CONFIRMED: January Makamba kugombea Bumbuli


Thanks Sule, your post is real interesting.However, I need your clarification, you need Makamba in the house because he is a kid, educated or because he is capable?

Because we have young MPs, we have professors and yet are silent thats why you are mentioning Zitto(1/250)!

Being in Tanzania or abroad thats not an issue here, we should not make our argument based on that. Neither that I have mentioned any where in my posts that JM should not go on with his plan.

My take is that; for young, energetic, smart and intelligent person like JM(the way others are defining him) he should have the unique and different plan and probably looking another way of helping people rather than being MP! CCM as a whole have tendency of making votes in the house and decide anything that favour CCM! JM will be like them! . I dont see the light at the end of tunnel, I have never seen any MP from ruling party that has stood for Tanzanian, Zito is in opposition side leave him from this.

I may be dreaming, if JM will go against his party while he is MP he may be the first one!

can't we help or work for the public while we are not MPs?

I have witnessed many elections and every elections new people are coming in, Wea are having hopes and fighting each other like this. I have never seen those guys perform as we thought. Is this not a reason to be suspicious!

Lastly, dont you his own party will be a barrier towards any good plan that JM will have! thats my question arises is he smart in his smart brain to have a project that you are sure is neither feasible nor viable;

I am just saying because he is "smart"; smart people must decide things smartly, I dont see if JM is smart,he has his own agenda. May be I am wrong.

Suleiman, I hope you have got me. Is it Ok, for him to go On for election, it is ok for him to decide anythinG he want that is democracy. The question is will he make a difference? do we have a solid ground to believe that he will do wonders!

Ok, you are dashing to Posta from Gongolamboto and you are in the daladala that you are sure it will never bring you to Posta! why cant you find another way of reaching Posta to accomplish the same intent. is this a smarter! or you have hidden agenda?


If our argument will be ni haki ya kila mtu kugombea! then it is is Ok, but if we go bit further than this statement and dig deep we may find things that we are always crying!

If JM were my close friend I would not advised him to go for this position. By his capacity and connection he can help many Tanzania through many ways! nd he could do great things. I was just questioning his smartness, I believe these 47yrs we know a lot intelectually that does not need a lecture.
 
Bao3 said:
Makamba kamwingiza January kwenye system, na January pia atamwingiza mwanae kwenye system kisha atabaki humo. Wengine wote watabaki kuwa waongozwa for life na wengine waongoza for life. Let's allow other family trees as well please!!
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Mkuu ishu sio wao kurithishana uongozi, Makamba J. anaweza kabisa akawa tofauti na baba yake. Ishu ni kuwa hawa wote ni intelectual wana akili wanajua uwezo wa baba zao. na wanajua malengo yao ni nini! kuleta mapinduzi au kuendeleza same story?.

are they ready to go on the same system that their parent are in? who made them to enter this system , personal ambition or parent's interest? why they want to go in! if we will not ask these questions tukabaki na kusema ni haki yake kidemokrasia tumekwisha!

personally naangalia possibility ya haa jamaa kuleta mabadiliko ndani ya vyama vyao na systeme hii hii, kumbuka sisemi wanede upinzani, uko nako is even worse than can tell you!
 

Ndio maana nimesema ni wakati sasa wa wananchi kusema hawataki mtindo kama huo wa kuwaacha watu fulani peke yao ndio waongoze wakati siku hizi watu wengi wamesoma. Hata kama kutakua na uchaguzi kuna baadhi ya watu vijisent walivyonavyo baba zao vitawapa ushindi tu kwa demokrasia changa kama za tz ambazo hata uchaguzi wa chipukizi watoto wameingiza hela. Hakuna cha kujua kuongoza wala nini,ni nguvu za baba zao. Si ajabu ukichunguza utasikia hata huyo JM katumwa akagombee.

