East African Federation (EAF) public Views

East African Federation (EAF) public Views

Hebu imagine kama tungekua na shirikisho! Kungekua hakuna mipaka hivyo wanaokimbia maafa Kenya baada ya uchaguzi sheria ingewaruhusu kuingia kiholela tu.

Maafa haya ni makubwa, kwa maoni yangu Wakenya wanaokimbia Kenya waruhusiwe kuingia Tanzania lakini wafuate taratibu za uhamiaji.
 
Asante Kwaminchi, japo nadharia ni rahisi sana kuliko vitendo. Mara nyingi hata tunapotunga sheria kule bungeni ni rahisi sana kuandika nia yetu kwenye hayo maandishi lakini utata huja kwenye matumizi yake. Na hapo ndio mahakama huingia kuweza kusema kwamba "hivi mliposema ili mtu ajiandikishe kupiga kura zanzibar awe ameshakaa zanzibar kwa miaka mitano mfululizo" mlimaanisha nini kwa hilo neno mfululizo?. Nakubaliana na wewe kwamba yaliyopo tanzania ndio yale ya kenya uganda na tanzania lakini pia napingana na wewe kwa dhana ya ukabila. Utaifa sio ukabila. Utaifa ni jambo tukufu sana, utaifa ni muhimu kuliko ukabila na ndio maana wenzetu wa jumuiya ya Ulaya pamoja na maendeleo yao yote hawajaweza kukubali kufuta utaifa wao. Kila dhana ina mipaka, "tukienda hatua moja kwa nini zisiwe hamsini"? Tafsiri ya dhana yako inaashiria kwamba unaota ndoto tufike wakati tuwe na Rais mmoja wa bara zima la afrika, na baadaye tuwe na Rais wa dunia. Hili haliwezekani kwa jamii ya sasa,maendeleo tuliyonayo,kukua kwa kutokukubaliana na kuzikwa kwa ridhaa. Ndio maana hata Pan Africanism kwa sasa haina nguvu tena.
Naomba nieleweke kwamba sipingi ushirikiano nataka ushirikiano lakini sio wa kisiasa,sio ushirikiano wa kuua jamhuri. No, No.Hitaji letu watanzania ni maendeleo ya kiuchumi si ya kisiasa.Tufungue mipaka watu wapite wafanye kazi wafanye biashara, lakini jamhuri zibaki kuwa jamhuri. Kila nchi ijiamulie mambo yake yenyewe(sovereignty principle).Wanaokimbia machafuko waje, ndoa tuliyonayo na zanzibar bado ina utata mwingi hatuhitaji mitala ya kisiasa halafu baadaye talaka.
 
Pundit, ni kwa dhana hiyohiyo ukitambua kwamba umefanya fyongo mahali jiondoe kabla hujaondolewa(swali kabla hujaswaliwa) usisubiri siku ifike ya miti kusema,mawe kujibu na wanyama kuwa watu" jambo pekee linaloonesha busara kwa JKN ni kule kuwa tayari kukaa kando,kitu ambacho watu wengi wanashindwa sasa hadi waondoke kwa aibu. Jkn ana maovu mengi tu lakini kwa yale mazuri ndio hili la kukaa kando liigwe.
Asante kwa maoni
 
Sina budi nikushukuru sana kwa shule uliyonipa Ndugu Augustoons. Utukufu wa Utaifa unatokana na utukufu wa Makabila yaliyokubaliana kuwa pamoja kama Taifa. Bila ya utukufu wa Makabila, utukufu wa Taifa haupatikani. Na vivyo, utukufu wa Ukabila hauwezekani bila ya utukufu wa Ukoo na huo nao, hali kadhalika hauna maana bila ya utukufu wa familia. Hayo ndio matofali (bricks/fabrics) za Taifa. unapoacha kutambua kitu kinachojenga Taifa ni rahisi sana kuliporomosha Taifa lenyewe.

Osagyefo Kwame Nkrumah (one of the authors of Pan Africanism) alikwisha tuonya mwaka 1957 kwamba wakati wa kuunda serikali moja ya Afrika nzima ulikuwa ni pale pale nchi za Afrika zinapojikomboa kutoka kwa Wakoloni. Akasema, tukishazoea kupeperushiwa bendera na kupigiwa mizinga na kujitambua kwa mipaka bandia, tuliyowekewa na hawa Wakoloni, bila ya ridhaa yetu wenyewe, itakuwa vigumu sana kwetu kuungana kisiasa, kibiashara na kijamii. Na hilo ndilo ninaloliona kwako na kwa wengi wetu. Na ndilo hilo tatizo liliopo kati ya Tanganyika na Zanzibar. Zanzibar bado wanalilia U-Taifa wao. Kwa mujibu wa maelezo yako ya utukufu wa U-Taifa, kwa hiyo, ungependelea Zanzibar warejeshewe utukufu wa U-Taifa wao, au sivyo?

Mimi sioni hata kimoja cha maana sana kinachokosekana, hata kwenye State moja tu, kati ya States zote 50 (hamsini) za Amerika (USA) katika kupoteza utaifa wao wa awali. Hivi sasa, wengi wetu, tunazitafsiri hizi states kama majimbo/mikoa. Tunasahau kuwa hizi ni nchi, kama nchi zingine zozote tunazozijua. Tofauti ni kuwa hizi zimeungana kishirikisho. Shirikisho lililopita katika matatizo makubwa yaliyohitimishika kwa vita kubwa sana ya wenyewe kwa wenyewe.

