Who created God? Who made him? Where did he come from?


CCM inahusika vipi hapa , umemkosoa vizuri mwisho ukamalizia kama pale alipoishia!
 

I see .....!!
 
Unachanganya kujua na kupanga,unapojua kesho mvua itanyesha haina maana umepanga inyeshe

Mungu anaposema anajua haina maana amepanga,anapojua kesho utaiba hajapanga wewe uibe!
Sawa kabisa.

Mungu anajua kwamba kesho utafanya uasherati au wizi lakini si yeye aliyepanga hivyo, unadai. Sawa.

Sasa kama utakachofanya kesho na keshokutwa na milele kinajulikana tayari, Mungu anakijua, ina maana njia ya maisha yako, matendo yako, yako fixed, yameshapangwa tayari. Sisemi imepangwa na Mungu, bali ishapangwa hivyo tangu unazaliwa, iko pre-determined, fixed, hakiwezi kubadilika, huwezi kuamka asubuhi ubadili mawazo, utafanya ubaya tu.

Which means, huna free will!

Right or wrong?
 
Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae, kama huyo Mwalimu, ana predict mtoto gani atafeli na nani atapasi kutokana na mazoea yake na wanafunzi.

Basi Mungu nae hajui bali ana guess kutokana na anavyotujua viumbe wake, ana bahatisha bahatisha kama huyo mwalimu anaesema Madenge atafeli! Nilidhani anajua kila kitu.

By the way, sijasoma saana ila nimepita pita kwa walimu wengi wengi kidogo na sijawahi kusikia mwalimu anasema eti ana predict fulani atafeli! Eti ni "kitu cha kawaida." I mean that example was so out of whack! Hahahahaaa....
 
Leo kwa mara ya kwanza umeongea point
 
Walimu wenye kuwafahamu wanafunzi wake when it comes to prediction Wanaweza kuwa Up to 95% accurate kuhusu performance za wanafunzi ktk matokeo yajayo ya Mtihani.
Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo. "Up to," meaning even 15% inawezekana, almuradi asilimia sifuri mpaka 95, he can go all wrong up to 95%, and never 100% right. Yani Mungu nae ana predict mambo kwa kubahatisha bahatisha.

Tulidhani Mungu ni omniscient, anajua, sio ana predict, anajua kila kitu!

Tunatumia mfano ulioleta wewe mwenyewe, halafu unabanwa kwenye maelezo unaanza vioja, unanitukana IQ yangu halafu unajenga hoja mbovu namna hiyo?

By the way, watu wenye IQ unayodai, watu wenye "weledi" unaouongelea, huwa hawakejeli IQ za wenzao, au kusema hawana weledi. Hiyo tayari inaonyesha huna class wala restraint, ambayo sio hulka ya watu wenye IQ kubwa unayodai. Mtu mwenye IQ kubwa ana moderation ya kujua kutotukana tukana watu ovyo especially kuhusu IQ.

Eti mwalimu anasema fulani atafeli. Shule ya wapi hiyo umewahi kusikia mwalimu anatamka ana predict fulani atafeli? That was the most ridiculous illustration of all, I mean it was off the meat rack.
 

Una reason kwa makosa sana

Kujua kesho utaiba sio kwamba huwezi kubadili maamuzi yako,unaweza

Mungu kujua mambo yako haina maana kuwa huwezi kubadili wala haina maana ya kuwa yako "fixed" kama unavyodai bali unaweza kubaadilika kama utataka na ndio maana unaadhibiwa baada ya hapo

Naweza kujua kuwa kesho ajali itatokea lakini kuna uwezekano wa ajali hiyo kutotokea kama hatua za uangalifu zitachukuliwa

Ndio maana kuna watu ambao wanauwezo wa kuona matukio ya wakati ujao wanawashauri watu wafanye maombi ili yasitokee!
 

