Kwanini Padri Luther aliondoa baadhi ya vitabu kwenye Biblia, na kwanini alijiondoa Kanisa Katoliki?

Kwanini Padri Luther aliondoa baadhi ya vitabu kwenye Biblia, na kwanini alijiondoa Kanisa Katoliki?

Ndugu yangu...''tunanyweshana detto na dawa ya mbu makanisani kwetu?....wapi hiyo umenishuhudia, kwanini usitumie hii forum kufundisha na kuelewesha bila kushambulia kwa maneno makali namna hii. Detto imekuwa juice? Maandiko yanasema usitukane wengine, Nina imani unaamini ulichokiandika hakiendani na Biblia unayoiamini...
Wewe unafikiri wale waumini walionyweshwa detto na wachungaji wao ulikuwa unadhani walifanya hivyo kwa kutumia kitabu gani...? Si ni biblia hii hii..? Shida kubwa wsliyokuwa nayo hawana elimu Mungu na Biblia .(Theology)
 
.Infact People don't talk much about the deuterocanonical books these days...na wanajua kwanini hawasemi...Nadhani hii forum itawafanya
Sasa tujikite kwenye mada...
Unafukiri ni kwanini huyu Luther alivuondoa vitabu hivyo..?? Na nini kilimpelekea yeye kufanya attempt ya kuondoa vitabu vya Ufunuo, Yakobo na Waebrania..?
 
Upagani na Roman Catholic ni vitu viwili tofauti...ni vyema kukaa kimya au kutokushare jambo kama hujui kuliko kulopoka na ukaathiri mood ya watu...
Upagani ni hali ya mtu kutokutambua na kuamini uwepo wa Mungu (Jehovah) kuwa ni Mungu wa Kuabudiwa na Kumtii kwa amri zake na sheria zake sawasawa na Biblia na kwamba yeye ndiye Muumbaji wa kila kitu na anaishi tena hafananishwi na mtu yeyote au kitu chochote hapa duniani au mbinguni au kuzimu.. huyo ndiye mpagani..
Roman Catholic ni Kusanyiko la watu wanaomini Mungu yupo huwezi wafananisha na wapagani..hapana..hiyo ndiyo tafsiri yangu.
Asante
Ndaga nashindwa kujua nikuweke kwenye kundi gani kwa kuniambia kama nashindwa tofautisha Ukatoliki na upagani......?Rejea post ya Kitaja,

NUKUHU. Hilo limefanyika kabla ya Kanisa kuungana na upagani wa Kirumi ambao walianza kupotosha chini ya Kanisa Katoliki.
Wewe Ndaga baada ya post ukasupport kwa Great vyema/vzuri nikakuuliza Great kvp....?ukasema ameeleza vyema,mm nikaomba kuoneshwa/kudhibitishiwa upagani wa Roman Catholic,nafkr nimeeleweka kabla sijaendelea na vitabu 7 vya Deuterovanony naomba Ndaga unitake radhi kwanza maana Kitaja ulimsupport lkn kwangu umenidhihaki.
 
Tafadhali sana ndg Ndaga na Kitaja ningependa kujua Rumi wali practise vp mafundisho ya kipagani chini ya Roman Catholic
 
