If God knows the future (omniscient), can you change your destiny?

housegirl said:

So God defies logic?

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God cannot do the logically impossible. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with omnipotence.

Here's how the argument runs: God is rational, meaning He cannot will the irrational. (Notice that this isn't about the power but the nature of God.)

True, and not merely apparent, logical impossibility is irrational.

Therefor God, because He is rational, cannot will the logically impossible. Since God's exercise of power is always an expression of His will, He cannot defy logic. In order for Him to do so He would have to stop being Himself.

It is not the extent of God's power, which is infinite, but its exercise that is "limited" by His nature. There are things that God cannot do because of who He is. Logically impossible things are among them.

Ishmael said:

Yes, Eiyer hajakosea alipo sema kuwa Mungu hakuumba Kifo. Yupo sahih na thabit katika jibu lake.

Je, Mungu aliumba Shetani? Ndio maana nilisema in one of my prior post kuwa: God did not create Adam and Eve so that one day they can die, inter-alia, God did not create Lucifer so that he can be Satan.

There is no verse in the infallible word that will support your argument of God creating death, in contrast, in the Quran Allah is creating death. May be you meant Allah and not Elohim.

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its the concept/existence of death that you seem to not understand

Kiranga said:

Kwa.sababu tunahambua ukweli na hadithi zisizo na ukweli.

Kwa sababu wewe ndiye uliyejibuzana nami hapa kama mtetezi wa uwepo wa mungu.

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Eiyer said:

Ametoweka ghafla sijui kaenda wapi .....!!

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housegirl said:

tushakubaliana na Mkuu wa chuo kwamba these type of statements are provoking statements and unnecessary

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Nope, it is not provoking. It is like that. The kid is incommunicado after discovering that, proving her/his fallacy is impossible.

WE NEED THOSE EXHIBITS FROM HIM.

housegirl said:

pale ambapo alimwambia Adam atakufa hakika kama angekula tunda

that and the concept itself. Death. Kama Mungu angeumba ulimwengu ambamo hamna kitu kama hichi, kisingekuwepo.

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Inachanganya mambo

Aliyetengeneza gari katengeneza na ajali?
Tofautisha kuumba ulimwengu ambao kifo kinawezekana na kuumba kifo

Hayo ni mambo mawili tofauti kabisa!

kaka km said:

God cannot do the logically impossible. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with omnipotence.

Here's how the argument runs: God is rational, meaning He cannot will the irrational. (Notice that this isn't about the power but the nature of God.)

True, and not merely apparent, logical impossibility is irrational.

Therefor God, because He is rational, cannot will the logically impossible. Since God's exercise of power is always an expression of His will, He cannot defy logic. In order for Him to do so He would have to stop being Himself.

It is not the extent of God's power, which is infinite, but its exercise that is "limited" by His nature. There are things that God cannot do because of who He is. Logically impossible things are among them.

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naomba ule LIKE kubwa sana......
although kuna part sijaelewa like " It is not the extent of God's power, which is infinite, but its exercise that is "limited" by His nature" I feel like ni umekosea kuandika. ulitaka kusema nini?

is it possible for man to understand a God who defies logic?

housegirl said:

tushakubaliana na Mkuu wa chuo kwamba these type of statements are provoking statements and unnecessary

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Kivipi?

Demarco said:

Inaona ndicho unachoweza kusema Hahaaaaaa!
Sasa kama hutaki nifanyeje kama , unapindisha maneno nifanyeje.
Uzuri sikunongoneza nimeandika na maandishi bado yapo for future reference. Kama hujaelewa au mbishi ama uko sahihi hiyo jukumu la watakao kuwa wanapitia thread.

Katika bandiko The First Law of Thermodynamics imetumika ku proof kuwepo kwa the creator, Second Law of Thermodynamics imetumika ku proof kuwa binadamu si matokeo ya evolution is just a myth.

Nime cite credible source ya habari unabeza copy and paste, unatakaje Intellectual Property lazima u acknowledge .Pili for more review nimeweka website.Tatu ni rahisi kutumia majibu mazuri yanayokubalika na wanazuoni kama nilivyofanya ..bado unabeza unasema na copy na ku paste nisivyojua.
Wewe unaye cite Wikipedia which anyone can edit unajiona mjanja ...kazi kweli kweli.

Kwa kifupi bado sijuhi unapindisha makusudi au ndo uelewa wako .


Jamani tubadilike forum ihusishe kujifunza vitu vipya not about ego au nani kashinda .

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Second Law of Thermodynamics says that everything move drom order to disorder.

Vitu vyote vinakongoroka.

Hii ni law muhumunsanankwako, umeitumia.kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu.

Ina maana mungu wako.naye atakongoroka?

