MDAHALO: M4C, Hatima ni Mageuzi au Mapinduzi?

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mkuu situation tuliyonayo ni a desparate one,wananchi hawako desparate kwasababu hawatambui haki zao ama kwa kifupi,hawajitambui.Kwahiyo kama m4c inawapa elimu ya uraia,basi watajitambuwa,na wakishajitambuwa,then watagunduwa kuwa wako desparate.Na wakishagunduwa hivyo,watakuwa desparate for change.

Mtu mwenye njaa huwezi kumweka chini na kumpa semina ya kuelewa kuwa ana njaa. Huwezi kumfanya ajitambue kuwa ana njaa.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Sasa nimekusoma na kukuelewa, na nakubaliana na mtazamo huo ambao honestly sikuwa natazama kwa jicho hilo; once you mention of poverty, tayari umeweka mstari wa kitabaka - thats a very good analysis;

Kuhusu suala la classes kutengenezwa na injustices, tujiulize kwanza, je, does capitalism aim to create classes, hence poverty? Na je, mfumo ambao doesnt entertain classes - mfano Ujamaa au Ukomunisti, does it mean there is more justice?

Binafsi nadhani nia ya ubepari sio kutengeneza classes, bali uwepo wa classes ni matokeo tu, hasa katika nchi za dunia ya kwanza ambazo zilishaweka fundamentals of capitalism and free market sawa sawa kabla ya ku open up to the rest of the world; na kama tunakumbuka, mchakato wa kuweka fundamentals hizi sawa ulipitia vita vya dunia, uporaji na uvamizi wa jamii maskini kama Afrika, utumwa n.k; Katika mataifa haya, social, political and economic injustices ni nadra sana kuwepo, tofauti na nchi zetu; Kwa maana nyingine hapa - katika nchi hizi, hakuna uhusiano wa karibu baina ya classes na injustice, kama ilivyokuwa katika jamii zetu;

Lakini je, inatokeaje kwamba mataifa kama Tanzania ambayo yanajipambanua kwamba ni classless, esp miaka ya nyuma, ndio yamejaa kila aina ya injustices and poverty? In my humble view, partial answer to this ni maelezo yangu ya awali kwa Kobello kuhusu the current global capitalist system ambapo kuna jamii ambazo ni permanently favoured to participate from the middle and call all the shots for jamii zilizobakia ambazo zina participate from the periphery - nchi maskini kama Tanzania...

I would refer anybody to read Mwalimu's "A Rational Choice". Nimeipenda sana hiyo kwa sababu ilieleza vizuri kile ambacho Karl Max na Engels walitumia muda mrefu sana kukieleza - the nature of capitalism. Kwamba "naturally" capitalism inatengeneza umaskini.

 

[Kobello]

And when one argues kwamba fighting poverty is fighting injustice or Poverty is injustice, is it based on the premise that poverty is an outcome of injustice?

yES, BECAUSE WHO GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO HAVE 10,000 ACRES OF FERTILE LAND? Or who gave the right of owning something like water sources, oil deposits,wildlife etc? It starts with injustice .... thinking that you have the right because you possess enterpreneurial skills, religious status or just muscles.

I beg to differ na wewe on this one kwa sababu zifuatazo:

Kwanza, you can not dismiss Marxism's role in revolutions, especially in the context of the current global capitalist system whereby kuna almost a permanent positioning of participants ambapo wapo participants in the centre and wengine in the periphery huku wale in the centre calling shots; in the periphery wapo ni poor countries, centre wapo rich countries; ndio maana sio mapinduzi tu, bali harakati zote za ukombozi kuanzia zile ya 1950s pamoja na suala zima la Neo - Colonialism lina so much Marxism in it, ndio maana the Centre Players in the system wanajaribu kila njia ya kuhakikisha kwamba Ubepari and its fundamentals stay intact, huku wakiaminisha kwamba the only way out of poverty ni kupitia REFORMS, sio REVOLUTIONS; Marekani kwa mfano hawakupenda revolution ya Misri kwa sababu it was a threat to what's theirs, na ndio maana kwenye suala la Libya, wakaingia upesi sana to determine the fate of that uprising;

Pili ni kuhusu the French revolution where you argue kwamba:
You have to bear in mind kwamba kuna tofauti kubwa baina ya Political revolutions na Social Revolutions, the former mara nyingi leaves mfumo uliopo intact, huku the later mara nyingi hupelekea mfumo mpya; French revolution was more of a political revolution ambapo mfumo wa mahusiano katika uzalishaji mali na umiliki wa mali haukuguswa sana; wakati Social Revolutions ni kama zile zilizotokea Russia, China, Cuba n.k ambazo ziliambatana na a complete overturn ya mfumo za uzalishaji, usambazaji wa mitaji, mazao, na vile vile mahusiano katika umiliki wa mali;

Kwanza
political revolution is characterized by changes in power structure
with philosophical or social uderpinnings ambazo ndio huchochea revolutions hizo.French and russian revolutions are examples of political revolutions. Social revolutions ni kama vile Renneissance au religious reformations kama za protestants from medieval catholic structures. The line between them is extremely thin.China, Cuba, Us all those are political revolutions.

Do you tackle poverty to eradicate injustices or tackle injustice to eradicate poverty; Which side of the debate would you pick;

Poverty eradication is actually a very relative term and can't be used as a general term. unaweza ukawa na gari na bado ukajiita maskini na unaweza ukawa unaishi kwenye msonge na bado ukajiita tajiri. I don't really see the sense of incorporating povertyi in to revolutions.

Tukija kwenye M4C, i still don't see it as a revolutionary movement. It's a clash between elites, fighting for the mass [peasants and urban dwellers (who really see the pain of a class society)]. When Lema says "Umewaona watoto wa vigogo wakisoma shule ya kata?" well, what about your kids/ or Mbowe's kids? Wao wanasoma shule za kata? ... So what are you saying.
Even during JKN's times we had Arusha school, st. constantine, Nyakahoja, Lyalamo and so on..

