Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar

Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar

Mohamed Said said:
Z,

Ngoja nikuongeze nyingine.

Nafasi ile ya rais wa TAA Abdu alimuomba Chief Kidaha Makwaia
wa Shinyanga aichukue.

Hii ilikuwa 1950/51.

Chief Kidaha akakataa ndiyo Abdu akampa nafasi ile Nyerere 1952.

Kama Chief Kidaha angekubali ushauri wa Abdu uchaguzi ungekuwa
kati ya Abdu Sykes na Chief Kidaha Makwaia.

Historia hii hakuwapendeza wengi na ndiyo maana hadi leo inapigwa vita.

Lakini ukweli ndiyo huu.
Click to expand...


Kwanini Abdul hakutaka kuwa Rais wa kwanza wa Tanganyika?
 
zomba said:
Tatizo lako kubwa ni kufikiri kuwa sisi tuna madai, napenda ufahamu kuwa sisi hatudai wala hatudaiwi. Sisi tunaeleza kilichokuwepo bila kuchakachuwa.

Nini ambacho hufaham mpaka dakika hii?

Upo hapo ulipo?
Click to expand...
Uzuri wa matutusa kama ninyi ni kwamba huwa hamna msimamo ulio nyooka (you are always not consistent), leo utasema hili kesho utageuka na kulikana ulilolisema jana! sasa soma kwa makini haya yaliyoletwa na rafiki yako kipenzi Ritz;
Ritz said:
Development and Religion in Tanzania

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH MOVEMENT
Jan P. van Bergen's book quoted Nyerere by saying that the interest of his (Roman) Church came first, and would never go against his Church so as to liberate it from the matope (mud), which it has accumulated by being identified with world situation in Europe. This is clear testimony indicated that Nyerere ruled his country for the betterment of clandestine Catholic Church Movement (CCM), in Tanzania and Muslims in this country were the first in the world who contributed money to the Catholic secessionist state of Biafra in Nigeria to fight against their fellow Muslims in Nigeria, the most populous Muslim nation in Africa. The Catholic Church Movement in Biafra demanded to secede to rid themselves in what they called "a calamitous slavery in an ocean of Muslims." In contrary, a number of Muslim troops from Zanzibar were disproportionately killed during the Nyerere's invasion of Uganda in 1979 which toppled a Muslim ruler, Iddi Amin and re-installed Nyerere's old friend, Milton Obote, a Christian who supported Nyerere for the creation of Tanzania in collaboration with the Central Inteligence Agency (CIA) whose director was George Bush, later the former US President.

Their huge Christian Churches as well as many seminaries and proliferation of foreign priests and sisters in Tanzanian Churches, is a firm evidence that Christian organizations in Tanzania are affiliated with and used by foreign countries, because they can not through their local donation alone to carry out such activities and finance the lavish-style of their Church leaders. All the Churches and monasteries in Tanzania are the property of the Western nations, from where they recieve their orders and budgets for evangelism. For instance, the Tanzanian Catholic Church is the property of Italians, Portuguese, Spaniards, Belgians and French, the Lutheran Church is the property of Germans and Dutch, the architect of the apartheid in South Africa. The Anglican Church is the property of the British, the Moravian Church is the property of the Nordic countries, the Church of Pentecostal Assemblies of God, Seventh Day Adventists and African Inland Mission, among others are the properties of the United States. Further evidence of their affiliation is that all the Churches in developing countries, including Tanzania are referred to as "provinces" meaning that they are a sort of institutional chapters, and that their highest leadership is from the Western countries instead of host countries.

