Muswada wa Sheria ya Mapitio ya Katiba: Download na pitia uone kilichomo na usambaze

[Selous]

Well.. hata sina uhakika; so far kwa ajili ya 2015 the best idea ni kwa CCM kupitisha hii sheria haraka iwezekanavyo bila kuifanyia mabadiliko yoyote.

Sometimes i asked myself if i belong to this nation au najipendekeza tu.......

 

[Kaunga]

Good! mimi nipo poa tu na katiba iliyopo,but I am anxious to see what the opposition comes up with....I can't wait!!

I beg u, pls just for few minutes. Jivue uanachama wako wa chama chochote and then reflect juu ya katiba hii ambayo huoni shida yake, then imagine yafuatayo independently:-
1. Chama unachokichukia/ kukihofia nimechukua nchi, na raisi anayekurupuka ndiye mtawala sasa.
2. 45 yrs have past, u r no longer (umekufa) na huko uliko una access ya kuona huku duniani, unaona jinsi uzao wako unateseka kwa maisha magumu or worse udikteta wa chizi fulani (could be my son)

When reflecting this l ask you to be an Independent soul Great Thinker. Sahau everything about chama, hata laptop hiyo umeipata kwa njia gani! Tell me wont you still see any problems with the current constitution!

 

[Nguruvi3]

Submit your own bill and let the people choose!!.....you can cry all you want,or you
can draft an alternative bill.Facts are facts,we went to the polls and the oppostion lost!

Kobello want to derail us with his inimical and animus posts. I have tried to comprehend his gist in vain. His obfuscation is immaterial; the more people respond the abject he becomes. What if we leave him alone!

 

[Taso]

once again, soma nilichoandika!!!

Umeandika "atajikuta matatani kwani aliapa kuilinda na kuihifadhi katiba hii (kama viongozi wengine vilevile); sasa inakuwaje watu walioapa kuilinda, kuitetea na kuihifadhi katiba hii wanataka kuibadilisha?

Nikasema sio kweli, Rais hawezi kuingia matatani kwa kutaka kubadilisha katiba kwa vile eti aliapa kuilinda Katiba hii, kwa sababu, nikasema, Katiba ya sasa inaruhusu kuibadilisha.

Ukitoa hoja dhaifu unakimbilia "soma nilichosema...wapi nimesema," watu washakunukuu unasema soma nilichoandika? Boloney, ulikosea, ukasahihishwa, nukta.

KATIBA YA JAMHURI YA MUUNGANO WA TANZANIA, 1977, Ibara 98 (1)
``Bunge laweza kutunga Sheria kwa ajili ya kubadilisha masharti yoyote ya Katiba hii``

 

[Kobello]

I beg u, pls just for few minutes. Jivue uanachama wako wa chama chochote and then reflect juu ya katiba hii ambayo huoni shida yake, then imagine yafuatayo independently:-
1. Chama unachokichukia/ kukihofia nimechukua nchi, na raisi anayekurupuka ndiye mtawala sasa.
2. 45 yrs have past, u r no longer (umekufa) na huko uliko una access ya kuona huku duniani, unaona jinsi uzao wako unateseka kwa maisha magumu or worse udikteta wa chizi fulani (could be my son)

When reflecting this l ask you to be an Independent soul Great Thinker. Sahau everything about chama, hata laptop hiyo umeipata kwa njia gani! Tell me wont you still see any problems with the current constitution!

I am very indepedndent but I am socialist! I don't care about the presidential powers,as long as he doesn't have two thirds of bunge.If the president will have more than two thirds of bunge then I will be pissed but I will respect the choice of the majority.
The notion that the constitution gives the president too much power is absurd to me! He's impeachable and don't even have the veto!..I can imagine how powerful will obama or even cameroon be with 80% of the legislature belonging to their parties.

 

[Kobello]

Kobello want to derail us with his inimical and animus posts. I have tried to comprehend his gist in vain. His obfuscation is immaterial; the more people respond the abject he becomes. What if we leave him alone!

Why leave me alone?Why are you getting mad?
My position is clear from the getsgo,I believe in socialism and I am so sorry to say that I don't really get moved by the CDM movement,I just don't see how they can do whatever they are trying to do.I don't get their philosophy at all....but I respect their opinions and agree to any facts that has and will be brought to me by anybody in JF.
I am not trying to be popular here,but I think I have the freedom to express myself!