 

[Mchambuzi]

I would refer anybody to read Mwalimu's "A Rational Choice". Nimeipenda sana hiyo kwa sababu ilieleza vizuri kile ambacho Karl Max na Engels walitumia muda mrefu sana kukieleza - the nature of capitalism. Kwamba "naturally" capitalism inatengeneza umaskini.

Ingawa sijasoma hii kwa undani, nakumbuka kusoma hii Speech kwa juu juu kwenye moja ya machapisho ya Mwalimu, is it in Freedom and Socialism?

 

[Mchambuzi]

Kwanza
political revolution is characterized by changes in power structure
with philosophical or social uderpinnings ambazo ndio huchochea revolutions hizo.French and russian revolutions are examples of political revolutions. Social revolutions ni kama vile Renneissance au religious reformations kama za protestants from medieval catholic structures. The line between them is extremely thin.China, Cuba, Us all those are political revolutions.

I agree kwamba the line between the two is very thing, but i still hold kwamba Social Revolution is what happened in Cuba, China na Russia, na Political Revolution is what happened in France, with the former undoing mfumo wa awali, huku the later ukiacha mfumo uliopo intact; Kikubwa hapa ni kwamba, despite ya hii thin line, it takes social to be political;

Poverty eradication is actually a very relative term and can't be used as a general term. unaweza ukawa na gari na bado ukajiita maskini na unaweza ukawa unaishi kwenye msonge na bado ukajiita tajiri. I don't really see the sense of incorporating povertyi in to revolutions.

Which means, development which is the term used to contrast poverty or at least to describe the process towards that end, is more of a Freedom; au hata freedom pia ni relative term...

Tukija kwenye M4C, i still don't see it as a revolutionary movement. It's a clash between elites, fighting for the mass [peasants and urban dwellers (who really see the pain of a class society)].

In determining M4C's revolutionary elements, what approach are using: TOP - DOWN or BOTTOM-UP?

 

[Kobello]

In determining M4C's revolutionary elements, what approach are using: TOP - DOWN or BOTTOM-UP?

Without a doubt, TOP-DOWN.

 

[Kobello]

I agree kwamba the line between the two is very thing, but i still hold kwamba Social Revolution is what happened in Cuba, China na Russia, na Political Revolution is what happened in France, with the former undoing mfumo wa awali, huku the later ukiacha mfumo uliopo intact; Kikubwa hapa ni kwamba, despite ya hii thin line, it takes social to be political;

They all have the same characteristics!!!
A class strugle.
Mao's was a class struggle (with sprinkles of social revoloution when he added a cultural revolution).It was a class struggle especially ukiangalia au ukilinganisha na Chiang Kai Shek ambae alikuwa purely Nationalist.
Chiang Kai Shek can be compared with The taliban revolution (against a socialist Najibullah).
Lenin used the same approach ya French revolution so did castro, elite intellectuals organizing/using the peasantry/workers a.k.a ploretarians.

What you are trying to talk about is a coup detait kama ya Abacha et al.

 

[TEMPOLALE]

Kwa vile unaamini naichukia sana Chadema!, kwa hiyo mimi ndio naipenda sana CCM na ndio maana chaguo langu kwa mgombea wa CCM ni EL if not Membe!.

Nikisema unaichukia Chadema Not necessarily nimaanishe unaipenda CCM, na kama unampenda EL au Membe unaweza ukawa una sababu zako binafsi, kama nilivyo mimi na sababu zangu binafsi kwa Andrew Chenge natamani sana ashike nchi kwasababu akiwa Waziri tu nilinufaika sana personally.

 

[Karug]

Kama nilivyoanza kuchangia katika mdahalo huu kwamba mada ni nzuri na niseme ni nzuri sana na niseme hii ni mfano wa mada ambazo mtu anaweza kutarajia ziwepo mahali hapa. Ila mada yaenyewe ni pana mno kuweza kuijadili kikamilifu wakati na majukumu mengine ya mwajiri yanakuangalia.....

Kujibu baadhi tu ya uliyo-raise kutokana na mchango wangu niseme kwamba pengine hilo linaweza kuwa ni mada ya kujitegemea tukitaka kuona kama inawezekana kufanya Mapinduzi katika Mageuzi yaliyopo bila kuathiri mfumo wa utawala uliopo...

Jibu langu ni NDIYO na HAPANA: Ndiyo kwa sababu naamini kwamba sote sisi pamoja na watawala wetu tunajua na tunaona wapi panatukwamisha katika kupiga hatua tunayoitarajia! Lakini aidha bado tunatawaliwa na mentality za "mali ya umma" na umma wenyewe kwangu mimi na wewe pamoja na watawala ni "third person" yaani mimi si sehemu ya umma huo na kwa hali hiyo tuaridhika mambo yaende yanvyoenda na/au kuyafanya yaende vibaya zaidi ilimradi mimi napata ridhiki yangu na wanangu, na wanangu wanasoma shule nzuri bila kubeba fagio za chelewa na kuparamia madaladala.

Lakini tukijibadilisha tu namna ya kufikiri na kuondoa ubinafsi tunaweza kabisa kufanya mapinduzi katika kusimamia mageuzi bila kuathiri mfumo wa utawala uliopo. Na pengine niweke changamoto moja pengine ambayo ni rahisi tu hapa; ebu wewe na mimi ambao watoto wetu pengine wanasoma shule tunayoweza kusema ni nzuri (siyo ya serikali) tukiwa na matumaini kwamba watoto wetu watakuja kuwa wenye mafanikio mbeleni kutokana na elimu tunayowapoa, umewahi kuhesabu ni wazazi wangapi wana uwezo kama wako na wa kwangu katika kugharamia elimu iliyo bora?? Na ikiwa ni wachache sana, je, watoto wako ambao unadhani watakuwa na maisha bora kwa vile unawapa elimu bora wataishi katika jamii ipi, na majirani zao watakuwa ni akina nani??!!