The proliferation of Western Churches in Tanzania, led to the formation of many organizations such as the Tanzania Episcopal Conference (TEC), the Catholic Secretariat representing the largest Christian denomination; the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania (ELCT), representing the non-Catholic denomination; the Christian Council of Tanzania (CCT), comprising of Protestant Missionary Societies, the Office of the Anglican Archbishops, the Office of the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Church and the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahais, among others. The Tanzanian Churches are affiliated either with World Council of Churches or Lutheran World Federation. In contrast, the Muslims in Tanzania are marginalized and they are not allowed to be affiliated with any global Muslim organization, whether the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) or the Islamic Organization of Africa (IOA), in the gist that Tanzania is a secular state, despite the fact that secularism is a Christian ethos of governance (Matthew 22:21) and mimicked from the Western nations like the Unites States. Ironically, that Tanzania is a member of the Commonwealth, whose chief should always be the head of the Anglican Church of England, the former colonial ruler before the ascendancy of Nyerere in Zanzibar and Tanganyika.

EDUCATION UNDER CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP
To many uninformed people, Nyerere is a public defender of secularism in the ruling Party and the government. But his secret meetings with Church leadership is quite the opposite. In his confidential conversation on August 2, 1970, with Rev. Robert Rweyemaum, the then Secretary General of Tanzania Episcopal Conference (TEC), the largest Christian denomination of Catholic Church, Nyerere is quoted in a book Development and Religion in Tanzania by J. P. van Bergen as saying that he has established in TANU a department of political education and that he deliberately appointed a Christian minister to head it not because he was a strong politician but because of his Catholic Faith. This book published by the Catholic Church stated that this reason the Rev. Mushendwa with his strong solid Christian faith, was put in charge of TANU's Development of Political Education. Nyerere continued what was left by the British educational discparity against the Muslims. He was aware of Muslim's grievance in the area of education. He wrote in his book Freedom and Unity that the disparity of educational levels could be used as a political issue:

The enmity which could be stirred by the evil minded between Muslims and Christians as we all know, the colonial government did not concern itself very much with education and therefore the majority of those who managed to acquire did so in the mission schools, and are therefore mostly Christians. Here again, then we have a division by its very existence constitutes a political threat to unity. (p. 179).

The Muslims in Tanganyika who pioneered and led the grassroot struggle against the Anglo-Ducth colonial rule to end oppression have not reaped the fruits of their labor since the 1961 independence. Many questions are now being asked by the contemporary Muslims about this bag puzzle. Educational disparity between Muslims and Christians goes on abated. In Tanganyika, Muslims claimed that they have been marginalised in their own country before and after independence. Their past experience with Nyerere convinced them that it is unfair to expect Christian, however sincere or honest he might appear to the public, to safeguard the interest of Muslims. He vowed not to improve the level of Muslim education in Tanganyika and Zanzibar.

Recent study conducted by G.A. Malekela, a Christian Professor in the Faculty of Education at the University of Dar es Salaam, stated that in the government Secondary schools in Tanganyika in 1983, Christians were 78% and all non-Christians were only 22%. Christians are clearly over represented despite the fact that Muslims are 65% in the population of Tanganyika. The latest research done by the Dar es Salaam University Muslims Trusteeship (DUMT) and published in 1992 by Al-Haqq International showed that the number of Muslim students has been falling in the country's university Dar es Salaam and colleges. At the University of Dar es Salaam alone, the research reported that the total enrollment for the 1986-1990 was 4,191. Out of this number, Muslim students were only 586, or 13%, whereas Christians were 3,609 or 87%. It is was not therefore a sheer coincidence throughout his uninterrupted 24 years as the President of Tanzania (1961-1985), Nyerere, being a Catholic had always appointed a Christian to head the Ministry in Education. Muslims stated that because of this ever-increasing under-representation of Muslims in relation to Christians in Secondary and Higher Education, all key posts in the Tanzanian administration and public institutions came to be dominated by Christians, while Muslims largely relegated to menial positions such as drivers and messengers. The Muslims in Tanganyika are demanding their a fair share of the national cake because after independence, Tanganyikan Muslim student intake, is below 10%; the Muslim Cabinet ministers are negligible while Muslim principal secretaries and heads of parastatal organization are non-existent.