 

[rosemarie]

Aisee yssni warema na kombani ni wasomi mafala,yaani hawana uwezo kusimamia elimu yao wamesoima ili wasaidie taifa,yaani wao wanaangali maslahi yao binafsi

 

[M-mbabe]

This is what is to be done. Solution based approach. Hii pinga pinga tu bila alternative inaonyesha tu wavivu wa kufanya kazi. We must have our Bill. Huu ndio Upinzani wenye tija, tunawapa raia alternative.

As Deputy Leader of the Opposition, nimemshauri Waziri wetu Kivuli wa Katiba Ndugu Lissu aandae muswada wetu wa mchakato wa mabadiliko ya Katiba.

Nakubaliana kwa 110% kuwa na bill mbadala.

Lakini meanwhile ninajiuliza:
1. ni alternative bills kutoka makundi yepi zitakuwa eligible for discussion?
2. nani ataye-determine eligibility ya alternative bills zitakazokuwa submitted?
3. je, ni vyama vya siasa tu ndio eligible groups kwenye hii process?
4. makundi mangapi au alternative bills ngapi? zikiwa 100 je zitajadiliwa zote?

And many more questions in those lines.

Kwa mawazo yangu (labda ni mafinyu....so I count on your help), hili jambo si jepesi kama tunavyotaka lionekane. It may take ages kupata katiba mpya. Labda kama kutakuwa na only one alternative bill.

Only one alternative bill? Ndiyo, lakini hili lingewezekana tu kama akina Mbowe, Lipumba, Lyatonga, Mbatia, etc wangekuwa kwenye umbrella moja ya so called "alternative bill". Lakini je hili linawezekana kweli kwa mazingira tuliyo nayo sasa?

Sina uhakika.

Nionavyo mimi, kwa hii bill iliyokuwa tabled on one hand, coupled with the absence of a unified approach by the opposition camp and the entire community on the other hand, I can see katiba yetu kuandikiwa "barabarani" na pengine kwa "wino mwekundu"!

Naomba mwongozo!

 

[Mr.Mak]

wenzenu wamewabeep tu.. ili kupata credit mbeleni kuwa walicompromise..

Hata mie toka mwanzo nilivomsikia Rais akizungumzia nilijua isue hii itatokea tu. sasa hivi wanakusanya point za wapinzani kisha za wananchi wachache hasa wale popular then wata add.

Katiba ya mwanzo kiutendaji ili favour mikoa fulan sasa katiba mpya kama kweli wanavyosema ni kweli kuwa watakusanya maoni ya wananchi basi mimi kama mwananchi wa moja ya mikoa iliyosahaulika kiutendaji tutataka nasi tupendelewe kwanza kwa kupewa 1stP. otherwise hatutokubali. Kuna mikoa kibao toka uhuru hazina barabara eti juzi magufuri anasema haraka iwezekanavyo barabara ya kwenda kwa mganga wa kienyeji(babu) itengenezwe haraka! mbona kungine uharaka huo hatuuoni?

 

[KipimaPembe]