Usitukane..We mjibu hoja yake ili kujenga uelewa nadhani ndiyo msingi wa forum hii!
Yesu alipokufa aliliacha Kanisa lisilo na jina, na pale Yerusalemu, Mitume walikuwa na kawaida ya kukutana na Kusali hata baada ya mtawanyiko alipokufa Stefano, wengi walitawanyika kwenda Asia ya Kati, Wengine wakaenda hadi Antiokia (uturuki ya sasa) na huko baada ya wengi Kuiamini Injili ya Yesu Kristo wakaamua kujiita Wakristo..Kwa hiyo Neno ukristo lilianza kuitwa mahali hapo (Mdo:11:26..)
Kwahiyo hakuna mahali ambapo Biblia inatuambia aliacha Kanisa la Catholic, au Sabato, au Lutheran au Pentecoste, au Assemblies of God au lolote unalolifahamu....Ukifahamu hilo tunaweza kuendelea zaidi ya hapo...Karibu
Ni sawa kabisa, na hawa Wakristo ndio waliofanya kazi ya kukusanya pamoja maadiko ya agano jipya wakiunganisha na yale ya agano la kale,kisha ikapatikana Biblia moja.Inashangaza Roman Catholic Church wanapojipa madaraka ya kuwa wao ndio waandishi wa Biblia ilihali kanisa la roma limeanzishwa rasmi katikati ya karne ya 3 na 4. Kipiindi hicho mitume wote wakiwa wamekufa. Mfalme wa kirumi Constantino ndiye alikuwa wa kwanza kutangaza muungano baina ya dola na kanisa mnamo mwaka 313 AD na kukomesha nateso kwa wakristo.Mwaka 380 AD ndipo Mfalme Theodosius alipoifanya dola ya kirumi kuwa ya kidini yaani "religious state".Lengo la muungano huu sio kuwa walikuwa wanamkubali Kristo na kutaka kuwa wafuasi wake,bali walitaka kuifanya dola ya kirumi iwe na nguvu zaidi kwa kutumia kofia ya dini.Wakaiita Roman Catholic Church yaani kanisa la kirumi la mahali popote.Catholic simply meant " everywhere". Na Papa wa kwanza alianza mwaka 538 AD baada ya kusimikwa rasmi na Mfalme Justinian.Hivyo papa akapewa madaraka ya kidini na kiserikali. Yaliyootokea baada ya hapo ni kupindisha mafundisho ya Neno la Mungu na mateso na mauaji kwa Wakristo waliompinga papa na mafundisho potofu.Nitaeleza vizuri wakati mwingine nikijaliwa katika thread nyingine.Leo ngoja niishie hapa.
 
Ni sawa kabisa, na hawa Wakristo
Hujanijibu hapa ..Ni Wakristo gani hao...? Walikuwa hawana jina...? Origin yao ni wapi...? Waliishi wapi..? Jibu haya maswali kwanza...

ndio waliofanya kazi ya kukusanya pamoja maadiko ya agano jipya wakiunganisha na yale ya agano la kale
Tupe hatua za Ukusanyaji wa Biblia...? Je! Walikusanyaje...? Nyaraka zilikuwa ngapi..? Vitabu vya Ufunuo vilikuwa vingapi...? Injili zilikuwa ngapi...???

,kisha ikapatikana Biblia moja
Unafikiri hiyo moja ilikuja kirahisi...? Unafamu zilikuwa Injili ngapi kabla ya kuziona hizi nne....?? Unafikiri Biblia uonayo ilikuwa kama ilivyo...Hujui kuwa ni mchakato uliochukua karne na karne....Hujui kuwa ni vitabu makumi kwa mamia viliachwa...? Nakuuliza tena unaijua historia...??? Hatuko kwenye mihemko hapa..

.Inashangaza Roman Catholic Church wanapojipa madaraka ya kuwa wao ndio waandishi wa Biblia
Siyo kujipa madara...Biblia ni ya Kanisa Katoliki...Yenyewe ndio yenye hati miliki...Ime-compile na kukusanya na kuweka kwenye Canon Order uionayo sasa....

ilihali kanisa la roma limeanzishwa rasmi katikati ya karne ya 3 na 4.
Nani kakudanganya hapa..!? Tupe source ya huu uongo wako..

Kipiindi hicho mitume wote wakiwa wamekufa.
Hivi unafahamu Irekia ya Mapapa wewe...? Papa wa Kwanza Papa Petro alianza mwaka 33 mpaka 67....
Alifuata Papa Linius mwaka 67 mpaka Mwaka 76...,Na list hii inaendelea mpaka Papa Francis....Sasa utasemaje kanisa limeanza Karne ya 3.... Njia ya muongo ni fupi mno....

Mfalme wa kirumi Constantino ndiye alikuwa wa kwanza kutangaza muungano baina ya dola na kanisa mnamo mwaka 313 AD na kukomesha nateso kwa wakristo
Mpaka huo mwaka kulikuwa na mapapa zaidi yac10 Madarakani....Naendelea kukumbua na uongo wako...

.
Wakaiita Roman Catholic Church yaani kanisa la kirumi la mahali popote
Sijui unapotosha historia ya minajili gani...??? Hivi unafikiri nitakaa kimya kukuona unapotosha historia...Historia huwa hipotoshwi kamwe....Neno Roman lilianza kutumika mikaka ya 1600 ya Anglicans...Hakuna Church Documents yoyote utakuta imeandikwa Roman Catholic, bali ni Catholic Church...

.Catholic simply meant " everywhere".
Yes! Catholic ni neno lenye Asili ya Kigiriki inayomasnisha kuenea kote,

Na Papa wa kwanza alianza mwaka 538 AD
Hahahahahahaha....umenifanya nicheke sana...Papa wa Kwanza alianza lini....

