The Zanzibar political paradox: Mapinduzi sasa yamekosa mashiko?

The Zanzibar political paradox: Mapinduzi sasa yamekosa mashiko?

WILE said:
Una maswali mengi lakini nimekwambia ukweli mtupu kwasasa CCM hawana mpango wa kupoteza madaraka Zanzibar. CCM siyo wajinga kama mnavyodhani.
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Sasa kubaka demokrasia ni werevu?

Unataka wapoteze madaraka mara ngapi?

CCM wanajenga na kuzikuza hasira za raia na siku wakiweka upoyoyo pembeni ........
 
DANNFORD said:
Samahani naomba kuuliza, hivi serikari ilitoa kauli gani baada ya yule mama kuongea waziwazi bungeni kwamba " Zanzibar ni nchi ya kimapinduzi na serikari haiwezi kutolewa kwa vijikaratasi vya kura" kama serikari haikutoa tamko au kauli yoyote kuhusiana ma matamshi ya yule mama basi haina haja ya maalimu Seif kuendelea na vikao wakati msimamo wa serikari na ccm unajurikana wazi kuwa Zanzibar ni ya ccm na kamwe CUF hawapa pata kitu!
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Serikali kupitia Lukuvi ilisema itaendelea kuvingang'ania na kuvizibiti visiwa vile ili wasije wakaanzisha serikali ya kiislamu. Na Magu amesema atalinda Muungano na kuyaenzi Mapinduzi siku alipohutubia ufunguzi wa bunge.
 
Nonda said:
Sasa kubaka demokrasia ni werevu?

Unataka wapoteze madaraka mara ngapi?

CCM wanajenga na kuzikuza hasira za raia na siku wakiweka upoyoyo pembeni ........
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Ukitaka kujua jinsi CCM wanavyojua siasa jaribu kuangalia kwa jicho la tatu jinsi wanavyoshughulikia hilo suala la Zanzibar kwasasa. Utagundua hawakurupuki kama wapinzani wanavyodhani hizi steps zipo well planned na zitakuwa executed vizuri tu. Miezi michache ijayo utakuwa unalalamika wakati CCM inatawala bila vurugu.
 
WILE said:
Ukitaka kujua jinsi CCM wanavyojua siasa jaribu kuangalia kwa jicho la tatu jinsi wanavyoshughulikia hilo suala la Zanzibar kwasasa. Utagundua hawakurupuki kama wapinzani wanavyodhani hizi steps zipo well planned na zitakuwa executed vizuri tu. Miezi michache ijayo utakuwa unalalamika wakati CCM inatawala bila vurugu.
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CCM wanatamani wananchi wa Zanzibar wafanye vurugu ili hizo steps ziwe executed vizuri lakini wananchi wameamua kuiweka CCM njia panda. Ni CCM ndio wanaopata tumbo joto kwa sasa. Wanaelewa kuwa wameshindwa uchaguzi na mchakato wao wa Mazungumzo juu ya uhuni walioufanya unajulikana kuwa ni usanii tu.

Shein amesema yeye ni Raisi "halali" na anayepinga aende mahakamani. "halali" ni neno sahihi kutumika huku akijua kuwa alikataliwa na wapiga kura kuiongoza Zanzibar?

Matokeo ya kura za uraisi yalibadikwa vituoni katika majombo na kura nyingi zilimkataa Shein na CCM yake.

Je CCM wataendelea kuikanyaga katiba na kutawala kimabavu?
Mimi nikilalamika baada ya miezi 3 , je wewe utafurahia hili wanalofanya CCM?
Vipi utafurahia ubakaji wa demokrasia?
 
Nonda said:
Endelea kujidanganya na kuudanganya umma.

Kama Zanzibar ingeangukia mikononi mwa makomunisti ingekuwa tofauti gani na Tanzania(Tanganyika) chini ya siasa ya ujamaa na kugawiana umaskini?

Moyo ni mbara? Je Mzee Moyo haijui historia ya Zanzibar?

