Zitto
Former MP Kigoma Urban
- Mar 2, 2007
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why did nyerere support pan africanism and at the same time Biafra? Why did nyerere oppose south african capital and at the same time allow debeers into our diamond?
Why Did Nyerere Support Biafra?
Why Did Nyerere Support Biafra?
- Thread starter Zitto
- Start date
why did nyerere support pan africanism and at the same time Biafra? Why did nyerere oppose south african capital and at the same time allow debeers into our diamond?
KipimaPembe
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 5, 2007
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You don't know why Nyerere supported biafra? Nyerere himself explained! He was against opression even when done by an African! You want to know why Nyerere allowed De-beers in Tanzania? Wasn't Mwadui under STAMICO? How many shares did de-beers own during Nyerere? No this cannot be exemplified as an example of Nyerere's unpredictability Zitto, NO.
Kituko
JF-Expert Member
- Jan 12, 2009
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Mkuu umeongea vema kabisa hapo, ina wezekana Zitto anamchukulia Nyerere Jujuju tu, Ni Ngumu Africa kufanya Biashara ya Diamonds Bila De-Beers kuweka mkono wake, hata kama Nyerere alikuwa na wa namna gani alikuwa hawezi kuvuka kizingiti hicho cha De-Beers (Diamond forever)
Zitto
Former MP Kigoma Urban
- Mar 2, 2007
- 1,562
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- Thread starter
- #4
unaridhika na hayo majibu? Dont ever undermine my readings of Nyerere. He was unpredictable on Biafra. Can you imagine mwalimu kuwa timu moja na Boigny wa ivory coast? Unajua hakwenda OAU Summit ya egypt iliyojadili biafra akampeleka Kawawa na kukawa moto timu ya Tanzania ikakimbia? On mwadui, tanzania had 50% shares. Makaburu waliruhusiwa kufanya biashara Tanzania wakati hapakuwa na ruksa kufanya biashara. Unakumbuka ppt zetu hata ilitajwa SA marufuku? Unasema mwl was predictable!
Kituko
JF-Expert Member
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Mkuu hivi unaelewa vizuri issue ya Biafra, na unajua ni kwa nini Nyerere alienda kwa Felix A Boigny, Wewe ni Mbunge na probably unaweza kuwa hata waziri wa madini siku moja, basi jaribu kuwasoma sana De-beers na biashara ya Diamonds
anyway tuko nje ya Mada, Tukirudi kwenye mada
Zitto Kuna Maswali Mengi ambayo umeulizwa humu mkuu,
ni maswali ambayo yanahitaji huyatolee majibu ya kina na yenye ukweli nndani yake, lakini mpaka sasa majibu unayoyatoa ndio yanazidi kuleta maswali mengine, unatoa majibu ambayo yanaunganisha doti za kuwapeleka watu kule walikokuwa wanakudhania,
-Hivi kweli Zitto unatuambia kupingana kwako na msimamo wa waliowengi wa kutoka nje ya Bunge uliupata baada ya kuongea na wapiga kura wako, Kwa hiyo unataka kutuambia hayo maamuzi uliyoyafanya ni shinikizo la wana Kigoma Kaskazini?
- Na sababu nyingine ni kuwa JK kafanya mambo makubwa kigoma, kwa maana hiyo ulikuwa unalipa Fadhira?, Hivi kweli Zitto kwa uwezo wako ulionao unaweza kweli danganyika na peremende?, kwa kitendo cha kutengenezewa barabara unapoteza utu na uwezo wako wote wa kufikiria?
Zitto Jaribu kujibu maswali ya watu kwa upana na bila kuwa na walakini, kumbuka unacheza na hisia na matumaini ya watu
Zitto,
To those of us who were there at the time Mwalimu was very predictable on Biafra. Believe me. Alipoondoka Dar Februari 1967 kwenda kukutana na Gowon, na baadaye Houphoet Boigny, we knew what Mwalimu was up to. Mwakilishi wa Biafra DSM was working overtime to win over Tanzania's symphathy on the Nigerian pogrom. Contradictory, maybe, but very predictable.