La msingi kati yangu mimi nawe na lenye kuridhisha ni kwamba sote tunakubaliana juu ya umuhimu wa shirikisho la Afrika ya Mashariki. Mwenzangu unataka lisiwe la kisiasa ila la kibiashara,. Nami nataka tupigie hatua moja kubwa zaidi, tujiunge kisiasa. Si vibaya tukapiga hatua moja moja. Moja baada ya nyingine. Lakini, lengo kuu libaki pale pale, kuelekea katika kuunda serikali moja ya Afrika. Sio kila kitu kilichhoshindikana EU kishindikane AFRIKA. Mungu mrehemu Mzee Kwame Nkrumah. Amiin.
 
Hii ndiyo hasa dhima ya jambo forum kutofautiana kimawazo.Nimesoma makala yako nikajikuta natabasamu kama vile ningekuona live,anyway nashukuru kwamba tupo uelekeo mmoja japo njia tofauti.Na mawazo ya Kwame hasa aliona mbali. Kwa kutumia hiyohiyo kauli ya Kwame,hivi sasa ni vigumu kufikia hizo ndoto za kwame kwa kuwa hakuna political will,na hawa viranja wa dunia nao wanajitahidi kufanya ndoto kupotea. Tunaweza kuunda shirikisho la kisiasa sawa,lakini si kwa spidi wanayotaka viongozi wetu. Lazima twende step wise,tuweke mambo sawa.Sio kufanya mambo overnight.Hatua za kuunda shirikisho hivi sasa imegubikwa na dhamira boinafsi za viongozi wetu,wee mwenyewe ushamsikia museveni na ajenda yake ya kuwa Rais wa shirikisho kabla hajaachia ngazi.Hii inaonesha anataka sifa kuliko kile wananchi tunachokitaka.Mi sitaki kuunda shirikisho kwa sifa tuwe na nia ya dhati tudefine ipi mipaka na upi uhuru.Wenzetu hapa ulaya hata kufikia sex revolution tu walichukua takriban miaka 300,sasa sie tungekuwa na mpango wa hata miaka 25,lakini Treaty iliyounda Jumuiya ipo kimya na hata kama inatekelezwa,bado ina mapungufu mengi tunayotakiwa kuyatibu.Suala la zanzibar ndiyo ni tete nalo linatokana kabisa na hilihili tatizo ninalolisema kutochukjua mawazo ya wananchi na kuamua kupitia dhamira za viongozi. Unaweza kuniambia kwanini tuna muungano aina ya Union badala ya federation?Sisi tunamuungano aina ya union usio sahihi ndio maana tuna matatizo. Ili kuwa na muungano aina ya union ilibidi zanzibar wapoteze kabisa utaifa wao kama sisi tulivyopoteza utanganyika wetu na tuwe na serikali moja.Hii mambo ya kuwa na serikali 2 halafu tunajifanya tuna union ndio inayoleta matatizo. Taratibu tumeanza kukubali zanzibar wapewe utaifa wao. Tumewapa bunge japo tunapindisha tunasema BLW,Wana jeshi japo tunapindisha tunasema ni vikosi vya SMZ,kwa nini visiwe vikosi vya JWTZ?,Tumeapa bendera,wimbo wa taifa nk.tutawapa vingine tu wee twende tu.
Kilichopo sasa ni au kuaua kabisa kuwaondolea zanzibar utaifa wao au kuwapa uwezo wa kidola(sovereignty) ili wawe jamhuri na sisi tuwe na jamhuri ya tanzania bara au Tanganyika,halafu tuwe na serikali ya shirikisho. Lakini kama tunataka muungano aina ya union uliothabiti zanzibar waue utaifa wao. Hapo ndipo tatizo linapoanzia.
Tafsiri ya mkataba wa Montevideo juu ya maana ya nchi(state) inasema kwamba nchi ni ile yenye dola(yaani serikali,mahakama,bunge),mipaka,watu,na uwezo wa kuingia katika mikataba ya kimataifa. Ukichunguza sana utakuta kwamba zanzibar inakosa tu hiyo sifa ya mwisho. Sasa sijui hapo unasemaje?
Samahani umesema makabila yanakubaliana kuunda taifa? na hivyo kuwa muhimili wa taifa? kivipi? ni serikali gani duniani iliwahi kuundwa kwa mtindo huo. Naomba nitofautiane na wewe hapo.AU unipe maelezo zaidi kwani makabila haya navyoelewa mimi saa nyingine ndiyo yamekuwa vyanzo vya migogoro.Utaifa tunaozungumzia hapa sio Citizenship(uraia).Uraia ni hali ya kukubalika katika jamii fulani,lakini utaifa ni zaidi ya hapo. Utaifa ni uasili wa mtu au kundi la watu wa aina fulani kwa kuzaliwa,yaani watu hawa wana common origins or traditions. Kwa ufupi ni uhusiano wa mtu na nchi yake,hivyo kwa kuwa sisi au makabila ya tanzania yaliyomengi asili yao inaonekana kuwa hapa hapa ukiachilia jamii chache za mipakani ndio maana uasili wetu unabaki kuwa tanzania na sio kenya au uganda.
 
Heshima mbele!
Mimi wakuu sigusii mjadala wa utaifa kwa sasa ila naomba tu niseme kidogo uchaguzi wa Kenya. Mosi, ni kweli kulikuwa na matatizo na hila. Kweli uchaguzi ulikuwa mbaya lakini Wakenya wengi sana walijitokeza kupiga kura. Kosa lao nini mpaka wawe wahanga wa vurugu? Hivi ni lazima polisi kuwaua waandamanaji hata kama wamerusha mawe? Wanaouawa wengi hata hawakufanya fujo yoyote. Pengine ipo haja ya kuuliza jinsi mifumo yetu ya ulinzi inavyofanya kazi, sisi hapa kwetu tunasema kuwa vyombo vya ulinzi havina itikadi za kisiasa, wao ni walinzi wa amani bila kujali nani ana mamlaka ya kisiasa. Hivi kwa wenzetu ndiyo hivyo pia? Hakuna njia nyingine ya kulumbana kisiasa bila kuchoma kanisa?

