me to. I still don't see why I should again thank "whitey" while he gave me no favors.

Yes the West were ahead of us when they came to Africa that is not an issue of debate but they still needed us to move forward or else they wouldn't have bothered to come. Or did you think they came to colonize us so they could enjoy the fine weather?

This is a non-issue. If you feel the resources you are squatting over belong to you do so. Just remember, clever people will do everything they can to get those resources even if it means slapping you around to get you out of the way. That's just the way of the world. You better get used it.

So they belong to who? To everyone as you said? They why didn't you answer the question I asked you in the last post regarding this? Can you go to another country and take anything you so please? Otherwise there is no point of having countries then if we want that kind of freedom.

If exploitation didn't cause your poverty, why whine about it? I don't see where you are going with your "exploitation is exploitation" argument. It is a moot point if you don't try to tie it with African poverty. It is a moot point after all that Whitey has given and done for you.

How is it whining to say they exploited us? Did they exploit us or not? If they did then say so is not whining it is stating the truth. Because what you are saying is that as long as exploitation didn't cause Africa's poverty then it wasn't exploitation. And you thanking the whitey you say it's the truth nayo tuite kujipendekeza?
Why should I thank the Whitey for anything? For what favor? Everything they put in Africa during colonial time was to help them conduct their business. The railroads was to transport the goods they were taking. Everything they build was to help them go about their businesses and it wasn't out of any favor to no African. If that was the case they would have done all those things without the colonizing part.

Again I want to emphasize on a point. Should whatever the whites do be excused because of what you say they give us? So now even if they will do anything to you, The truth will still be thankful to them because they gave him things? That's being simplistic.

 

[zomba]

They just see us as a kind of opportunity to be exploited, they have no strategies to help us improve our economic status, or develop our countries with the 'under- explored' resources. they will come, arm us, polarize us tribally or religion wise and take as much oil as they can lay their white hands on. Its at this time when I start seeing why Farrakhan harbored hate for this exploiting race.

We shouldn't have this ''omba omba'' way of thinking, why should ''they have strategies to help us improve our economic status''? why cant we have our own strategies? Are we that lazy or dumb as to wait for others to do even the thinking for us? what a way of thinking!

Where are you when ''they can lay their white hands on'' you?

You are so hateful to even think properly, I am very sorry to tell you that, a kind of your way of thinking will never ever make us improve an inch in a 100 Years.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Anyway man you have the right to thank whoever you want. I can not say they have not helped you or not. If you feel they have helped you then kudos but for me I guess I'm just an ungrateful brat as you put it. Everybody has reasons to give thanks for whoever they feel deserves there thanks. If you are thankful to them I have no right to tell you otherwise.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

We shouldn't have this ''omba omba'' way of thinking, why should ''they have strategies to help us improve our economic status''? why cant we have our own strategies?

Are we that lazy or dumb as to wait for others to do even the thinking for us? what a way of thinking!

Where are you when ''they can lay their white hands on'' you?

You are so hateful to even think properly, I am very sorry to tell you that, a kind of your way of thinking will never ever make us improve an inch in a 100 Years.

I agree with you on some parts. We shouldn't have an "omba omba attitude" as you say so. Give feedback on what you think our strategies should be in order to move forward?

 

[KATIZAJI]

Mwanafalsafa nimekubali falsafa yako!
Tatizo tulilonalo ni kwamba waafrika wengi wana mawazo mgando! Na hawataki kufikiri kwa kina!
Kila alichofanya mzungu (mkoloni) kilikuwa kwa ajili ya maslahi yake, sisi tunafikiri alitusaidia; la hasha!
Miundombinu yote ilikuwa ya kuwasaidia kukusanya madini na mali nyingine kuzipeleka kwao. Angalia katika ramani ya afrika sehemu ambazo mtandao wa miundombinu upo kisha uangalie sehemu ambazo hakuna mtandao wa mindombinu, utajua sababu ( kwa wanaojua 'jiolojia' wataniambia).
Shule zote zilikuwa za kuwasaidia kupata wasimamizi wa shughuli zao na kuwaelimisha kama tunavyofikiri sasa. Ndio maana mpaka sasa tunawaza sana kuajiriwa badala ya kujiajiri kwa sababu hatujabadilisha maudhui ya elimu ya mkoloni.
Hospitali, na huduma nyingine zote zilikuwepo ili kuwawezesha kuchuma mali bila shida.
Tusisahau kwamba wakoloni walifikiri wataendelea kututawala kwa miaka mingi (mfano zimbabwe, afrika kusini, n.k.), ndio maana uhuru kwa baadhi ya sehemu ulipatikana kwa mbinde.
Jamani waafrika (watanzania) tuamke!

 

[The Truth]

What is the big picture? That colonization had to happen and in the long run it was beneficial to us? All those things you say they gave us including computer technology did they give us as a result of colonialism or was it something they would have given regardless? Or are you saying that since they gave us all these things you have mentioned then we should simply excuse all their actions? [/B]

Heck, since you are still harping on about colonialism why don't you tell me how bad was it for Africans? What was so bad about it?

Yes the West were ahead of us when they came to Africa that is not an issue of debate but they still needed us to move forward or else they wouldn't have bothered to come. Or did you think they came to colonize us so they could enjoy the fine weather?[/B]

I would say the contribution of Africans (if that's what you mean by us) in advancement of the west to be quite insignificant. Perhaps you should tell us what contribution Africans made to the western progress. Be specific, I am not interested in platitudes.

So they belong to who? To everyone as you said? They why didn't you answer the question I asked you in the last post regarding this? Can you go to another country and take anything you so please? Otherwise there is no point of having countries then if we want that kind of freedom.[/B]

Tell that to the Iraqis and "their" oil. By the way a lot of African countries are the result colonials ingenuity in drawing maps and setting up borders. Just thought I would remind you that.

