Mohamed Said
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Wala mimi na wewe si lazima tufanye mjadala katika hili.
Wala sina haja ya kukuletea PM.
Wahusika tumewaeleza na tunaamini wametusikia.
Tuishie hapa.
Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar
Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar
- Thread starter Yericko Nyerere
- Start date
Wala mimi na wewe si lazima tufanye mjadala katika hili.
Wala sina haja ya kukuletea PM.
Wahusika tumewaeleza na tunaamini wametusikia.
Tuishie hapa.
MasaiSupai
Senior Member
- Jan 18, 2013
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Karibuni Upagani ili mpunsishe akili senu na kuchana na chuki.
Kiranga
Platinum Member
- Jan 29, 2009
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Kuna Askofu mmoja wa Nigeria, alikuwa anahojiwa na BBC kuhusu machafuko ya Waislamu vs Wakristo.
Akasema kitu profound sana, hasa ukizingatia yeye Askofu.
Alisema Nigeria tumekuwa wapagani kwa miaka mingi sana, tukiabudu miungu ya sili, bila kuuana.
Sasa "tumestaarabika" tumetoka kwenye upagani, tumepata Uislamu na Ukristo, ndo tunauana kama kuku.
Sasa hapa upagani ni upi?
The same can be said about Tanzania.
Mohamed Said
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Nyerere aliupiga vita Uislam.
Huenda wewe hujui.
Msikilize Abdu Sykes huyu hapa chini:
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[TD] These new developments saddened Abdulwahid as he could not understand where such sentiments could originate from.
Somehow Abdulwahid felt guilty and responsible for what was taking place and for the calamity which was befalling the Muslim community.
This feeling now haunted him.
Abdulwahid thought that they had conquered such sentiments in the 1950s.
He had in 1953, as incumbent and secretary of Al Jamiatul Islamiyya, stood against Julius Nyerere, a Roman Catholic, to contest for the presidency of the TAA. Abdulwahid lost that election.
Muslims did not take that election as between a Muslim leader and a Christian. What mattered was the ability of the contestants.
Nyerere turned out to be a better candidate than he.
He remembered the 1958 conflict between Sheikh Suleiman Takadir then TANU Elders Council Chairman and Nyerere. Sheikh Takadir had warned that Nyerere would come to turn against Muslims and to favour fellow Christians once power was squarely in his hands.
Like many other Muslims, Abdulwahid had sided with Nyerere. He believed then, as many like him did, that Takadir wanted to spread divisive hate politics based on religion which could have dire consequences for the people of Tanganyika.
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[TD="width: 601"] Abdulwahid died in 1968 at a time when the country was torn in silent strife; there was tension between Muslims and the Christian dominated government in power.
The unity of the country, something which Abdulwahid had fought for throughout his life, was being threatened.
The unity of Muslims was on the brink of disintegration.
There had been mass detention of Sheikhs under the Preventive Detention Act of 1962.
Some of these Sheikhs were Abdulwahids political allies when he was trying to set up TANU.
Some of them supported Nyerere in those difficult early days of the struggle.
Abdulwahids fellow member of the TAA political subcommittee, Mufti Sheikh Hassan bin Amir, who was held in high esteem by all Muslims, had been arrested on Nyereres orders and deported to Zanzibar, his country of origin; the reason given for his deportation was that Sheikh Hassan bin Amir was plotting to overthrow the government.
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[TD="width: 601"] Sheikh Hassan bin Amir was among the few Muslim scholars who dared to stand against the government and to give his opinion on the governments negative stand on Islam.
Before his death reports had been reaching him that there was a systematic campaign within TANU, conducted by its new Christian leadership, to de-Islamise the party.
In the 1965 General Elections, TANU founder member Tewa Said Tewa lost his Kisarawe constituency to an unknown contestant, one H.A. Ramadhani Dollah.
Bibi Titi Mohamed, the only woman who built TANU and campaigned for Nyerere single-handedly, also lost her Rufiji seat to one A.M. Mtanga.