But like Tanganyika, the Muslims in Zanzibar have been discriminated against education in foreign countries after the forceful union of Tanganyika and Zanzibar to form Tanzania. Mohammed Mwinyi Mzale, the then Minister for Education in Zanzibar stated that of the 12 members of the Joint Selection Committee (JOSECO) which selects students for higher education in university and institutions at home and abroad, none is from Zanzibar. He lamented that when students on Zanzibar's scholarship turn up at Tanzania missions abroad, they are kept a stiff arm's length away on the pretext that they are not on a United Republic's scholarship, even though in fact Zanzibar pays its share in the Union's higher education budget. He contended that the executive bodies of higher education are Union only in word but in deeds and in their structure, there are mainland creatures and are there to do its biding. The Union parliament formulate policies for the interest of Tanganyika and believed that somehow the Tanganyika and Union governments are Siamese twins.
Click to expand...

Haya linganisha na makelele yako hapo juu!
 
zumbemkuu said:
jibu hoja za Nguruvi3
Click to expand...

Hoja zipi zakujibiwa nyie kazi yenu kupinga kila kitu mnachotakiwa kufanya nyie kuja na majibu mbadala dhidi ya Mohamed Said,

Mohamed akiandika akitaja majina ya waasisi wa TAA, TANU nyie mpinge muonyeshe waasisi ambayo mnaowajua siyo kuja na maneno matupu.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gwalihenzi said:
Uzuri wa matutusa kama ninyi ni kwamba huwa hamna msimamo ulio nyooka (you are always not consistent), leo utasema hili kesho utageuka na kulikana ulilolisema jana! sasa soma kwa makini haya yaliyoletwa na rafiki yako kipenzi Ritz;

Haya linganisha na makelele yako hapo juu!
Click to expand...

Hicho kitabu cha Bergen Jan Pvan nimemletea Jasusi,

Hata wewe ni rafiki yangu kipenzi hakuna audui wazee wetu wametufundisha ivyo.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mohamed Said said:
N,

Ndiyo siku zote nakuambieni.

Bora mkaandika kitabu mtaeleweka.

Haya maswali na ubishi wa kuunga hapa kata pale
tutazungushana hadi asubuhi.

Hilo la kanisa kupinga siasa na kuwatisha waumini wake
Kleist kalieleza katika "memoir" zake alipokuwa anaeleza
jinsi alivyounda African Association 1929.

Msome Illife "Kleist Sykes..." katika Modern Tanzanians.

Hilo kuwa safari ya pili TANU haikuchangia safari ya UNO
umelitoa wapi.

Hayo mengine wala kwa kweli sipati mantiki ya swali.

Ushauri.

Hebu jikusanyeni andikeni angalau critique ya kitabu
changu huenda mkaja na kitu cha kueleweka.
Click to expand...
Mohamed Saidi, mnakasha huu ni "critique" tosha ya HISTOHISIA yako. Ni hapa tunapopata maelezo na ufafanuzi "live" kutoka kwako na kwa wachangiaji wengine. Hii ya watu waandike kitabu naona unatumia kama kichaka kutaka kufichia uongo na uchochezi wako.
 
Ritz said:
Development and Religion in Tanzania

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH MOVEMENT
Jan P. van Bergen's book quoted Nyerere by saying that the interest of his (Roman) Church came first, and would never go against his Church so as to liberate it from the matope (mud), which it has accumulated by being identified with world situation in Europe. This is clear testimony indicated that Nyerere ruled his country for the betterment of clandestine Catholic Church Movement (CCM), in Tanzania and Muslims in this country were the first in the world who contributed money to the Catholic secessionist state of Biafra in Nigeria to fight against their fellow Muslims in Nigeria, the most populous Muslim nation in Africa. The Catholic Church Movement in Biafra demanded to secede to rid themselves in what they called "a calamitous slavery in an ocean of Muslims." In contrary, a number of Muslim troops from Zanzibar were disproportionately killed during the Nyerere's invasion of Uganda in 1979 which toppled a Muslim ruler, Iddi Amin and re-installed Nyerere's old friend, Milton Obote, a Christian who supported Nyerere for the creation of Tanzania in collaboration with the Central Inteligence Agency (CIA) whose director was George Bush, later the former US President.