Mimi natofautiana na wanaosema kuwa vurugu hizi ni za kikabila...eti waluo wanagombana na wakikuyu. Hivi kweli pale kibera wanaishi waluo? Hakika ni mchangyiko mkubwa waluo na wakikuyu ni sehemu tu! Matukio ya uporaji mengine hata hayana uhusiano na uchaguzi, ni vijana maskini tu wanapora mali za watu kwa kutumia upenyo huu ambapo ulinzi ni mdogo (mmoja alisikika akisema nyie (tume) mnaiba usiku sisi (wananchi/vibaka?) tunaiba mchana).

Hoja yangu ni kuwa vurugu hizi ni za kimatabaka-maskini na matajiri. Wapo watu waliokata tamaa. Kwao kufa na kuishi hakuna tofauti sana maana hawana cha kujivunia na hawana cha kuwekea matumaini. Sehemu yoyote ukiwa na pengo kubwa kati ya maskini na matajiri na kukiwa na maskini wengi sana na matajiri wachache tena wanaotokana na mfumo kuwapendelea vita ni lazima! Haya ndiyo chanzo cha uchaguzi wa Kenya kutegemewa na walala hoi kama njia yao ya kujikomboa. Walidhani Raila (kwa historia yake ya upambanaji na hisia zake za usoshalisti) angeweza kuwasema watu maskini. Hali hii siyo tofauti sana na ile iliyojitokeza Afrika kusini kwa Mbeki kuangushwa ndani ya ANC na kupewa mtu ambaye watu wa kawaida wanafikiri ni mwenzao-Zuma.
 
Utamaduni wa watu wengi sana na katika sehemu nyingi sana duniani, unafuata utaratibu wa mtoto anapozaliwa, huitwa binti au bin baba. Na huyo mtoto huwa ni wa ukoo na wa kabila la baba, lakini si lazima awe wa taifa la baba.

Hakuna mtu ambaye hana kabila, kwa sababu chimbuko la kabila ni familia ambazo ndizo zinazounda ukoo, ambazo nazo hizo koo ndizo zinakamilisha kabila la mtu huyo. Kwa hiyo, kama hujui kabila lako, haina maana huna kabila.

Itakuwaje uwe na familia ukose ukoo na hatimaye kabila? Kabila linapatikana kwa damu, sio kisheria. Hakuna sheria inayoweza kukuondoa katika kabila lako. Lakini zipo sheria zinazoweza kumuondoa mtu katika taifa lake.

Babu yangu mzaa Baba alikuja kabla nchi yetu haijaitwa Tanganyika, akitokea huko kunakoitwa hivi sasa Democratic Republic of Congo. Na hii nchi yetu, ilkuwa inaitwa Afrika ya Mashariki ya Wajerumani.

Babu yangu mzaa mama alitokea Zambia, kuja Tanganyika.

Kisheria, kwa kuwa mimi nimezaliwa Tanganyika na wazazi wangu wote wawili wamezaliwa Tanganyika, mimi ni Mtanganyika na kwa utanganyika huo, kisheria mimi nakuwa Mtanzania, sawa na Mtanzania yeyote. Lakini, inaweza kupitishwa sheria wakati wowote ule, nikavuliwa utanzania wangu.

Guess what? Si Rais Kabila wala si Rais Kikwete na serikali zao, hawana uwezo wa kutunga sheria, wakanivua kabila langu. That is how powerful and honorable my tribe is. My tribe gives me my clan as well as my family ties.

Kilicho kibaya sio kuwa na kabila, kibaya ni kuwa na hulka ya ukabila. Kama ilivyo vibaya kuwa na hulka ya utaifa sio kuwa na taifa. Hakuna tofauti kati ya
kutetea utaifa na kutetea ukabila. Matokeo ni yale yale, CHUKI na HUSDA.

Imefika wakati ni lazima tutambue kuwa sisi wote ni WA-AFRIKA na hii mipaka inayogawa nchi zetu, hatukuiweka sisi. Haya ni matokeo ya historia. Mipaka hii imewagawa ndugu, majirani. Sioni tafauti ya Wamasai wa Kenya na Wamasai wa Tanzania. Nenda Tunduma/Nakonde uone mpaka wa Tanzania na Zambia, utacheka. Kwa kuwa hakuna "natural boundary" kama vile mto, bonde au mlima, watu wamejenga vinguzo vya udongo ulaya. Na kati ya nguzo hizo watu wengine wamejenga nyumba zao, jiko liko Tanzania na nyumba kubwa iko Zambia au kinyume chake,

Chukua Burundi na Rwanda. Kabla ya vita kuu ya kwanza, nchi hizo mbili zilikuwa pamoja nasi kama Afrika ya Mashariki ya Wajerumani. Nani anajua kama wakati huo na kabla ya wakati wa hao Wajerumani, kama hatukuoana na kuzaana? Kinachafanya kuwa sisi au wao kuwa na chuki baina yetu ni nini, hivi sasa? Wakwavi na Wasagara kule Mvomero wanapigana mikuki na mishale mara kwa mara, wanagombea maeneo ya kulisha wanyama na ya kulimwa. Tutawakataa hawa nchini Tanzania kama tunavyotaka kuwakataa Watusi na Warundi eti kwa kuwa wao hupigana pigana?