Kuna story moja naikumbuka na sitakuja niisahau ktk life za hapa bongo. Kuna jamaa siku moja nimeonana nae ofisi fulani akanambia anasubiri interview. Nikamwuliza mbona hatushtuani wakati wote tunatafuta kibarua mjini, akasema: "mwenyewe wala nilikua sijui, mama kanituma nije kwenye interview. Kwanza hata kazi yenyewe siipendi,basi tu" ..Bongo tambarare bana!
 

That is another way of looking a matter, je mzazi wake ana influence gani katika ishu nzima ya uchaguzi, anaweza kushinda mwenyewe hata kama baba yake hakuwa mtu mkubwa?

Pili nikadai kuambiwa achievement ambazo huyu JM amezifanya , kufanya mambo katika jamii hakuanzii unapokuwa mbunge! kafanya kitu gani that we can say he is capable? kuwa msaidizi wa rais haitoshi!nikauliza anasaidia tu hatoi ushauri? maana ukiniambia kiongozi halafu yuko ikulu na JK ndiyo huyu tunaye napata wasiwasi, ye my assumtpions may be wrong, but I have assumed we have long history ya kuonyesha kuwa JM atakuwa kama waliopita he is another Kingunge miaka 50 ijayo!
 
Field Marshall--Shukrani kaka. Naona tuko pamoja katika hili.

Waberoya, mzee Matumla alikuwa bondia, watoto wake ended up being famous boxers hapo nyumbani. Archie Manning was an NFL quarterback for the Saints, watoto wake Peyton and Eli are playing quarterback in NFL now. Joe Kennedy was a US ambassador to UK during FDR times, Jack, Bobby, and Ted Kennedy all ended up being politicians. Laurent Kabila was a president of Congo, so as Joseph Kabila. George Romney was a governor of Michigan, his son Mitt Romney was a governor of Massachusetts. Zahir Zoro is a talented old school singer, his son Banana Zoro is a famous musician as well. We can go all along with Hamza Kalala and his son Kalala Jr, Nguza Viking, Ernest and Max Pauer etc. Sasa Yusuf Makamba na January Makamba wadau wanapiga makelele.

I think you have shifted your argument, it is no longer kwamba he is not qualified (becaue I think he is), but you are making a case kwamba he doesn't have to be a mbunge to influence maendeleo, and he will end up being used by CCM. Fine, I do not agree with you but we can't have a fact based argument basing on speculations and biased prophecy. If he prefer being a mbunge to bring about maendeleo rather than in private sector hiyo sio ishu yetu sisi kujudge. Let us debate on is he qualified? (yes), does he have a right kugombea ubunge? (yes), does he have a competitive edge because his father is Mzee Makamba? (yes). And that is life, it is called sperm lottery! you can't knock him for being born by Mzee Makamba. Just like you can't discredit Rashid Matumla because his father was a boxer.
 
Yeeeeeeh!

Me ni wa Mwanza lakini nitampa li kura rangu!
 

I have not shifted my argument, refer my posts, kila mmoja humu anazungumza anavyoona yeye, do not generalise , some say he is not qualified at all, I have given you what I think.

This post is far from my standpoints, you are relating between fathers and their sons! my argument since beginning is that JM should stand alone without considering his father! ukitoa story zako hizo well, unamweka JM kwenye kona mbaya, huwezi ukamweka plate moja mzee makamba na mtoto wake! senior Makamba is dirty! take that is dirty! form your narration you want people to say well kwa sababu Makamba mkubwa mwizi basi dogo naye atakuwa mwizi. You real need to be careful when making argument like this! Talent and leadership!!

I will not be against you, if your power of thinking, observing and knowing this country made you to believe that J. Makamba can bring changes or development in Bumbuli under CCM! well go on. history will always be there to judge us and ask us 'did you think critically'?

However, you have failed to argue based on our experience; how are we sure that JM will not be influenced by his party's(CCM) interests! We have seen even those prominent figures like Mwakyembe they are yielding to CCM when matters of defending it arises. can you?