Jibu la HAPANA ni rahisi sana kwa kuwa hulka ya binadamu hatupendi kushuka kutoka pale ambapo tunadhani panatunufaisha binafsi! Je, uko tayari kwa hiari yako kuacha kuwapeleka watoto wako katika shule nzuri ili wasome katika hizi za serikali na hela hiyo badala yake uitoe katika mfuko/mfumo wa kuboresha elimu katika shule ambazo kila mtoto ataweza kusoma?? Very likely jibu ni hapana, na ikiwa wengi tunajibu la hapana, hapo ndipo sasa panapoonekana ugumu wa Mapinduzi katika Mageuzi bila kuathiri mfumo wa utawala uliopo!!

Kuhusu mahusiano katika njia za uzalishaji na umiliki wa mali hapa na penyewe ukipaangalia kwa jicho la ujamaa unaweza kudhani kwamba labda pana ugumu maana panatakiwa kuwepo na usawa, n.k. Lakini mchango wangu hapa ni mwepesi tu kwamba equality inaweza kuwa jambo gumu kidogo na pengine si la kushabikia kama tunahitaji kupiga hatua kimaedeleo. Tunahitaji equity zaidi kuliko equality. Tuweke usawa katika ku-access fursa tulizonazo kijamii na kiuchumi!

Mkuu Mchambuzi, mada ni pana mno tunahitaji kuokota kipengele kimoja baada ya kingine ili kuweza kuitendea haki vinginevyo tutaishia kugusa-gusa tu na kuiacha. Nkushukuru sana kwa mara ya tena

 

[Shayu]

Hongera kwa kuliona hilo mkuu tuko pamoja.

 

[EMT]

For the fact is that if a person is urging more communal services or better communal services, he or she is probably also urging that you, as the voter, should be willing to pay more local rates or more taxes. For is they are promising lots of new activities if they are elected, and if they are promising that these will be done without any cost to you, or effort on your part, they are either deliberately misleading you – thinking you are fools or they themselves are fools."

Nimeipenda hii. Promises made during election campaigns should actually be called proposals. After all, campaigning for election is essentially a marketing process, in which candidates present themselves as products, differentiate themselves from the other products and make proposals on how they will perform if they get the job.

While campaign promises can be enticing, talk is cheap. Yaani unamwona candidate ana-promise kitu ambacho it is impossible to implement lakini wananchi wanamshangilia na kumchagua. Ukiwa realistically hakuchagui mtu.

 

[mharakati]

M4C ni njia mojawapo ya kutafuta kura ili wapate viti bungeni na Urais.
Haina elements za kimapinduzi na haina policies bayana za kimageuzi.

Na naomba kutofautiana na wewe kidogo, siamini kama umaskini huleta mapinduzi.

Safi sana great thinker!!! Kobello nasalute na avatar yako ya kimapinduzi

M4c ni kiini macho cha kupata dola fullstop. hamna mikakati mahsusi ya kubadilisha serikali na mifumo yake kadhaa wa kadhaa ikiwemo. Kwa mfano hii theme ya ufisadi inayotawala siasa zetu kwa sasa, si Mbowe wala Dr Slaa aliyediriki kwenda hatua moja mbele na kusema hatua gani mahsusi zitachukuliwa kwa wahusika hawa pindi wakipata dola na hii ni uvugu vugu usioendana na matakwa ya watz wengi. Kwenye kura za maoni za katiba mpya wapo wananchi wengi wanadiriki bila haya wala kuulizwa kwamba wasisahau katiba kuwashughulikia mafisadi kwa adhabu kali ikiwemo kunyongwa, sasa CDM hawako page moja na kiu ya mageuzi hapa Tz namna hii.

A movement ni mass mobilization ya wananchi ili kupata nguvu kubwa ya kuwawakilisha hawa watu na mawazo yao na kutekeleza kiu yao ya muda mrefu, bila CDM kuoanisha taswira ya jamii (siyo lazima wawanyonge wahusika wa ufisadi ili kuuzika ufisadi wenyewe ) na yao inayolalia kwenye mantiki ya kua Taifa linahitaji kua tune up kidogo tu kwa kubadilisha vipaumbele na chama, kwa hili CDM naweza kusema siyo msemaji wa wanachi wa ukweli.

then najiuliza whats the point ya kuvaa mgwanda kama mko vitani wakati mnachotaka kubadilisha ni kitu kidogo tu au ikiwezekana hamna kabisa cha kubadilisha zaidi ya change of party toka kwa elites to counter elites/elites out of power?

 

[joely]

MKUU UMEJITAHIDI SANA KUJIELEZA , ILA NAPATA PICHA TATU AMBAPO MOJA ITAKUWA SAHII
1. UMEPOTEZA MATUMAINI KATIKA NCHI YAKO
2. HAUJAJISHUGHULISHA KUTAFUTA UKWELI KUHUSU M4C YA CDM , PENGINE HUWA UNASUBIRI TAARIFA YA HABARI NDO UPATE YANYOENDELEA CHADEMA
3. UNAWEZA KUWA KIJANA MTUNDU KUTOKA NYUMBA YA JIRANI UNARUSHA MAWE KWENYE PAA LA NYUMBA LA JIRANI

KAMA NI NAMBA 2 HAPO JUU, TWENDE PAMOJA:


CDM KUNA MALENGO YA MUDA MFUPI NA MUDA MREFU.
Lengo la muda mfupi ni kutoa fikra na sera mbadala na la muda mrefu ni kuchukua dola na kutekeleza misingi na mipango mbadala.

