Bunge la Kenya laamua nchi kujitoa katika mahakama ya ICC.

[Mwana wa Mungu]

nilishangaa kuona jana kenya wanapeleka mswada bungeni kuamua kama wajitoe kwenye mkataba wa Roma wa ICC au la. nilishindwa kuelewa hasa pale wengi wao wakiwa wabunge walivyokuwa wanaongea kwa comfidence kabisa kuwa, kama watafanikiwa kujiondoa, watakuwa huru kama ilivyo kwa israel, china, marekani, sudan etc.

kitu cha ajabu ambacho nilishangaa ni kwamba, ni kama vile kenya hakuna wanasheria wa sheria za jinai za kimataifa, na hawana washauri kuhusiana na sheria hizo. hii ni kwasababu, jambo hili wamepotea kabisa.

UKWELI NI KWAMBA: hata kama kenya wakipitisha kujitoa ICC, wakawa sio member, bado uhuru kenyatta na wenzake wataendelea kujibu shitaka kwasababu uchunguzi wa makosa yao na kesi yao ulianzishwa wakati wao wakiwa member wa ICC, hivyo jambo hili halitafunika yale ya zamani. isipokuwa kuanzia siku hiyo watakapo jitoa ndipo prosecutor na state parties watakuwa hawana nguvu kupeleka jambo icc.

cha ajabu ni kwamba, nchi hata kama sio member wa ICC, haina immunity kwa watu wake kutoshitakiwa ICC. hii inakuwaje? ni kwamba, ili ICC ianze uchunguzi au kuendesha kesi thidi ya mtu, lazima jambo liwe limepelekwa ICC na state party, au prosecutor mwenyewe awe ameamua kuanzisha mwenyewe after approval by judges. njia nyingine ambayo ni ya tatu na ya mwisho kwa jambo kufika ICC ni kwa kupitia security council resolution. HAPA NDIPO KWENYE KIKOMO, kama suala litapelekwa ICC na security council, haijalishi nchi/kenya ni member wa ICC au la, security council inaweza kurefer matter ya nchi yeyote iwe member au sio member hakuna limitation hiyo, na once prosecutor akipokea toka UN security council basi anaanza uchunguzi au/na kuomba arrest warrant itolewe.

hivyo basi, dawa pekee kuwakamata viongozi wa nchi ambazo sio member wa mkataba wa roma na kwa kupitia security council resolution. na hii ndio iliyotokea kwa omar al bashir wa sudan ambayo ni nchi isiyo member wa ICC lakini rais wao anapata shida mno, hata kusafiri anashindwa, ni utumwa na ufungwa.

KITAKACHOTOKEA KENYA: ni kwamba, wakijitoa wawe sio member, basi, kama kosa litafanyika, nchi wanachama hawatakuwa na nguvu ya kisheria kupeleka jambo hilo icc, lakini security council itakuwa na nguvu hiyo. na kama security council ikipeleka jambo na arrest warrant ikatokea, ina maana kuwa mtuhumiwa huyo asije hata siku moja akatembelea nchi mwanachama, kwasababu akitembelea nchi mwanachama tu atakamatwa kule (pamoja na kwamba nchi mwanachama nyingine zinakuwa marafiki hivyo hawamkamati kama al bashir alivyotembelea tz etc). kwa mfano kama uhuru kenyatta ndio angekuwa amefanya hivyo na kenya sio member, basi asitembelee nchi yeyote ile iliyosaidi, atakamatwa kwasababu nchi zilizosaini zilikubaliana kuwa mtuhumiwa akiwa nchini kwako lazima ushirikiane na icc kumkamata kwani icc haina polisi, inategemea state parties. hii ingemfanya kenyatta kuwa mfungwa wa kuishi kenya tu, ni sawa na al bashir, huwezi kumwambia aende ulaya leo, hawezi hata siku moja. sasa najiuliza, kwanini kenya wanakuwa hawalijui hili?

to be continued....................

 

[FRANCIS DA DON]

Inavyoonekana wamekurupuka bila kuomba ushauri wa kitaalamu kutoka kwa wanasheria wao.., am sure Kenya ina wataalamu wengi ambao wangeweza kuwafahamisha of this reality kwamba haitasaidia kujitoa...! Nice piece by the way..