• CCM hawataki kubadili katiba kwa sababu wana imani ya uongo kuwa kwa katiba iliyopo hawawezi kuondoka madarakani. Hii ni imani ya uongo tu na inatokana na ulevi wa madaraka
• Washabiki na wafuasi wa CCM wanajua kuwa chochote watakachopeleka bungeni kitapita kwani wana majority ya wabunge. Wanaposema kubadiri katiba haikuwa sera yao, wanakuambia kuwa wanachokifanya sasa hivi si kubadili katiba ila ni kuridhisha kelele za wale wanaodai mabadiriko ya katiba.
• CCM wana ajenda zao za siri ambazo wanataka kuzitumbukiza ndani ya katiba. Haikuwa kwenye sera zao kubadiri katiba ila wamekubali na wanatengeneza taratibu zitakazohakikisha wanaingiza yale wanayotaka wao na mtu mwingine atakuwa hana uwezo wa kupinga.
• CCM wanajua kuwa bungeni huwezi kuwashinda. Watatumia nguvu ya uwingi wao bungeni kufanya chochote, hata kama hicho wanachokifanya wao wenyewe wanajua si kizuri kwa jamii pana. Watafanya tu kwa sababu wanaamini wao ndo wamechaguliwa na wananchi hivyo wengine mlie tu. Hawalazimiki kufanya lolote lililojema kwa jamii pana. Wanalazimika kufanya kile wanachotaka kwani wanaamini mfumo uliopo hawawezi kutoka madarakani.
• Washabiki wa CCM wamekuwa wakisema wapinzani watatuletea ya Rwanda na mauaji ya Kimbari. Ya Rwanda yalisababishwa na serikali na chama kama CCM waliokuwa hawataki kutoka madarakani na kuwaona wapinzani wao kama waleta fujo. Lakini hatimaye kwa gharama kubwa ya damu za watu waliondoka tu. Kwa kauli hiyo CCM wanawaambia watanzania kuwa kuwaondoa madarakani itabidi tulipe gharama kama waliyolipa wanyarwanda kwani wamejiandaa kufanya yale waliyoyafanya watawala wa Rwanda wakati walipoona mwisho wao u karibu.
• Yoote hayo ni kujilisha upepo. Hata kwa katiba hii hii CCM wataondoka madarakani. Hata kama wanaandaa interahamwe yao (usalama wa taifa) ya kufanya mauaji bado wataondoka tu. Njia pekee ya kuifanya CCM ipone ni kukubali uchaguzi wa haki, ishindwe vizuri, waende kambi ya upinzani, baadaye watarejea madarakani. Vinginevyo wanataka waondolewe kama walivyoondolewa watawala wa Rwanda na waeneelee kuwindwa maisha yao yote!

 

[Selous]

Nakubaliana kwa 110% kuwa na bill mbadala.

Lakini meanwhile ninajiuliza:
1. ni alternative bills kutoka makundi yepi zitakuwa eligible for discussion?
2. nani ataye-determine eligibility ya alternative bills zitakazokuwa submitted?
3. je, ni vyama vya siasa tu ndio eligible groups kwenye hii process?
4. makundi mangapi au alternative bills ngapi? zikiwa 100 je zitajadiliwa zote?

And many more questions in those lines.

Kwa mawazo yangu (labda ni mafinyu....so I count on your help), hili jambo si jepesi kama tunavyotaka lionekane. It may take ages kupata katiba mpya. Labda kama kutakuwa na only one alternative bill.

Only one alternative bill? Ndiyo, lakini hili lingewezekana tu kama akina Mbowe, Lipumba, Lyatonga, Mbatia, etc wangekuwa kwenye umbrella moja ya so called "alternative bill". Lakini je hili linawezekana kweli kwa mazingira tuliyo nayo sasa?

Sina uhakika.

Nionavyo mimi, kwa hii bill iliyokuwa tabled on one hand, coupled with the absence of a unified approach by the opposition camp and the entire community on the other hand, I can see katiba yetu kuandikiwa "barabarani" na pengine kwa "wino mwekundu"!

Naomba mwongozo!

Nahisi hii ni mbinu ya CCM as delaying technique kwenye hili suala au wameproject kwa huenda mambo yakawa mabaya after 2015 kwa kuwa kuna uwezekano mkubwa kupitisha mambo kwenye bunge la 11 ikiwa ishu sasa wameona watumie mwanya huu.

Dr. Slaa na Lissu walishazungumza hili kwa kirefu sana, sina lile bandiko either hapa au magazeti au kule wanabidii ambapo sio lazima wao watake lead but ilie presentation inakuwa na sense. Tunajua tuna makundi rasmi na yasio rasmi. Rasmi ni kama NCCR, CUF CDM, TAMWA, CCT, TEC, chama cah maalbino, waendesha bajaj, baiskeli, chama cha wafanyabiashara. sio rasmi kama wamachinga, JF na kadhalika.

Kusema uondoe wanasiasa sasa JK atakuwa na uhalali au waziri? something is not correct here.

Kidogo tu ka mchango wangu.