There were unconfirmed rumours of ballot rigging and a conspiracy against Tewa and Titi and certain names within the Party top leadership, including that of Nyerere were mentioned.
The two were respectively, president and vice-president of the EAMWS. [1]
this day Tewa claims that he did not lose the election. Election results were delayed for no apparent reason and were announced two days late.
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[TD="width: 601"] Abdulwahid knew the consequences of this Muslim division.
He had witnessed the power of Muslim unity during the struggle for independence.
Abdulwahid also knew the force, fear and people behind the unholy alliance.
He knew about the conspiracy and the personalities working behind the scenes against Muslim unity.
Abdulwahids former allies had come to fear that, after independence, Islam which had been the ideology of resistance against colonialism was becoming a threat to the future of Christianity in free Tanzania.
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[TD="width: 601"] Before he passed away Abdulwahid was to have an audience with Nyerere. This encounter between Abdulwahid and Nyerere took place in the last months of 1968 amid the arrests and detention of sheikhs and prominent Muslims.
The two were old friends. Probably if it were not for Abdulwahids support of Nyerere the history of TANU and that of Nyerere would have taken a different course.
This meeting was important to Abdulwahid because he somehow felt responsible for what was befalling Muslims, particularly those in Dar es Salaam.
Reports of Muslims being picked up at night and sent away to be detained were reaching him almost every day.
Abdulwahid could not pretend that he was not affected by those arrests. Some of those put under custody were people he had known since childhood and personally mobilised in 1950s in initiating his political career and building Nyereres own power base in TANU.
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[TD="width: 601"] Abdulwahid told Nyerere that he may have no connection with his victims when he signs detention orders.
Those were people who Abdulwahid met either at the mosque or in the streets.
He, as a person living among Muslims and the family of those victims, felt their anguish and grief.
Abdulwahid told Nyerere that those people knew of his (Abdulwahids) role in Nyereres rise to power.
They came to him begging him to intercede with Nyerere on their behalf.
Abdulwahid told Nyerere that the detentions were wrong because those people did not have power to overthrow his government.
In a sad tone Abdulwahid ended his address by telling Nyerere, As I walk out of this room I want to believe that, you, Julius Nyerere, have not now turned against us. With those words Abdulwahid made his exit. [/TD]
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[1]After a silence of almost thirty years Titi Mohamed revealed that it was Nyerere
who was behind her downfall, the reason being that she had opposed him in the
TANU-NEC when he was seeking a mandate from Muslims in the TANU leadership
to ban the EAMWS. See article in Rai of 29 th December, 1994.
Mohamed Said
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Mag3,
Unajua mie na wewe tunaweza tukanogesha sana mjadala shida
ni kuwa wewe hunisingizia mambo ambayo laiti yangetoka kinywani
kwangu ingekuwa nimetukana.
Hayo sitayasemea naamini katika muda huu nilikuwa humu ukumbini
wasikilizaji weshatutambua sote.
Umesema mengi tunajirudia humo kwa humo.
Hakika tumechoka.
AMNUT ilikataliwa na Waislam:
But the most devastating blow came from the ulamaa (Muslim scholars) in Tanga. Sheikhs and Qur'an teachers in Tanga signed a joint declaration opposing AMNUT.
The declaration stated that AMNUT would create danger. The ulamaa reiterated that they would support TANU until independence was achieved because they had confidence with the objectives of the Party. [1]
With such a bombardment from the class which AMNUT claimed to be representing their interest, the party could not endure, and it soon died a natural death.
In 1960, Plantan, now out of AMNUT and politics, made one statement which marked his departure from politics and lowered the stage curtain for him.
Plantan told Muslims that even for a hundred years they would not be able to catch up with Christians.
After this statement nothing was to be heard of him. He lived the last years of his life in Gerezani, spending his time between his house and the nearby mosque which he used to sweep to keep it clean.