Hapa ndio huwa naona ninyi Atheist akili yenu ni fupi kama mkia wa sungura. We can't measure God. Tunatumia analogy, mifano etc. ili kujenga logic. Mwenzio Kiranga nilimuuliza ni kipimo gani tutapima maelezo kasema tutumie logic. Sasa logic nazo mnapita wima sijui tuwasaidieje sasa. Huyu kahtaan kajenga logic yake kwa kukupa mfano wa mwalimu na prediction za ufaulu wa wanafunzi wake, wewe umeubeba kama ulivyo even with percentages ambazo pia ni mfano- unautwika kwa Mungu ati nae ana up to 95%. Where is your brain? take the logic leave the example aside!
 

Nimekusoma mkuu ...!!
 

Hivi nyie mlifaulu vipi mitihani shuleni?
 
Nawauliza swali moja rahisi 'wewe ni nani?' Kwa lugha nyepesi na rahisi kabisa kila mpinga MUNGU atumie maneno yake binafsi bila kuwanakili wapinga MUNGU wengine hasa wazungu. wajibu wao kama wao katika uhalisia wao NAWASUBIRI KWA HAMU
 
Kaka, kama wapo nitawashangaa sana. Ni bora uamini kuwa yupo na ukikuta hayupo huna cha kupoteza kuliko kinyume chake
 

Una wakati mgumu sana mwalimu anawwza jua kabisa huyu awwzi kufaulu na akakwambia ila awezi kukulazimisha ww kuona unachofanya ni kibaya ila yy atakupa ubaya na uzuri unayofanya. Na pia atakwambia mbeleni utakuwa na wakati gani katka mtihan wako.


Lakin will ya kufanyia kazi ipo kwako na hawezi ingilia apo. Mungu anajua ujinga uliopo Dunia na sio kwako maana ww kwnye huo ujinga kwa maana yangu nasema kufanya uovu. Mungu anakupa dalili zake na madhara yake na hakuamlii bali atakuacha uamue ila akiwa anakupa uo uhuru anamsingi wake.

Sijui kama umenielewa!
 
take the logic leave the example aside!
Mfano umeutoa nyinyi wenyewe, utaniambiaje niuweke pembeni?

Hahahahahahahahaaaaa.....!

Tukiweka mfano pembeni ina maana tuweke pembeni na logic zake zote kwa sababu ni mbovu!

Kuwa muungwana, kuwa mstaarabu, kubali kwamba mfano wenu mmechemka!

Unasema mfano nimeubeba kama ulivyo, kumbe ningeuchakachua nisiubebe kama ulivyo? Mmemfananisha Mungu na mwalimu. Mfano maana yake unafananisha, mmesema mwalimu ana predict with up to 95% accuracy kwamba mimi nitafeli shule. Which means one, Mungu ana predict, hana hakika. Two, Mungu anapo predict ana accuracy ya zero up to 95, in other words he can fall completely flat and be wrong kabisa kabisa, zero accuracy.

And three, Mungu is never 100% right. A far cry from omniscient God, hajui kitu! Illustrations zenu nyinyi wenyewe.

Mnamkufuru Mungu wenu? Astakafululillah!

Halafu mnanicheka mimi sikwenda shule? Hoja ndio hizo? Bora sikwenda. Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa........

Una reason kwa makosa sana....

Naweza kujua kuwa kesho ajali itatokea lakini kuna uwezekano wa ajali hiyo kutotokea kama hatua za uangalifu zitachukuliwa
Kama "hatua za uangalifu" zilichukuliwa na ajali haikutokea then ina maana wewe hukujua kwamba ajali itatokea na ndio maana haikutokea! Unaweza kutabiri ajali lakini huwezi kujua ajali itatokea.

Kwa hiyo kama matokeo yanaweza kubadilika ina Mungu hajui utaamua nini kesho, Mungu sio omniscient.

