Who created God? Who made him? Where did he come from?

[Sinoni]

sasa hapa wakristo wamekukosea nini? si uwaache na ubabaishaji wao?

wapo pia wanaoamini mungu ameumbwa na binadamu na wapo pia wanaoamini uislamu ni dini ya shetani, sasa kwa nini wewe ujione bora unachoamini kuliko wengine?

na usisahamu wapo wanaoamini kwamba dini ni uongo na ulaghai unaoelekea kupitwa na wakati.

akili za kiccm zimeharibu ubongo wako hadi umeoza.

CCM inahusika vipi hapa , umemkosoa vizuri mwisho ukamalizia kama pale alipoishia!

 

[Eiyer]

Nimeuliza.

Kama mungu anapenda sana free will, kwa nini hakunipa uchaguzi niamue nizaliwe au nisizaliwe?

Hata kwa viwango vya kibinadamu tu, kabla ya kuanza kazi za kibinadamu kwa watu walioelimika unakubali majukumu na kusaini mkataba wa kazi.

Iweje mungu anayesifika kwa kupenda free will akaniweka tu duniani bila hata kuniuliza kama nataka kuwepo kwenye dunia yake mbovu au sitaki?

Huyu mungu anapenda free will kweli au hizi ni hadithi tu?

I see .....!!

 

[Anheuser]

Unachanganya kujua na kupanga,unapojua kesho mvua itanyesha haina maana umepanga inyeshe

Mungu anaposema anajua haina maana amepanga,anapojua kesho utaiba hajapanga wewe uibe!

Sawa kabisa.

Mungu anajua kwamba kesho utafanya uasherati au wizi lakini si yeye aliyepanga hivyo, unadai. Sawa.

Sasa kama utakachofanya kesho na keshokutwa na milele kinajulikana tayari, Mungu anakijua, ina maana njia ya maisha yako, matendo yako, yako fixed, yameshapangwa tayari. Sisemi imepangwa na Mungu, bali ishapangwa hivyo tangu unazaliwa, iko pre-determined, fixed, hakiwezi kubadilika, huwezi kuamka asubuhi ubadili mawazo, utafanya ubaya tu.

Which means, huna free will!

Right or wrong?

 

[Anheuser]

How did god

You mean God.

 

[Anheuser]

Wrong! And I tell you why.

.....

Nakupa mfano kidogo ambao japo si sawasawa na huu lkn unaweza kukupa mwanga kidogo.

Mwalimu wa Darasa Anaefundisha watoto ukimuuliza namna gani anadhani matokeo ya mitihani yatakavyokuwa kwa wanafunzi wake. Basi ni kitu cha kawaida kabisa kwa mwalimu kusema Fulani atapasi Na Fulani atafeli.
Hapa mwalimu ameona Mbele kutokana na Mazoea yake na hao wanafunzi wake.
Sasa Mungu Muumba wetu kuwa na knowledge of the future

Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae, kama huyo Mwalimu, ana predict mtoto gani atafeli na nani atapasi kutokana na mazoea yake na wanafunzi.

Basi Mungu nae hajui bali ana guess kutokana na anavyotujua viumbe wake, ana bahatisha bahatisha kama huyo mwalimu anaesema Madenge atafeli! Nilidhani anajua kila kitu.

By the way, sijasoma saana ila nimepita pita kwa walimu wengi wengi kidogo na sijawahi kusikia mwalimu anasema eti ana predict fulani atafeli! Eti ni "kitu cha kawaida." I mean that example was so out of whack! Hahahahaaa....

 

[mtvbase]

Nadhani ungesoma nilichokiandika Usingeandika haya.
Nimejaribu kutoa mfano ambao nime Insist kuwa HAUWEZI KUWA SAWA na subject lkn for great thinkers it will ring the bell.

But unfortunately we have different thinking capacity!

Unapotaka kutoa mfano wwt ukauhusisha na Mungu kwa watu wenye kufikiria ndani ya box tu ni Vigumu sana Kuwaelekeza.
Inatakiwa Utoke nje ya box halafu uutazame mfano huo in different aspects! Sio unabeba mazima tu!
Utakuja tumbukia kwenye shimo bure.

Na kutokusoma kwako vizuri ndiko kunakokusababisha kutokuwa na weledi.

