If our President has more than one wife: The question of human rights

[Interested Observer]

First of all, right off the bat, are you sure he is practising polygamy? Or you are just going by hearsay?

Second, I don't see where politics fits in in here unless one wants to inject it. Even presidents do have personal lives and his personal life, in my opinion, has got nothing to do with politics.

By accepting to be my president, he/she accepts his public/and private life to be in spotlight! Nobody should practice presidency on the expense of our lives! We have many priorities, Njaa, unemployment, AIDS, na vingi vingi mno; we are behind China for 200 years, we are behind USA 400 years! We have no hospitals we have nothing; and we are calling our country A Country? Let our president be a president of a country. It is for our ciountry and our children!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

By accepting to be my president, he/she accepts his public/and private life to be in spotlight! Nobody should practice presidency on the expense of our lives! We have many priorities, Njaa, unemployment, AIDS, na vingi vingi mno; we are behind China for 200 years, we are behind USA 400 years! We have no hospitals we have nothing; and we are calling our country A Country? Let our president be a president of a country. It is for our ciountry and our children!

.....and therefore give up every right to have a private life?

 

[Future-Tanzania]

Dada Future-Tanzania...Unaona unachanganya mambo...kupiga mwanamke au ukirtimba kupo hata kwa mume1...Kama unataka tujadili Ndoa na Misukosuko its OK, we can..lkn unapokuja kuchanganya Ukewenza hapo tatizo...

Naona ipo Haja ya ku-define Polygamy na Polyginy, inayokubalika ni Polygyny...(Ukewenza.).lkn Polygamy inaweza kumaanisha vyote..ukewenza au Umewenza....pia tusiwaingize wazinifu wenza!!! Hivi ni Vitu tofauti kabisa...

Hatuwezi escape Hili la DINI hata siku1...in one way or another DINI lazima tuziguse...

Listen Chuma, this topic doesn’t involve any religion, what we are discussing is how Mr President deceives Public by pretending he is not polygamist. Our money (tax) is the one who take care of his family hence we have all the right to know who he really is.

He should have known long time ago, that once you are in limelight then your life isn’t private anymore, we elect him to represent us in the country and abroad he shouldn’t lie to us like he has one wife. And he seems to be ashamed of being a polygamist; the only thing I can really say is what a looser!

We don’t care what agreement they have in his family about him with wives and vimada, but what we care is we want to know who are beneficiary of public money in the state house.

By the way, coming back to the topic of women rights, kama utaki wanawake wapewe their human rights, that include empowering them, and you/someone else said, women are more in numbers than men, and they live longer if that is the case, sasa Tanzania utaacha kuempower who are majority and who are expected to live 10-20 yrs longer? Why not change the law to reflect the reality of life, empower both of them, make them work hard for themselves, and be independent!

 

[Future-Tanzania]

mmmhhh ! huyu alieanzisha mada ni kweli anajali haki za wanawake au ana lake rohoni tu?. najua atakuwa kaathirika na vile vijiutamaduni vya hawa wazungu wanaojifanya kama ni miungu watu , haki ya mwanamke utaijua wewe bwana? unamjuaje ndani ya mwili wake ana hisia gani au fikra zake zikoje?. aaakh tutapata wazimu kwa kuona kwamba kila analosema mzungu yupo sawa na tukafikia sehemu tukaona lile analofanya mzungu ndio la kuiga hata kama halina maslahi wala heshima. ndio maana leo wanawake wetu wanatembea uchi, wanafanya umalaya, wanatumiliwa kinyume na maumbile yao lakini just bcoz kwamba mzungu kafanya basi yote hayo tunayaona ni sawa. Ufukara unatufanya tuige kila kitu na naamini iko siku ndoa za mashoga hapa tanzania zitakuwa ni fashion kwa vile wazungu wanafanya. afanaalek!