Una wakati mgumu sana mwalimu anawwza jua kabisa huyu awwzi kufaulu na akakwambia ila awezi kukulazimisha ww kuona unachofanya ni kibaya ila yy atakupa ubaya na uzuri unayofanya. Na pia atakwambia mbeleni utakuwa na wakati gani katka mtihan wako.
Kama mwalimu anajua kwamba utafeli anakwambia ili iweje? Urekebishe mwenendo wa kujisomea ili ufaulu? Basi hajui kama utafeli! I mean, this should be extremely simple logic.

Hivi nyie mlifaulu vipi mitihani shuleni?
Unajuae nilifaulu?

Mungu anakupa dalili zake na madhara yake na hakuamlii bali atakuacha uamue ila akiwa anakupa uo uhuru anamsingi wake.
Kama Mungu anakuacha uamue cha kufanya ina maana binadamu anayo free will. Kama binadamu anayo free will ina maana kitakachofanyika kesho utachagua kesho, hakiko fixed, hakijapangwa tayari. Na kama hakiko fixed, kinaweza kuwa vyovyote, ina maana Mungu hajui itakavyokuwa, hajui utaamua nini, yani Mungu sio omniscient.

Mungu hawezi kusema anakupa choice wakati anajua utakachochagua, hiyo ni force choice. Ili uwe na genuine free will inabidi Mungu awe hajui utaamua nini.
 
Wacha nichukue ushauri wa kahtaan ....

Kupigia mbuzi gitaa ni kazi ngumu sana ...!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sijui level ya uelewa wako inafika wapi lakini I can show you how you are swinging unreasonably: Analogy inapotumika siyo situation halisi na hivyo wewe ulitakiwa kuchallenge logic separately if it falls short, then you can challenge the analogy separately if its a misfit. Wewe ulichokifanya ni kuchukua kipengele cha analogy na kuweka kwenye real situation. Kama hivi:

"Okay, kwa hiyo Mungu nae ana up to 95% accuracy anapo predict mambo"

The above is wrong. The "up to 95% prediction" was totally an analogy of a teacher-student situation that was used to present his logic.

I will break it down kwa mfano mwingine, I hope hautaubeba kama ulivyo this time.

Real situation - Biashara, analogy - Bustani

Mtu anaelezea mafanikio ya biashara yake tangu alivyoanza mpaka alipofikia kwa analogy ya bustani.

Anasema: Nilipanda miche alafu nikapalilia, kumwagilia na kuihudumia bustani sasa nakula matunda.

Wewe unasema: Kwa hiyo biashara yako nayo ni ya matunda? matunda huwa hayaliwi bila kuoshwa!!

Hapo unachanganya mambo vibaya ndugu Anheuser . Kwa real situation matunda hayamo wala kupalilia bustani. Logic hapo ni Mtu kuijali biashara yake na sasa inampa faida. Unaweza ukaelezea ni jinsi gani analogy yake haifai lakini sio kubeba na kuipachika kwenye hali halisi na kuanza kuchanganya mambo kama vile hamna boundary kati ya mfano na hali halisi.

Kwa hiyo kuanzia hapo tayari the rest didn't add up. It was completely a mess. Ukishavuruga kwenye msingi wa argument yako kinachofuatia ni sarakasi.
 
if it falls short, then you can challenge the analogy separately if its a misfit.
Okay then, asante kwa kukubali makosa kiujanja ujanja. Mfano wenu ulikuwa "a misfit" or it "falls short."

Mi siwezi ku "challenge the analogy" kama unavyosema kwa sababu nakubaliana na analogy kwamba Mungu hajui kama ambavyo mwalimu nae hajui kwa uhakika kama mtu atafeli. Ana predict tu!

Tunaongelea uumbaji na Mungu kujua ama kutojua ya mbele halafu mtu analeta analogy za mwalimu ku predict by percentages of accuracy, that was a total blunder! It destroyed the chances of any arguments you could have. It was a complete disaster.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…