How is it whining to say they exploited us? Did they exploit us or not? If they did then say so is not whining it is stating the truth. Because what you are saying is that as long as exploitation didn't cause Africa's poverty then it wasn't exploitation. And you thanking the whitey you say it's the truth nayo tuite kujipendekeza?

How can you come to that conclusion (Africans were not exploited) when I clearly stated Africans were exploited because you were/are poor?

Why should I thank the Whitey for anything? For what favor? Everything they put in Africa during colonial time was to help them conduct their business. The railroads was to transport the goods they were taking. Everything they build was to help them go about their businesses and it wasn't out of any favor to no African. If that was the case they would have done all those things without the colonizing part.[/B]

But is the infrastructure colonials built beneficial to Africans or not?

Again I want to emphasize on a point. Should whatever the whites do be excused because of what you say they give us? So now even if they will do anything to you, The truth will still be thankful to them because they gave him things? That's being simplistic.[/B]

I wouldn't say "whatever" Whites do be excused but you have to look at the big picture. Whites have given and done a lot for Africans. What have the Africans given or done to Whites?

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Mwanafalsafa nimekubali falsafa yako!
Tatizo tulilonalo ni kwamba waafrika wengi wana mawazo mgando! Na hawataki kufikiri kwa kina!
Kila alichofanya mzungu (mkoloni) kilikuwa kwa ajili ya maslahi yake, sisi tunafikiri alitusaidia; la hasha!
Miundombinu yote ilikuwa ya kuwasaidia kukusanya madini na mali nyingine kuzipeleka kwao. Angalia katika ramani ya afrika sehemu ambazo mtandao wa miundombinu upo kisha uangalie sehemu ambazo hakuna mtandao wa mindombinu, utajua sababu ( kwa wanaojua 'jiolojia' wataniambia).
Shule zote zilikuwa za kuwasaidia kupata wasimamizi wa shughuli zao na kuwaelimisha kama tunavyofikiri sasa. Ndio maana mpaka sasa tunawaza sana kuajiriwa badala ya kujiajiri kwa sababu hatujabadilisha maudhui ya elimu ya mkoloni.
Hospitali, na huduma nyingine zote zilikuwepo ili kuwawezesha kuchuma mali bila shida.
Tusisahau kwamba wakoloni walifikiri wataendelea kututawala kwa miaka mingi (mfano zimbabwe, afrika kusini, n.k.), ndio maana uhuru kwa baadhi ya sehemu ulipatikana kwa mbinde.
Jamani waafrika (watanzania) tuamke!

Nakubaliana na wewe 100%. Mimi siwachukii wazungu na hakuna mzungu aliye hai sasa aliye husika na ukoloni. Mimi sina sabau ya kuwa chukia kwa maana haisaidii chochote kwa sasa ila pia sina sababu ya kuwapa asante .Ambacho sikubaliani nacho ni mtu kusema eti niwape asante kwa walvyo tupa. Sihitaji kutoa mifano kwa sababu umesha toa mifano ya kutosha hapo juu. Lakini ndiyo hivyo mkuu it's a free world na kila mtu ana haki ya kufikiria ancho taka. Kwenye kila jambo kuna watu wa pande zote mbili. Hata kwenye ufisadi kuna wanao utetea na kuna wanaoupinga kwa sembuse hili.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Heck, since you are still harping on about colonialism why don't you tell me how bad was it for Africans? What was so bad about it?

What do you mean how bad was it for Africa? Weren't African's living before they came? Or do you mean to say life was not possible in Africa before them? Maybe you should elaborate your question.

I would say the contribution of Africans (if that's what you mean by us) in advancement of the west to be quite insignificant. Perhaps you should tell us what contribution Africans made to the western progress. Be specific, I am not interested in platitudes.

Man I have already say they used our resources to power their industries and those resources were taken unfairly sasa who said Africans went to help the whitey advance?

But is the infrastructure colonials built beneficial to Africans or not?

So I should thank him because he colonized Africa and build the infrastructure?

I wouldn't say "whatever" Whites do be excused but you have to look at the big picture. Whites have given and done a lot for Africans. What have the Africans given or done to Whites?

Well to name but a few things Africans worked in American plantations for no pay at all while they were being enslaved. The colonial power used African men to help them fight World War One and World War Two. After the Wars they used money from taxes we paid them in our land for helping them settle their war time debts.



Like I said in the last post you are free to thank them if you so wish. I don't still see the reason why I should thank them.

 

[The Truth]

What do you mean how bad was it for Africa? Weren't African's living before they came? Or do you mean to say life was not possible in Africa before them? Maybe you should elaborate your question.

I am asking how bad was colonialism to Africans. Can you tell me?

Man I have already say they used our resources to power their industries and those resources were taken unfairly sasa who said Africans went to help the whitey advance?

They are not "your" resources. You are just squatting over them and waste them.

So I should thank him because he colonized Africa and build the infrastructure?

That would be a good start. Then you can thank Whitey for everything else he has done and given Africans throughout history.

Well to name but a few things Africans worked in American plantations for no pay at all while they were being enslaved. The colonial power used African men to help them fight World War One and World War Two. After the Wars they used money from taxes we paid them in our land for helping them settle their war time debts.

If that's all you have offered Whitey, then you still owe him big time. Again without Whitey you would still be running around naked in Africa and stuck in the stone age.

Like I said in the last post you are free to thank them if you so wish. I don't still see the reason why I should thank them.

My people "ponjoros" have contributed a lot to the western society so there is less of a need for me to thank Whitey than you.