M4C SIO KAULI MBIO KAMA KILIMO KWANZA, M4C SIO KAULI MBIU ITAKAYOTUMIKA KUONGOZA NCHI, KIMSINGI M4C NIKAULI MBIU YA KUWAHAMASISHA WATU KIFIKRA NA KISERA ILI WAJUE CDM STANDS FOR WHAT. M4C INAWAJIBU WA KUTOA ELIMU KWA WATANZANIA, NA KISHA KUWAACHA WENYEWE WAAMUE KAMA WANATAKA MABADILIKO AU LAAH, M4C NI KAMA MCHUNGAJI ANEPELEKA NG'OMBE MTONI KUNYWA MAJI.NG,OMBE ANAUAMUZI KUNYWA AU ASINYWE.
M4C NI KAMA KAMA KIPAZA SAUTI TU IKIWA UTAKWENDA KANISANI AU MSIKITINI BADALA YA KUSIKILIZA SAUTI INAYOTOKA KWENYE KIPAZA SAUTI(SERA) WEWE UKAWA UNASHANGAA VIPAZA SAUTI HIYO NI JUU YAKO.

KITAKACHOKUJA KUONGOZA NCHI IWAPO CDM ITAPATA RIDHAA YA WANA WA NCHI NI SERA ZITAKAZOENDANA NA ITIKADI ZA CDM, SERA ZA CDM ZIKO WAZI KABISA, KAMA UNAHITAJI UTAPATA. ILI UJUE M4C INATAMBULISHA NINI?

HOFU YA KUKOSA WATU SAHIHI NI PROPAGANDA YA KIZUSHI, KUMBUKA KM SIO MIMI NA WEWE KUONGOZA HII NCHI BASI WATATUONGOZA WENGINE, NA KAMA WAO SIO SAHII KOSA NI LA KWANGU MIMI NA WEWE, UKIZINGATIA KUWA HATUWEZI IMPORT MTU KUJA KUWA KIONGOZI WETU, SO BE THE CHANGES YOU WANT.

MALALAMIKO YAKO YOTE YASINGEKUWEPO KAMA CCM INGEKUWA INATIMIZA WAJIBU WAKE, WA KUTENDA HAKI, NA KUANDAA VIONGOZI KWA NJIA HALALI SIO MAMBO YA BMW. HIVYO NI WAZI KABISA CCM NDO ILIYOKUSABABISHIA HOFU NA KUKUTOA TUMAINI,

USITISHIKE , USIOGOPE KWANI MWALE WA MWANGA UMEONEKANA KUPITIA KWENYE TUNDU LA DIRISHA, AMKA ACHIA BLACKET NI MUDA WA MAPAMBANO YA KIDEMOKRASIA.
KWA HAPA TULIPOFIKIA CCM HAIWEZI KUTUONGOZA TENA TUKASONGA MBELE.

OUR FUTURE IS TODAY DONT WAIT ANY LONGER

 

[Mchambuzi]

They all have the same characteristics!!!

A class strugle.
Mao's was a class struggle (with sprinkles of social revoloution when he added a cultural revolution).It was a class struggle especially ukiangalia au ukilinganisha na Chiang Kai Shek ambae alikuwa purely Nationalist.
Chiang Kai Shek can be compared with The taliban revolution (against a socialist Najibullah).
Lenin used the same approach ya French revolution so did castro, elite intellectuals organizing/using the peasantry/workers a.k.a ploretarians.

What you are trying to talk about is a coup detait kama ya Abacha et al.

I am not referring to Coup d'etats za Kijeshi, ingawa hizi nazo ni mapinduzi; Nazungumzia Mapinduzi ya UMMA yanayochukua sura ya Kisiasa au Kijamii; I would say kwamba they are all closely related rather than having the same characteristics; All that said and done, it all depends on what side of the argument one picks, vinginevyo as you rightly put it, there is a very thin line, especially kwa sababu outcome ya mapinduzi mengi ni ile ile i.e. radical changes katika mfumo uliopo; Naomba niongezee/nisisitize mambo mengine mawili hapa:

Kwanza - we have to bear in mind that - REVOLUTIONS are employed when REFORMS DO NOT WORK; And Economic forces ndio the key determinant towards that end– whether it is from Elites' point of view (kwamba wanataka an equal share of the cake), or it is from the point of view of the Masses ambao mara nyingi hutumiwa na ‘Elites' kufanikisha their political and economic interests; in other words, MAPINDUZI NI CLASHES OF THE ELITES KULIKO CLASHES OF THE PEOPLE, and Economics plays CRITICAL ROLE. Umeligusia kidogo suala hili hapo awali katika maoni yako juu ya intentions za M4C;

Na suala la pili ni kwamba - kwa vile madhara ya mapinduzi ni makubwa sana kwenye mahusiano ya uzalishaji, na umiliki wa mali, mfumo wa ubepari kwa miaka yote umekuwa unapigania MAGEUZI kama njia ya kurekebisha mifumo isiyokuwa "JUST", ili kuokoa jamii husika isitumbukie katika MAPINDUZI, kwani Mapinduzi leads to the reorganization of the entire social structure, hence the relations of production and all other fundamentals that are key to the sustenance of Capitalism and the Market Economy; The question that follows ni je, if Revolution is to happen in Tanzania via M4C, what would it be directed at? Ni dhahiri Chadema hawawezi kuunga mkono any movements zinazopinga sustenance of capitalism and the free market, Kwahiyo iwapo UMMA wa Tanzania utakuja kuamka na kuanza revolts kupitia M4C, Chadema itahakikisha inahimiza mfumo wa kibepari na soko huria ubakie kama ulivyo, na badala yake kuelekeza upepo wa mapinduzi hayo on civil issues/rights, hasa the rights of Watanzania to LEGAL, SOCIAL & ECONOMIC EQUALITY in the context of Economic and Political Liberalism;

After all, all this would mainly be political and rhetoric kwani any real revolution in Tanzania ought to be Marxist in nature, vinginevyo we should continue to see reforms for the next unforeseeable future;

 

[aminiusiamini]

Utawala wa waadilifu upi? Tusidanganyane bana mimi naishi Tanzania. Na nilioandika ndio ukweli hata kama hamtaki kukubali. Mabadiliko ya kweli ni ya Fikra. Kama nilivyozungumza kama una akili utasoma kwa makini ili uelewe kama unafuata siasa tu basi endelea hivyo.