Kama ni mbara na anaijua historia ya Zanzibar anasemaje kuhusu siasa za Zanzibar na migogoro hii ya ubakaji wa demokrasia unaofanywa na ccm?
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Usijimisdirect katika kitu ambacho kiko wazi!
Unamfahamu Abdulrahman Babu?
Unaifahamu Umma Party?
Hebu jidhihirishe na hilo kwanza kabla ya kuendelea

Lakini kukuchallenge hebu soma hii abstract ya Speller, Ian (2007) An African Cuba? Britain and the Zanzibar Revolution, 1964. Journal of Imperial and Commonwealth History, 35 (2). pp. 1-35.

"Abstract
This article examines the response of the British government to the revolution in Zanzibar in January 1964. It demonstrates that, once the safety of British nationals had been assured, British concerns upon the possibility that the new regime in Zanzibar might become susceptible to communist influence. These fears appeared to be realised as soon as British influence in Zanzibar diminished and the new government welcomed communist aid and advisers. In the aftermath of successful military interventions in support of moderate regimes in Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika, and under pressure from Washington to take decisive action, the british prepared a series of plans for military action in Zanzibar. None of these were enacted and the final plan was scrapped in December. The paper examines the range of factors that undermined British diplomacy and inhibited the government from taking military action in Zanzibar. In doing so it illustrates the complexity of Britain's relationship with post-colonial regimes in East Africa and the difficulties that it faced when trying to exert influence in a region recognised by both London and Washington as a British sphere of influence."
 
WILE said:
Una maswali mengi lakini nimekwambia ukweli mtupu kwasasa CCM hawana mpango wa kupoteza madaraka Zanzibar. CCM siyo wajinga kama mnavyodhani.
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Ccm hawana mpango wa kupoteza madaraka na wananchi hawana mpango wa kuwabakisha ccm madarakani, uchaguzi uliopita ndio ushahidi tosha wa hilo.
 
masopakyindi said:
Usijimisdirect katika kitu ambacho kiko wazi!
Unamfahamu Abdulrahman Babu?
Unaifahamu Umma Party?
Hebu jidhihirishe na hilo kwanza kabla ya kuendelea

Lakini kukuchallenge hebu soma hii abstract ya Speller, Ian (2007) An African Cuba? Britain and the Zanzibar Revolution, 1964. Journal of Imperial and Commonwealth History, 35 (2). pp. 1-35.

"Abstract
This article examines the response of the British government to the revolution in Zanzibar in January 1964. It demonstrates that, once the safety of British nationals had been assured, British concerns upon the possibility that the new regime in Zanzibar might become susceptible to communist influence. These fears appeared to be realised as soon as British influence in Zanzibar diminished and the new government welcomed communist aid and advisers. In the aftermath of successful military interventions in support of moderate regimes in Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika, and under pressure from Washington to take decisive action, the british prepared a series of plans for military action in Zanzibar. None of these were enacted and the final plan was scrapped in December. The paper examines the range of factors that undermined British diplomacy and inhibited the government from taking military action in Zanzibar. In doing so it illustrates the complexity of Britain's relationship with post-colonial regimes in East Africa and the difficulties that it faced when trying to exert influence in a region recognised by both London and Washington as a British sphere of influence."
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Nimekuuliza Tanganyika ingepata athari gani kwa Zanzibar kuwa katika mikono ya wakomunisti?
Azimio la Arusha na kugawana umaskini lilianzishwa na wakomunisti wa Zanzibar?

Wewe unaelewa kuwa nchi za Afrika Mashariki zilikuwa katika mazungumzo ya kuanzisha Shirikisho la Afrika Mashariki na Kenyatta alipoona kiswahili mrefu ya Nyerere alikataa na hapo ndio Mapinduzi yalifanyika huko Zanzibar na Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar kuzaliwa katika mazingira ya kutatanisha?