Kwa maoni yangu, hatuna sababu za kimsingi, ambazo hatuwezi kuzisawazisha, tukashindwa kuwa na Shirikisho la Afrika ya Mashariki.
 
Matabaka kati ya matajiri na maskini yapo kila mahali duniani. Yakizidi kutokana na uzembe wa serekali hapo ni issue. Lakini kama matajiri wanazidi kuwa matajiri kwa jitihada zao na kwa kufuata sheria kuna ubaya gani wa kuwa tajiri. Kikubwa ni kuwaeleimisha wananchi waelewe faida za utajiri na kuwajengea mazingira ya kuweza kuujenga utajiri katika misingi inayokubalika na jamii. Umaskini nao upigwe vita kwa jitihada zote kwa kusoma na kwa kuanzisha biashara na kujiwekea akiba. Kuwe na taratibu nzuri za kukopana na kupeana mitaji. Hapo ndio utaona kwa nini Wall Street hawalali kubuni njia za kujenga utajiri. Pesa haioti juu ya mti hutafutwa kwa nguvu zote na akili zote usiku na mchana. Wengine wanaamini kuwa utajiri si jambo la maana sana na hawajihangaishi kupiga vita umaskini. Wakimuona tajiri wandhani kaiba au kafanya madhambi na dhuluma. Tuondokane na fikra hizo, wanatafuta utajiri kwa njia za ufisadi utawatokea puani. Wanaochapa kazi basi watazidishiwa kama kina Warren Buffet na Bill Gates.
 
Tanzania itakuwa ya watanzania tu, sasa, na siku zote na milele daima, Amina. Eeh Mungu tuepushe na janga hili la Federation ili tusiuane kama kuku, maana though shall not kill.
 
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john mashaka said:
in the age of regional economic integration, and amalgamations in which powerful regional blocs have been created with hopes of better life, and improved economic conditions for the citizens within the blocs, we as tanzanians, must carefully study the historic nature, economic end results of such unions, before committing our nation into the hyped east african treaty

unions are good on paper and excellent when it comes to economic negotiating power for the weaker member countries. We welcome them. However, one would like to know the possibility of ratifying the east african treaty without tanzania's land being in question? If the land is a must, then i have seen death of the treaty before it is born. Let it die, because what is hiding behind the land has far reaching, diabolic consequences. And our leaders will be committing a big crime- treason- for the current and generations to come, by ratifying the treaty, which will entitle the jobless and the landless in the neighboring countries, to re-settle in tanzania.

Political analysts, economists, historians and even intellectuals will agree with me that, so far, most of the major global integrations have not benefitted some of the poorer countries, which rushed to embrace them. Romania for example, is still poor than before, and her citizen's are facing such a hard time in finding jobs in the most developed europeans nations, as they work for a fraction of what ordinary british and other europeans would work for. Beneficiaries of these economic blocs have been richer nations which have exploited poorer nations with nothing substantial in return

north american, nafta, which was to integrate united states, canada and mexico into one economic bloc, is nothing but a failed one sided project. United states border with mexico is nothing but a military zone. The so called illegal immigrants flooding the united states of america are a big strain into the american social services. The labor force from mexico into the united states faces such a hard time, from wage disparity to integration into the american society; any latino is simply a mexican and regarded illegal immigrant.

Professor ibrahim lipumba, and issa shivji objected and questioned tanzania's readiness into the amalgamation. I agree and support their concerns and stances, and anybody keen enough will do the same, due to the fact that, there are many underlying issues that needs to be addressed before such a marriage is ratified. This matter is of national concern; it is going to affect the current and our future generations, and is bigger than any political figure or political party.

It needs national consensus and not just a decision from a few leaders, as it could turn out to be a trojan horse we willingly injected into our beings. Tanzania is a sleeping economic giant which can dwarf all east african nations combined could it have patriotic leaders who have the interest of the country at heart, and not their greed. We do hope, however, that, the next few years will bring such leaders. Therefore, the country does not need a hasty, photo op, paper signing, and country selling ceremony in the name of regional friendship.

Tanzania already, is becoming a bare land; huge craters are cropping up everywhere, with the country's wealth taken away by foreigners due to bad governance, and shoddy deals –corruption- perpetrated by her economic criminals. That is enough; we can't afford to give our land, and those in need of tanzania land, should follow the regular immigration protocol and country's laws to acquire piece of it. In short, tanzania has more to lose than any other country within the union

let's not push our country into social chaos because of appeasement or political correctness. While we are hyped over the benefits, let's also ponder the unseen consequences; both in social, political, economic, and security spheres. Our neighbors are squabbling over a small island of migingo; and almost went to war because of this tiny 4000 square meter (size of a football pitch); an insanity, and clear hidden intent of our neighbors' insistence of tanzania land inclusion.

They should resolve such issues before we can let our land be shared freely with them. Kenya is basically a landlord cum-squatter's society, and many of her citizens have died as a result of land related wrangles. Opening tanzania's doors will be nothing less that re-location of the landless kenyans into tanzania. And who knows, maybe two decades later they may claim arusha as part of kenya, bringing about migingo act ii

we are better than anybody else's euphoria, a tradition from some of our neighbors who believe, and still claim supremacy over english language , is likely to bring major labor disputes as those who consider themselves dandy will demand most of the plum positions within the union. This complicated, irregular, perverse, and asymmetrical expected problem, needs more study for a balanced and equitable consensus between the member nations, which will eventually address, and avert such scenarios and disputes. If they can mistreat tanzanians, in their country, what will happen to tanzanians who crosses the boarder to look for jobs in masses?

One will wonder on how many tanzanians have their dream jobs in kenya – a country infested with tribalism and discrimination- compared to kenyans or ugandans working in tanzania; and the answer should be a contributing factor on determining whether time is ripe to commit into the treaty.