Unasema nini? Hutaki kukosolewa hata kama umeandika pumba. Mtazamo wako sio wa wote. Ingependeza kama ungesema huu ni mtazamo wangu kifkra. Sijui umesoma wapi? UDSM? Au iringa?

 

[Kobello]

After all, all this would mainly be political and rhetoric kwani any real revolution in Tanzania ought to be Marxist in nature, vinginevyo we should continue to see reforms for the next unforeseeable future;

I totally agree

 

[Miwatamu]

Mchambuzi: Nimetumia muda wa dakika kadhaa kupitia uchambuzi wako ambao pia umejikita katika utafiti (ambao unaonesha marejeo "Reference" hafifu kitaaluma). Kwa uchache nataka kusema kuwa sehemu kubwa ya uchambuzi wako umejikita katika kuwatia hofu wafuasi wa M4C kwa kutaka kuwaaminisha kuwa kile wanachokishabikia aidha hawakijui kabisa au wale viongozi wao wanawatumia wafuasi wao huku wakiwa na lengo tofauti lililo nyuma ya pazia kwa maana ya “Mass Movements for Revolutions not for Reforms ". Kitu ambacho binafsi sikubaliani nacho!
Hivyo basi kwa kuwa sitataka kujadili hadidu zako zote, kwangu naomba nijibu kwa ufupi tu sehemu ya Nne ya uchambuzi wako.

SEHEMU YA NNE INASEMA: UFUNGUZI WA MDAHALO;

"Baada ya kuweka mdahalo huu katika Muktadha Sahihi (Right Context) na Kujaribu kujenga Hadidu Rejea (terms of reference), yafuatayo ni masuala muhimu ya kujadili

KWANZA, Je: Umma wa Tanzania Una Ufahamu Gani Juu ya Tofauti Hizi Baina ya MAGEUZI NA MAPINDUZI?
Jibu: Kwanza kabisa naomba nikujulishe kuwa asilimia kubwa ya wale wanataka na kushabikia M4C ni vijana moto na wenye upeo mkubwa katika uwanja wa siasa na si ajabu umekaa nao darasa moja au ni walimu wako….. (Tzm: Maprofesa na wengineo)

PILI, Je: Umma wa Tanzania Una Kiu Ya Mabadiliko Ya Aina Gani Baina ya MAGEUZI NA MAPINDUZI?
Jibu: Kiu wanayo! Ndiyo maana nilieleza hapo juu kuwa yawezekana unachokiandika, aidha unakijua kwa kuwa unakiona uhalisia wake au unajaribu kupima ni kiwango gani cha uelewa walichonacho wale wanaotaka mabadiliko ya utawala na wala si MAPINDUZI kama wewe unavyotaka kuwaaminisha. Kwa ujumla wake watu wanahitaji kupata mikakati mbadala na sura tofauti hasa ikiwa na ile tabia ya kuendesha nchi kama kampuni ya kifamilia.
Lakini kubwa katika hali ya sasa nchi zote zenye maendeleo ni zile zenye utawala wa zaidi ya chama kimoja; anza na Marekani, Uingereza, Ujerumani,Uholanzi Japani Russia na kweingineko….!

TATU, Je: Viongozi wanaoendesha “Mass Movements” wana lengo gani – kuboresha Mageuzi (Reforms) ambazo Serikali ya CCM imekuwa inazitekeleza kwa miaka 26 sasa chini ya usimamizi wa IMF na World Bank au Viongozi wanaoendesha hizi “Mass Movements” wanalenga mbali zaidi ya Mageuzi?
Jibu: Ili kuonesha kuwa CCM sasa hivi inafanya kazi kama chama cha upinzani; kwanza ni hali yake ya kufanya kazi zake kwa kutekeleza matakwa ya Chadema, mpaka hapo utaona kuwa tayari chadema ipo madarakani hivyo kilichobaki ni kuthibitishwa kwa wananchi tu. Jambo la pili ni lile la IMF na WB kuiburuza nchi kana kwamba haina watawala wenye fikra ya kusema hiki ni sawa au la! Kama hivyo mbona kuna mambo ambayo nyerere alikuwa akiwakatalia?!! Utaifa kwanza.

NNE, Je: CCM ina nafasi gani katika kipindi hiki kuelekea 2015 kujenga imani mbele ya UMMA kwamba njia sahihi ya kuelekea kwenye mabadiliko ya kweli kwa wananchi – more economic, social & political justice [kwa pamoja], ni kwa wananchi kuendelea kuiamini serikali ya CCM 2015 na kuwa wavumilivu kwamba CCM itaendeleza MAGEUZI (Reforms) katika sekta za Uchumi, Siasa, Utumishi wa Umma na Usimamizi wa Fedha za Umma, na hatimaye to deliver the promise of: MAISHA BORA KWA KILA MTANZANIA?
Jibu: CCM imekuwepo madarakani kwa kipindi cha zaidi ya miongo mitano sasa! Kama imeshindwa kwenda mbele kwa kipindi chote hicho na badala yake inarudi nyuma kwa kasi ya ajabu! Je, leo itaweza kufanya Reforms ndani ya miaka hii miwili iliyosalia? CCM imebaki ikifanana na baba mlevi ambaye pindi arudipo nyumbani watoto hukimbilia kukaa jikoni na mama yao badala ya kumshangilia na kumkumbatia. Hivyo hata mtoto akikuta amelala sebuleni hatamuamsha. Jipange upya kwani watu wanajua wanchokitaka.
ANGALIZO: kinachoonekana kwa sasa CCM ndiyo inayojiandaa kufanya Mass Revolutions pindi wakishindwa kutokana na jinsi kinavyotumia nguvu nyingi katika kudhibiti wanamageuzi.

Nawasilisha jamvini.