Kitu muhimu cha kujiuliza ni kuwa Waislam wa leo wanaweza kukutaa udini kama walivyokataa wazee wao?
Ikiwa jibu ni hapana nini sababu yake na ikiwa jibu ndiyo nini pia sababu yake?
[1] Mwafrika, 3 rd October, 1959.
Mohamed Said
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Mag3,
Unajua mie na wewe tunaweza tukanogesha sana mjadala shida
ni kuwa wewe hunisingizia mambo ambayo laiti yangetoka kinywani
kwangu ingekuwa nimetukana.
Hayo sitayasemea naamini katika muda huu nilikuwa humu ukumbini
wasikilizaji weshatutambua sote.
Umesema mengi tunajirudia humo kwa humo.
Hakika tumechoka.
AMNUT ilikataliwa na Waislam:
But the most devastating blow came from the ulamaa (Muslim scholars) in Tanga. Sheikhs and Qur'an teachers in Tanga signed a joint declaration opposing AMNUT.
The declaration stated that AMNUT would create danger. The ulamaa reiterated that they would support TANU until independence was achieved because they had confidence with the objectives of the Party. [1]
With such a bombardment from the class which AMNUT claimed to be representing their interest, the party could not endure, and it soon died a natural death.
In 1960, Plantan, now out of AMNUT and politics, made one statement which marked his departure from politics and lowered the stage curtain for him.
Plantan told Muslims that even for a hundred years they would not be able to catch up with Christians.
After this statement nothing was to be heard of him. He lived the last years of his life in Gerezani, spending his time between his house and the nearby mosque which he used to sweep to keep it clean.
Kitu muhimu cha kujiuliza ni kuwa Waislam wa leo wanaweza kukutaa udini kama walivyokataa wazee wao?
Ikiwa jibu ni hapana nini sababu yake na ikiwa jibu ndiyo nini pia sababu yake?
[1] Mwafrika, 3 rd October, 1959.
Mohamed,
Hujatuambia hapa Nyerere alimjibu nini Abdulwahid. Haiingii akilini Abdulwahid anazungumza peke yake mbele ya Nyerere na Nyerere kuwa bubu. Kuhusu bibi Titi, alikiri mwenyewe kuwa alimpinga ndani ya NEC. Actually yeye pamoja na Tewa Saidi Tewa walianzisha harakati za kukusanya fedha za EAMWS kwa madhumuni ya kumwondoa Nyerere kwenye uongozi wa TANU. Bibi Titi acknowledges such. So in such a situation ulidhani Nyerere atamchukua Bibi Titi for a waltz dance?
Hutuambii hapa njama zilizokuwa zinafanywa na hao viongozi wa Kiislamu dhidi ya Nyerere. I can see Abdulwahid's concern for his friends and neighbours, but this does not translate to being kuupiga vita Uislamu.
Mohamed Said
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Jasusi,
Hii ndiyo raha ya ''freedom of speech.''
Zamani tulisikia hiyo ya Nyerere kufanyiwa fitna na Titi na Tewa kupitia EAMWS
hata ikabidi EAMWS Nyerere aipige marufuku.
Leo Alhamduliliah nami naieleza dunia upande mwingine wa jambo lilivyokuwa.
Ni juu ya ulimwengu kuchuja na kufanya uamuzi wake.
Sivalon na yeye ana yake ya kusema baada ya Nyerere na Titi kusema:
Dr John C. Sivalon, who in his expose, Kanisa Katoliki na Siasa ya Tanzania Bara 1953 Hadi 1985, [1] unmasks a conspiracy in the government to subvert Islam.
Sivalon revealed that the Catholic Church as far back as 1961 was worried by two prospects.
First, was the unity between the Muslim madhheb (sect) of Sunni, Bohora, Ismailia and Ithnasheri in Tanganyika; and the second, was the transfer of the headquarters of the East African Muslim Welfare Society (EAMWS) from Mombasa to Dar es Salaam.