You are really underage, u better go and pray kidali.. here we are not talking about wazungu and their culture. Hello read other post u will understand, we are TALKING ABOUT TANZANIAN CULTURE, WHAT WE SHOULD KEEP PASSING TO THE NEXT GENERATION AND WHAT WE SHOULDNT. U CANT BLAME WAZUNGU FOR YOUR OWN CULTURE. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT TANZANIAN LAW STAND ON A WOMAN? AND DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH TANZANIAN LAW PROMOTE UMALAYA KWA WANAUME? AND UMASIKINI? IS THIS RIGHT TO BOTH MEN AND WOMEN? WHY MEN HAVE TO BE SEEM AS WEAK HUMAN BEING, WHO DO NOT HAVE WILLING AND CONTROL OVER THEIR BODIES? THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DOGO (hee as ur name say)

 

[Susuviri]

Nyaniiii! Uko very reasonable except for Babu yako McCain! (Umeona babu yako alivyokuwa reasonable siku hizi, one can even get to like him almost again!)
Anyway, I agre that legally President hajavunja sheria but that is not the point here, but we are looking at it from a moral point of view and also taxpayers'point of view.

 

[Pundit]

Nyaniiii! Uko very reasonable except for Babu yako McCain! (Umeona babu yako alivyokuwa reasonable siku hizi, one can even get to like him almost again!)
Anyway, I agre that legally President hajavunja sheria but that is not the point here, but we are looking at it from a moral point of view and also taxpayers'point of view.

Moral kwa morality ya kina nani? Waafrika hawana morality ya one man one woman, actually JK has a very modest number of wives (if at all the story is credible) compared to the Mkwati's and the Zumas of Africa.

Ukienda kwenye morality ya dini yake nayo hajaivunja, sasa hii morality inayosemwa hapa ni ipi? Ndiyo maana mimi nikasema hizi ni western/ Judeo-Christian ideals na morality watu wakaona nina brand unfairly.

My only problem is, if at all the story is true, the hush hush nature of it all.

 

[Susuviri]

Moral kwa morality ya kina nani? Waafrika hawana morality ya one man one woman, actually JK has a very modest number of wives (if at all the story is credible) compared to the Mkwati's and the Zumas of Africa.

Ukienda kwenye morality ya dini yake nayo hajaivunja, sasa hii morality inayosemwa hapa ni ipi? Ndiyo maana mimi nikasema hizi ni western/ Judeo-Christian ideals na morality watu wakaona nina brand unfairly.

My only problem is, if at all the story is true, the hush hush nature of it all.

Mmh, mkuu Pundit, nimeizungumzia sana hii ishu kuhusu religion and morality, ukisoma vizuri hata aliye mada amezungumzia human rights kama morality siyo ya kidini.
But once we can move away from religion this issue stands on weak grounds wa sababu ukiniambia kuhus Mkwati etc, narudia, there were other than religious reasons for this (political economic, social) which are no longer relevant today. Cjui umenipata mkuu?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Nyaniiii! Uko very reasonable except for Babu yako McCain! (Umeona babu yako alivyokuwa reasonable siku hizi, one can even get to like him almost again!)
Anyway, I agre that legally President hajavunja sheria but that is not the point here, but we are looking at it from a moral point of view and also taxpayers'point of view.

Ile McCain ilikuwa ni reaction ya loss ya Mama tu. Kama Mama ndo angekuwa yeye nadhani sote tungekuwa timu moja. Lakini hayo yameshakwisha na I will always remember the spirited discussions, won't you? That was a hell ofa time!

Ila haya mambo ya morality mimi sijui hapa yanaingiaje. Kungekuwa na morality set of rules ambazo wote tunatakiwa (sijui na nani) kufuata hapo ningekubaliana na wewe kwa sababu kitu ambacho kiko moral kwako kwa mwenzake kiko immoral. Sasa hapo nani yuko sawa?

Anyways don't be a stranger buddy.

 

[Mtwike]

The more you deny it not being religous issue, the more you drown in Quicksand.
Ushahidi wa vitabu vya dini wadaiwa!

Hivo bora tuwe na Kiongozi asiye muaminifu kwa mke wake (Clinton/Monica) au kiongozi mwenye wake wawili (JK)?
Yes, akiwa na kimada, not to be defended, rather aibishwe.

 

[Pundit]

Mmh, mkuu Pundit, nimeizungumzia sana hii ishu kuhusu religion and morality, ukisoma vizuri hata aliye mada amezungumzia human rights kama morality siyo ya kidini.
But once we can move away from religion this issue stands on weak grounds wa sababu ukiniambia kuhus Mkwati etc, narudia, there were other than religious reasons for this (political economic, social) which are no longer relevant today. Cjui umenipata mkuu?