The region can have a centralized capital market (exchange), uniform tax system, and even access to the ports of entry under uniform codes, without compromising security and bring land into the equation. Tanzanian based corporations can raise capital freely in uganda stock market, and so could uganda's, as well kenya based companies do the same in tanzania. And all these can happen without inclusion of land into the discussion.

The most industrialized nations within the union will be creating such unbalanced trade in which domestic productivity, both in industrial, service, tourism and other sectors will be retarded and perhaps be forced out of operation by the most developed partner countries. If some of our neighbors can market kilimanjaro as their historic site. With a common market, even serengeti will part of their country's national wonder. Tanzania industrial growth is already suffering from chinese counterfeiting pandemic, and fully opening the small domestic market for foreign goods will spell a total collapse of the struggling manufacturing industry.

Tanzanian must protect her industries and her people from unfair trade practices, and this translates to the very core issue of the nation not being ready to join the east african common market. Complexity of the matter is profoundly intricate; it involves immediate and long term consequences whose echoes will be felt not only five years from now, but decades and even centuries to come. And if the need be, there should be a national referendum to determine whether the integration is needed in the first place, bearing in mind the security and social threats behind the treaty

thorough review, extreme caution, vigilance and due diligence must supersede pressure and political correctness in reviewing the underlying interest and benefits tanzania is likely to receive in return in the event of ratification of the treaty. And the greatest of all, we must not forget the dangers behind the land issue; which could spin out of control should the dar-es-salaam regime ignore the rising tide of opposition within her population, and proceed with the ratification of the treaty, more so with the land "clause" remaining intact. We must synchronize most of our issues or other concerns, and keep the land time bomb out of the equation for it to be a valid integration.

this is my perspective, what about yours, dear reader?

Mungu ibariki tanzania

john mashaka

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Can't help but love it, its author and you JK who posted it! God bless you all. The truth will prevail, wale watakao kupora kisicho chao, watauona moto wake. They want to rape our country, we won't sit down watching. I'll shout and shout! They have to listen to us, not us listening to them. Whose country is Tanzania, them or us. I don't promote hate against foreigners but won't let them dictate terms on my country either! I speak my mind! This will reinforce my database!
 
Vinara wa Federation wanagombea kisiwa cha Migingo..kesho itakua Mlima Kilimajaro ee mungu epusha hiyo kitu.
 
Kanyabwoya said:
Can't help but love it, its author and you JK who posted it! God bless you all. The truth will prevail, wale watakao kupora kisicho chao, watauona moto wake. They want to rape our country, we won't sit down watching. I'll shout and shout! They have to listen to us, not us listening to them. Whose country is Tanzania, them or us. I don't promote hate against foreigners but won't let them dictate terms on my country either! I speak my mind! This will reinforce my database!
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Lets talk after 20th November 2009 (when pen hits paper), thats when we can debate thos issue round for round, toe for toe, coz right now this is just rhetoric, empty talk, empty threats, empty arguments. If you think this community wount be fully functional by Jan next year, then you are seriously in denial.

This is an idea whose time has come and no one, not even an army, can stop it. air it out.
 
..kama alivyosema Mwalimu Nyerere, we want an East African Common Market, every member state should benefit frm this cooperation.

..the way things stands right now Kenya is trying to preserve the status quo by designating our country to status of being Kenya's Common Market.

..Watanzania inabidi tuwe very tough kwenye negotiations. We have to use the leverage that at any time we can withdraw our membership and join SADC.

..BILA TANZANIA HAKUNA EAC.


Jomo Kenyatta (then Prime Minister of Kenya and Chair of the Summit in his opening remarks stated,

"… This meeting has been called to discuss the Tanganyika Governments's decision to leave the East African Common Market and Currency. Here in Kenya we are alarmed at the prospect of implementing this decision. On balance, we have accepted that Kenya gains most from the market. We do not , however, admit that our gains are made at the expense of the other partners. Our examination shows that Kenya is rapidly losing its hare of these gains, oddly enough to Tanganyika. Besides, there are other advantages arising form East African Common Services and Raisman arrangements…

If it proves impossible to establish a Federation, we consider that the Common Market should be preserved for yet another year. We have just become independent, we have problems of unemployment….

I should like to command to you these thoughts. I hope prosperity will say that this meeting saved the Common Market; that the Common Market begot the Federation.

Dr. Julius Nyerere had this to say:

" ….. Chairman, you stated in your opening remarks, that Tanganyika had decided to leave the Common Market. I wish to correct that statement. Tanganyika has made proposals to modify certain structural relationships and the problems posed by this are easy and simple: they do not involve withdrawal.

We have, however, inherited advantages and disadvantages in the Common Market. No one can be blamed or congratulated for these disadvantages and advantages inherent in the Common Market.

All the people who have studied the Common Market say it is very useful thing for East Africa. East Africa has gained industries, investments and an infrastructure as a result of the Common Market. Indeed, East Africa would not have been as attractive to investors overseas without it. If you break the Common Market, there is no doubt that East Africans would suffer.

There is however a paradox here. What is good for the whole should be good for the part. This is not true in economics. It is possible for the Common Market to serve East Africa as a whole without serving the component parts. There must be deliberate actions to redress the imbalances which may arise……….

The aim behind the establishment of the Common Market was that it should serve Kenya. Let me make it clear, however, that I am not blaming Kenya: it is the rulers of East Africa at the time who planned deliberately that Kenya should be the center of economic activity. They, at first wanted a federation; they could not get it, so they established the Common Market to serve their interests.