Ishmael said:

Hapo ndipo wengi wanashindwa elewa kuwa Mungu ametupa free will. Unachagua nini unataka na kama ni jambo baya, basi uwe teyari kukubali matokea ya uchaguzi wako. Wao wanachagua ubaya halafu mambo yanapotekea, wanaanza kumlilia Mungu, Oooh Mbona Mungu huji kuniokoa, Mbona Mungu unaniacha naumia, LAKINI, wakati wanafanya uchaguzi wa hayo mabaya, HAWAKUMUULIZA MUNGU, je , ni vema kufanya haya mabaya na wasikie ushauri wake ni upi.

Nashukuru Mkuu kwa ujumbe wako ambao, kama atausoma, basu utamfungua macho, lakini kwa kuwa ameamua kuwa kipofu, basi hapo tunamwachia Mungu mwenye Rehema afanye kazi yake. Hata Pharaoh was just like them, lakini siku moja, the Mighty Pharaoh alipiga magoti na kusema Hakika Kuna Mungu katika Israel.

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AMEN to that, brother.

Kiranga said:

Second Law of Thermodynamics says that everything move drom order to disorder.

Vitu vyote vinakongoroka.

Hii ni law muhumunsanankwako, umeitumia.kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu.

Ina maana mungu wako.naye atakongoroka?

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By Kiranga

Kwa.sababu tunahambua ukweli na hadithi zisizo na ukweli.

Kwa sababu wewe ndiye uliyejibuzana nami hapa kama mtetezi wa uwepo wa mungu.

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HAKUNA KUKIMBIA POST YAKO HAPA.

TULETEE USHAIDI TUUONE, WENZAKO huwa hawakimbii wanapo toa post, wanaleta na Ushaidi. HIYO NDIO MAANA HALIS YA DEBATE.

SASA TULETEE USHAIDI TUOONE. Au wewe ndio wale wa LONGALONGA NA BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Hakuna kukimbia Mtu hapa.

housegirl said:

Ishmael we have already seen that you have nothing to tell me about your Incomprehensible God.

Its up to the Christians who accept that logic is part of God, to explain to me his nature.

pls Dont bother

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How can you say God is incomprehensible? Don't you know that God doesn't need logic since He can say LET there be and it was....!!!

Nilikupa ule mfano wa Mikate 5 na Samaki 2, kwanini hukuweka jibu na uone kivipi mikate 5 na Samaki 2 walishe watu elfu 5.

LAKINI MABAKI NI Vikapu 12. Show me the logic gere.

Eiyer said:

Inachanganya mambo

Aliyetengeneza gari katengeneza na ajali?
Tofautisha kuumba ulimwengu ambao kifo kinawezekana na kuumba kifo

Hayo ni mambo mawili tofauti kabisa!

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Dah! hiyo mantiki nimeipenda ya kwamba aliyetengeneza gari katengeneza na ajali?

Mkuu wa chuo said:

Dah! hiyo mantiki nimeipenda ya kwamba aliyetengeneza gari katengeneza na ajali?

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Mungu ni mwema na watakuja kuelewa tu .....!!

Eiyer said:

Inachanganya mambo

Aliyetengeneza gari katengeneza na ajali?
Tofautisha kuumba ulimwengu ambao kifo kinawezekana na kuumba kifo

Hayo ni mambo mawili tofauti kabisa!

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hapa ndo tunapoachana.

kuna sehemu hatuelewani.

sijui nikupe mfano gani. the fact that vitu vizito (higher density) huzama na vyepesi huelea juu ni kwasababu Mungu katengeneza hivyo. angeweza kutengeneza ulimwengu ambamo vizito ndo huelea juu!!!!!

LOL. nimekumbuka movie ya the invention of lying. can u imagine dunia ambamo watu hawajui kudanganya?? mtu aliyekuja kugundua, wakati anamwambia mwenzake, akaulizwa "how can u say something that is not?

dada mmoja alipata a date. kaja kuchukuliwa nyumbani. jamaa akawa anamsubiri. alivyotoka kasema "sorry for keeping u waiting, i was masterbating". HAHA sorry if this analogy haikufai mchungaji.

MY POINT: God could have created a world ambamo there is nothing as death!! yani hata ufanyaje. the same day kamwambia Adam angekufa means he had created the possibility. he created the law "wakila tu, death comes".

kwakweli sidhani kama nimeeleweka. nimejaza paragraph tu

Ishmael said:

How can you say God is incomprehensible? Don't you know that God doesn't need logic since He can say LET there be and it was....!!!

Nilikupa ule mfano wa Mikate 5 na Samaki 2, kwanini hukuweka jibu na uone kivipi mikate 5 na Samaki 2 walishe watu elfu 5.