 

[Kobello]

Ndugu M-babe,
Nadhani opposition wanakubaliana kuwa rais asiteue tume,asiteue constitutional assembly na asiweke vikwazo kuhusu nini kisiongelewe eg.muungano.Kama kutakuwa na motion at least ya ku-amend hii bill,itasaidia pia as long as the mass is behind the opposition and as long as the opposition will vigorously lobby the CCM-MPs....I was very impressed with the opposition when they lobbied their way against the President,Chief justice and CCM-CC during the DOWANS saga!(This can be done,with dedication)....I can't wait to see that happening as long as the mass is with them,they can succeed.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Nadhani wenye jazba wooote, hamjasikiliza watoa mada wote kwa umakini na mmesikiliza kwa sikio moja.
Huu ni mswaada, mswaada si sheria. Na mswaada unaweza tolewa na yeyote na upo wazi kubadilishwa, kufutwa, kuongezwa, kupunguzwa mpaka kufikia unapokidhi matakwa.
Kumbukeni kuwa kwa mara ya kwanza Tanzania tunaingia kwenye mchakato huu na ndio maana makongomano na kugonganisha vichwa kunahitajika ili kufikia kinachitakikana. Ukisema hiki si sawa kiondolewe na utoe na ushauri ya uonacho ndio sawa kijadilike na kama kina manufaa na wananchi kitimizwe.

Nyerere alikuwa anaziandika, badilisha katiba kibabe (kidikteta) bila kushirikisha yeyote awaye. Na thubutu useme kwii.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Ukweli ni kuwa wapinzani lazima wafanye maamuzi magumu. Kutegemea bunge ambalo linatarajia (CCM) kufaidika na katiba mpya ni kosa kubwa sana. Tuelewe kuwa tofauti na mabunge ya wenzetu amabayo maslahi ya umma yako mbele lakwetu ni kinyume chake.

Katiba si ya CCM au bunge kama wachahce wanavyotaka kutuaminisha. Ni mali ya watanzania na kwa watanzania. Uandikwaji wa katiba ni lazima ushirikishe watu wote kutoka ngazi ya chini kabisa. Huu si utaratibu mpya bali ndio utaratibu unaotumika sehemu nyingi duniani.

Kuwashirikisha wananchi ni kuanzia mchakato wenyewe kuanzia mwanzo. Kilichotakiwa ni kuunda tume huru itakayowashirikisha watu wa makundi mbali mbali kuunda tume ya kuandika rasimu ya mfumo utakaotumika. Hili halikufanyika bali serikali kwa kupitia rais imeandika rasimu na sijui ni nani aliiandika hadi leo ikatokea. Wananchi hawakushiirikishwa na uhalali wa kushirikishwa mwisho wa yote haupo.

Pili, hata rasimu hii imempa madarka yote rais kuamua na pengine kuweka matakwa yake mwenyewe. Kwa mfano yeye atateua wanatume wasiozidi 30 kwa kushirikiana na Rais wa Zanzibar. Hapa wananchi wameshirikishwa vipi kuamua nani aratibu kile wanachokitaka?
Pili, idadi ya wajumbe 30 imepatikanaje? je si kuwa tayari hawa watu wameshawekwa kwa kazi hii maalumu, na kama sivyo hiyo 30 inatoka wapi. Tatu, formula ya 50/50 Zanzibar na Bara imepatikanaje na kwa kuzingatia nini?
Nne, Kifungu III (6) (2)(d) kinachohusu gender kilizingatia nini, na kwanini hawakuzingatia wana taalauma.
III (6) (2)(e) kwamba rais anaweza kuchagua mjumbe wa tume ikiwa ataona inafaa, je hii si nafasi ya kuchomeka watu wake.
III (7) (2) kwamba rais anaweza kuongeza muda wa tume mazingira yakihitaji, hii si 'loop hole' ya kubabaisha hadi 2015.
III (13) (1) katibu wa tume atachaguliwa na rais, huyu anawajibika kwa nani tume,bunge, bunge la katiba, rais au wananchi?

Tume ya uchaguzi yenyewe tuna matatizo nayo, lakini imepewa majukumu. Hapa ni hadithi ya kuku na yai, je tupate tume huru kwanza ili isimamie katiba au tupate katiba ili izae tume huru. Na je hii tume huru inayoteuliwa na rais ambaye ni mwenyekiti wa CCM itasimamiaje haki ya kuwa na katiba mpya wakati wa kura ya maoni.
Kama vyama haviruhusiwi kukampeni tume ya uchaguzi itakampeni nini ili kupata 'yes or no', maana yenyewe ni sehemu ya serikali kwa uteuzi wake.