Mwanamageuko
JF-Expert Member
- Oct 31, 2010
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Mh. hapa ndipo mie huwaambia watu wavae miwani ya fikra. Tuna tatizo kubwa sana la upofu watanzania. upofu wa kutojua kupima mambo na kushindwa kujiuliza kwanini? bado tunakurupuka kwenye mambo mengi. Ndio maana ikija hoja hawaipimi imelenga wapi na kwa nia ipi. Hawajiulizi huyu kasema meza je ni meza ipi? ya mbao au kumeza chakula! watakurupuka kusema "tuivunje, tumnyang'anye!!" mwisho wa siku ndipo wanajua waliambiwa kumeza chakula AIBU!
bitimkongwe
JF-Expert Member
- Oct 21, 2009
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Na hii inatoka kwa Kipimba Pembe:
You don't know why Nyerere supported biafra? Nyerere himself explained! He was against opression even when done by an African! You want to know why Nyerere allowed De-beers in Tanzania? Wasn't Mwadui under STAMICO? How many shares did de-beers own during Nyerere? No this cannot be exemplified as an example of Nyerere's unpredictability Zitto, NO.
Biafra naikumbuka sana na sababu alinipa jamaa mmoja wa Nigeria (Mkristo Mkatoliki). Hiyo ya oppression ndiyo kwanza tuisikie kutoka kwako.
De Beers naikumbuka sana na huku tulikuwa tunaimba kaburu ondoa! ondoa! plus a lot of other crap, huku tunauza almasi kwa akina De Beers. Nilipoisikia hii wakati tulipokuwa na discussion kwenye Development studies sikuamini masikio yangu!
Hii ni hoja ambayo imenifanya nichangie. Msimamo wa Mwalimu kuhusu Biafra ulikuwa wazi uonevu wa watu wale ulikuwa hauvumiliki na alilinganisha na ukandamizaji wa Wayahudi kule Ujerumani kitu kilichosababisha mauaji ya Wayahudi milioni sita. Maelezo yake kama yalivyokatika hotuba yake yana nguvu sana. Mwalimu alisukumwa na uonevu uliokuwa ukiendelea kule. Lakini kwa viongozi wengi wa Afrika wao waliona kuwa ukamilifu wa nchi ni kitu cha maana na kuwa mambo ya ndani ya nchi yasiingiliwe na nchi nyingine. Ni hoja hii ambayo Mwalimu aliipigia kelele sana wakati wa vita na Iddi Amini. Obasanjo alitoka katika Mkutano kule Monrovia pale Mwalimu alipoanza kuzungumza (1979). Msimamo wa Mwalimu wa kupinga ukiukaji wa haki za binadamu uliofanywa na Waafrika ndio ulisababishwa kutungwa kwa Mkataba wa Afrika wa Haki za Watu na Wanadamu wa Mwaka 1981.
Katika mgogoro wa Biafra Tanzania iliungwa mkono na Zambia, Ivory Coast na Gabon. Ikumbukwe kuwa Tanzania ilikuwa ni nchi ambayo ilikuwa ikijitoa muhanga kwa mambo mengi wakati ule kwani ilikuwa vilevile miongoni mwa nchi saba zilizovunja uhusiano na Uingereza kutokana na mgogoro wa Zimbabwe (Rhodesia). Bila kusahau kule kuziongoza nchi za Kiafrika kususia michezo ya Olimpiki kule Montreal Canada mwaka 1976 licha ya kuwa Waziri Mkuu wa Canada Tredeau alikuwa rafiki mkubwa wa Mwalimu.
Si hivyo tu ni kuwa Mwalimu hakusita kuvunja uhusiano na Israel kuziunga mkono nchi za Kiarabu baada ya vita ya mwaka 1973 na vilevile kupigania haki za Wapalestina, na Sahara Magharibi kwa nguvu zote.