Ilikuwaje Nyerere amkumbatie mkomunisti Babu na Salim kama hawa ni watu hatari?
 
masopakyindi said:
Hali ya kisiasa Zanzibar kwa miaka mingi sasa ni ya mivutano isiyoisha.
Mivutano hii ni ya kihistoria na pengine naweza kusema hata mapinduzi ya mwaka 1964 ni sehemu tu ya mivutano hiyo.
Zanzibar ni Nchi ati.
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Pa Kyindi.....
Huenda tunasahau kwamba mapinduzi ya 1964 yalipofanyika kulikuwepo support kubwa tu kutoka kwa majority ya Wazanzibari, waliotambua kuwa wamekombolewa, pasipo kujali itikadi, wala makundi. Kama ni hivyo la kujiuliza ni wapi /lini palipofanyika makosa hadi kutokea huu Mpasuko ? (kama alivyosema Bwana Jakaya...2005)
 
Nonda said:
Nimekuuliza Tanganyika ingepata athari gani kwa Zanzibar kuwa katika mikono ya wakomunisti?
Azimio la Arusha na kugawana umaskini lilianzishwa na wakomunisti wa Zanzibar?

Wewe unaelewa kuwa nchi za Afrika Mashariki zilikuwa katika mazungumzo ya kuanzisha Shirikisho la Afrika Mashariki na Kenyatta alipoona kiswahili mrefu ya Nyerere alikataa na hapo ndio Mapinduzi yalifanyika huko Zanzibar na Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar kuzaliwa katika mazingira ya kutatanisha?

Ilikuwaje Nyerere amkumbatie mkomunisti Babu na Salim kama hawa ni watu hatari?
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Ndo tatizo lenu watu wa huko badalaya kujibu swali unalikwepa kwa kuingiza mchanga katika mada.
Swali nililolkuuliza liko pale pale na hujalijibu.
 
Nonda said:
CCM wanatamani wananchi wa Zanzibar wafanye vurugu ili hizo steps ziwe executed vizuri lakini wananchi wameamua kuiweka CCM njia panda. Ni CCM ndio wanaopata tumbo joto kwa sasa. Wanaelewa kuwa wameshindwa uchaguzi na mchakato wao wa Mazungumzo juu ya uhuni walioufanya unajulikana kuwa ni usanii tu.

Shein amesema yeye ni Raisi "halali" na anayepinga aende mahakamani. "halali" ni neno sahihi kutumika huku akijua kuwa alikataliwa na wapiga kura kuiongoza Zanzibar?

Matokeo ya kura za uraisi yalibadikwa vituoni katika majombo na kura nyingi zilimkataa Shein na CCM yake.

Je CCM wataendelea kuikanyaga katiba na kutawala kimabavu?
Mimi nikilalamika baada ya miezi 3 , je wewe utafurahia hili wanalofanya CCM?
Vipi utafurahia ubakaji wa demokrasia?
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Wasimamia uchaguzi ZEC wameshasema palikuwa na kasoro kwa hiyo sioni hata haja ya kujadili matokeo yaliofutwa.
 
Bobwe2 said:
Ccm hawana mpango wa kupoteza madaraka na wananchi hawana mpango wa kuwabakisha ccm madarakani, uchaguzi uliopita ndio ushahidi tosha wa hilo.
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Uchaguzi upi? Uliofutwa na ZEC. Kama ni huo basi naamin unafahamu ulikuwa na kasoro na that its official.
 
MBATATA said:
Pa Kyindi.....
Huenda tunasahau kwamba mapinduzi ya 1964 yalipofanyika kulikuwepo support kubwa tu kutoka kwa majority ya Wazanzibari, waliotambua kuwa wamekombolewa, pasipo kujali itikadi, wala makundi. Kama ni hivyo la kujiuliza ni wapi /lini palipofanyika makosa hadi kutokea huu Mpasuko ? (kama alivyosema Bwana Jakaya...2005)
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Mkuu observation yako SI KWELI!
Hasa katika red!

Mapinduzi yalikuwa dhidi ya ukoloni mkongwe wa kiarabu kwa waafrika walio wengi.
That's the fact,
Nanukuu tena , Speller, Ian(2007) pg 1;

"On 10 December 1963 the Sultanate of Zanzibar achieved independence from British
rule. One month later, on 12 January 1964, the elected government was overthrown
and the Sultan deposed in a violent revolution. This act reversed two hundred years of
Arab dominance of the political and economic life of Zanzibar and ensured that,
contrary to British policy during colonial rule, the islands would be primarily African
in nature rather than Arab. The revolution replaced a conservative Arab-dominated
regime with one that espoused the principles of African nationalism and radical
socialism and that developed close ties with communist bloc countries"

 
masopakyindi said:
Mkuu observation yako SI KWELI!
Hasa katika red!