Hoja yangu ni kuwa, hii rasimu ni batili kwasababu haikutushirikisha kuandaa njia za kupata katiba yetu. Kuna nguvu kubwa ya serikali katika maamuzi ya tume na maamuzi mengi amepewa rais. Rais ambaye ni mwenyekiti wa bunge la 'majority CCM' ana udhibiti mkubwa wa wabunge wake na hatutegemei wabunge wapinge mapendekezo ya mwenyekiti wao.
Lakini pia bunge la katiba litateuliwa na rais, haa! wananchi wanashirikishwaje, na je akiteua wakuu wa mikoa na wilaya haki ipo wapi. Na kama tume ya uchaguzi ikipewa jukumu hilo, uhalali wa bunge hilo utatoka wapi ili hali tuna malalamiko na kutokuwa na tume huru ya uchaguzi. Hii ni mifano michache sana kwa maoni yangu, lakini yapo memgi sana ya kuchangaya.

Ni wajibu wa wapinzani kwanza kuzuia hoja hii kujadiliwa, pili kuja na mbadala ulio katika sheria na taratibu zinazokubalika na umma, na kama inaonekana kiburi, basi wananchi waambiwe ili wajue nini cha kufanya.
Kukubali rasimu iingie bungeni ni kitanzi!!!

 

[Gsana]

Why leave me alone?Why are you getting mad?
My position is clear from the getsgo,I believe in socialism and I am so sorry to say that I don't really get moved by the CDM movement,I just don't see how they can do whatever they are trying to do.I don't get their philosophy at all....but I respect their opinions and agree to any facts that has and will be brought to me by anybody in JF.
I am not trying to be popular here,but I think I have the freedom to express myself!

kobello it's your freedom of expression and not that you need popularity.

It's my idea that you aren't and you shall not be popular for your contradictory and your paradox of thoughts, in contradistinction to other members. When people decide to respect you by shunning you, it means you must respect their decision as you seem incopatible and may be inciteful. Your complacement with current constitution shouldn't be pique like that. Unless you inscribe your clandestine in spuriously presented argument of yours, we shall be at hardiship to elicit your idea exactly. Think the situation you call yourself a Socialist while you reject socialist traits and mainly be as social philosophy and then the exact belief 'people's power' as you said politicians in opposition are no way substantial to you. What do you call upon us,we invaluable poor citizens if not be in renege as you promise to eliminate our poverty?

Gentleman, lets agree that our motherlaw needs to be overhauled to let the national cake be impartially enjoyed. Anyway,this step is bypassed,we already had been on same foot that we need a new motherlaw,and the next was how do we go about it and not, and even not whether you desire the outgoing constitution,or not.

In discussing the movement it doesn't matter your political party, here we route between parties to reach the puisant motherlaw. For this you need no rejection and if you think you need it, just reject by refraining the discussion but not by distructing the movement. Remember everyone is wise until he/she speaks out!

Thanks for your time.

 

[Mr zam]

Ahsante mwanakijiji wacha tuupitie kwa makini

 

[Kobello]

kobello it's your freedom of expression and not that you need popularity.

It's my idea that you aren't and you shall not be popular for your contradictory and your paradox of thoughts, in contradistinction to other members. When people decide to respect you by shunning you, it means you must respect their decision as you seem incopatible and may be inciteful. Your complacement with current constitution shouldn't be pique like that. Unless you inscribe your clandestine in spuriously presented argument of yours, we shall be at hardiship to elicit your idea exactly. Think the situation you call yourself a Socialist while you reject socialist traits and mainly be as social philosophy and then the exact belief 'people's power' as you said politicians in opposition are no way substantial to you. What do you call upon us,we invaluable poor citizens if not be in renege as you promise to eliminate our poverty?

Gentleman, lets agree that our motherlaw needs to be overhauled to let the national cake be impartially enjoyed. Anyway,this step is bypassed,we already had been on same foot that we need a new motherlaw,and the next was how do we go about it and not, and even not whether you desire the outgoing constitution,or not.