Ninachotaka kusema ni kuwa pale Mwalimu alipoona vitendo vya unyama alipinga na hata kutuma wanajeshi au majeshi kama Comorro 1975-1976, Seychelles 1976, Angola, Guinea Bissau, Msumbiji ikiwa ni pamoja na kukubali Tanzania kuwa Makao Makuu ya Kamati ya Ukombozi wa Afrika. Hakuna kitu Nkrumah hakukipenda kama kile cha Tanzania kuchaguliwa kuwa Makao Makuu ya Kamati hii kwani aliamini kuwa Mwalimu ni kibaraka wa nchi za Magharibi. Katika Mkutano wa OAU wa mwaka 1964, Mwalimu alitoa hotuba kali akisema Tanzania ipo tayari kamati hiyo iende Ghana kama Nkrumah anaona itamfurahisha. Wote tu mashahidi wa historia kuwa uamuzi wa kuipa Tanzania jukumu hilo ulikuwa ni wa msingi kwani miaka miwili baadaye Nkrumah alipinduliwa.
Hii vilevile inanikumbusha suala lako kuhusu kwanini Mwalimu alikuwa upande mmoja na Houphet Bouigny katika suala la Biafra ni vema kukumbuka kuwa walikuwa upande mmoja katika suala na Muungano wa Afrika wakipigania muungano wa kikanda na si Muungano wa Afrika nzima.
Suala jingine ni lile la kuhusu De Beers. Ni kweli kabisa kuwa Tanzania iliendelea kuuza Almasi kupitia De Beers kwani soko la Almasi lilikuwa limehodhiwa nayo. Hata Urusi (USSR) ililazimika kuuza Almasi zake kupitia kwayo. Na hiki kitu klimuuma sana Mwalimu. Ukiritimba wa De Beers umevunjwa siku za karibuni lakini hiyo ndiyo ilikuwa hali halisi wakati ule. Hiyo haikuwa kwamba alikuwa anadanganya watu au mnafiki. Ni kama alivyoendelea kufanya biashara na nchi za Magharibi licha ya ukweli kwamba zilikuwa zinaunga mkono serikali dhalimu ya Caetano na Salazar kule Angola na Msumbiji, Haini Ian Smith Zimbabwe, na makaburu kule Afrika ya Kusini. Ni kwa bahati mbaya kuwa matukio haya mengi yamesahaulika kwa Watanzania na Historia ya mchango wa Tanzania katika ukombozi wa bara letu na kupigania haki duniani haijaandikwa na kufundishwa vizuri. Mwisho, Mwalimu alikuwa ni mtu kama Mwanadamu yeyote yule kuna maeneo alikosea lakini si katika kupigania haki uhuru wa Mwafrika kujitawala (right to self-determination). Lakini wabadilishaji na wapindishaji mambo wapo hivyo jambo lililofanywa kwa nia njema laweza kugeuzwa kuwa baya.
Mtu anayependa anaweza kusoma zaidi kuhusiana na mambo ya Biafra hapa chini.
See also http://www.kwenu.com/biafra/nyerere_biafra.htm
http://www.republicreport.com/biafr...ica-written-by-late-president-julius-nyerere/
Biafra, Human Rights & Self-Determination In Africa, Written By Late President Julius Nyerere
Biafra, Human Rights & Self-Determination In Africa, Written By Late President Julius Nyerere | Republic Report
1 September 2010 written by Republic Report New York 79 views View Comments
New York [RR] TANZANIA–RepublicR eport is in possession of communication on Biafra, Human Rights and self-determination rights written by President Julius Nyerere during the Nigeria-Biafra War. According to Julius Nyerere, "Tanzania has recognized the State of Israel and will continue to do so because of its belief that every people must have some place in the world where they are not liable to be rejected by their fellow citizens. But the Biafrans have now suffered the same kind of rejection within their state that the Jews of Germany experienced. Fortunately they
already had a homeland. They have retreated to it for their own protection, and for the same reason – after all other efforts had failed – they have declared it to be an independent state", he said, Adding, "In the light of these circumstances, Tanzania feels obliged to recognize the setback to African unity which has occurred. We therefore recognize the State of Biafra as an independent sovereign entity, and as a member of the community of nations. Only by this act of recognition can we remain true to our conviction that the purpose of society, and of all political organization, is the service of Man", he added.