You have not made yourself clear, wazee wa Afrika moja ya shani zao ni kuoa wake wengi, kwa hiyo the social aspect haijaondoka pale.

Sijui wanaopinga Kikwete asioe wake wengi wanapinga kwa minajili gani, hiki kitu hakijawekwa sawa hapa.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

You have not made yourself clear, wazee wa Afrika moja ya shani zao ni kuoa wake wengi, kwa hiyo the social aspect haijaondoka pale.

Sijui wanaopinga Kikwete asioe wake wengi wanapinga kwa minajili gani, hiki kitu hakijawekwa sawa hapa.

Wanapinga kwa minajili ya ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu. How that is beats me!

 

[under_age]

You have not made yourself clear, wazee wa Afrika moja ya shani zao ni kuoa wake wengi, kwa hiyo the social aspect haijaondoka pale.

Sijui wanaopinga Kikwete asioe wake wengi wanapinga kwa minajili gani, hiki kitu hakijawekwa sawa hapa.

well done pundit! ndo maana nikasema na vijiathari vya wamagharibi vimeingia hapa. siko sure na hili na naomba nielimishwe kwa wale wanaoielewa katiba ya kibongo ,hivi kuna kipengele kinachozuia polygamy katika katiba ya kibongo?.

 

[Kwaminchi]

Wakuu,

Nafikiri, kabla ya kuwatetea wanawake walio-olewa, Watetezi ya haki za binadamu/wanawake, wangeelekeza kwanza nguvu zao kuwatetea akina mama/dada wanaolazimika kujiuza mitaani. Pia badala ya kuwalaumu akina baba/kaka wanao-oa zaidi ya mke mmoja, wangewatolea macho wale akina baba/kaka ambao hawajatulia, wanaowaacha wake zao majumbani na kuhangaika mitaani na vile vile akina baba/kaka ambao hawataki ku-oa lakini wanahaha vichochoroni.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

I have not said that polygamy was an import from another country. It is an import from our own past. Note though that its justification does not stand or fall on its being from the past. Culture is dynamic. We move on with the good and abandon the bad. We have always done that.

Mkandara argues that we should not criticise our President for being a polygamist "because we have no law against polygamy". But that is holding the Presidency to a very low standard! We have no law against walking around with a running nose either, but we do not expect our President to exercise that liberty! Presidents are expected to be men or women of very high moral standards, and being promiscuous is not one of those!

Verily Verily argues that while our intentions might be good, polygamy cannot be done away with. Yes it can, and it has in fact been done away with in all developed countries. The only reason we continue to cling to it is because we are not only not developed, but we are not even developing (in some departments). We continue to cling to oppressive customs and traditions that lead some of us skin others, slaughter albinos and marry many wives.

The argument that has been advanced by some, repeatedly, that people enter into polygamous marriages willingly and there is therefore nothing wrong with the arrangement is fallacious. We have outlawed many things that are done willingly. Things like euthanasia and homosexuality are illegal in Tanzania and yet they are things that are normally done among consenting adults.

Pundit has accused me of trying to be more Catholic than the Pope! He wonders why I should be concerned about gender rights in a case where women seem to have no problem. Perhaps he missed my story about Malcolm X's categorization of Negroes. Please indulge me, for it seems to me that it is worth repeating. In one of his man fiery speeches, Malcolm X said: "There are House Negroes and Field Negroes. The House Negro loves his master. When the master is sick, he says "We sick, master?"". Would you not agree with me, dear Pundit, that the House Negro's human rights were being violated, irrespective of whether he complained or not?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

I have not said that polygamy was an import from another country. It is an import from our own past. Note though that its justification does not stand or fall on its being from the past. Culture is dynamic. We move on with the good and abandon the bad. We have always done that.

Mkandara argues that we should not criticise our President for being a polygamist "because we have no law against polygamy". But that is holding the Presidency to a very low standard! We have no law against walking around with a running nose either, but we do not expect our President to exercise that liberty! Presidents are expected to be men or women of very high moral standards, and being promiscuous is not one of those!