Ukitaka mjadala usiwe mgumu unaweza kutoa mfano wa mbunge/wabunge wa CCM ambaye unafikiri amesababisha mwamko, maendeleo na kasimama kidete hata wakati mwingine kwenda kinyume na matakwa ya chama! unless you are confirming to me that CCM has always been good since then. remember we have more than 250MPs.

Those who assumed that JM will be bad leader just because his father is a bad leader (if not comedian) they are dead wrong, those assumptions failed. We are now hypothesizing that JM will be a good leader, but this hypothesis should be supported by certain facts, theories or even empirical principles at least we can go on with him to Bumbuli. If we can not prove this then he will ended up like others CCM-I mean same story !

I know one guy in CCM his name is Nape at least I can say he may ended up challenging his mentors and thrown out the party, if he was serious! Makamba?? please let me believe is not another delusion

Unanikumbusha kitabu cha tumaini lililorejea!
 

Fine,

Then let's stop this bs kwamba Tanzania is a classless society, with eaqual access to all. We might as well declare black on black apartheid and put some people into some homelands while bestowing knighthood, Maharajahood and Sultanhood on others.Sheesh.

Tujue moja kwamba ukizaliwa katika familia ya mchimba chumvi you are almost certainly destined to be a mbeba chumvi, just like medieval europe.They used to call that "knowing your station in life". By the way mizizi ya racism, the Aryan nation, Nazism and all these white supremacy bullshyt theories are essentially rooted in the same theory. I thought Napoleaon, the enlightenment, the Revolutionary War, the Bolshevik, the rare and more benevolent aspects of Mao, and the Fabians, in our case, most notably by Nyerere took care of that.How wrong was I.

Hayo mawazo uliyoyatoa hapo juu ni hatari sana, kwa sababu deep underneath hayako progressive, yanajenga class and caste systems. Kama unavyotaka watu wasi-m judge January vibaya kutokana na pedigree yake, vile vile unatakiwa ujue kwamba watu hawatakiwi kum judge favorably kwa sababu ya pedigree yake. Kuna failures wengi - kina Hussein Mwinyi na Charles Nyerere- just to mention two, ambao wametoka katika hizi so called political pedigrees.

January Makamba inabidi awajibu wananchi kwamba alimaanisha nini aliposema "A million flies can't be wrong, they eat shit" huku akiwafananisha watanzania wanao vote against their interests (CCM) na a million flies who eat shit. Labda anaelewa kwamba CCM ni tatizo, lakini kama ni hivyo ametumiaje influence yake kubadili mambo? the fact kwamba baba yake ni party general secretary haiwezi kuwa ignored in this aspect.

Kama anafikiri CCM ndio tatizo kwa nini bado yuko humo?

Kama anaamini CCM ndicho chama bora, basi hatufai kabisa, especially kwa sababu hakuna appreciable change anazoweza kutuambia kwamba ka contribute significantly for the last five years.

If anything, the ascent of January is poised to produce another arrogant, good for nothing, drunk, entitlement ridden, self promoting courtier posing as policy wonk, a poor person's Mkapa (in the worst possible interpretation of the idion).

At least with the Kikwetes of this world, one can excuse them on the basis of their lack of cometency.

The Mkapas and Januarys of this world will drive us to a ditch with their political partisanship while actually possessing the ability to introduce not onlly radical political reforms, but Deng Xiaoping style economic reforms.

Mark my words, and if the server does not crash and erase all our posts, you wanna revisit this thread in 5 years.For I fear he will be elected and god forbid my worst nightmares will be realized.

Sperm lotterry my foot, more like cracpot genetics theories. Hell, even if you are right, if Yusufu Makamba is any example of how January will be then he is not the right person.

I hope I am wrong, but I cannot help butt feel the cynicism.
 