 

[Jammu Africa]

Watu kama wewe jamu africa bado mna think inside the box..hivi hamuoni kwamba mnaipa Icc sababu za kuwadetain hao wahalifu wawili..hamuoni kwamba mnazidi kulikoroga na kusidi kujiondole uaminifu mliokuwa mmeupata from icc..itafikia hatua uhuru au ruto hatorudi coz mnaonekana kuwa hostile to icc..yaani mnawachimbia wenzenu kaburi hivi hivi..bad timing kwa kweli.

Crucial Man,,,,iko shida,,,hapa,,,kwanza,,ni kuielewa hii mambo yote,,,yalivyo,, anza.

2007,,rais alikua Kibaki,,,mpinzani,,Raila Odinga.

Uchanguzi ukafanyika na,,,kutangazwa.

Raila Odinga hakupendezwa na matokeo ya huo uchanguzi.

Akatangaza mass actions ma maandamano,,,, kufanyika
kwote,,watu wakibeba mabango yalio tangaza,,,NO RAILA
NO PEACE,

People died,,raped,,displaced and a churches went up in flames with
kikuyus inside it.

These people died because Raila never got to be the president.

As simple as that.

Then comes this Argentinian,,the ICC prosecutor,, with some names.

Raila and Kibaki are not in the list,,,,why,,why,,,??????????

Uhuru and Ruto were not the presidential candidates then,,,how comes
the big ones,,,Kibaki and Raila,,the cause of 2007 mayhem,,how come
the ICC net did not catch them??????

 

[0766958894]

iko shida appo,,

 

[Jammu Africa]

Now,,you hear the same Raila,,the cause of all problems in 2007
,,proclaiming that justice must be done,,to the same people,,he
caused all those problems.

How did the ICC conduct its investigations,,, IPD's did put those
question to the current prosecutor,,Bensuda when she came to
Kenya,,they asked her,,"how did you get your witnesses,,how
come no one from the ICC,,,has ever came to us and
interrogated us".

This was said to her,,in all the camps she visited,,,she had
no answers to them.

This is the questions,,,how did the office of the prosecutor
got the so called,,witnesses.

We have the answers for we live in Kenya and knows what
happens here.

The one shouting,,,'Mwizi',,,,most of the times,,,,is the real
mwizi.

We know certain organizations funded by foreigners,,like Africog,,
that,,it has been doing some unknown businesses with this,,ICC.

Then you want us to take ICC serious,,,we must be very damned
to do that.

This time,,,we are going to stand strong and face who ever thinks
that,,he,,,,she can just step on to our toes and expect us to
just keep quite,,,because we are,,Africans.

 

[Jammu Africa]

Time when we feared people just because they were white,,,,
or you believe everything a white man says or writes,,is gone.

What did this stupid eti international community did when
Rwandans were butchering each other.

People there died,,numbers going into millions,,what about
Somalia,,,did we in Kenya spend our own resources to
bring some sort peace there.

Or are they punishing and humiliating us for try to act
big,,as in,, Somalia.

Is this not the,,main reason?????

Time for Africa to stand up and be counted with others.

Kenya is not in flames,,,,let them do something for Egypt
first,,before poking their stupid,,white noses in Kenya.

Can they stop the sun from rising and setting.

To hell with the west,,America and the British.

They killed more people in the world,,for them
to turn around and talk about justice,,in Kenya.

What did Americans do,,,when Kenyans suffered
the bombings of 1998,,when they were the main
targets,,by Al-Kaidas.

we suffered,,because of them.

Did they offer any kind of compensation.

No,,they left us licking our own wounds.

Saying that Africans dies all the time.

Now,,,,hear them talk of justice.

If you fear them because they are white,,
in Kenya,,we are going do,,differently from
others in Africa,,,though AU is with us.

Mang'aa,,kumbe ndio hufaulu katika hii dunia.

You have to be a big head,,to live better in
this damning world.

Try to be,,humble and meek,,the African
style,,,watachukua hata bibi yako,,na
wakurudishie baada ya kumalizana
naye.