In discussing the movement it doesn't matter your political party, here we route between parties to reach the puisant motherlaw. For this you need no rejection and if you think you need it, just reject by refraining the discussion but not by distructing the movement. Remember everyone is wise until he/she speaks out!

Thanks for your time.

This is a forum, online forum. I learned a lot from JF and any member can just ignore me, I don't really care, but I was just wondering why would anybody try to tell other people to ignore me? I am here to interact and exchange ideas. I have been in JF for almost two months now and people always tell me this is CDMs forum and I tell them NO! ...I've learned a lot here and still want to.

SO, it's ok to ignore me, but it's ok for me ask why ignore?.. and I will keep bringing my point of view even if is not ''popular"

 

[Chesty]

The bottom line ni kuwa wapinzani watajikuta wanafanya makosa mawili makubwa:

a. Wakiendelea kupinga mswada huu bila ya kuja na wa kwao wataonekana wanategemea huruma ya serikali. Kama ilivyodokezwa hapo juu wanao wabunge Bungeni, basi waje na mswada wao wa wanavyotaka mchakato wa Katiba uweje. Miswada hiyo miwili wa serikali na wapinzani itashindanishwa na ule mzuri upite. Hili litalazimisha process ya reconciliation ya miswada ili upatikane mzuri zaidi.

b. Wasipoleta mswada wao wenyewe tofauti na ule unaoletwa na serikali, na wakabakia kulalamika na kupiga kura ya "hapana" au kutoka Bungeni haitabadilisha hali halisi, CCM itauteka rasmi mkataba wa Katiba na CCM itaanza mchakato wa Katiba mpya. Sasa ukishapitishwa ulivyo una vipengele vya kuzuia kupinga process nzima. Maana yake wapinzani hawataweza kabisa kuupinga bila kusababisha machafuko nchini.

Well, hapa wanajikuta wanalazimika kufanya maamuzi magumu.

A. Wakiendelea kuupinga nje ya Bunge wataambiwa si mje Bungeni mlete hoja zenu?
b. Wakienda Bungeni na kushindwa - yaani mswada ukipita ulivyo - kama ulivyopita ule wa Gharama za Uchaguzi - watajikuta wako katika huruma ya serikali kwani hawatoweza kuupinga na kwa vile tayari wao wameshagawanyika nina uhakika wapo watakaotaka wakubaliane na serikali na wengine watasema wasikubaliane.
c. Uchaguzi ujao utafanyika kwa Katiba Mpya itakayotungwa na kupitishwa na Wana CCM!!!

Document ya sheria mbadala ipo na jana Kiwanga aliionesha pale chuo kikuu and it is going to be presented bungeni. Kwa hiyo si kweli kwamba hakuna alternative.

Na kilichokuwa kinazungumzwa jana Udsm ilikuwa ni makosa ya sheria hii ya muswada na alternatives zake.

 

[Kobello]

Document ya sheria mbadala ipo na jana Kiwanga aliionesha pale chuo kikuu and it is going to be presented bungeni. Kwa hiyo si kweli kwamba hakuna alternative.

Na kilichokuwa kinazungumzwa jana Udsm ilikuwa ni makosa ya sheria hii ya muswada na alternatives zake.

Pheew!!!....thank god!!..I'd loove to see that!

 

[Chesty]

Kwa mwendo huu wapinzani wamewekwa mtu kati! Bila ueledi na tafakuri jadidi wapinzani wataishia kuubariki muswada huu bila ya wao kupenda. Naona kama utapitishwa kuwa sheria, basi sheria itaanza rasmi June 2011, wapinzani wana muda kweli wa kuujadili huu muswada na kupata mawazo mujarabu ya kuwasilisha bungeni na bunge si ndio linaanza wiki ijayo. Kweli serikali wajanja wapinzani watakutwa pants down sijui watafanya nini kwa muda mfupi huu!!

I am sorry to say this, tulipotezwa kidogo na Loliondo, pengine tungeweza kujua mapema nini kinaendelea. Ile tunashtuka muswada unapelekwa bungeni. I had a sneaky feeling something was happening when we were busy with Loliondo saga.