Kaka, this is a good debate to have.
I have associated Yusuf and January Makamba on the basis of their shared interest in politics, and not otherwise. I have no way of knowing if Mzee Makamba is dirty or not. Unless I adopt a populist rhetoric and call everybody a fisadi. Which I refused to. It is just intellectually impotent. Yes there is corruption bongo, but we have been blaming everything on ufisadi. Mtu kachelewa kwenda kazini analaumu mafisadi, mtoto wake kafeli Form 4 analaumu mafisadi. It is getting ridiculous.

Why should January "stand alone without considering his father"? That would be laughable if he does that. He is running for MP under CCM, and his father is SG for CCM and you want him to throw that wealth of experience, contacts, and connection away? Yaani you want him to disarm wakati yuko vitani? Also, if you have children you will understand that parents want their children to succeed. I believe Yusuf Makamba as a parent will want to help his son to succeed, as long as it is legal and acceptable wabongo need to understand that.

I think our argument is halted by our ideological differences. You do not trust CCM and their establishment. That January will get stuck in establishment (if he is not in there already). I think CCM and only them have the infrastructure and capacity to bring about maendeleo, that is--if they adopt new policies. So the task to convince you otherwise is beyond my pay grade kaka, and Im sure you wouldn't convince otherwise. But moving forward, we should look at upinzani and CCM past their rhetoric and analyze their ability to bring about sustainable development.
 

My friend, I dont believe in opposition parties either. I have asked you our hypothesis to sell JM as MP material. Sadly, we are going back to his father! his father is his mentor! Do you know Makamba and his credibility within CCM? which arms do you think JM will take from his father? money? which experience how to steal votes?

I knew, it was totally impossible for you to convince me how far are you sure that JM will be a good leader, I am happy that you have admitted. But if you would have known him closely and see how is performing his daily works you could prove here. I have asked people who are close to him at state house they are just giving me his CV!!

Issue here is so simple we dont need meandering; CCM has proven failure over 40yrs; how JM as JM will make things differently? if we believe that he can without any solid grounds we will be making the same mistake.

Suleiman, leaders are prepared, hauamki asubuhi na kukurupuka tu kuwa unataka kuwa kiongozi! sisemi JM kakurupuka la! if he planned this let say two yrs ago, angejiyatarisha basi, hata kwenda kujulikana kwao. watu wengine wanajitayarisha kwa kufanya kazi za maendeleo ya kijamii, kuhamasisha kama kwenye ishu za mafuriko (mfano) kupanda miti(n.k) . I am telling you the decision that you want to be a leader is a big thing if you are real leader!

Kama JM hakujitayarisha for the past two or one years , leo anasema anataka ubunge sehemu ambayo hata hajulikani, is this make sense? is this alone not disqualifying him?

Selemani, can you real convince me kuwa kuna mtu credible mwenye uchungu na nchi hii yuko ndani ya CCM! Wenzetu wakiona mambo hayaendi kulingana na wanachoamini mbona huwa wana resign?? kwa miaka 5 sasa CCM ina magunia ya tuhuma, hatujaona mtu wa kusema -I am resigning! huyo makamba alitakiwa awe ameondoka siku nyingi sana , kuonyesha yuko against na mafisadi!

If someone will wake up today and makes us believe that, we still have hope in CCM! I question, achilia mbali kijana mnayemwita smart aingie humo humo eti ataleta mabadiliko!
 
Yaelekea ataleta mabadiliko sana humo tanga kwa mujibu wa mleta mada. Labda kama ana cha ziada mtueleze. Au ndo yaleyale ya kuendeleza kizazi cha viongozi? Kwa mwendo huu itafika siku tutajikuta rais ni mtoto wa JK, waziri mkuu mtoto wa mwinyi, makamu wa rais mtoto wa nnauye, spika mtoto wa kawawa, mawaziri ni watoto wa vigogo waliotangulia, n.k. Tusiendekeze sana huu mfumo
 

They will never tell that! they will only say he is smart and intelligent, mtu smart na intelligent unaweza ukawa mwana CCM kweli?