Read more on self-determination of nations as enshrined in the United Nations Human Rights charter and other instruments….
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"Tanzania has recognized the State of Israel and will continue to do so because of its belief that every people must have some place in the world
where they are not liable to be rejected by their fellow citizens. But the Biafrans have now suffered the same kind of rejection within their state that the Jews of Germany experienced. Fortunately they already had a homeland. They have retreated to it for their own protection, and for the same reason - after all other efforts had failed - they have declared it to be an independent state. In the light
of these circumstances, Tanzania feels obliged to recognize the setback to African unity which has occurred. We therefore recognize the State of Biafra as an independent sovereign entity, and as a member of the community of nations. Only by this act of recognition can we remain true to our conviction that the purpose of society, and of all political organization, is the service of Man."
Solomon David
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 1, 2009
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are you kidding me? Drew Brees would love this shyt hommie
Mzee Tenga
Member
- Nov 23, 2010
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Suala la biafra (Nigeria) na suala la ogadenia (Somalia) ni suala linalofanana katika kila kitu. Lakini Nyerere akakubaliana na Biafra, na akakataa ya Ogadenia. Suala la debeer, hata mpaka linatia kichefuchefu hata kulikumbuka. Ingawa kuna watu humu wanalitetea. After all debeer na biafra walikuwa wakiristo anyway; ogadenians jee? waislamu.
Nyerere ndiye aliyepanda mbegu zinazoleta mijadala hii leo hii.
Nyerere ndiye aliyepanda mbegu zinazoleta mijadala hii leo hii.
But Zitto please why do compare your leadership with Nyerere. What have you done to this country so far? Are you thinking that you are great leader or you expect to be a great leader? Please take a break. Think and decide.
kutokana na mahojiano ya hivi karibuni ndani ya tbc1 ya mtoa mada kama ni yeye ni kuwa anataka kulenga kuwa nyerere alikuwa mdini kwa kuwaunga mkono na kuwasaidia wa-ibo wa biafra ambao kwa wingi wao ni wakristo. ni muono finyu. kambarage mara nyingi alichekwa kwa kusaidia wanyonge ambao mara zote walikuwa ni loosers. hii nayo si sahihi mara zote kama inavyojidhihirisha katika mafanikio ya ukombozi wa nchi za kusini mwa afrika kutoka makucha ya wadhalimu wakoloni.
Rugemeleza
JF-Expert Member
- Oct 26, 2009
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Haimaanishi kuwa Mwalimu alikuwa anaunga mkono ubaguzi kwa vile alilazimika kuuza almasi ya Mwadui kupitia De Beers kwani hao ndio walikuwa wamiliki wa soko duniani. Ikumbukwe ni Mwalimu aliyelazimisha Afrika ya Kusini kufukuzwa katika Jumuia ya Madola kwani vinginevyo Tanganyika isingejiunga. Na ni yeye aliyepiga marufuku Watanganyika kwenda kufanya kazi kama Manamba katika migodi huko Afrika ya Kusini.
Ubaya ni kuwa watu kwa sababu ambazo zinalenga kuchafua rekodi nzuri ya kupigania wanyonge malengo yao yanasomwa kupita vipimo vya chuki na udini vitu ambavyo ni vya kupiga vita kwa nguvu zote.
Rufiji
Platinum Member
- Jun 18, 2006
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I am not conversant with the topic; however, I have reaserched and discover the following pertaining to DeBeer and Mwadui:
Per Wikipedia,
The diamond industry of Tanzania in the 1930s was characterized by a scattering of very small mining operations that were insignificant in the economic makeup of the country. Dr. Williamson was hired by one of these operations, the Mabuki diamond mine, in 1938 and used it as his base for diamond prospecting in the region. In 1940 he discovered the Mwadui kimberlite pipe; over the next several years he developed the mine, although he was hindered by difficulty in procuring equipment and raising funds due to World War II. By the 1950s he had developed the Williamson diamond mine into the first significant diamond mine in Tanzania, with state of the art equipment and a labor force of several thousand. The mine was noted for numerous technical innovations in diamond mining which were developed under Williamson's watch. Williamson closely managed the mine until his death in 1958 at the age of 50.