The Church was worried that the resources in the hands of rich Asian Muslim community in East Africa, coupled with the political power of African Muslims, particularly in Tanganyika, would endanger Christian interests in East Africa.
The Church therefore declared Islam as its enemy in the country and plotted to thwart its progress.[2]
[1] John C. Sivalon, Kanisa Katoliki na Siasa ya Tanzania Bara 1953 Hadi 1985, (Ndanda, 1992).
[2]Ibid. p 37.
Mzee Mwanakijiji
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To tell you the truth angeweza. Nyerere hakuwahitaji wazee wa Dar kuanzisha vuguvugu la kudai uhuru. Wazee wa Dar walimhitaji Nyerere kuliko Nyerere alivyowahitaji wao. Ikumbukwe kuwa alikuwa tayari ameshaazimia kuingia kwenye siasa miaka karibu kumi nyuma. Tayari katika kufikia lengo hilo alishaamua kuanzisha chama cha siasa ili kudai uhuru - hii ilikuwa kabla ya kukutana na wazee wa Dar.
Kuingia kwake TAA kulikuja as a matter of convenience. Katika hotuba yake ile ya 1985 anasema hivi yeye mwenyewe:
Pale, mimi na wanafunzi wenzangu tulikuwa tumeanzisha chama kinachoitwa Tanganyika African Welfare Association (TAWA) cha wanafunzi wa Tanganyika; mimi nikiwa katibu wao. Hapa tukaona mambo yanakwenda vizuri kidogo.
Tukaona kwanini TAWA iwe ya wanafunzi peke yao na siyo Tanganyika nzima. Kwa hiyo nikawaandikia baadhi ya watu Tanganyika. Nikasema, jamani ee, tumeanzisha chama, kwanini msianzishe huko matawi ya chama hicho?
Hivyo unaweza kuona kwanza kabisa kuwa kuanzisha TAWA kule Makerere hakufanya kwa msaada wa Sykes, Sheikh Amir au mzee yeyote wa Dar. Katika kuanzisha chama hicho Makerere tunaweza kuona sifa kadhaa za Nyerere. Alikuwa ni strategist, organizer, highly political and an incredible visionary. Lakini hilo peke yake halitoshi anaelezea na kusema:
Ndugu Mwangosi akapata barua hiyo. Alikuwa miongoni mwa waliopata barua hiyo. Akaniandikia – nikiwa Makerere – akasema: wewe kwanini unataka kuanzisha chama kipya? Kipo chama. Kipo chama cha TAA (Tanganyika African Association).
Kwa hiyo la maana siyo kuanzisha matawi, maana chama kipo na matawi yameenea; la maana ni kwamba hicho chama chenu mfute, na muanzishe tawi la Tanganyika African Association.
Kwa mara nyingine tunaona kuwa Nyerere alikuwa tayari kuingia katika harakati za kuanzisha vuguvugu la uhuru kupitia chama cha TAWA - sijui kama angeendelea na hilo na kupata majibu kwa watu wengine alioawaandikia barua Tanganyika mwelekeo wa siasa ungekuwaje. Ni rahisi kuliona hili hasa baada ya Nyerere kujiunga TAA na TANU na harakati zake kuipeleka TANU kwa wananchi. Nina uhakika wa kutosha tu kwa kuangalia historia Nyerere asingepata shida kupata watu mikoani kupitia TAWA! Watu wa Dar wasingeweza kwenda bara na hawakuweza kwenda bara miaka yote lakini Nyerere aliweza na ndio maana watu wa bara walimpokea kwa mikono yote.
Inawezekana tukiangalia nyuma na hasa haya yanayofuatia sasa hivi kutoka na histohisia yake LABDA lilikuwa kosa kubwa la Nyerere kukubali kuvunja chama alichoanzisha na kujiunga na watu wa Dar ambao baadaye watoto wao wamekuja kumgeuka na kumchoma mikuki kila kona! Angeendelea na chama chake cha TAWA na kukaribisha watu wengine TAA labda nayo isingefika mbali sana.