Walimu wenye kuwafahamu wanafunzi wake when it comes to prediction Wanaweza kuwa Up to 95% accurate kuhusu performance za wanafunzi ktk matokeo yajayo ya Mtihani.

Na km hilo linakushangaza nadhani Hatutofika mbali na mjadala huu.

Sometime to make someone understand something, that individual must poses some sort of IQ.
And if he/she doesn't! Then it's like trying to play guitar to a lamb and expected the lamb to dance!

That ain't going to happen.

Leo kwa mara ya kwanza umeongea point

 

[Anheuser]

Walimu wenye kuwafahamu wanafunzi wake when it comes to prediction Wanaweza kuwa Up to 95% accurate kuhusu performance za wanafunzi ktk matokeo yajayo ya Mtihani.

Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo. "Up to," meaning even 15% inawezekana, almuradi asilimia sifuri mpaka 95, he can go all wrong up to 95%, and never 100% right. Yani Mungu nae ana predict mambo kwa kubahatisha bahatisha.

Tulidhani Mungu ni omniscient, anajua, sio ana predict, anajua kila kitu!

Tunatumia mfano ulioleta wewe mwenyewe, halafu unabanwa kwenye maelezo unaanza vioja, unanitukana IQ yangu halafu unajenga hoja mbovu namna hiyo?

By the way, watu wenye IQ unayodai, watu wenye "weledi" unaouongelea, huwa hawakejeli IQ za wenzao, au kusema hawana weledi. Hiyo tayari inaonyesha huna class wala restraint, ambayo sio hulka ya watu wenye IQ kubwa unayodai. Mtu mwenye IQ kubwa ana moderation ya kujua kutotukana tukana watu ovyo especially kuhusu IQ.

Eti mwalimu anasema fulani atafeli. Shule ya wapi hiyo umewahi kusikia mwalimu anatamka ana predict fulani atafeli? That was the most ridiculous illustration of all, I mean it was off the meat rack.

 

[Eiyer]

Sawa kabisa.

Mungu anajua kwamba kesho utafanya uasherati au wizi lakini si yeye aliyepanga hivyo, unadai. Sawa.

Sasa kama utakachofanya kesho na keshokutwa na milele kinajulikana tayari, Mungu anakijua, ina maana njia ya maisha yako, matendo yako, yako fixed, yameshapangwa tayari. Sisemi imepangwa na Mungu, bali ishapangwa hivyo tangu unazaliwa, iko pre-determined, fixed, hakiwezi kubadilika, huwezi kuamka asubuhi ubadili mawazo, utafanya ubaya tu.

Which means, huna free will!

Right or wrong?

Una reason kwa makosa sana

Kujua kesho utaiba sio kwamba huwezi kubadili maamuzi yako,unaweza

Mungu kujua mambo yako haina maana kuwa huwezi kubadili wala haina maana ya kuwa yako "fixed" kama unavyodai bali unaweza kubaadilika kama utataka na ndio maana unaadhibiwa baada ya hapo

Naweza kujua kuwa kesho ajali itatokea lakini kuna uwezekano wa ajali hiyo kutotokea kama hatua za uangalifu zitachukuliwa

Ndio maana kuna watu ambao wanauwezo wa kuona matukio ya wakati ujao wanawashauri watu wafanye maombi ili yasitokee!

 

[Lisa Valentine]

Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo. "Up to," meaning even 15% inawezekana, almuradi asilimia sifuri mpaka 95, he can go all wrong up to 95%, and never 100% right. Yani Mungu nae ana predict mambo kwa kubahatisha bahatisha.

Tulidhani Mungu ni omniscient, anajua, sio ana predict, anajua kila kitu!

Tunatumia mfano ulioleta wewe mwenyewe, halafu unabanwa kwenye maelezo unaanza vioja, unanitukana IQ yangu halafu unajenga hoja mbovu namna hiyo?

By the way, watu wenye IQ unayodai, watu wenye "weledi" unaouongelea, huwa hawakejeli IQ za wenzao, au kusema hawana weledi. Hiyo tayari inaonyesha huna class wala restraint, ambayo sio hulka ya watu wenye IQ kubwa unayodai. Mtu mwenye IQ kubwa ana moderation ya kujua kutotukana tukana watu ovyo especially kuhusu IQ.