Williamson's heirs sold the mine for about £4 million GBP to an equal partnership between De Beers and the colonial government of Tanganyika on August 13, 1958. In 1971, a decade after Tanzania's independence, the government nationalized the mine. Although details are unknown, De Beers and other diamond industry players speculate that mine performance deteriorated significantly in the 1980s under government management. Suspected causes of this are a decrease in ore grade as the mine's richer deposits were worked out, loss of skilled foreign management and engineering staff, a bloated labor force resulting from government employment efforts, and inadequate capital investment in the mine's equipment. Perhaps as a result of this poor performance, Tanzania invited De Beers to purchase back into the mine, which the company decided to do. In 1994 De Beers bought 75% of the Williamson mine, with Tanzania retaining the remaining shares.
Since 1994, De Beers has acted to improve the performance of the Williamson diamond mine by trimming work force, making needed capital investments in equipment, and bringing in expertise in technology, technique, and exploration. Although the mine is still viewed as a marginal performer due to its low ore grade, De Beers has identified several possible avenues for development that would keep the mine operating well into the future.
My take:
The article above clearly vindicated Mwalimu from Zitto's accusations. In fact, it is quite contrary to what Zitto's has suggested. Per above article, it can be clearly seen that Mwalimu had zero tolerance with that curtail "DeBeers" and that is the reason he confiscated their belongings.
Per Wikipedia,
The diamond industry of Tanzania in the 1930s was characterized by a scattering of very small mining operations that were insignificant in the economic makeup of the country. Dr. Williamson was hired by one of these operations, the Mabuki diamond mine, in 1938 and used it as his base for diamond prospecting in the region. In 1940 he discovered the Mwadui kimberlite pipe; over the next several years he developed the mine, although he was hindered by difficulty in procuring equipment and raising funds due to World War II. By the 1950s he had developed the Williamson diamond mine into the first significant diamond mine in Tanzania, with state of the art equipment and a labor force of several thousand. The mine was noted for numerous technical innovations in diamond mining which were developed under Williamson's watch. Williamson closely managed the mine until his death in 1958 at the age of 50.
Williamson's heirs sold the mine for about £4 million GBP to an equal partnership between De Beers and the colonial government of Tanganyika on August 13, 1958. In 1971, a decade after Tanzania's independence, the government nationalized the mine. Although details are unknown, De Beers and other diamond industry players speculate that mine performance deteriorated significantly in the 1980s under government management. Suspected causes of this are a decrease in ore grade as the mine's richer deposits were worked out, loss of skilled foreign management and engineering staff, a bloated labor force resulting from government employment efforts, and inadequate capital investment in the mine's equipment. Perhaps as a result of this poor performance, Tanzania invited De Beers to purchase back into the mine, which the company decided to do. In 1994 De Beers bought 75% of the Williamson mine, with Tanzania retaining the remaining shares.
Since 1994, De Beers has acted to improve the performance of the Williamson diamond mine by trimming work force, making needed capital investments in equipment, and bringing in expertise in technology, technique, and exploration. Although the mine is still viewed as a marginal performer due to its low ore grade, De Beers has identified several possible avenues for development that would keep the mine operating well into the future.
My take:
The article above clearly vindicated Mwalimu from Zitto's accusations. In fact, it is quite contrary to what Zitto's has suggested. Per above article, it can be clearly seen that Mwalimu had zero tolerance with that curtail "DeBeers" and that is the reason he confiscated their belongings.