Now, there are certain rules which determine accumulation of investment and one of them is indicated in a passage in the Bible which says, (He who has more will be given and he who has not even that which he has will be taken away form him). In so saying, Jesus was referring to facts of life. Kenya has developed more than Uganda and Tanganyika: the result is that we have only a legal common market, while in fact , it is Tanganyika which is the Common Market for all. Uganda and Kenya sell to Tanganyika more than Tanganyika sells to either of them and, therefore, Tanganyika is the Common Market of Kenya and Uganda. As such, it will be some time before we can have a true Common Market of the three East African countries…..

One-way of meeting Tanganyika's problem is to have some form of tariff protection. Another possible way might be to agree to limit the amount of goods which one country buys from another. Up to now, Tanganyika had not pressed this solution because it would be painful to Kenya who would have no market for her goods. Another method is that we could aim at reducing the trade imbalance gradually with a view to eliminating it in a given period…."
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Smatta said:
Lets talk after 20th November 2009 (when pen hits paper), thats when we can debate thos issue round for round, toe for toe, coz right now this is just rhetoric, empty talk, empty threats, empty arguments. If you think this community wount be fully functional by Jan next year, then you are seriously in denial.

This is an idea whose time has come and no one, not even an army, can stop it. air it out.
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reality is hard for them to accept i understand that because i have my reservations and suspisions about the EAC but i finally came around to realising the reality of the world we are living in. it is the trong hatred from the tanzanians that shows how shallow and narrow minded they are.

the tanzanians should understand wether they like it or not they will be dragged into the community by their govt. if kenyans were as strongly and passionately opposed to the EAC as tanzanians are, i bet you that there would be protestors in huge numbers on nairobi streets but the tanzanians lack the balls/guts to stand up to their govt and protest the EAC. the tanzanian government knows that the citizens wont put any pressure on the country leaders so they will do what they want and the citizens will just obey like sheep. this is the reality in tanzania and that is why tanzanians will joint the EAC wether the tanzanians like it or not because the tanzanian leaders want TZ to join the EAC.

btw smatta, how is the real estate market in dar?
 
WAKENYA, THE CENTRE OF YOUR DISCUSSION SHOULD BE YOUR FUTURE INSTEAD OF THINKING A SHORT CUT WAY OF RESOLVING YOUR ENTANGLES.

DONT THINK THAT THE SIGNATURES LEADERS WILL MAKE YOU MOVE TO OUR LAND MAJESTICALLY, HIYO HAPANA.

KAENI KWENU ILI MTATUE MATATIZO YENU. KAMA VILE MZUNGU KUMPIGA RISASI MKENYA NA KUSEMA ALIFIKIRI NI NGURUWE PORI, HALAFU ANAACHIWA HURU TOKA GEREZANI.


How land deals of the early 1960s came to haunt the country during poll chaos

The Nation
By John Kamau

When chaos erupted in the Rift Valley shortly after the controversial 2007 Presidential vote tally, the land question became the bone of contention.

But why did settlement schemes – and private land buying deals - turn out to be the nation’s nightmare in the Rift Valley Province, more than 45 years later.

Original correspondence traces the settlement confusion to the colonial government plan to create a set of elite African farmers who were to replace the white farmers in the Rift Valley in what was originally known as Yeomen Settlement Scheme.

When this failed, the idea of peasant settlements was floated, but this also failed at both at the social and political levels.

Under pressure from white farmers who feared that they might be abandoned in Kenya after independence, the British government managed to push the independence negotiators — led by conservative teacher-turned-politician James Gichuru — to allow for a smooth transfer of farms lest they wrecked the economy, which was anchored on colonial agriculture.

Worried that they might inherit a bankrupt nation, the negotiators agreed to a scheme mooted in Lancaster House where Britain would guarantee a World Bank loan to Kenya government which would buy all the land owned by white settlers to settle Africans. The Kenyan tax-payers were to pay for that loan.

The story begins shortly before independence when the British made it clear at the independence negotiations that the new Kenya government would have to buy the land from the white settlers.

By then some of the white farmers started mortgaging their farms with banks complicating an already complex situation and leaving the politicians – led by James Gichuru – in a fix.

Mr Gichuru and his team knew that Kenya was an agricultural economy and if the land question was not solved they would inherit a bankrupt nation.

By then Mr Kenyatta, the man who was to get the mantle from Mr Gichuru, was still in restriction. Mr Gichuru was asked to inform his colleagues that there would be no free land come independence, an issue that divided the Kanu party.

But behind the scenes, the World Bank in 1960 had opened discussions with Kenya’s interim chairman of the settlement board, Mr J.F Lipscombe, on how to start settling the first group of Yeomen Farmers – as they were then known – into the white highlands to become the first set of African farmers who would protect the economy from ruin. Yeomen Scheme was more than that. It was a clever plot to pass all the big land into a few hands.

Aware that radicals might jeopardize the efforts, the World Bank and the colonial government on November 29, 1961 entered into a pact which meant that all officials who would join the Lands and Settlement docket, and especially positions that touched on the loan, would have to be approved by them.

The Yeomen programme was the first experiment to be carried out in the Rift Valley and envisaged buying some 240,000 acres of high potential land which was to be broken into 100 acre parcels. But while money was borrowed from the World Bank, the Yeomen Scheme flopped after it became hard to get African farmers who could manage such projects.

The original idea had emanated from Governor Malcolm MacDonald whose pet idea was to open the White Highlands to a select group of Kenyans who would farm alongside the whites. Documents show Mr Lipscombe had told the officials that the only way to get such a huge number of farmers would be to hunt for them in the non-scheduled African land units.

