Makampuni yanayohudumia ujenzi wa SGR Bongo yanapigwa mnada, makampuni ya Kenya fursa ndio hiyo

Makampuni yanayohudumia ujenzi wa SGR Bongo yanapigwa mnada, makampuni ya Kenya fursa ndio hiyo

Tony254 said:
Borrowing from a commercial bank to build railway is almost unheard of. Commercial banks are there to make profits. I don't know who advises these ignorant neighbours of ours.
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Totally agree borrowing from a bank to build a railway is on of the laziest financial moves i have seen in a while.
I mean with all the options available to a country someone just walked in pale banking hall Stanchart Tanzania, filled some forms and waited for their application to be accepted 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 surelly!!!
 
Kevin85ify said:
You do know our line can carry more cargo than your yet to be completed, three months late sgr right? I hope you know that.
Click to expand...
Tz SGR - 18m Tonnes p.y
KE SGR - 22m Tonnes p.y
Half of kenya's Capacity will be for Nairobi(Industrial & commercial center)
Tz SGR will not carry any cargo for its Commercial & industrial center (Dar)
That is how TZ SGR wins the game for transit (to other countries) and long range hinterland cargo- It will have more cargo capacity
 
Kevin85ify said:
Also remember ethiopia generates 4,600 MW of electricity yet they are having problems powering their electric trains due to power outages. Tanzania produces about 1600 MW , don't you see a problem coming?
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Ethiopia has problems with their Transmission lines, Switching yards etc not electricity. TZ has built a new TL Just for SGR & Connected their very reliable gas fired Electricity plants to it unlike ethiopia's un reliable hydro plants powering their SGR
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
Tz SGR - 18m Tonnes p.y
KE SGR - 22m Tonnes p.y
Half of kenya's Capacity will be for Nairobi(Industrial & commercial center)
Tz SGR will not carry any cargo for its Commercial & industrial center (Dar)
That is how TZ SGR wins the game for transit (to other countries) and long range hinterland cargo- It will have more cargo capacity
Click to expand...
It is a white elephant. Maybe even a white giraffe. There is no business in the hinterland
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
Tz SGR - 18m Tonnes p.y
KE SGR - 22m Tonnes p.y
Half of kenya's Capacity will be for Nairobi(Industrial & commercial center)
Tz SGR will not carry any cargo for its Commercial & industrial center (Dar)
That is how TZ SGR wins the game for transit (to other countries) and long range hinterland cargo- It will have more cargo capacity
Click to expand...
Ha hahaahahahahaha,
a) You always base your arguments on false information.
b) Tz sgr is 17 million tonnes a year, and this is confirmed only for phase 1. Refer to documents from your own contractor.
c) Not carrying local cargo is idiotic and makes no economic sense, it makes local trade and manufacturing more costly so you reduce costs for burundi and rwanda but lock out your own traders from the cost savings? Burundi and rwanda combined will not be able to fill up all 17 million tonnes a year meaning your railway will never ever generate significant revenues.
d) Kenyan sgr is connected to the special economic zones which means industries like toyota, dominion coffee that are aiming to set up shop and manufacture for africa from kenya will use it for exports thus more money from cargo.
e) ethiopia does not have transmission problems, they have a problem of expertise in management of an electric line, which is more expensive to maintain. Training and education determine how such an organization is run.
f) Tanzania does not generate enough electricity to power homes and industries, and any new stations will take at least two years to complete.
 
Tony254 said:
It is a white elephant. Maybe even a white giraffe. There is no business in the hinterland
Click to expand...
There is no argument that Nairobi is the capital of industries just like Dar is for TZ.
Its a Geographical advantage For TZ SGR not to transport any cargo meant for Dar
 
Kevin85ify said:
Ha hahaahahahahaha,
a) You always base your arguments on false information.
b) Tz sgr is 17 million tonnes a year, and this is confirmed only for phase 1. Refer to documents from your own contractor.
c) Not carrying local cargo is idiotic and makes no economic sense, it makes local trade and manufacturing more costly so you reduce costs for burundi and rwanda but lock out your own traders from the cost savings? Burundi and rwanda combined will not be able to fill up all 17 million tonnes a year meaning your railway will never ever generate significant revenues.
d) Kenyan sgr is connected to the special economic zones which means industries like toyota, dominion coffee that are aiming to set up shop and manufacture for africa from kenya will use it for exports thus more money from cargo.
e) ethiopia does not have transmission problems, they have a problem of expertise in management of an electric line, which is more expensive to maintain. Training and education determine how such an organization is run.
f) Tanzania does not generate enough electricity to power homes and industries, and any new stations will take at least two years to complete.
Click to expand...
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2
Screenshot_2020-03-13_152544.jpg
gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
 