Unataka nikuletee Chronological Order ya Pope kuanzia Petro mpaka Francis..? Angalia utachekwa hapa....Kama hukui kitu ni bora kukaa kimya..

.Nitaeleza vizuri wakati mwingine nikijaliwa katika thread nyingine.Leo ngoja niishie hapa.
Utaendeleza nini sasa??? Huoni hata aibu kuandika 1+1=22 angali ni jibu ni 2...?

Nipo...
 
kiukweli umekuwa mkristo usie na faida.
kuabudu miungu na kuvunja amri za Mungu ndiko kunakutesa mpaka umkosoe martini luther.
kajipange upya na hoja zako zenye kukinzana na imani ya ukristo.
Luther nae Kama binadamu alikua na mapungufu yake.
 
In the year 1611 the Bible was translated from Latin into English. Back then the Bible contained a total of 80 books and the last 14 books, which today have been excluded, made up the end of the Old Testament and were as follows:

1 Esdras2 EsdrasTobitJudithThe rest of EstherThe Wisdom of SolomonEcclesiasticusBaruch with the epistle JeremiahThe Songs of the 3 Holy childrenThe history of Susanabel and the dragonThe prayer for Manasses1 Maccabees2 Maccabees

In 1684 all of these books were removed from all versions except for a 1611 edition, which was the very first edition translated into English.

In this first edition you will also actually find that Jesus’ name is spelled IESUS and pronounced Yahashua. So why then does everyone continue to call him Jesus, when the letter J did not even being used at the time?

One of these books that is particularly interesting, is the “Wisdom of Solomon”. For those who don’t know Solomon is one of the most legendary characters from the Bible. He was the son of David and is alleged to be the wisest man that has ever lived. He is painted largely as a benevolent figure. But what you read in this book will make you question everything you were told to believe about him.

Observe the following excerpt;

Wisdom of Solomon 2:1-24

1 For the ungodly said reasoning with them selves, but not aright, our life is short and tedious and in death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.
2 For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath of our nostrils is as smoke, and the little spark in the moving of our heart
3 Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,
4 And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away, with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.
5 For our time is very shadow that passeth away; and after our end there is no returning: for it is fast sealed, so that no man cometh again.
6 Come on there for let us enjoy the good things that are present: and let us speedily use the creatures like as in youth.
7 Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the Spring pass by us.
8 Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds, before they be withered:
9 Let none of us go without his part of our voluptuousness: let us leave tokens of our joyfulness in every place: for this is our portion and our lot is this.
10 Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.
11 Let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble is found to be nothing worth.
12 Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because HE is not of our turn, and HE is clean contrary to our doings. He upbraideth us with our offending of the law, and ojecteth to our infamy the transgression of our education.
13 HE professeth to have the knowledge of the MOST HIGH, and calleth HIS self the child of the LORD.
14 HE was made to reprove our thoughts
15 HE is grievous unto us even to behold, for HIS life is not like other men’s, HIS ways are of another fashion.
16 We are esteemed of HIM as counterfeits: HE abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: HE pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh HIS boast that GOD is HIS father.
17 Let us see if HIS words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of HIM.
18 For if the just man be the Son of THE MOST HIGH, HE will help HIM and deliver HIM from the hands of HIS enemies.
19 Let us examine HIM with despitefulness and torture, that we may know HIS meekness and prove HIS patience.
20 Let us condemn HIM with a shameful death: for by HIS own mouth HE shall be respected…..

This raises a number of important questions

Who is Solomon speaking of killing with a “shameful death”?Why did the Vatican vote to have these 14 books removed from the Bible?Why did Solomon sound so crazy and evil in this book?

It seems that Solomon was speaking of Jesus. But Jesus was born roughly 900 years after his death. Could he have prophesied Jesus’ coming? Let’s consider why this could be who Solomon was talking about;

They killed the SON with a shameful deathThe SON’s actions or fashions were different from everyone else’sHE claims to be and IS the child of The MOST HIGHHe was a righteous poor man who would look at Solomon and others like him as “counterfeits”.HE professeth to have knowledge of The MOST HIGH

Then listen to what Solomon has to say:

HE was made to reprove (criticize) our thoughtsWe are esteemed of HIM as counterfeits: HE abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: HE pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh HIS boast that GOD is HIS fatherFor if the just man be the Son of THE MOST HIGH, HE will help HIM and deliver HIM from the hands of HIS enemies.