Their huge Christian Churches as well as many seminaries and proliferation of foreign priests and sisters in Tanzanian Churches, is a firm evidence that Christian organizations in Tanzania are affiliated with and used by foreign countries, because they can not through their local donation alone to carry out such activities and finance the lavish-style of their Church leaders. All the Churches and monasteries in Tanzania are the property of the Western nations, from where they recieve their orders and budgets for evangelism. For instance, the Tanzanian Catholic Church is the property of Italians, Portuguese, Spaniards, Belgians and French, the Lutheran Church is the property of Germans and Dutch, the architect of the apartheid in South Africa. The Anglican Church is the property of the British, the Moravian Church is the property of the Nordic countries, the Church of Pentecostal Assemblies of God, Seventh Day Adventists and African Inland Mission, among others are the properties of the United States. Further evidence of their affiliation is that all the Churches in developing countries, including Tanzania are referred to as "provinces" meaning that they are a sort of institutional chapters, and that their highest leadership is from the Western countries instead of host countries.

The proliferation of Western Churches in Tanzania, led to the formation of many organizations such as the Tanzania Episcopal Conference (TEC), the Catholic Secretariat representing the largest Christian denomination; the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania (ELCT), representing the non-Catholic denomination; the Christian Council of Tanzania (CCT), comprising of Protestant Missionary Societies, the Office of the Anglican Archbishops, the Office of the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Church and the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahais, among others. The Tanzanian Churches are affiliated either with World Council of Churches or Lutheran World Federation. In contrast, the Muslims in Tanzania are marginalized and they are not allowed to be affiliated with any global Muslim organization, whether the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) or the Islamic Organization of Africa (IOA), in the gist that Tanzania is a secular state, despite the fact that secularism is a Christian ethos of governance (Matthew 22:21) and mimicked from the Western nations like the Unites States. Ironically, that Tanzania is a member of the Commonwealth, whose chief should always be the head of the Anglican Church of England, the former colonial ruler before the ascendancy of Nyerere in Zanzibar and Tanganyika.

EDUCATION UNDER CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP
To many uninformed people, Nyerere is a public defender of secularism in the ruling Party and the government. But his secret meetings with Church leadership is quite the opposite. In his confidential conversation on August 2, 1970, with Rev. Robert Rweyemaum, the then Secretary General of Tanzania Episcopal Conference (TEC), the largest Christian denomination of Catholic Church, Nyerere is quoted in a book Development and Religion in Tanzania by J. P. van Bergen as saying that he has established in TANU a department of political education and that he deliberately appointed a Christian minister to head it not because he was a strong politician but because of his Catholic Faith. This book published by the Catholic Church stated that this reason the Rev. Mushendwa with his strong solid Christian faith, was put in charge of TANU's Development of Political Education. Nyerere continued what was left by the British educational discparity against the Muslims. He was aware of Muslim's grievance in the area of education. He wrote in his book Freedom and Unity that the disparity of educational levels could be used as a political issue:

The enmity which could be stirred by the evil minded between Muslims and Christians as we all know, the colonial government did not concern itself very much with education and therefore the majority of those who managed to acquire did so in the mission schools, and are therefore mostly Christians. Here again, then we have a division by its very existence constitutes a political threat to unity. (p. 179).

The Muslims in Tanganyika who pioneered and led the grassroot struggle against the Anglo-Ducth colonial rule to end oppression have not reaped the fruits of their labor since the 1961 independence. Many questions are now being asked by the contemporary Muslims about this bag puzzle. Educational disparity between Muslims and Christians goes on abated. In Tanganyika, Muslims claimed that they have been marginalised in their own country before and after independence. Their past experience with Nyerere convinced them that it is unfair to expect Christian, however sincere or honest he might appear to the public, to safeguard the interest of Muslims. He vowed not to improve the level of Muslim education in Tanganyika and Zanzibar.