I believe those guys in Bumbuli they know who suits them, lakini huyo mwana CCM maskini hatapata support ya mtu yeyote wa juu!

Leaders wana wajibu wa kutengeneza viongozi wa kesho, wanaweza kuwa monitor na kuwajua kina nani wanafaa, hii system hatuna! wanabaki kuwaambia watoto wao!

makosa yaleyale ya JN alifail kutengeneza viongozi wa aina yake tukapata mabomu ya kurusha kwa mkono.
 

Kaka, what is wrong with CV? kwani ukiomba kazi sehemu si unatuma kwanza CV then basing on that CV ndio unaitwa kwenye interview, halafu wanapigia simu your reference contacts na masuala mengine yanafuatia. It seems to me, you have decided to completely ignore his very simplistic advertisement of himself, his CV. Now, acknowledge the CV first then tufuatilie his performance.

Mimi I do not know him au his performance, but I think we will be able to lister/read his stump speech during campaign and frankly we can judge from there. I agree with you, leaders are prepared and basing on this kid CV it appears to me that he has been preparing himself to be a leader, now proving his perfomance will be hard for you and me to prove. That is a bet that Bumbuli people have to make on election day. I wish them luck.

Kuhusu kujitayarisha kaka. We do not know that. You are making a judgement on him basing on assumptions. Wrong! Until I know that he was never prepared to run for ubunge and decided to show up last minute-- that I will somewhat discredit him. You see, I don't know his performance at Ikulu, so I can't sell him to you basing on his job perfomance. I think the difference between us is, I'm willing to bet on him, and you are not. From what I know about him so far, it is a safe bet for me.

As far as CCM, I agree with you. Lots of incompetence across the board, hakuna masilahi ya taifa. But that goes beyond CCM. The whole country has no sense of good citizenship. The idea that nikitoa rushwa not only it is not fair for those unable to bribe, but also I'm destroying Tanzania means to attract investors. Look, TRA, Bandari, Polisi, Ardhi, Muhimbilia, everywhere kuna watu wanapiga madili. People cook epidemiology data wizara ya afya all the time, polisi wanakula rushwa everyday, unapimiwa kiwanja leo leo if you have enough mula to bribe junior officials wa wizara ya afya. Hawa watu sio mawaziri au necessarily wana CCM. These are small officers stuck in the middle of bureaucracy trying to make a living. Hizi rushwa ndogo ndogo za kila siku serikalini has a profound impact as a whole.

My point is we can't blame leaders alone, we as a country need to develop patriotism and better citizenship. It starts with our leaders, but it doesn't end with them.

Also, when you look at rushwa within our leaders. Think about this, Americans passed the Internation bribery act in 1998. Before that, Americans companies could bribe themselves into lucrative deals with African goverments and it was perfectly legal. Japan government went to the extreme level by subsidizing their international firms for bribery. With companies like Exxon Mobil whose annual revenue is a combined GDP of a lot of African economies, it easy for them to bribe a poor African minister. It is bad that our leaders are corrupted, but during privatization and implementation of SAP corruption presented itself to these guys, and some of them couldn't resist.
 
duh!

hii thread imerudi tena huku!

sasa kwa wanaompinga JM kwa nini wasitueleze sababu gani wanampinga? at the end of the day true renewal will only come when we become closer to the people. Let's take a good look at the Britain we have been a part of creating, look at what works and what doesn't. Let's return politics to the people by talking to them about their priorities
 
Selemani smacks of Curtis if you ask me. Much too much, perhaps they are ideological cousins like Bluray and Kiranga.

GT usijitie hujui kusoma, au unarukia post ya mwisho tu?
 
Kiranga said:
Selemani smacks of Curtis if you ask me. Much too much, perhaps they are ideological cousins like Bluray and Kiranga.

GT usijitie hujui kusoma, au unarukia post ya mwisho tu?
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please enlighten me!!!
 
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