Then,,you tell him,,,thanx,,boss,,African
way.🙂:smile-big:🙂

That is,,cooperation.

 

[Hute]

hata ile mara ya kwanza walikurupuka walipoona wamechelewa kuunda mahakama yao, wamekumbuka shuka wakati kumekucha, wakasema kesi irudi kenya kwasababu kenya wataweza kuiendesha wenyewe....walikuwa wapi mwaka mzima hadi kofi anani aliwashauri hadi akachoka...wakenya ni kichekesho cha dunia. uhuru kenyatta na ruto wanahangaika sana pengine wameona maji ya shingo, na ubaya zaidi nasikia mashahidi walio wengi walikuwa liften wanaishi na wamefichwa ulaya, hao waliopo kenya wameshatishwa wakaamua kukataa kwenda kutoa ushahidi wamejitoa. ila mashahid wapo kibao ulaya wanatunzwa hadi siku ya kesi.

 

[Ngongo]

UhuRuto imekula kwao hata kama wakijitoa lazima wajibu mashtaka ICC.

 

[Crucial Man]

jamu Africa...why was kibaki sworn in the night? kama alishinda bila udanganyifu kwa nini hakutangazwa kama kawaida,,,nakumbuka that day nilikuwa naangalia tz yule mwenyekiti wa tume ya uchaguzi bw kivuitu alipelekwa chumba cha siri na NSIS na kutangaza kibaki mshindi..within a min stage ilishaandaliwa na rais kuapishwa ikulu usiku wa giza..
kikuyus you are always selfish nani asiyejua hilo,sasa mnaandaa stage ya kuwaibia wakenya vizuri kwa sababu mnajua hakuna Big brother (ICC)wawajibisha...hili swala la kujitoa ICC the only person ambae anaweza kushabikia ni wewe na bunch og goons ambao you are blinded by tribal and selfish motives.
you kenyas you act as if you are short sighted kias kwamba mnazania uhururuto watatawala milele,ipo siku mtakuja kutawaliwa na Rais dictator au jeshi kupindua nchi na kutawala kwa mkono wa chuma sijui mtakimbilia wapi...badala ya ku focus kuwasaidia wananchi wanalia maisha magumu few junk mme gang up kuwatetea criminals ambao siku zao za kutawala zinaesabika..
ni jambo la hatari sana kuwa boot linker hata vitu muhimu kwa ustawi wa jamii mnachukulia kikabila tuu.na mkileta mchezo hao mabwana zenu hawatorudi mbaka kesi itakapoisha au kama vipi wasiende kabisa.mark my words :smile-big:

• :smile-big::A S-fire1:
  
  

 

[Globu]

Ishakua tabu sasa.

 

[COURTESY]

Kwa hili wanazidi kujivua nguo...no way out uhuruto

 

[Utingo]

kwa kitendo hicho, wameshajihukumu. Ruto harudi akienda wiki ijayo.

 

[Dr. Ng'ida D. Mollel]

Kama hivi ndivyo, basi sanduku la kura halifai kutupatia viongozi.

 

[Ben Saanane]

Wehu..Muda huu kesi ya Uhuru inarushwa Live kupitia Citizen Tv

 

[chash]

you put it so simply, can you give us example which ICC murder thug, and rapist labelled convict has ever been prosecuted. remember even mao-zedong chinses killed over 40 million of chinese, but such people are never labeled murderers, rapist, or thugs on account of the color of their skin..

you need to liberate yourselves from arguments bordering on excessive chauvinisms....your intention is to see the president and his deputy locked but i know you cannot even explain the reason why there are communities still fighting in transmara district of kenya, and yet we have ICC indicted leaders from kenya..the conflict problem is still deeply rooted....it is also not the kikuyuy and the kalenjin fighting over land and resources.....so, a very plain and naive thinking about the ICC as the solution to curb such 'murders' and fighting between communities does not offer a mature solution...

The other problem is that most of TZ here are 'daft', and do not argue according what history dictates....kenya nearly broke into civil war in 2008, but since then there has not been any major incidences apart from tana river and now moyale and transmara!

