Tz mbongo
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 12, 2015
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Huwa tunaomba uthibitisho ila tunajibiwa kuwa kisichokuwepo hakithibitishiki,ndio maana nakwambia unachofanya ni kuwaaminisha watu kuwa hakuna Mungu na wapo wengine huamini.
Huwa tunaomba uthibitisho ila tunajibiwa kuwa kisichokuwepo hakithibitishiki,ndio maana nakwambia unachofanya ni kuwaaminisha watu kuwa hakuna Mungu na wapo wengine huamini.Wapi naaminisha watu? Na inakuwaje mtu mmoja akamuaminisha mwingine?
Aanayeaminisha inakuwaje asisitize uchunguzi na uthibitisho badala ya imani?
Nasikiaga watu wanasema huwa wakilala wanaota ndoto..Mimi sjawahi kuota ndoto..kiranga ushawahi ? Kama umewahi kuota ndondo nidhibitishie.Thibitisha Mungu yupo.
Thibitisha roho ipo.
Thibitisha pepo ipo.
Nijue unasema kweli, na si uongo.
Eti kaona kwa sababu tunakunya baasi mungu hayupoNi uchunguzi gani uliyofanyika wa kwenda kumsaka Mungu na majibu yakawa hayupo? Maana huku kusema Mungu angekuwepo ingekuwa hivi sijui isingekuwa vile haiwezi kuwa fact.
Sasa wewe umetumia nini kusema hayupo?
Howking ni mtu nyuma ya mtu mwengine ambae ni mpotoshaji(illuminati)..wanatuaminisha Yale asemayo ni yake kumbe sio.Kuna siku nimekaa home pekee yangu nikaona ndege mmoja langi ya kijani ya kung'aa anatembea nilivyomwangalia vizuri kabisa nikaona amechorwa rangi na madoa kama wafanyavyo wachoraji wasanii yaani uchoraji wake ni kama mtu alimshika akaanza kumnakshi kwa kadri alivyotaka na akapendeza
Likaja swali kwamba yaani naturally tu ilitokea kiumbe kama huyo akazaliwa kwa kujichora tu hivyo bila kuwepo kitu cha kumchora,nikasema hapana lazima kuna ufundi fulani ulitumika
Sasa na huyu Hawking nae duuuh!!
Nimemuumba binadamu kutoka kutowepo hadi kuwepoOne needs to read Hawking fully to appreciate these matters fully, first of all, the written and spoken languages do not have the necessary vocabulary to capture the concepts of say, Quantum Physics, one need to delve into specialized math.
From reading Hawking over the years, I think what he is saying, based on mathematical model, models that are not unimpeachable, is.
If you want to define God as the creator of the Universe.
Then.
Nothing is God.
God is nothing.
Nothing created the universe.
"God" exists.As nothing.
God is nothing.
God does not exist.
God is nothing.
God exists as nothing and therefore does not exist.
Nothing is really not nothing due to quantum fluctuations, it is more like the positives and negatives balancing to zero, with potential to explode by spontaneous quantum fluctuations that are not very well understood.
In any case, the omnipotent, omniscient, omni benevolent God of the Bible and Quran is a fiction.
Hawking can be wrong, but the omnipotent omniscient and omnibenevolent does not need Hawking to be right to be disproved.
The problem of evil has done that thousand of years before Hawking was born.
Logical consistency.Ni uchunguzi gani uliyofanyika wa kwenda kumsaka Mungu na majibu yakawa hayupo? Maana huku kusema Mungu angekuwepo ingekuwa hivi sijui isingekuwa vile haiwezi kuwa fact.
Sasa wewe umetumia nini kusema hayupo?
Nimeuliza kuna uchunguzi uliyofanyika wa kumsaka Mungu na majibu yakawa hayupo? kinyume na hapo tutaendelea kubishana kwa kila mmoja kutetea msimamo wake.Logical consistency.
The same thing that makes your question demand an answer.
Without logical consistency, a question does not need an answer.
If you need an answer to your question, you uphold logical consistency.
You uphold the logic that disputes the existence of God.
Kama Mshana JrKujadiliana na mtu kama wewe sioni tabu kabisa.
Kwa sababu unaweza ku reason.
Kuna watu wana reason, hata kama hukubaliani nao, mnapingana kabisa, lakini mazungumzo yanawajenga wote mnabadilishana mawazo, mnapeana changamoto kuongeza wigo wa mawazo.
Watu kama wewe nikiwapata kujibizana nao nitaweza hata kuelewa mengi zaidi.
Lakini hawa wanaong;ang'ania "lazima nishinde mjadala nimuoneshe huyu Kiranga mimi ni zaidi yake" au "Mungu wangu ni mkuu w amajeshi hashindwi kitu, hata akishindwa, ushindi ndio unageuka kusinda" kujadiliana nao ni tabu sana.
Ukitaka kutopata hitimisho kwa jambo lolote, hata uwepo wako wewe mwenyewe kama ni kweli upo au si kweli, unaweza kutopata hitimisho.
Absolutely everything is built on some assumptions, mostly axiomatic.
So it is a matter of shifting the framework.Dig to the assumption.
Oh, so two parallel lines don't meet? Forever? Forever ever? Have you tried to test for forever ever?
So the question then becomes, how do you decide anything is true?