Eti mwalimu anasema fulani atafeli. Shule ya wapi hiyo umewahi kusikia mwalimu anatamka ana predict fulani atafeli? That was the most ridiculous illustration of all, I mean it was off the meat rack.

Hapa ndio huwa naona ninyi Atheist akili yenu ni fupi kama mkia wa sungura. We can't measure God. Tunatumia analogy, mifano etc. ili kujenga logic. Mwenzio Kiranga nilimuuliza ni kipimo gani tutapima maelezo kasema tutumie logic. Sasa logic nazo mnapita wima sijui tuwasaidieje sasa. Huyu kahtaan kajenga logic yake kwa kukupa mfano wa mwalimu na prediction za ufaulu wa wanafunzi wake, wewe umeubeba kama ulivyo even with percentages ambazo pia ni mfano- unautwika kwa Mungu ati nae ana up to 95%. Where is your brain? take the logic leave the example aside!

 

[Eiyer]

Hapo baba paroko japokuwa tuko kwenye the same Boat here lkn ntakuregebisha kidogo.

Mwenye Elimu ya Future ilio 100% Ni MUNGU PEKE YAKE.
Hawa Fortune tellers ni Vibaka tu wanaobahatisha mambo lkn maneno yao 80% ni uongo tu.

Sasa akija mtu akakwambia anaweza Kuona Kesho huyo atakuwa ni ktk wale wachawi waongo tu.

Nimekusoma mkuu ...!!

 

[Eiyer]

Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo. "Up to," meaning even 15% inawezekana, almuradi asilimia sifuri mpaka 95, he can go all wrong up to 95%, and never 100% right. Yani Mungu nae ana predict mambo kwa kubahatisha bahatisha.

Tulidhani Mungu ni omniscient, anajua, sio ana predict, anajua kila kitu!

Tunatumia mfano ulioleta wewe mwenyewe, halafu unabanwa kwenye maelezo unaanza vioja, unanitukana IQ yangu halafu unajenga hoja mbovu namna hiyo?

By the way, watu wenye IQ unayodai, watu wenye "weledi" unaouongelea, huwa hawakejeli IQ za wenzao, au kusema hawana weledi. Hiyo tayari inaonyesha huna class wala restraint, ambayo sio hulka ya watu wenye IQ kubwa unayodai. Mtu mwenye IQ kubwa ana moderation ya kujua kutotukana tukana watu ovyo especially kuhusu IQ.

Eti mwalimu anasema fulani atafeli. Shule ya wapi hiyo umewahi kusikia mwalimu anatamka ana predict fulani atafeli? That was the most ridiculous illustration of all, I mean it was off the meat rack.

Hivi nyie mlifaulu vipi mitihani shuleni?

 

[Mshana Jr]

Nawauliza swali moja rahisi 'wewe ni nani?' Kwa lugha nyepesi na rahisi kabisa kila mpinga MUNGU atumie maneno yake binafsi bila kuwanakili wapinga MUNGU wengine hasa wazungu. wajibu wao kama wao katika uhalisia wao NAWASUBIRI KWA HAMU

 

[mwanafyale]

Kaka, kama wapo nitawashangaa sana. Ni bora uamini kuwa yupo na ukikuta hayupo huna cha kupoteza kuliko kinyume chake

 

[Walas Ba]

Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo. "Up to," meaning even 15% inawezekana, almuradi asilimia sifuri mpaka 95, he can go all wrong up to 95%, and never 100% right. Yani Mungu nae ana predict mambo kwa kubahatisha bahatisha.

Tulidhani Mungu ni omniscient, anajua, sio ana predict, anajua kila kitu!

Tunatumia mfano ulioleta wewe mwenyewe, halafu unabanwa kwenye maelezo unaanza vioja, unanitukana IQ yangu halafu unajenga hoja mbovu namna hiyo?

By the way, watu wenye IQ unayodai, watu wenye "weledi" unaouongelea, huwa hawakejeli IQ za wenzao, au kusema hawana weledi. Hiyo tayari inaonyesha huna class wala restraint, ambayo sio hulka ya watu wenye IQ kubwa unayodai. Mtu mwenye IQ kubwa ana moderation ya kujua kutotukana tukana watu ovyo especially kuhusu IQ.