Kwa hiyo, Nyerere angeweza kabisa kufanikiwa kisiasa bila wazee wako au wazee wengine wa Dar; lakini ni wazi kuwa kwa vile hakuwa anajifikiria yeye na kupata umaarufu yeye peke yake aliamua kukubali kufuta chama chake na kujiunga na TAA na kuendelea na mpango wake wa kuliongoza taifa kuelekea uhuru akishirikiana na wengine wote ambao walikuwa tayari kusimama nyuma yake yeye akiwa kiongozi wao - shujaa kati ya mashujaa. Na ndio maana anaitwa kwa haki kabisa BABA WA TAIFA MWALIMU JULIUS KAMBARAGE NYERERE!
A leader of extraordinary caliber of whose stature no else has ever attempted to match..
Mohamed Said
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Jasusi,
Nyerere ajibu nini wakati kalamu zishanyanyuliwa na karatasi
zishakunjwa na kufutikwa?
Msikilize Sivalon anasema nini:
(The Church was worried) first, was the unity between the Muslim madhheb (sect) of Sunni, Bohora, Ismailia and Ithnasheri in Tanganyika; and the second, was the transfer of the headquarters of the East African Muslim Welfare Society (EAMWS) from Mombasa to Dar es Salaam.
The Church was worried that the resources in the hands of rich Asian Muslim community in East Africa, coupled with the political power of African Muslims, particularly in Tanganyika, would endanger Christian interests in East Africa.
The Church therefore declared Islam as its enemy in the country and plotted to thwart its progress.[2]
[1] John C. Sivalon, Kanisa Katoliki na Siasa ya Tanzania Bara 1953 Hadi 1985, (Ndanda, 1992).
[2]Ibid. p 37.
Salama ya Kanisa ilikuwa katika kuivunja EAMWS. Nyerere alikuwa anajua nini anafanya na Kanisa likijua pia.
Mohamed Said
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MM,
Ndiyo uzuri wa hapa tulipofika.
Angalau wazee wangu wanatajwa kuwa TANU ingeweza kuundwa bila
ya kuwepo Sheikh Hassan bin Amir.
Kuwa hakuwa kiungo muhimu mchuzi ungenoga tu hata kama yeye
angekosekana.
Hili ni jambo la faraja sana kwangu.
Kabla ya sasa hawa wazee wangu ilikuwa mwiko kutajwa.
Mag3
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Jasusi, mimi nilianza kutilia mashaka maneno wanayowekewa mdomoni hawa wazee wa Mohamed Saidi zamani sana, ndiyo maana nikawa najiuliza kulikoni? Wengine tunakumbuka sana Bibi Titi Mohamed alivyokiri kwa mdomo wake kuwa alishiriki katika kukusanya fedha za EAMWS kwa lengo la kumwondoa Nyerere madarakani. Lakini ndugu yetu Mohamed Said haelezei hasa kilichotokea, kwake yeye EAMWS ilipigwa marufuku kwa kuwa kilikuwa na nia ya kuwaendeleza Waislaam kwa kujenga Chuo Kikuu cha Kiislaam! Na kuna watu wanaamini ngano hiyo! Hutuambii hapa njama zilizokuwa zinafanywa na hao viongozi wa Kiislamu dhidi ya Nyerere. I can see Abdulwahid's concern for his friends and neighbours, but this does not translate to being kuupiga vita Uislamu. Mathalani hebu tujiulize...tuseme kwa mfano serikali ipate habari kuwa kuna kikundi cha watu kinachangisha fedha kwa lengo la kumwondoa Kikwete madarakani, serikali itafanya nini?