Aaaamen [emoji1545][emoji1545][emoji1545][emoji1545]Shida n kuwa tunataka kuthibitisha uwepo wa Mungu kama vile Mungu ni kitu.Stephen anasema, Laws of Nature, Laws of Science - If you like,you can say the laws are the work of God,but that is more a definition of God than a proof of his existence.Pia anasema- the only role for an all- powerful deity might be setting the initial conditions of the universe so that those laws could take shape. Naona Mungu ameziunda hizo laws of science na kuziweka chini yake hatuwezi kuthibitisha uwepo wake kwa kutumia hizo laws. Science nayo haijakamilika mpaka Leo kuna vitu vinagundulika na kuna nadharia zinathibitishwa kuwa wrong.Kwanza Stephen ana IMANI na science na proof zake ikiwamo the big bang theory halafu anataka athibitishiwe uwepo wa Mungu kwa kutumia nadharia anazoziamini yeye which is wrong , God the Creator is above what he created hivyo sisi wengine tunathibitisha uwepo wake kwa kutumia nadharia zingine nje ya science laws ambazo tuna IMANI nazo. Stephen anasema ....If you like, you can say the laws are the work of God sasa ubishi ukoje hapa kwani naye amefika mwisho.Ukishasema....the only role.....might be setting the initial conditions of the universe so that those laws could take shape,tunajiuliza tena what role is there for God?Tunadhani Mungu akiwa kazini kunatakiwa kuwe na perfection.Gödel showed us that you really cannot prove anything logically without assumptions. But why assumptions? Wenzetu wanaweza andika hayo mabuku ya kupinga uwepo wa Mungu kutafuta pesa na ujiko lkn moyoni wana mashaka.Atheist na Agnostic hawatakiwi kubishana kuwe na " modus vi- vendi" kwa kutumia imani au principles tofauti za kujenga hoja n dhahiri hakuna mshindi.Mmoja kasema sawa kabisa God exists but not in a comprehensible form. If God becomes comprehensible then he is not God... It is therefore logical to say that human mind has no ability to comprehend the existence of God rather we can only comprehend our own existence to a limited degree. Kuna binaadamu wana hasira na Mungu kutokana na changamoto wanazopitia wanadhani kama yupo alipaswa kuumba na kuuendesha ulimwengu wanavyodhani wao.Ulimwengu ulivyo ndio matakwa ya Mungu na kila kitu na jambo lina makusudi yake.
Ulishinda kwasababu ya uwezo,Sana tu mkuu, wiki mbili zilizopita milikuwa ninasibiri maamuzi is a ajira. Baada ya interview Sauti iliniambia hili swala linahitaji Salamu Maria 50. Nilianza kusali na baada ya siku mbili nilipata email ya hongera. Ni Mungu sana tu mkuu
Ngoja nikusaidie kuweka tena kitu ulichouliza hapa, kama umesahau.Nimeuliza kuna uchunguzi uliyofanyika wa kumsaka Mungu na majibu yakawa hayupo? kinyume na hapo tutaendelea kubishana kwa kila mmoja kutetea msimamo wake.
Ni uchunguzi gani uliyofanyika wa kwenda kumsaka Mungu na majibu yakawa hayupo? Maana huku kusema Mungu angekuwepo ingekuwa hivi sijui isingekuwa vile haiwezi kuwa fact.
Sasa wewe umetumia nini kusema hayupo?
Usomi mtupu.Huyu Mungu hatakiwi awe wa kutetewa na watu kuhusu uwepo wake. Ni jukumulake kujithibitisha kwamba yupo.
Nilishawahi kuandika hapakwamba hata wale tunaoiamini Biblia, kuna mtu anaitwa Tomaso, aliambiwa Yesu kafukuka, akasema haamini, hadi akaambiwa aende amshike Yesu kwenye makovu ya misumari, akajiridhisha, lakini bado hakuambiwa amekosea licha ya Yesu kusema heri watakaoamini bila kuona. Namaanisha kuna vitu lazima mtu ajihakikishie mwenyewe kama alivyofanya Thomao.
Wapili ni Gideon, na yeye aliambiwa akapigane, akaweka ngozi nje akasema endapo kutakua na umande ngozi isilowane basi atajua kweli Mungu atakua pamoja nae, alifanya kama majaribio mawili kupata ishara kwamba Mungu atakua pamoja nae huko vitani.
Narejea hapa Kiranga amewahi kusema huyo Mungu kama yupo na anaweza kufanya chochote aniondoe kesho nisiwepo, iwe kwa kufa au kwa chochote (sikumbuki vizuri lakini ilikua kitu cha aina hiyo). Sasa kama muhusika mwenyewe amepewa ajidhihirishe kwa mtu anaetaka kuona uwepo wake hajafanya hivyo, kubishana na mtu asiyeamini uwepo wake kwa maneno matupu ni kazi ya ziada ambayo kimsingi nafikiria hakuna mtu anaiweza.
Ndio maana kila mara nasema, ukilenda kisayansi/logic havikai chungu kimoja na imani (Nashukuru pia Kiranga hana shida kabisa na Imani wala wanaoamini Mungu yupo ila pale unapotaka kuthitisha kwamba yupo kwa logic ndio tatizolinaanza hapo).
Na kwa faida ya wale wanaoamini uwepo wa Mungu, kama hauwezi kuelezea uwepo wa Mungu, jaribu kupitia tena juu ya kile unachokiamini. Hii kwa upande mwingine itasaidia kujenga kujifunza na kufuatilia juu ya unachokiamini.