Eti mwalimu anasema fulani atafeli. Shule ya wapi hiyo umewahi kusikia mwalimu anatamka ana predict fulani atafeli? That was the most ridiculous illustration of all, I mean it was off the meat rack.

Una wakati mgumu sana mwalimu anawwza jua kabisa huyu awwzi kufaulu na akakwambia ila awezi kukulazimisha ww kuona unachofanya ni kibaya ila yy atakupa ubaya na uzuri unayofanya. Na pia atakwambia mbeleni utakuwa na wakati gani katka mtihan wako.


Lakin will ya kufanyia kazi ipo kwako na hawezi ingilia apo. Mungu anajua ujinga uliopo Dunia na sio kwako maana ww kwnye huo ujinga kwa maana yangu nasema kufanya uovu. Mungu anakupa dalili zake na madhara yake na hakuamlii bali atakuacha uamue ila akiwa anakupa uo uhuru anamsingi wake.

Sijui kama umenielewa!

 

[tindikalikali]

Kaka, kama wapo nitawashangaa sana. Ni bora uamini kuwa yupo na ukikuta hayupo huna cha kupoteza kuliko kinyume chake

na wewe ni wale wale..unacheza mchezo wa sandakarawe?

 

[Mshana Jr]

na wewe ni wale wale..unacheza mchezo wa sandakarawe?

Tindikali usipoteze lengo jibu swali langu

 

[Anheuser]

take the logic leave the example aside!

Mfano umeutoa nyinyi wenyewe, utaniambiaje niuweke pembeni?

Hahahahahahahahaaaaa.....!

Tukiweka mfano pembeni ina maana tuweke pembeni na logic zake zote kwa sababu ni mbovu!

Kuwa muungwana, kuwa mstaarabu, kubali kwamba mfano wenu mmechemka!

Unasema mfano nimeubeba kama ulivyo, kumbe ningeuchakachua nisiubebe kama ulivyo? Mmemfananisha Mungu na mwalimu. Mfano maana yake unafananisha, mmesema mwalimu ana predict with up to 95% accuracy kwamba mimi nitafeli shule. Which means one, Mungu ana predict, hana hakika. Two, Mungu anapo predict ana accuracy ya zero up to 95, in other words he can fall completely flat and be wrong kabisa kabisa, zero accuracy.

And three, Mungu is never 100% right. A far cry from omniscient God, hajui kitu! Illustrations zenu nyinyi wenyewe.

Mnamkufuru Mungu wenu? Astakafululillah!

Halafu mnanicheka mimi sikwenda shule? Hoja ndio hizo? Bora sikwenda. Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa........

Una reason kwa makosa sana....

Naweza kujua kuwa kesho ajali itatokea lakini kuna uwezekano wa ajali hiyo kutotokea kama hatua za uangalifu zitachukuliwa

Kama "hatua za uangalifu" zilichukuliwa na ajali haikutokea then ina maana wewe hukujua kwamba ajali itatokea na ndio maana haikutokea! Unaweza kutabiri ajali lakini huwezi kujua ajali itatokea.

Kwa hiyo kama matokeo yanaweza kubadilika ina Mungu hajui utaamua nini kesho, Mungu sio omniscient.

Una wakati mgumu sana mwalimu anawwza jua kabisa huyu awwzi kufaulu na akakwambia ila awezi kukulazimisha ww kuona unachofanya ni kibaya ila yy atakupa ubaya na uzuri unayofanya. Na pia atakwambia mbeleni utakuwa na wakati gani katka mtihan wako.

Kama mwalimu anajua kwamba utafeli anakwambia ili iweje? Urekebishe mwenendo wa kujisomea ili ufaulu? Basi hajui kama utafeli! I mean, this should be extremely simple logic.

Hivi nyie mlifaulu vipi mitihani shuleni?

Unajuae nilifaulu?

Mungu anakupa dalili zake na madhara yake na hakuamlii bali atakuacha uamue ila akiwa anakupa uo uhuru anamsingi wake.

Kama Mungu anakuacha uamue cha kufanya ina maana binadamu anayo free will. Kama binadamu anayo free will ina maana kitakachofanyika kesho utachagua kesho, hakiko fixed, hakijapangwa tayari. Na kama hakiko fixed, kinaweza kuwa vyovyote, ina maana Mungu hajui itakavyokuwa, hajui utaamua nini, yani Mungu sio omniscient.