 

[WEMBE WENGE]

Ndugu yangu Mchambuzi
umeanzisha mdahalo nyeti na wenye tija kwa taifa ingawa wengi tunajadili bila kuwa tumesoma na kuelewa kwa undani mdahalo, huu.
Wanajamvi tunasoma haya kwa kutumia simu kwa hiyo inakuwa pengine taabu kusoma na kuelewa vizuri maudhui ya hoja iliyo mezani.
Mdahalo huu kwa kweli ni wa kina na wenye uchambuzi mkubwa wenye akili.

Mimi nijadili hivi:
Jambo moja kubwa la kukumbuka hapa ni kuwa, kwa faida ya Taifa hili watawala ambao ni CCm waelewe kwamba Tanzania ni yetu wote wao na wasiokuwa wao, yaani kwamba Watanzania.
Kwa vile kwa hisia, uwazi, matendo, dalili, ishara, na kila aina ya kuchoshwa kwa utawala uliopo ni busara kuacha watanzania wayapokee mabadiliko ya kisiasa ili hata hayo mabadiliko ya kiuchumi yanayoongozwa na IMF yaweze kufika kwenye mwisho mwema.
Mimi mabadiliko ninayoyatarajia ni ya kimfumo zaidi kuliko ya mapinduzi kama yanayotokea kule nchi za kiarabu.
Labda nikumbushe tu kuwa Wananchi ndiyo watendaji wakuu wa mageuzi yoyote yawe ya Mobilization of the mass, ama movement of the mass, ama regime change, wananchi wanaweza wakatumia mojawapo ama zote kutokana na wakati. Angalia siria, walianza na movement, na wameendelea na hizo nyingine.
Sababu moja tu kubwa itakayopelekea sababu yoyote kutekelezwa, nayo ni dhuluma ama ubabe wa kiutawala, lakini kama watawala wataona kwamba nchi hii ni yetu na wao wanayo nafasi ya kutoa mchango wa kuongoza mageuzi haya kwa njia ya sawa basi hayo mapinduzi hayatakuwepo na M4C itaongoza mabadiliko ambayo watawala wa leo watakuwa watawaliwa wa kesho na maisha yataendele. Wakiutaa ukweli huu kwa kudhani haya ni mambo ya magazeti na vyombo vya habari tuu na kuingiza kejeli, wajue wanaowakejeli ni wananchi waliowapa nafadhi adhimu ya kuwatawala, kwa hiyo wanaweza kuchukua nafasi yao na kuwaambia sasa basi, na hivyo vifaru na mabomu hawayaogopi tena.


Watawala wanayo kawaida ya kudanganyana na kuona kwamba mbinu waliyoiumia mwaka fulani kudanganya umma wakiitumia tena itawasaidia, na huo huwa ndiyo mkondo mbovu wa kuwafikisha kwenye kuhesabu makaburi.
Colonel Gadafi wananchi walivyompinga kwa maandamano, aliingiza propaganda kwamba wananchi walikuwa wakiandamana kumuunga mkono na alipogeuka nyuma aliwauwa na kuwazika kwenye kaburi la pamoja akidhani uongo ule ungeendelea kugeuzwa kuwa ukweli, “aliukataa ukweli” huu ni mfano mmoja tu, sijafika Kenya, Ivorycost, NK.
Naomba kuwasilisha kwa sasa.
Ninadhani umma unahitaji kuongozwa vizuri ili mageuzi yapatikane kwa njia ya kura huru ili matarajio yao yafanane na uhalisia, vinginevyo hata bila M4C, watanzania watasema sasa basi, inapendeza kwamba kuna M4C ambayo imejitokeza kuongoza mabadiliko haya kwa maandalizi ya kuwaandaa waTZ kupokea mabadiliko basi yaheshimiwe. Mabomu yarudi kule Baracks kwa kuwa hayatasaidia na atakayeuwawa ni yoyote hata hao watawala wenyewe kwa vile bomu halina macho.

 

[jmushi1]

Mtu mwenye njaa huwezi kumweka chini na kumpa semina ya kuelewa kuwa ana njaa. Huwezi kumfanya ajitambue kuwa ana njaa.

Mkuu njaa ni suala la kibaiyolojia,hilo huitaji kutambulishwa na semina.Mtu mwenye njaa,uwezo wake wa kufikiri uko diminished.

Ila tukirudi kwenye nilichokuwa namaanisha,ni kwamba elimu ya uraia inasaidia wananchi kujitambua na hivyo kutambua haki zao za kimsingi.Knowledge hiyo inapokuwa spreaded,kama kuna wawili watatu wasiokuwa na njaa kwa wakati huo,basi wanaweza kuwasaidia wenzao ambao hawakuelewa wakati huo wa semina.(kama ulimaanisha njaa literarly),kwasababu kuna wakati hawatakuwa na njaa na pengine wale waliolewa wakawaelewesha.Hata babu yangu nilikuwa nikimsomea gazeti enzi hizo akiwa hai na mimi nikiwa bwana mdogo.Nilimsomea pia makala za kina Ulimwengu na Bagenda,na kumwelewesha.Na ni enzi zile za Mrema.Ni mambo ambayo wananchi wakipata kuyaelewa,basi wanawaelewesha wengine.Sintoshangazwa hata humu,inawezekana kabisa kuna wanaojifunza mengi na wao wanaenda kuwaelewesha wengine ambao labda hawana uwezo wa kuingia humu.It takes time lakini it works

 

[Mchambuzi]

Miwatamu,

Asante sana kwa mchango wako mzuri; Ningependa kujibu hoja zako kama ifuatavyo:

Mosi – Mdahalo Wangu na Hofu Kwa Wafuasi wa M4C

Wakati najiandaa na mdahalo huu, niligundua kwamba upo uwezekano wa HOJA yangu kutoeleweka vizuri, kupotoshwa au kuwekwa completely out of context; Kutokana na hili, ndio maana awali kabisa katika my original thread, nikaomba radhi kwamba ingawa ni mdahalo, nitatumia muda kidogo kuweka mambo fulani fulani sawa ili kuepusha matatizo haya; Nashukuru kwamba juhudi hizo zimezaa matunda kwa kiasi kikubwa sana kwani wadau wengi wamekuwa wanaenda moja kwa moja kwenye hoja huku wakitoa maoni kwamba - nilichokiweka kinatosha kwa kuanzia;