Hapa pia maswali kadhaa yanajitokeza, je Abdulwahid Sykes, wakati anamwendea Nyerere hakuwahi kuzisikia hizo habari? Na hata kama alizisikia kama tetesi tu zisizo na kweli, alifanya juhudi gani kuzithibitisha kabla ya kumkabili Nyerere? Je Mwalimu aliamka tu ghafla bin vuu akaagiza watu hao wakamatwe? peke yake? Bila hata ushauri wa Makamu Raisi wa kwanza? Bila ushauri wa Makamu wa pili wa Raisi? Kumbuka hawa wote walikuwa ni viongozi Waislaam, Abeid Karume na Rashidi Kawawa! Je Mohamed Said anajua msimamo wa Makamu Raisi wa kwanza na Raisi wa Zanzibar kuhusu EAMWS? Je Mohamed Said anajua kuwa wako watu ambao katika kujenga umoja wa kitaifa ilibidi wachukuliwe hatua kwa sababu walikuwa wakorofi tu kama hivi sasa walivyochukuliwa hatua Sheikh Ponda na viongozi wa UAMUSHO? Mbona kwenye mihadhara anakohudhuria Mohamed Said sijasikia ama Kikwete akitajwa na badala yake mfumo Kristo ndio unalaumiwa?
Mwisho wake ikawa inahitaji mtu "mwenye roho ngumu" kwelikweli kuikaribia maiti ya "mtakatifu"
Mohamed Said
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Jasusi,
Unajua kama Bi Titi aliteswa sana gerezani?
Na aliyemtesa alijulikana?
Huyu mtesaji unaijua khatma yake ilikuwaje?
Nani ataikubali kauli ya mtu aliyeteswa?
Unajua kama Bi Titi aliteswa sana gerezani?
Na aliyemtesa alijulikana?
Huyu mtesaji unaijua khatma yake ilikuwaje?
Nani ataikubali kauli ya mtu aliyeteswa?
zomba
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Unajaribu lakini huwezi. Nnakuhakikishia, hakuna awezae kutetea maovu. Husutwi na nafsi yako?
zomba
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Atajuwaje huyo? Mbele hakuchezi nyuma hakutikisiki.
zomba
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Hajakuelewa huyo. Labda umwambie "foul fumes".
Nguruvi3
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Na sio jicho la gerezani tu bali la ''umanyema tena wenye waislam asilimia 100''
Mbona upinzani dhidi ya ukoloni ulishaanza siku nyingi. Wapare na Mbiru walibadilisha political landscape kwa kiasi kikubwa sana kama ambavyo nyumbani wakata mkonge walivyofanya.
The fact that makao makuu ya ukoloni yalikuwa Dar inaongeza uzito zaidi kwanini Dar.
Wala sidhani uhuru ungepatikana bila kuungwa mkono na watu wengine wa bara.
Wazee wetu wakiotutangulia waliliangalia tatizo kama lilivyo na kwa umoja wao.
Sisi tunaliangalia kwa ''wale dhidi yetu'' na kubomoa hata ule urithi mdogo wenye thamani sana tulioachiwa.
Sad!
THE BIG SHOW
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wana ukumbi naomba kujua yericko nyerere ni mtoto wa ngapi wa marehem julius kambarage nyerere?ama ana uhisiano gani ya moja kwa moja na mtakatifu julius nyerere?
"eti kambarage leo bila haya,bila soni nayeye anaveshwa cheo cha utakatifu"
mwenye majibu ya uhusiano wa yericko na julius tafadhali atujuze kwa maana yeye mwenyewe kagoma kabisa kuweka wazi ukweli huo.
"eti kambarage leo bila haya,bila soni nayeye anaveshwa cheo cha utakatifu"
mwenye majibu ya uhusiano wa yericko na julius tafadhali atujuze kwa maana yeye mwenyewe kagoma kabisa kuweka wazi ukweli huo.
Yericko Nyerere
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Hilo halihusiana na mada iliyombele yetu mkuu,
Na jambo hilo ni la ndani zaidi (binafsi) halina mafaa kwa taifa kabisa!