Verily Verily argues that while our intentions might be good, polygamy cannot be done away with. Yes it can, and it has in fact been done away with in all developed countries. The only reason we continue to cling to it is because we are not only not developed, but we are not even developing (in some departments). We continue to cling to oppressive customs and traditions that lead some of us skin others, slaughter albinos and marry many wives.

The argument that has been advanced by some, repeatedly, that people enter into polygamous marriages willingly and there is therefore nothing wrong with the arrangement is fallacious. We have outlawed many things that are done willingly. Things like euthanasia and homosexuality are illegal in Tanzania and yet they are things that are normally done among consenting adults.

Pundit has accused me of trying to be more Catholic than the Pope! He wonders why I should be concerned about gender rights in a case where women seem to have no problem. Perhaps he missed my story about Malcolm X's categorization of Negroes. Please indulge me, for it seems to me that it is worth repeating. In one of his man fiery speeches, Malcolm X said: "There are House Negroes and Field Negroes. The House Negro loves his master. When the master is sick, he says "We sick, master?"". Would you not agree with me, dear Pundit, that the House Negro's human rights were being violated, irrespective of whether he complained or not?

I wasn't aware that homosexuality was illegal in Tanzania. When did this happen?

Also, my stance on this whole issue is this: you can't legislate love. It has never worked and it will never work.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Sijui wanaopinga Kikwete asioe wake wengi wanapinga kwa minajili gani, hiki kitu hakijawekwa sawa hapa.

- Wakuu this is off the line, tujaribu kuheshimu imani za watu, ninajua kuwa kwa Wa-Islam kuoa mke zaidi ya mmoja sio dhambi na wala sio a crime kwa sheria zetu za jamhuri.

Tujaribu kuheshimu dini na imani za watu, na hasa zisizokuwa zetu, ili dini zetu ziheshimiwe pia.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Nyani Ngabu,

Homosexuality has always been illegal in Tanzania. And rightly so too. But I digress. You state that it is not possible to legislate love. That may be so, but you certainly can legislate against polygamy. That is not legislating against love (unless love is polygamy and it clearly isn’t)

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Mzee ES, Heshima mbele Mkuu!

Kusema tuoe mke mmoja moja sio kupinga Uislamu. Uislamu unaruhusu kuoa mke mmoja. Tena unafundisha ikiwezekana tuoe mke mmoja tu!

JK ni Rais wa Tanzania. Tunamshutumu kwa kuendeleza tabia mbaya. Ameteua wanawake wengi kwenye nafasi mbali mbali muhimu, na hilo ni zuri. Tatizo linatokeza pale anapoonyesha unafiki wa kumwonea aibu mmoja wa wake zake. Kuoa wake wengi ni kudharau wanawake.

JK amefanya wanawake vifaa vyake vya starehe. Hiyo ni kukebehi utu wao. Akienda kwenye kampeni aende na wake zake wote, ili wananchi wajue ni mtu wa aina gani wanatakiwa wampe kura. Hizi ni zama za uwazi.

 

[Mag3]

Kitu gani kinamfanya mume afikie uamuzi wa kuongeza mke ? Nikipata jibu makini kwa swali hili nitakuwa na maswali mawili ya nyongeza. Ninavyojua mimi hakuna mila au dini inayolazimisha hali hiyo bali utashi binafsi.

 

[Zero]

Augustine,
I thought this thread was over! Well, it seems not. Watu bado hawajakuelewa pale unapozungumzia ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu. Wewe umekiri kabisa kwamba baadhi ya dini zinaruhusu kuoa mke zaidi ya mmoja. Tukakubali kwamba hili ni suala la kiimani japokuwa imani nyingine zinavunja haki za binadamu. Sio kila suala la kidini ni la haki. Tumeona baadhi ya dini zikihalalisha watu kuuawa au kukatwa viungo kama adhabu kwa kosa fulani. Hii ni kinyume na haki za binadamu.

Lakini kwa hili la muheshimiwa wetu, hoja sio kuoa wake wawili. Bali hoja ni kutokumpa fursa sawa mke mmoja. Hapa ndipo hoja ya ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu inapoingia. Kama nilivyosema huko awali, mimi sipingi rais kuwa na wake wengi, nachopinga ni mmoja wa wake hao kufichwa ndani.