Hadi sasa, ni wadau wawili tu (mwingine ni Joka Kuu), ndio wamekuja na hoja kama yako, hasa accusations kwamba mdahalo wangu unalenga kujeruhi Chadema na Demokrasia kwa ujumla; Nimejaribu kulifafanua hili kwa ufasaha, na ukipata muda naomba usome Post Number 45, ambayo ni majibu yangu kwa Joka Kuu kuhusu suala la mdahalo huu kuwa na nia ya kujeruhi harakati za Chadema, na Demokrasia kwa ujumla; ukipata muda, majibu yangu kwa hoja yako huu utayakuta huko;

Pili – Uhafifu wa Marejeo/Reference Kitaaluma

Kama ilivyo mimi, wewe, au yule, we are both not perfect; Tuna mapungufu yetu kiuwezo wa akili, uelewa, uchambuzi, ujengaji hoja, lakini muhimu zaidi, tuna tofauti za kimtazamo; Ndio maana mdau kama Nguruvi3 ana uzi wake mzuri sana wenye kichwa "Mgongano wa Mawazo", kwani katika mijadala, given our differences, lazima mgongano wa mawazo uwepo; Kwahiyo, niseme tu kwamba uwezo wangu wa kurahisisha mdahalo huu uliishia hapo unapopaona pana mapungufu, suala ambalo ni la kawaida kabisa na nalitarajia in terms of constructive criticisms.

All that said and done, ingawa nilichofanya haikuwa presentation ya utafiti, tafiti zote zimejaa GAPS, ndio maana hata mtafiti atunukiwe Nobel Awards mia moja katika fani ile ile, bado kutakuwa na mgongano wa mawazo. Hii ni kwa sababu lengo la UTAFITI sio KUTOA MAJIBU, bali - to shed more light into the body of knowledge that exists; na kilicho muhimu zaidi katika mchakato huu ni METHODOLOGY AU MBINU zinazotumika katika kuongezea mwanga kwenye ufahamu uliopo; Hata kwenye PhD levels za fani zote, wanachoangalia zaidi Examiners na kukipa Marks, sio utafiti ambao uta change the world, bali the Methodology used katika juhudi za ku-shed more light to the existing body of knowledge;

All that said, kama uliangalia kwa makini hoja yangu ya msingi, nilijitahidi kuheshimu kanuni zote hizi ambapo nilielezea kwamba MABADILIKO huja kwa sura kuu mbili: MAGEUZI au MAPINDUZI, na nikajaribu kufafanua, japo kwa ufupi maana ya dhana hizi mbili; Vile vile, iwapo ulinisoma vizuri, nilielezea jinsi gani Tanzania imekuwa inapitia mageuzi hasa baada ya kuondokana na Sera ya Ujamaa mwaka 1985; katika hili, nilielezea kwa kirefu sana suala zima la the NEW PUBLIC MANAGEMENT under the auspices of the World Bank and the IMF, ambapo literary masuala ya Privatization, Marketization na Liberalization yanatokea huku na kuja kwetu kwa sura ya MAGEUZI ya aina mbalimbali; Kwa mtu yoyote muelewa au mwenye shauku ya kujua Reforms in Sub Saharan Africa zinafuata mkondo gani, ndani ya sekunde chache atakutana na suala la New Public Management ambalo mimi niliingia zaidi kuangalia kwa undani zaidi reforms katika sekta ya Uchumi, Utumishi wa umma, Usimamizi wa Fedha za Umma, n.k. Na katika suala la MAPINDUZI, nilizungumzia mapinduzi ambayo ni incremental vis-à-vis Mapinduzi ambayo ni radical; All in all, niligusia maeneo yote muhimu ambayo ni lenin-marxist in nature, japo kwa juu juu;

Suala lingine muhimu pia niliweka wazi kwamba nia yangu pia ni kuanza kujenga hadidu rejea, nikitarajia ushirikiano wa wadau wengine katika kufanikisha hili; ndio maana iwapo utakuwa unaendelea kupitia majadiliano ya humu ndani, utagundua kwamba kuna exchanges kadhaa baina yangu na Kobello, Jmushi1, na wengineo ambapo tumekuwa tukielimishana juu ya matumizi na maana ya dhana mbalimbali, hasa Mapinduzi, Poverty, Injustice, Class structures in society n.k. Na katika exchanges hizo, nimekuwa nakiri kujifunza mengi, na nina imani kwamba nitaendelea kujifunza mengi zaidi;

Baada ya kujibu masuala haya, sasa niingine moja kwa moja kwenye hoja zako zinazolenga kujibu maswali makuu matano niliyoyauliza kama a guide for our debate.

Swali la Kwanza, je: Umma wa Tanzania Una Ufahamu Gani Juu ya Tofauti Hizi Baina ya MAGEUZI NA MAPINDUZI? Jibu lako:

Kwanza kabisa naomba nikujulishe kuwa asilimia kubwa ya wale wanataka na kushabikia M4C ni vijana moto na wenye upeo mkubwa katika uwanja wa siasa na si ajabu umekaa nao darasa moja au ni walimu wako….. (Tzm: Maprofesa na wengineo)

Nakubaliana na wewe katika hili, lakini roho inasikitika kidogo iwapo mvuto wa M4C kwa hao watajwa ni Ushabiki badala ya believers, followers au kitu kingine more concrete;

Swali la Pili: Je: Umma wa Tanzania Una Kiu Ya Mabadiliko Ya Aina Gani Baina ya MAGEUZI NA MAPINDUZI? Jibu lako:

Kiu wanayo! Ndiyo maana nilieleza hapo juu kuwa yawezekana unachokiandika, aidha unakijua kwa kuwa unakiona uhalisia wake au unajaribu kupima… Lakini kubwa katika hali ya sasa nchi zote zenye maendeleo ni zile zenye utawala wa zaidi ya chama kimoja; anza na Marekani, Uingereza, Ujerumani,Uholanzi Japani Russia na kweingineko….!