I was not aware that I wanted the president and his deputy locked. However the game they are now bringing into play is equivalent to a guilt confession. It reminds me of the book 'The animal farm' where all animals were equal but some ended up becoming more equal than others. Every law in Kenya is now going to change so as to please and favor the president and his assistant. They should have had the guts to stand trial and win without trying to amend laws that protect Kenyans against tyrants. However if they did a little of what they are accused of, you can be sure that bad guys never win and if they continue with their gymnastics then some tribes will refuse to be led by them and Kenya will be kaput.

Meanwhile in blue is what I would call ushuzi. I do not see where Tanzanians come in, in the trials of gangsters, thugs, rapists and murderers. I recommend strongly that Tanzania leaves the congregation of fools who change laws to suit themselves without thinking of the future generation. They even have the audacity to compare Kenya with US, China and Russia. By the time you know it you will be led by the worst dictators the world has ever seen. Sick sick

 

[Kiyoya]

Bila shaka uchaguzi ujao wanampango wa kuzichapa kavu kavu!

 

[Kabaridi]

I was not aware that I wanted the president and his deputy locked. However the game they are now bringing into play is equivalent to a guilt confession. It reminds me of the book 'The animal farm' where all animals were equal but some ended up becoming more equal than others. Every law in Kenya is now going to change so as to please and favor the president and his assistant. They should have had the guts to stand trial and win without trying to amend laws that protect Kenyans against tyrants. However if they did a little of what they are accused of, you can be sure that bad guys never win and if they continue with their gymnastics then some tribes will refuse to be led by them and Kenya will be kaput.

Meanwhile in blue is what I would call ushuzi. I do not see where Tanzanians come in, in the trials of gangsters, thugs, rapists and murderers. I recommend strongly that Tanzania leaves the congregation of fools who change laws to suit themselves without thinking of the future generation. They even have the audacity to compare Kenya with US, China and Russia. By the time you know it you will be led by the worst dictators the world has ever seen. Sick sick

if the ICC is the representation of international justice, then I better stick to our local justice system. instead of playing around with words, why don't you explain to us why those named under the waki report, reduced and became ocampo six, then further reduced to ocampo four, then reduced faurhter to ocampo three....

there were reports that (ruto jubilee) met with kosgey (cord) at his home to plan the kiambaa killings. what went wrong, did kosgei bribe his way out or what???

i woun't back anyone who is supporting anything that is foolish...yes we can bow down because ni wakubwa....but kenyans do not need an outside organization to deal with thier issues now or in the future...what kenya needs is a strong justice system that does not cow in to the status cuo or any politician just because you had a history...

...the reason why I recommend ICC is to keep in check irresposnible governments that want to use state machienry to advance tribal war...i would rahter ICC prosecute the the former regime for failing to avert a civil war, with its constitutuional mandate resources...

entrenching tribal war is not included in the new constitution

you unreservedly mention the the US, for all i know kenya is better than the US...one fool continued to cover the US over its role in the syrian Iraq and afhganistan deaths that it is a military power. deaths of civillians are deaths whether they happen in africa asia afghanistan or wherever.

on that point alone I am surprised that anybody is able to root for a justice system that lacks consistency and is discriminatory.

then unless you are confessing lies, what makes you think that any dictactor has the capacity of clinching the presidency of kenya let alone entering statehouse, having a new constitution that give explanations on how to deal with a dictator. you should fear for tz because your old constitution is vague on dealing with a 'dictator'

...do not forget our current constitutional reforms not forgetting judicial reforms have made it difficult for any potential dictaors and those using short-cut mechanisms to get the presidency...

 

[Dr. Job]

Canada slams Rome Statute pullout.

The Canadian government has criticised Kenya's latest attempt to withdraw from the Rome Statute.

The Canadian High Commissioner to Kenya David Angell said the move to repeal the International Criminal Act is an attempt to 'defend impunity and defeat justice'.

Speaking on the sidelines of the launch of a book 'Ethnicity, Nationhood and Pluralism: Kenyan Perspective' by the Ottawa-based Global Center for Pluralism in Nairobi yesterday, Angell said ICC member states have a common endeavour to seek justice.