LAKINI MABAKI NI Vikapu 12. Show me the logic gere.

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yes i know about the miracles but usiende mbali. The fact that God defies logic means he is incomprehensible. you as a human being cannot begin to imagine him much less describe him.
from there what you think you know about God goes however you want and however anyone wants. do u understand?
nilikujibu asubuhi kwa kumquote Kiranga. nilikumention. if you have.any counter arguments pls quote that post of mine

Kiranga said:

Second Law of Thermodynamics says that everything move drom order to disorder.

Vitu vyote vinakongoroka.

Hii ni law muhumunsanankwako, umeitumia.kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu.

Ina maana mungu wako.naye atakongoroka?

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Wasomaji watashangaa sana kama nilivyosema awali .
The Second Law of Thermodynamics nimetumia kupinga evolution .
The First Law of Thermodynamics nimetumia ku proof kuwepo kwa Creator .

Hahaaaa kweli hapa kuna kazi unaweza kusoma kweli ? Minilidhani uko reasonable na nirahisi kujadili na wewe.

housegirl said:

hapa ndo tunapoachana.

kuna sehemu hatuelewani.

sijui nikupe mfano gani. the fact that vitu vizito (higher density) huzama na vyepesi huelea juu ni kwasababu Mungu katengeneza hivyo. angeweza kutengeneza ulimwengu ambamo vizito ndo huelea juu!!!!!

LOL. nimekumbuka movie ya the invention of lying. can u imagine dunia ambamo watu hawajui kudanganya?? mtu aliyekuja kugundua, wakati anamwambia mwenzake, akaulizwa "how can u say something that is not?

dada mmoja alipata a date. kaja kuchukuliwa nyumbani. jamaa akawa anamsubiri. alivyotoka kasema "sorry for keeping u waiting, i was masterbating". HAHA sorry if this analogy haikufai mchungaji.

MY POINT: God could have created a world ambamo there is nothing as death!! yani hata ufanyaje. the same day kamwambia Adam angekufa means he had created the possibility. he created the law "wakila tu, death comes".

kwakweli sidhani kama nimeeleweka. nimejaza paragraph tu

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Unazunguka tu na kurudi kule kule na ndio maana nilikuambia kuwa natilia mashaka uwezo wako wa kuelewa

Tatizo lako wewe ni kuumbwa ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana
Nilikuuliza sababu za wewe kutaka ulimwengu au kuhoji ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani,hukujibu

Hapa unarudia kule kule ambako hukujibu kwa kuhoji jambo lile lile na mfano wako wa vitu vizito unathibitisha hilo
Halafu unarudia tena kuhoji sababu ya kutokuumbwa ulimwengu ambao kifo hakiwezekani bila kusema sababu ya wewe kuhoji hivyo ni ipi

Tatizo lako lingine ni wewe ktokujua sababu ya mabaya kuwepo duniani na aliyefanya yakawepo

Fikiria kuwa umewekewa chupa mbili za maji
1;Ina sumu na umeambiwa hivyo
2;Haina sumu na umeambiwa hivyo

Ukaambiwa kuwa ukinywa yale maji yenye sumu utakufa,halafu akaja mwendawazimu mmoja akakuambia kuwa huwezi kufa wakati huo huo aliyekuambia kuwa utakufa ni yule aliyesababisha wewe uwepo,halafu ukaamua kumsikiliza huyo mwendawazimu na ukanywa,unadhani kosa hapo ni la nani?

Yule amekuwa muungwana na amekupa uwezo wa kuchagua kwakuwa hataki wewe uwe kama robot,lakini akakuambia kuwa utakachokifanya kina madhara kwako,ukaamua kutokumsikiliza na ukaamua kumsikiliza ambae hata hujui katokea wapi,bado kweli utaendelea kumlaumu aliyekupa taarifa ya madhara ya sumu?

Hebu elewa basi kuwa,hapa tatizo ni Adam kutumia uhuru wake vibaya na sio kitu kingine
Halafu pia Mungu hakuumba kifo!

Demarco said:

Wasomaji watashangaa sana kama nilivyosema awali .
The Second Law of Thermodynamics nimetumia kupinga evolution .
The First Law of Thermodynamics nimetumia ku proof kuwepo kwa Creator .

Hahaaaa kweli hapa kuna kazi unaweza kusoma kweli ? Minilidhani uko reasonable na nirahisi kujadili na wewe.

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Ukipinga evolution hujaonyesha mungu yupo.

First Law of Thermodynamics ni ya Physics, ina limitations, inafuata logic.

Itawezaje ku prove uwepo wa mungu ambaye ni.beyond the physical, hana limitations, na hafuati logic?