Uwezo Tunao
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 14, 2010
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ZITTO KABWE AT WAR WITH MWL NYERERE HISTORY, AT WAR WITH PERCEIVED RELIGIOUS WRONGS AND AT WAR WITH HIMSELF
How sweet that you hand to come over by yourself Hon Kabwe!!! Your certainly need speedy and comprehensive assistance for self-discovery, and reclaimation of your rightful place in the society. Mhe Zitto, there is nothing bad against you basically except if you dare betray the public spirit aganst UFISADI-fight by siding with the velain it is when the help of fellow youths in this country will be forced to express deep displeasure at that.
On your war with Mwalimu Nyerere and how you seek to question some of his liberation struggle moves, that debate demands that you do justice to the late father of the nation by stating clearly the detriments caused and how that has since informed your position to practice a rather SLIPPERY kind of politicts that greatly borders OPPORTUNISM, SELF-SEEKING tendencies, and more to do with a TALENT-for-hire kind politics. Do no fight Mwalimu Nyerere on the grace, seek to do things even better today than he may have succeeded to do at his time.
Hey JFs, take note, Kabwe's insinuation on Mwl Nyerere need to be pursued further with greater keenness. A lot cold be dug out from this. I remember there is a thread running that poses a rather very innocent question as to whether Baba Wa Taifa's DEATH WAS NATURAL OR NOT. With the Zitto dig-out into a rather historical injustices that his fair mind offers him, there is more than food for thought wrapped under.
Two, Zitto you talk of the Nigeria's Biafra war in West Africa at a time we were only todlers, a smell of petrol rushes up my nose with that mzee. I smell of a perceived Religious Animosity in Naigeria seems to be on your consignment list as an import to not only help justify your previous and perharps future SLIPPERY actions, but may be by extension seeks to justify the now hotly contested TURN to embrace Religious Division of Tanzanians. This again, Zitto will be a fight between you and your God to provide a way out. Someone had asked in previous threads whether Zitto could really be clinging to UDINI philosophies or not, I find no more to add here.
An observation from a distance discloses much that Kabwe would least have wanted the public to know of him. There is a major war between Zuberi with his inner-self. This could be proved basing on how his present actions sems to be badly contrasting the past. Well, experts in here would certainly be having different explanations to align to the claims. Otherwise, in my view, the guy need to immediately marry in order to find another half that will always be checking on his extreme moves and decisions. The internal conflicts in Kabwe seems to be overwhelming to the extent that it takes no caution of exploding in many other social spheres that he participates.
Cool down man, be a simple person and prove to be as RELIABLE as possible beyond reproach in your public life. In spite of the fact that RELIGION has magic power to turn someone as intelligent as Prof Mark Mwandosya or Prof Ibrahim Haruna Lipumba to become SO FOOLISH beyond anyone's imagination, yo have no business TAKING REVENGE on a NYERERE PAST that you actions stand to punish today's innocent generations. Think about sir!!
Arafat
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 17, 2009
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History does not teach fatalism. There are moments when the will of a handful of free men breaks through determinism and opens up new roads.
Zito you are wrong, you are trying to diverge the main issue by asking the panel what Nyerere did, What he did can not substantiate what are doing, so defend your points by facts not history.
People has come to know your real side, and all you are doing very sad to you and shame awake!!
Zito you are wrong, you are trying to diverge the main issue by asking the panel what Nyerere did, What he did can not substantiate what are doing, so defend your points by facts not history.
People has come to know your real side, and all you are doing very sad to you and shame awake!!
....Huu ni uelewa wako au ndio UDINI unaendelea?...
Zitto kauliza....may be amesoma mahala, au kwa kuwa Muulizaji ni Zitto basi ni kaweka UDINi mbele...Angeuliza Mwanakijiji mngekuja na 100 "thanks"
Tungempa Muda Zitto aeleze au watu waendelee kumpa Somo juu ya Biafra....
Au wewe mwezetu ni wale ambao washamfanya Nyerere ni "Saints" hivyo hamtaki kusikia "Dark Side" yake...
Uwezo Tunao
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 14, 2010
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Thanks for promoting orderliness.