Mapinduzi yalikuwa dhidi ya ukoloni mkongwe wa kiarabu kwa waafrika walio wengi.
That's the fact,
Nanukuu tena , Speller, Ian(2007) pg 1;

"On 10 December 1963 the Sultanate of Zanzibar achieved independence from British
rule. One month later, on 12 January 1964, the elected government was overthrown
and the Sultan deposed in a violent revolution. This act reversed two hundred years of
Arab dominance of the political and economic life of Zanzibar and ensured that,
contrary to British policy during colonial rule, the islands would be primarily African
in nature rather than Arab. "The revolution replaced a conservative Arab-dominated
regime with one that espoused the principles of African nationalism" and radical
socialism and that developed close ties with communist bloc countries"
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Mkuu
Tuwe wakweli. Hivi kwa ratio, population ya Waarab vs Waafrika weusi kama wewe na mimi hapo Zanzibar ikoje?
Na huyu Speller anaweka wazi kwamba kundi liliokuwa pro Arab ndilo lililoondolewa (angalia bolded quote). Iweje tuseme leo kuwa Mapinduzi hayakuwa popular wakati ule? Point yangu ni kwamba kuna mahali/wakati Wazanzibari walipoenda visivyo na kujikuta wakitofautiana. Waulizwe ni wapi?
 
MBATATA said:
Mkuu
Tuwe wakweli. Hivi kwa ratio, population ya Waarab vs Waafrika weusi kama wewe na mimi hapo Zanzibar ikoje?
Na huyu Speller anaweka wazi kwamba kundi liliokuwa pro Arab ndilo lililoondolewa (angalia bolded quote). Iweje tuseme leo kuwa Mapinduzi hayakuwa popular wakati ule? Point yangu ni kwamba kuna mahali/wakati Wazanzibari walipoenda visivyo na kujikuta wakitofautiana. Waulizwe ni wapi?
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Hebu fuatilia kwa makini argument.
Hapo tatizo sio kwamba mapinduzi hayakuwa popular, ila majority ya waliopindua walikuwa waafrika.
 
Jidu La Mabambasi said:
Hebu fuatilia kwa makini argument.
Hapo tatizo sio kwamba mapinduzi hayakuwa popular, ila majority ya waliopindua walikuwa waafrika.
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Tahadhari! Tusijenge dhana kwamba Wazanzibari ni watu wasioelewa kuwa mustakabali wa taifa au jamii hutegemea sana muafaka wa kijamii...social consensus! Wanajua fika kuhusu hilo na kama ilivyosemwa hata muungano ulisaidia kwa kisai fulani kuondoa tofauti miongoni mwao. My point: kama waliweza kukubaliana na mapinduzi, kilichopeelekea wakaendekeza tofauti miak yote hii ni nini? UJINGA WAO?
 
Usijifanye hujui,ni pale kwa wana mapinduzi wengine kutaka kuipeleka zanzibar tanganyika na wengine kutaka zanzibar ijitawale wenyewe.
 
MBATATA said:
Tahadhari! Tusijenge dhana kwamba Wazanzibari ni watu wasioelewa kuwa mustakabali wa taifa au jamii hutegemea sana muafaka wa kijamii...social consensus! Wanajua fika kuhusu hilo na kama ilivyosemwa hata muungano ulisaidia kwa kisai fulani kuondoa tofauti miongoni mwao. My point: kama waliweza kukubaliana na mapinduzi, kilichopeelekea wakaendekeza tofauti miak yote hii ni nini? UJINGA WAO?
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Mkuu pengine sikuelewi vizuri.
Mapinduzi ni pamoja na watu kundolewa katika madaraka kwa nguvu.
Na watu waliuliwa,
Ssa hapo kuna maelewano gani?
Hebu nijuze!
 
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