The first experiment was carried out on Luckhurst Farm, which was nicknamed Bahati, Kiswahili for good luck, and was divided into 8 farms the largest portion being 186 acres and the smallest 49.7 acres. The original idea was that the farmers would sell their maize to Kenya Farmers Association but at the end of the harvest only one farmer delivered his crop.

A report by J.H. Lategan and sent to the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Lands and Settlement, Mr N.S.Carey Jones, now sheds light into what went wrong in the initial stages of the Yeomen experiment which was to be rolled out countrywide.

The Lategan Report blames white farmers’ selfishness and drunkenness and elitist behaviour of the new African farmers.

He wrote: “The European farmers, for purely selfish reasons, were anxious for this scheme to succeed when it was initiated, their idea being that if this scheme succeeds they would be in a favourable position to get rid of their own farms at good prices to the settlement board.”

The report continued: “Yeomen farmers consider themselves to be gentlemen who are above the menial tasks of farming and they spend most of their time in the bars of Nakuru, the work being left to the women and labourers.”

The Yeomen Scheme was highly subsidized by the colonial government as a direct reward to those who had supported the colonial structure. While all the labourers had been supplied and paid for by the government, Mr Lategan, the investigator, found only one farmer at the Bahati farm. Besides drunkenness of the farmers, they also did not have extension officers and relied on neighbouring European farmers for advice.

“Some of them still appear to try peasant farming, which means that they plant crops, such as beans in between the rows of maize,” said the report. The failure of the Yeomen scheme meant that the government was forced to revise its policy.

It was agreed with both the British government and World Bank that land would be transferred through normal sales in open market to new owners or cooperative societies.

The norm

It was this last effort that became the norm shortly after Independence and which the government of Jomo Kenyatta flagged on enthusiastically.

The Yeomen Scheme only lasted until 1961, when it was re-named Assisted Farmers scheme. While the government, with funding from World Bank and British government, started buying for these Assisted Farmers, what slowly emerged was a new crop of big land owners—amidst general landlessness and poverty.

Source link: http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/684058/-/uon47f/-/index.html

How independence era leaders laid their hands on lands of quitting whites
​

By John Kamau
The Nation

Failure by the British government and World Bank to provide enough money to buy all the land in the Scheduled Areas, also known as White Highlands, kick-started a private treaty land buying spree that tilted the balance in favour of the political elite, senior civil servants and business people.

Land Records and correspondence indicate that by December 1966, Mr Kenyatta bought more than 3895 acres in Nairobi and Ruiru at a total cost of Sh472,740.

The land was registered in either Mr Kenyatta’s or his wife Mama Ngina’s names, or in his two eldest sons Peter Magana, and Peter Muigai.

Hitherto unseen documents and records show that the Government also gave Mr Kenyatta some 178 acres in Nairobi and he got a further 509 acres leading the pack of big land ownership in the country.

Land for free had been ruled out by the British government during the negotiations for independence and a constitutional clause that guaranteed whites their “right to property” and which brought to the fore the “sanctity of title deed”.

That paved the way for the independence politicians, led by the Kenyatta family, to strike a fortune by “buying” land from fleeing white owners in Scheduled Areas.

From available records, it appears that most of the political leaders, businessmen and land buying companies capitalised on the new government’s inability to buy all the land on offer.

Actually, failure by British government to commit more money to buy land in the White Highlands is today regarded as the trigger to this free-for-all land-buying spree which left the penniless scrapping for tiny pieces of shambas. It also triggered land exchanges hitherto unseen in the history of this country.

Land changed hands in quick succession as thousands of desperate white farmers with no other recourse than to sell their land opted to leave. Politicians with power and money as well as businessmen with liquid cash managed to acquire thousands of acres creating a new African elite.

It is these transactions that have for years formed national discourse on whether the land, especially in the Rift Valley and other Scheduled Areas was rightly acquired or was a part of land grabbing. But details in government books show that indeed some of the land was bought from individuals.

Still landless

But what is questionable is why the government allowed individuals to own huge tracts of land when millions were still landless.

For instance, hardly a year into Kenyatta’s regime, Mama Ngina bought 1,006 acres in Dandora from Messrs Hendrik Rensburg for Sh200,000. One government documents puts the figure at Sh2,000,000—an astronomical sum at the time. Whichever figure was right this farm lies within the modern day Dandora Estate in Nairobi and beyond.

In the same area, Peter Muigai Kenyatta bought for Sh51,000 some 700 acres and a further 1266 acres North East of Nairobi for Sh87,000.

The only farm registered in Jomo Kenyatta’s name in 1964 was a 5 acre farm he bought from a Mr J.R. Wood for Sh400! His two sons, Muigai and Magana also bought 165 acres in Ruiru for Sh9,900 – meaning they bought an acre for Sh60.

Mr Kenyatta also paid Sh45,000 to acquire 100 acres in Dandora as a “Trustee for minor son Uhuru.”

Also former President Daniel arap Moi had by 1964 bought a 2,344 acres in Kampi-ya-Moto for Sh60,000. That appears to be a modest acquisition when compared to the acquisition patterns of 1964 when large chunks of land were on offer.

Mr Kenyatta’s right hand man, Minister of State Mbiyu Koinange, also bought 645 acres in Limuru for Sh497,000 while another Cabinet minister Ngala Mwendwa went for a 932 acre coffee farm in Kahawa worth Sh240,000.

First Vice-President Jaramogi Oginga Odinga appears not to have bought land using his name but did so under the Luo Thrift and Trading Company. In 1964 he bought 394 acres from the estate of B.H. Patel in Miwani and a further 401 acres in 1965 from C. Patel for Sh255,000.

But some of the largest land transactions involved organised land buying companies which freely bought land on offer. One of those farms is the Kiambaa Farm in Eldoret where arsonists torched a church during the post-election violence.