Ukiweza kutumia First Law of Thermodynamics kunprove uwepo wa.mungu usha prove kwamba huyo mungu si mungu huyu omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent and omnipresent.

Kwa sababu atakuwa contained within the laws of physics.

Sasa mungu gani asiye na.mwanzo wala mwisho.anaweza.kuwa contained withing the limited laws of physics?

Kiranga said:

Ukipinga evolution hujaonyesha mungu yupo.

First Law of Thermodynamics ni ya Physics, ina limitations, inafuata logic.

Itawezaje ku prove uwepo wa mungu ambaye ni.beyond the physical, hana limitations, na hafuati logic?

Ukiweza kutumia First Law of Thermodynamics kunprove uwepo wa.mungu usha prove kwamba huyo mungu si mungu huyu omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent and omnipresent.

Kwa sababu atakuwa contained within the laws of physics.

Sasa mungu gani asiye na.mwanzo wala mwisho.anaweza.kuwa contained withing the limited laws of physics?

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By Kiranga

Kwa.sababu tunahambua ukweli na hadithi zisizo na ukweli.

Kwa sababu wewe ndiye uliyejibuzana nami hapa kama mtetezi wa uwepo wa mungu.

Click to expand...

HAKUNA KUKIMBIA POST YAKO HAPA.

TULETEE USHAIDI TUUONE, WENZAKO huwa hawakimbii wanapo toa post, wanaleta na Ushaidi. HIYO NDIO MAANA HALIS YA DEBATE.

SASA TULETEE USHAIDI TUOONE. Au wewe ndio wale wa LONGALONGA NA BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Hakuna kukimbia Mtu hapa.

Eiyer said:

Unazunguka tu na kurudi kule kule na ndio maana nilikuambia kuwa natilia mashaka uwezo wako wa kuelewa

Tatizo lako wewe ni kuumbwa ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana
Nilikuuliza sababu za wewe kutaka ulimwengu au kuhoji ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani,hukujibu

Hapa unarudia kule kule ambako hukujibu kwa kuhoji jambo lile lile na mfano wako wa vitu vizito unathibitisha hilo
Halafu unarudia tena kuhoji sababu ya kutokuumbwa ulimwengu ambao kifo hakiwezekani bila kusema sababu ya wewe kuhoji hivyo ni ipi

Tatizo lako lingine ni wewe ktokujua sababu ya mabaya kuwepo duniani na aliyefanya yakawepo

Fikiria kuwa umewekewa chupa mbili za maji
1;Ina sumu na umeambiwa hivyo
2;Haina sumu na umeambiwa hivyo

Ukaambiwa kuwa ukinywa yale maji yenye sumu utakufa,halafu akaja mwendawazimu mmoja akakuambia kuwa huwezi kufa wakati huo huo aliyekuambia kuwa utakufa ni yule aliyesababisha wewe uwepo,halafu ukaamua kumsikiliza huyo mwendawazimu na ukanywa,unadhani kosa hapo ni la nani?

Yule amekuwa muungwana na amekupa uwezo wa kuchagua kwakuwa hataki wewe uwe kama robot,lakini akakuambia kuwa utakachokifanya kina madhara kwako,ukaamua kutokumsikiliza na ukaamua kumsikiliza ambae hata hujui katokea wapi,bado kweli utaendelea kumlaumu aliyekupa taarifa ya madhara ya sumu?

Hebu elewa basi kuwa,hapa tatizo ni Adam kutumia uhuru wake vibaya na sio kitu kingine
Halafu pia Mungu hakuumba kifo!

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wala usitilie shaka uwezo wangu. ni mara ya pili hii unaniambia hivyo. you dont see that u might be the one witg the problem?

mfano uliotoa unaonyesha kabisa kuwa HUELEWI NACHOSEMA. na sidhani kama tutaelewana leo. labda siku nyingine

wewe unasema sijui kwanini duniani kuna uovu as a conclusion kwa kutoelewa logic yangu.

swali lako la kwanini nataka kujua, NIMEKUJIBU. nimesema I wanted to know God's nature/attributes

Kiranga said:

Ukipinga evolution hujaonyesha mungu yupo.

First Law of Thermodynamics ni ya Physics, ina limitations, inafuata logic.

Itawezaje ku prove uwepo wa mungu ambaye ni.beyond the physical, hana limitations, na hafuati logic?

Ukiweza kutumia First Law of Thermodynamics kunprove uwepo wa.mungu usha prove kwamba huyo mungu si mungu huyu omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent and omnipresent.

Kwa sababu atakuwa contained within the laws of physics.

Sasa mungu gani asiye na.mwanzo wala mwisho.anaweza.kuwa contained withing the limited laws of physics?

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this is what im trying to say....sijui nina mwandiko mbaya!!