Attachments

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...
10. What is the difference between AREMA (American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association) and China standards?
Tue, 03/20/2018 - 06:35 -- sgradmin
i) The difference is in the structure gauge (height and width of the railway system), the design of the embankment, the formation width and specifications of materials, methodology of construction among others.
ii) Use of Chinese standards results in infrastructure that is more durable, more robust and that has higher safety margin.
iii) Over the last 30 years, China has built more railways than the rest of the world combined. Therefore, Chinese railway technology is proven in the industry.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...
ethiopia powers it's addis light rail with 160MW dedicated transmission line. You do realize that for any grid to be stable it must have some percentage of excess power right? Now to power your trains over 200 km of the first phase you may be left with an excess of about 100 MW which will make your grid extremely unreliable for industries and households leading to higher production costs or underutilization of machinery which will make goods more expensive because industry will pass the added costs to consumers. All of this in order to transport 6 containers to burundi and rwanda?
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...
Do not confuse trains with the track, diesel trains are 20% more expensive to maintain than electric trains, but electrified tracks are more expensive to maintain than non electrified tracks. Think monkey think.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...
China class 1 is safer too you forgot to add that because it does not allow for interruptions while the trains are on the track, it is safer too due to superior structures.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...
so you are willing to sacrifice your own industries in order to deliver 6 containers to burundi and still expect your industries to pay taxes to fund the sgr because if you rely on rwanda and burundi I can assure you , you will only run two cargo trains in a day. Kenya currently runs 30 cargo trains a day and four passenger trains and we are yet to break even how will you ever break even with 2 cargo trains a day and three passenger trains, considering you are borrowing loans at commercial rates for your sgr?
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
Tz SGR - 18m Tonnes p.y
KE SGR - 22m Tonnes p.y
Half of kenya's Capacity will be for Nairobi(Industrial & commercial center)
Tz SGR will not carry any cargo for its Commercial & industrial center (Dar)
That is how TZ SGR wins the game for transit (to other countries) and long range hinterland cargo- It will have more cargo capacity
Click to expand...
Tz SGR cargo destination to where or to whom? Msifanye vitu juu wengine wanafanya.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...
The cost of the equipment could be a disadvantage, especially on long distance lines that don't get many users. Also, if the overhead wiring breaks this can cause a lot of delays.
Upgrading lines could also be costly, especially where obstructions, such as tunnels or bridges, need to be altered.
According to another source, their are additional maintenance costs with electrical equipment but if there is reduced track maintenance costs and enough traffic, the electrification is cost-effective.
 
Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:
a) Tz line has capacity for 18m Tonnes
b) Not transporting Cargo meant for Dar is a geographical advantage, Frees up space for Hinterland & Transit goods
c) Tz is Arema, The only advantage class 1 has is less life cycle costs, but you pay for them upfront with class 1's elaborate Embankment structures, bridges for 1.2 View attachment 1387005gradient.
d) KE SGR is not Electric (40% more expensive to operate)
e) KE sgr is not countinous welded
f) Tz has a 500mw excess electric capacity
Here is a comparison of CLASS 1(Electrified+Continous) Vs Kenya's Diesel jointed
Click to expand...

From your own document:-

a) The formation width (top width of embankment) is 7.7 meters for Chinese standards while AREMA is 6.6 meters

b) The height, design and construction of the embankment which is limited to a minimum of 2.5 meters high for Chinese standard and 0.64 meters for AREMA. These high embankments in the Chinese standards require slope protection.

c) The Chinese classification requires the herringbone concrete structure for protection of embankments and concrete masonry for higher embankments of 6 meters while this is not a requirement for the AREMA standards require only benching and grassing. See illustration below:

d) The safety factor in the concrete structures is higher in Chinese standards than the AREMA standards.

e) The utilisation of engineering materials especially the geo-synthetics (geogrid and geotextile) for treatment of soft ground, the backfilling material and soft ground treatments are different in both Chinese and AREMA standards. The general design and construction standard differences in the two standards would therefore make a railway designed and constructed to Chinese standards more expensive than the one designed and constructed to AREMA standards. However, this is only looking at investment cost and not life cycle costs which are much lower in the case of the Chinese standards due to lower operations and maintenance requirements as explained earlier.

f) Nevertheless for Uganda, the Engineering cost estimate provided by Gauff Ingenieure which was based on AREMA standards, is higher than the negotiated contract price of Malaba-Kampala SGR based on the Chinese standard. This was due to meticulous negotiations that were carried out.

g) There is no super bridge along the route but on Uganda route there is a 1KM bridge over the River Nile.

h) The Dar Es Salaam-Morogoro contracting mode is design-and-build, whereby the contract only stipulates the development of infrastructure while in Uganda it is EPC/Turnkey mode which does not only look at the infrastructure but also equipping it for operations with locomotives and rolling 13 | Page stock. The design-and-build places major risks to the employer in case any design inadequacies and or construction defects affect the operations and the performance of the trains, while in EPC/Turnkey, the contractor takes all risks associated with the construction and testing the train system operations.
 
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