Sioni mantiki yako ya kusema kwamba napima upepo wakati katika my original post nilisema haya:
"Suala la UMMA WA TANZANIA Kuwa na kiu ya mabadiliko halina mjadala tena, badala yake, mjadala sasa ni juu ya AINA ya Mabadiliko ambayo Umma unayahitaji, kuelekea 2015".

Vile vile katika majibu yako kwa swali langu la pili unasema haya:

….walichonacho wale wanaotaka mabadiliko ya utawala na wala si MAPINDUZI kama wewe unavyotaka kuwaaminisha. Kwa ujumla wake watu wanahitaji kupata mikakati mbadala na sura tofauti hasa ikiwa na ile tabia ya kuendesha nchi kama kampuni ya kifamilia.

Hapa unayumba kihoja kwani kwanza – unani accuse kwamba nataka kuaminisha UMMA kwamba mabadiliko ya kweli ni Mapinduzi wakati kwa walionisoma vizuri wanaelewa kwamba my presentation ni kwamba kuna aina mbili za mabadiliko – Mageuzi na Mapinduzi, huku nikijenga hoja kwamba ni muhimu kwa umma kujua tofauti hizi, hasa kuhusu nini M4C inadhamiria kufanikisha;

Kuyumba kwako kihoja kunazidi kushika kasi pale unapojichanganya kwa maneno kwamba – wananchi wanataka kupata mikakati mbadala na sura tofauti, bila ya kujua kwamba hizi ni elemements za mapinduzi kwani Mageuzi hayahusiani na mkakati mbadala bali marekebisho ya mikakati au sera zilizopo; bila ya kujijua, hii kauli yako ipo more revolutionary…, na inazidi kusindikizwa na elements za Mapinduzi pale unapoonyesha una machungu na utawala wa kifamilia, wakati sote tunajua hatima ya machungu kwa tawala za namna hii huwa ni nini;

Swali la tatu niliuliza hivi: TATU, Je: Viongozi wanaoendesha "Mass Movements" wana lengo gani – kuboresha Mageuzi (Reforms) ambazo Serikali ya CCM imekuwa inazitekeleza kwa miaka 26 sasa chini ya usimamizi wa IMF na World Bank au Viongozi wanaoendesha hizi "Mass Movements" wanalenga mbali zaidi ya Mageuzi? Jibu lako ni:

Ili kuonesha kuwa CCM sasa hivi inafanya kazi kama chama cha upinzani; kwanza ni hali yake ya kufanya kazi zake kwa kutekeleza matakwa ya Chadema, mpaka hapo utaona kuwa tayari chadema ipo madarakani hivyo kilichobaki ni kuthibitishwa kwa wananchi tu. Jambo la pili ni lile la IMF na WB kuiburuza nchi kana kwamba haina watawala wenye fikra ya kusema hiki ni sawa au la! Kama hivyo mbona kuna mambo ambayo nyerere alikuwa akiwakatalia?!! Utaifa kwanza.

Kwenye hili tupo pamoja; lakini ni muhimu sana kwa Chadema ikaze kamba zaidi kusahihisha masuala mengine yaliyobakia ya msingi ambayo bila ya kuyafanyia kazi, haitaingia Ikulu 2015; mfano, kanuni ya mshindi ni mshindi – mimi nazidi kuamini kwamba iwapo kanuni hii itabakia kama ilivyo, mgombea wowote wa CCM atapita 2015 dhidi ya Chadema, kwani hata matokeo ya Urais 2015 kwa CCM by 50.01% na Chadema 49.99%, Mshindi ni CCM; Vinginevyo ukipata muda, soma hoja zangu nyingine kuhusu utayari wa chadema kutawala 2015 kwa kugonga hapa https://www.jamiiforums.com/great-t...tujadili-utayari-wa-kutawala-nchi-2015-a.html

Swali la nne niliuliza:Je: CCM ina nafasi gani katika kipindi hiki kuelekea 2015 kujenga imani mbele ya UMMA kwamba njia sahihi ya kuelekea kwenye mabadiliko ya kweli kwa wananchi – more economic, social & political justice [kwa pamoja], ni kwa wananchi kuendelea kuiamini serikali ya CCM 2015 na kuwa wavumilivu kwamba CCM itaendeleza MAGEUZI (Reforms) katika sekta za Uchumi, Siasa, Utumishi wa Umma na Usimamizi wa Fedha za Umma, na hatimaye to deliver the promise of: MAISHA BORA KWA KILA MTANZANIA? Jibu lako:

CCM imekuwepo madarakani kwa kipindi cha zaidi ya miongo mitano sasa! Kama imeshindwa kwenda mbele kwa kipindi chote hicho na badala yake inarudi nyuma kwa kasi ya ajabu! Je, leo itaweza kufanya Reforms ndani ya miaka hii miwili iliyosalia? CCM imebaki ikifanana na baba mlevi ambaye pindi arudipo nyumbani watoto hukimbilia kukaa jikoni na mama yao badala ya kumshangilia na kumkumbatia. Hivyo hata mtoto akikuta amelala sebuleni hatamuamsha. Jipange upya kwani watu wanajua wanachokitaka.
ANGALIZO: kinachoonekana kwa sasa CCM ndiyo inayojiandaa kufanya Mass Revolutions pindi wakishindwa kutokana na jinsi kinavyotumia nguvu nyingi katika kudhibiti wanamageuzi.

Nakubaliana na hoja zako ingawa point yako ya mwisho imetoka kijazba; Nijipange kama nani? Mwanachama wa CCM? Kiongozi wa CCM? Kibaraka wa CCM? Mpambe wa Mgombea Fulani?