Records now indicate that Kiambaa Farmers Co-operative bought the 500 acre farm from Giuseppe Morat in 1967 for Sh80,000. Another farm, that has always been synonymous with tribal clashes is the Kamwaura Farm in Molo which was bought in 1967 for Sh240,000. The 1,636 acre farm was the first to witness clashes in 1990 and was bought from Lionel Caldwell who was leaving the country.

Other big companies that bought land in the area include Kipsitet Farmers Co-operative which bought 2,302 acres in Kericho for Sh300,000 from Margaritis Ltd.

One of the largest sales by a co-operative society was in 1965 when Ngati Farmers Co-operative bought 16,000 acres for Sh1.6 million from Maiella Ltd in Naivasha. By 1969, it remained one of the largest farms ever bought by a society and besides Mama Ngina nobody else had paid such large sums for land.

Another big landowner in Nairobi who emerged quite early is politician Gerishon Kirima who acquired more than 1000 acres in different parts of Nairobi becoming one of the single largest city land barons.

In Western Kenya former minister Burudi Nabwera and Benna Lutta were some of the largest buyers of land. Mr Nabwera, then a diplomat in Washington bought 1,221 acre in Trans Nzoia for Sh240,000 from Ellen Jervis while Mr Benna Lutta, later a judge, bought 1,685 acres in Kwanza.

Cabinet minister, Paul Ngei is recorded to have bought a 1,263 acre farm in Machakos from Kakuzi Fibreland Ltd. Another minister Dr Julius Gikonyo Kiano bought 176 acres in Kabete – which he later sold to University of Nairobi.

Other MPs who bought big farms include Mr Willy Kamuren (1,433 acres in Molo), Mr JM Kariuki (880 acres in Ol Kalou), Mr Fred Kubai (684 acres in Njoro), Mr Harry Onamu (349 acres in Turi), and Mr Yego arap Kibomet (1,496 in Moiben).

As that happened Britain kept a close check on the private land transaction and the High Commission in Nairobi would occasionally demand information.

From records it appears that Kenya and British governments had established the Caren Working Party led by a professional valuer, Mr C.J. Caren, which established rules on how to buy land.

While the Ministry of Lands and Settlement, through the Settlement Fund Trustee, was scouting for farms to buy it started to face competition from white settlers who were also buying land from each other to stabilise prices and for speculative purposes.

This trend had been realised in 1966 by Lands and Settlement minister Jackson Angaine, who after getting a copy of the sales report and the names of buyers remarked to his PS: “I am rather surprised to see such a large list of the farms changing hands from one to another. May we discuss”.

Whatever they discussed the transactions continued creating a new class of propertied families.

In the heat of the moment, land buying became political and in the craze only those who had the right information prospered.

Source link: http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/684064/-/uon487/-/index.html
 
They will come in droves and they will perish in droves as long as more than 80 percent of Tanzanians don't welcome them. Kwani viongozi kitu gani, hata wakitia sahihi, wapo kwa maslahi yao na si kwa maslahi wa wananchi. Mara ngapi hao hao wametusaliti, mikataba mibovu imetokana na nani, si hao hao?

Tanzania si kichwa cha mwendawazimu, na hilo watalidhihirisha tu, kwa sababu nia tunayo, sababu tunayo na uwezo tunao wa kumfukuza adui mpaka nje ya mipaka yetu. Mtu ameuza nyumba yake, leo anakuja kulazimisha kuishi kwako, hiyo ni halali! Mtu akikuingilai kwa hila na ulaghai, huyo ni mvamizi, na dawa ya mvamizi inajulikana. There is always a reward for treachery, they will have endure it.

Viongozi ni wapita njia, kwanza wengine wana "ngoma", so it's a temporary problem. Kuna mchangiaji nilisikia anasema tuwapeleke wakikuyu, wakalenjin na wajaluoa tuwapeleke Mtwara ili wasahau tofauti zao, je wamakonde waende wapi? Nasema hiyo si kazi ya watanzani kwa sasa hivi, kwa hali ya sasa mtanzania ajishughulishe na matatizo yake, maana ni mengi mno, tuliyofanya yanatosha, kila zama na kitabu chake.

Kwako kunawaka, unakwenda kuzima kwa mwenzako, tukatae hiyo! Sawa sawa!!!? Machiavelli alisema, tyrants unawaweka pamoja, wakimalizana, na tatizo limekwisha, au wataheshimiana eventually as the best case scenario.

Mungu ubariki Tanzania.
 
Na anayesema kusaini itifaki nov 20, atambue kuwa suala la ardhi, vitambulisho walivyotaka hayamo, anafurahia nini? wamelamba patupu! free movement of labor is subject to the issuance of work permits, discretionary by a competent authority, now what is that excitement about? Ni sawa na mtu kuokota kipande cha chupa anakwenda anashangilia bara bara nzima eti amepata almasi!
 
Kanyabwoya said:
Na anayesema kusaini itifaki nov 20, atambue kuwa suala la ardhi, vitambulisho walivyotaka hayamo, anafurahia nini? wamelamba patupu! free movement of labor is subject to the issuance of work permits, discretionary by a competent authority, now what is that excitement about? Ni sawa na mtu kuokota kipande cha chupa anakwenda anashangilia bara bara nzima eti amepata almasi!
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Have you read the common market protocol or you are just shooting blindly hoping to get something..

(a)the free movement of goods;
(b)the free movement of persons;
(c)the free movement of labour;
(d)the free movement of services; and
(e)the free movement of capital.

Nov 20th, then we can argue, go get your facts right boy, and stop inciting a lethargic populace into doing something they only see in horror movies.
 
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