And one last thing I would like to point out is when Solomon says;

Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.

This really disrupts everything we thought we knew. Solomon really and truly sounds evil. He is also alleged to be the wisest man in history.

Interestingly, Solomon is a man who was engulfed in the occult, he worshiped multiple gods and was weak for women. And the famous Temple of Solomon is considered to be the spiritual birth place of Freemasonry, a movement that is (at the highest levels) associated with pulling the strings of major global events and argued to be the true controlling power of our world.

Whatever is really going on here, we should certainly research it further.
 
Ibada ya Sanamu imefanyaje..? Unaposema ibada ni nini hasa unamaanisha...?
Kutoka 20: 4-6. Usijifanyie sanamu ya kuchonga, wala mfano wa kitu cho chote kilicho juu mbinguni, wala kilicho chini duniani, wala kilicho majini chini ya dunia. (5)Usivisujudie wala kuvitumikia; kwa kuwa mimi, Bwana, Mungu wako, ni Mungu mwenye wivu; nawapatiliza wana maovu ya baba zao, hata kizazi cha tatu na cha nne cha wanichukiao,
(6) nami nawarehemu maelfu elfu wanipendao, na kuzishika amri zangu.

Kusujudia sanamu hiyo ndiyo ibada ya sanamu, Mungu amekataza, upo hapo?
 
Kutoka 20: 4-6. Usijifanyie sanamu ya kuchonga, wala mfano wa kitu cho chote kilicho juu mbinguni, wala kilicho chini duniani, wala kilicho majini chini ya dunia. (5)Usivisujudie wala kuvitumikia; kwa kuwa mimi, Bwana, Mungu wako, ni Mungu mwenye wivu; nawapatiliza wana maovu ya baba zao, hata kizazi cha tatu na cha nne cha wanichukiao,
Hiyo Amri Mungu hajakataza kuchonga, ila alichokataza ni kuziabudu, yani hizo sanamu kuzifanya zichukue nafasi ya Mungu....
Inaugumu gani kuelewa huo mstari....?

Ungeenda mbele kidogp uone Mungu huyo huyo anayekataza kuchonga sanamu anamruhusu Musa kuchonga sanamu ya nyoka wa shaba...

(6) nami nawarehemu maelfu elfu wanipendao, na kuzishika amri zangu.
Hapo walikuwa wanaambiwa Waebrania...



Kusujudia sanamu hiyo ndiyo ibada ya sanamu, Mungu amekataza, upo hapo?
Ni kweli kusujudia kwa lengo la kuiabudu hiyo sanamu badala ya Mungu, yaani kuipa hiyo sanamu nafasi ya Mungu ni machukizo na ni ibada ya Sanamu...
 
Hiyo Amri Mungu hajakataza kuchonga, ila alichokataza ni kuziabudu, yani hizo sanamu kuzifanya zichukue nafasi ya Mungu....
Inaugumu gani kuelewa huo mstari....?

Ungeenda mbele kidogp uone Mungu huyo huyo anayekataza kuchonga sanamu anamruhusu Musa kuchonga sanamu ya nyoka wa shaba...

Hapo walikuwa wanaambiwa Waebrania...



Ni kweli kusujudia kwa lengo la kuiabudu hiyo sanamu badala ya Mungu, yaani kuipa hiyo sanamu nafasi ya Mungu ni machukizo na ni ibada ya Sanamu...
Duh! kweli walimu wako walikuwa na kazi...sasa unakataa nini na unakubali nini? Neno la Mungu liko wazi, ibada ya sanamu yaani kutengeneza sanamu ya kitu chochote hata ukipe jina gani zuri, hiyo ni ibada ya sanamu na imekatazwa period. Na hapa Mungu alikuwa hawambii waebrania peke yao, bali maelfu na maelfu wampendao Mungu. Neno la Mungu halina ukomo wa muda.
 
Hapa tunaelimishana tu ili ukweli uwekwe wazi na tuufuate tupate wokovu.
Wewe unajitia unajua kumbe hujijui kuwa hujui(MPUMBAVU) Kwani Wakatoliki hawafuati njia ya wokovu au Wakatoliki sio waokuvu....?nataka nikuhakikishie Roman Catholic ndio Kanisa lililoachwa na Yesu Kristo,maandiko yapo na historia zipo ukitaka tuziweke huku zitawekwa tuu.
 
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