He said measures domesticated in member countries and the court's jurisdiction is one that is ratified voluntarily.

"The ICC was established to fight serious crimes against humanity and withdrawing from its jurisdiction will only cement further abuse of human rights and impunity," he said.

He stressed that the Canadian government 'strongly' supports the ICC's mandate saying that justice for the post-election violence victims must be pursued.

He asked the government not to politicize the cases currently at the court.

"The cases are judicial and not political.The victims of the post-election violence are still waiting for justice to be served and the debate won't do any good to the victims and suspects," he said.

"The court is Kenyan and belongs to everyone. Kenya signed the statute voluntarily and dismissing it as colonial is being insincere," he said.

Canada is among 122 member countries that ratified the Rome statute.

The National Assembly has recently approved a motion that seeks to withdraw Kenya from the Rome Statute and repeal the International Criminal Act that binds the country to cooperate with the Hague-based court.


Canada slams Rome Statute pullout | The Star

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

...do not forget our current constitutional reforms not forgetting judicial reforms have made it difficult for any potential dictaors and those using short-cut mechanisms to get the presidency...

I find this statement disingenous and full of balderash knowing very well the electoral body is beholden to the
incumbent. Unatutupia changa la macho mkuu mwenzangu.

Meanwhile here is the official position of The kenya Govt on ICC (forget the bravado and sideshows)

Government to continue cooperation with ICC - Esipisu

The government has not exerted itself on the question of withdrawing from the International Criminal Court and repealing the Rome Statute that binds Kenya to the Hague-based court.

This is according to a press address issued by the government spokesperson Manoah Esipisu at the Nairobi State House grounds.

Esipisu however said that President Uhuru Kenyatta and Deputy President William Ruto will make an official statement on the topic as and when they settle on it.
Esipisu's statement on withdrawal from the ICC follows two special sessions in the Senate Assembly and the National Assembly in which bills were introduced to both houses to set in motion legislations to withdraw Kenya from the ICC.

Esipisu further added that the government can only make a decision once the motions have been voted on after which the Attorney General Githu Muigai will be tasked with drafting the required legislation for the process.

Esipisu however mentioned that while President Uhuru Kenyatta is committed to continue with cooperating with the ICC, he "was deeply troubled" by the accusations leveled against DP Ruto by the prosecutor of the ICC, Fatou Bensouda at the opening of his trial and that of former radio presenter Joshua Arap Sang.
President Uhuru Kenyatta himself is scheduled to make a trip to the ICC for the opening of his case on November 12.

Esipisu during his statement also said that Agriculture Cabinet Secretary Felix Koskei is in talks with South American nations Brazil and Argentina, as well as the European nations of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Slovakia and Japan who have expressed interest in establishing fertilizer plants in Kenya and possibly supply machinery to improve farming in the country.

Esipisu also added that the garage of JKIA's terminal four will be converted to the internationals arrivals lounge starting today even as the construction of the temporary terminal is expedited.

In his brief on the Kenya at 50 celebration, Esipisu said a new 21 member task force has been set up to plan the celebrations and will be headed by the Sports and Gender Cabinet Secretary Dr Wario. The new secretariat will work with a budget of Sh500 million which is a fifth of the original budget of Sh2.5 billion.

Esipisu while addressing the issue of the 16 per cent VAT Bill that since implementation has seen an escalation in the price of basic commodities, does not include a variety of processed and none-processed foodstuffs.

He said that traders who have hiked prices on account of the VAT bill are being malicious as it does not apply to all food items. The government spokesperson wound up by saying that the remaining IDP camps will be closed by September 15.

Government to continue cooperation with ICC - Esipisu | The Star

 

[Kabaridi]

I find this statement disingenous and full of balderash knowing very well the electoral body is beholden to the
incumbent. Unatutupia changa la macho mkuu mwenzangu.

Meanwhile here is the official position of The kenya Govt on ICC (forget the bravado and sideshows)

Government to continue cooperation with ICC - Esipisu

The government has not exerted itself on the question of withdrawing from the International Criminal Court and repealing the Rome Statute that binds Kenya to the Hague-based court.

This is according to a press address issued by the government spokesperson Manoah Esipisu at the Nairobi State House grounds.