Mungu hawezi kusema anakupa choice wakati anajua utakachochagua, hiyo ni force choice. Ili uwe na genuine free will inabidi Mungu awe hajui utaamua nini.

 

[Eiyer]

Kama "hatua za uangalifu" zilichukuliwa na ajali haikutokea then ina maana wewe hukujua kwamba ajali itatokea na ndio maana haikutokea! Unaweza kutabiri ajali lakini huwezi kujua ajali itatokea.

Kwa hiyo kama matokeo yanaweza kubadilika ina Mungu hajui utaamua nini kesho, Mungu sio omniscient.

Wacha nichukue ushauri wa kahtaan ....

Kupigia mbuzi gitaa ni kazi ngumu sana ...!!

 

[Lisa Valentine]

Mfano umeutoa nyinyi wenyewe, utaniambiaje niuweke pembeni?

Hahahahahahahahaaaaa.....!

Tukiweka mfano pembeni ina maana tuweke pembeni na logic zake zote kwa sababu ni mbovu!

Kuwa muungwana, kuwa mstaarabu, kubali kwamba mfano wenu mmechemka!

Unasema mfano nimeubeba kama ulivyo, kumbe ningeuchakachua nisiubebe kama ulivyo? Mmemfananisha Mungu na mwalimu. Mfano maana yake unafananisha, mmesema mwalimu ana predict with up to 95% accuracy kwamba mimi nitafeli shule. Which means one, Mungu ana predict, hana hakika. Two, Mungu anapo predict ana accuracy ya zero up to 95, in other words he can fall completely flat and be wrong kabisa kabisa, zero accuracy.

And three, Mungu is never 100% right. A far cry from omniscient God, hajui kitu! Illustrations zenu nyinyi wenyewe.

Sijui level ya uelewa wako inafika wapi lakini I can show you how you are swinging unreasonably: Analogy inapotumika siyo situation halisi na hivyo wewe ulitakiwa kuchallenge logic separately if it falls short, then you can challenge the analogy separately if its a misfit. Wewe ulichokifanya ni kuchukua kipengele cha analogy na kuweka kwenye real situation. Kama hivi:

"Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo"

The above is wrong. The "up to 95% prediction" was totally an analogy of a teacher-student situation that was used to present his logic.

I will break it down kwa mfano mwingine, I hope hautaubeba kama ulivyo this time.

Real situation - Biashara, analogy - Bustani

Mtu anaelezea mafanikio ya biashara yake tangu alivyoanza mpaka alipofikia kwa analogy ya bustani.

Anasema: Nilipanda miche alafu nikapalilia, kumwagilia na kuihudumia bustani sasa nakula matunda.

Wewe unasema: Kwa hiyo biashara yako nayo ni ya matunda? matunda huwa hayaliwi bila kuoshwa!!

Hapo unachanganya mambo vibaya ndugu Anheuser . Kwa real situation matunda hayamo wala kupalilia bustani. Logic hapo ni Mtu kuijali biashara yake na sasa inampa faida. Unaweza ukaelezea ni jinsi gani analogy yake haifai lakini sio kubeba na kuipachika kwenye hali halisi na kuanza kuchanganya mambo kama vile hamna boundary kati ya mfano na hali halisi.

Kwa hiyo kuanzia hapo tayari the rest didn't add up. It was completely a mess. Ukishavuruga kwenye msingi wa argument yako kinachofuatia ni sarakasi.

 

[Anheuser]

if it falls short, then you can challenge the analogy separately if its a misfit.

Okay then, asante kwa kukubali makosa kiujanja ujanja. Mfano wenu ulikuwa "a misfit" or it "falls short."

Mi siwezi ku "challenge the analogy" kama unavyosema kwa sababu nakubaliana na analogy kwamba Mungu hajui kama ambavyo mwalimu nae hajui kwa uhakika kama mtu atafeli. Ana predict tu!

Tunaongelea uumbaji na Mungu kujua ama kutojua ya mbele halafu mtu analeta analogy za mwalimu ku predict by percentages of accuracy, that was a total blunder! It destroyed the chances of any arguments you could have. It was a complete disaster.