Esipisu however said that President Uhuru Kenyatta and Deputy President William Ruto will make an official statement on the topic as and when they settle on it.
Esipisu's statement on withdrawal from the ICC follows two special sessions in the Senate Assembly and the National Assembly in which bills were introduced to both houses to set in motion legislations to withdraw Kenya from the ICC.

Esipisu further added that the government can only make a decision once the motions have been voted on after which the Attorney General Githu Muigai will be tasked with drafting the required legislation for the process.

Esipisu however mentioned that while President Uhuru Kenyatta is committed to continue with cooperating with the ICC, he "was deeply troubled" by the accusations leveled against DP Ruto by the prosecutor of the ICC, Fatou Bensouda at the opening of his trial and that of former radio presenter Joshua Arap Sang.
President Uhuru Kenyatta himself is scheduled to make a trip to the ICC for the opening of his case on November 12.

Esipisu during his statement also said that Agriculture Cabinet Secretary Felix Koskei is in talks with South American nations Brazil and Argentina, as well as the European nations of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Slovakia and Japan who have expressed interest in establishing fertilizer plants in Kenya and possibly supply machinery to improve farming in the country.

Esipisu also added that the garage of JKIA's terminal four will be converted to the internationals arrivals lounge starting today even as the construction of the temporary terminal is expedited.

In his brief on the Kenya at 50 celebration, Esipisu said a new 21 member task force has been set up to plan the celebrations and will be headed by the Sports and Gender Cabinet Secretary Dr Wario. The new secretariat will work with a budget of Sh500 million which is a fifth of the original budget of Sh2.5 billion.

Esipisu while addressing the issue of the 16 per cent VAT Bill that since implementation has seen an escalation in the price of basic commodities, does not include a variety of processed and none-processed foodstuffs.

He said that traders who have hiked prices on account of the VAT bill are being malicious as it does not apply to all food items. The government spokesperson wound up by saying that the remaining IDP camps will be closed by September 15.

Government to continue cooperation with ICC - Esipisu | The Star

You are forgetting that the officials in the IEBC were vetted and endorsed jointly by a team comprising of CORD and PNU legislators. They did not end up there by themselves. It is open knowledge which political party and its leader have been carrying messages of disparagment against institutions that are to support democracy.

Since the beggining, CORD has always tried to forcefully campaign against those in charge of those reformed institutions, in a bid that they go against the philosphy of the positions they hold and their personal integrity.

These accusations against the electoral body have just been allegations that cord have always failed to link evidence..Before the end of the THIRD REICH era in germany, there was a propaganda ministry, that had almost a simmilar objective, that a lie told severally would automatically become a truth without need to link any evidence.

It would have been better if that party would have strenghtened democracy by accepting outcomes without pegging unneccesarry hate campaigns on the people chosen to run them. The Loosers have never been captured in the media making public declarations of accepting defeat if they fall short of a victory,

It is a bitter pill for the loosers to swallow and it will more complicated for them if they do not accept the Kenya is a maturing and a reformed democracy....it will be even be harder for them if our democracy matures further because self intererests become less and less significant for anyone...

It is too early to even celebrate about the ICC, but I was surprised the other day when I heard kalonzo pleading to Uhuru not to sign the motion of withdrawal from the ICC having done the infamous 'shuttle diplomacy'.... if the owners of the ICC 'project' and its allies are starting to feel they are becoming vulnerable, it only tells me that kenya has been on the correct path since the begginning, of reform and its reform efforts have not been in vain ( i.e. judicial system and electoral system)..

....The desire for some leaders to openely spread hate campaigns against these institutions at the expense of the kenyan, only exposes the inherent nature of some of our leaders, of inconsistenty and immoral greed...they only care more about their next destination, rather than focusing wholely on the nation and where it can be fifty years from now.....

Whatever is happening at the ICC clears all doubt that was being propagated by CORD that the election was stolen from him, because the communities that suffered as a result of the violence overwhelimgly voted in the same people that are being accused at the hague

.... the OTP have made matters complex for themselves and the ICC because they did not dedicate themselves to find the correct concrete evidence even though they might have a genuine case.