Recent study conducted by G.A. Malekela, a Christian Professor in the Faculty of Education at the University of Dar es Salaam, stated that in the government Secondary schools in Tanganyika in 1983, Christians were 78% and all non-Christians were only 22%. Christians are clearly over represented despite the fact that Muslims are 65% in the population of Tanganyika. The latest research done by the Dar es Salaam University Muslims Trusteeship (DUMT) and published in 1992 by Al-Haqq International showed that the number of Muslim students has been falling in the country's university Dar es Salaam and colleges. At the University of Dar es Salaam alone, the research reported that the total enrollment for the 1986-1990 was 4,191. Out of this number, Muslim students were only 586, or 13%, whereas Christians were 3,609 or 87%. It is was not therefore a sheer coincidence throughout his uninterrupted 24 years as the President of Tanzania (1961-1985), Nyerere, being a Catholic had always appointed a Christian to head the Ministry in Education. Muslims stated that because of this ever-increasing under-representation of Muslims in relation to Christians in Secondary and Higher Education, all key posts in the Tanzanian administration and public institutions came to be dominated by Christians, while Muslims largely relegated to menial positions such as drivers and messengers. The Muslims in Tanganyika are demanding their a fair share of the national cake because after independence, Tanganyikan Muslim student intake, is below 10%; the Muslim Cabinet ministers are negligible while Muslim principal secretaries and heads of parastatal organization are non-existent.

But like Tanganyika, the Muslims in Zanzibar have been discriminated against education in foreign countries after the forceful union of Tanganyika and Zanzibar to form Tanzania. Mohammed Mwinyi Mzale, the then Minister for Education in Zanzibar stated that of the 12 members of the Joint Selection Committee (JOSECO) which selects students for higher education in university and institutions at home and abroad, none is from Zanzibar. He lamented that when students on Zanzibar's scholarship turn up at Tanzania missions abroad, they are kept a stiff arm's length away on the pretext that they are not on a United Republic's scholarship, even though in fact Zanzibar pays its share in the Union's higher education budget. He contended that the executive bodies of higher education are Union only in word but in deeds and in their structure, there are mainland creatures and are there to do its biding. The Union parliament formulate policies for the interest of Tanganyika and believed that somehow the Tanganyika and Union governments are Siamese twins.
Click to expand...



What more can you say?
 
Mohamed Said said:
Jasusi,
Mbona sijatamba?

Hebu nipe hiyo ''source'' uliyosoma inayoeleza habari za Nyerere
alivyofika Stanley Street kwa Abdu Sykes; kisha Mtaa wa Amani
kwenye madras ya Sheikh Hassan bin Amir; kisha Mtaa wa Mbaruku
kwa Dossa Aziz.

Mwisho New Street na Kariakoo ofisi za TAA.
Click to expand...

this is petty history...
 
Gwalihenzi said:
Mohamed Saidi, mnakasha huu ni "critique" tosha ya HISTOHISIA yako. Ni hapa tunapopata maelezo na ufafanuzi "live" kutoka kwako na kwa wachangiaji wengine. Hii ya watu waandike kitabu naona unatumia kama kichaka kutaka kufichia uongo na uchochezi wako.
Click to expand...

G,

Inaelekea hilo la kuandika kitabu limekushindeni.
Sistaajabu kwani naelewa uzito wa kuandika kitabu.

Mimi siwezi kujificha kwenye kichaka chochote.
Lakini huo ukweli wenu mbona hatuuoni.

Mengi ni kutoka kwangu.
Wasomaji wanapata darsa zangu.

Kisha nyie mnafuatilia nyuma kwa kejeli na kebehi.

Nakuwekeeani vitu vya ndani kabisa hata Nyaraka
za Taifa (National Archive) hawana.

Mko tuliiiii...
Kama vile hamjui kusoma.

Hivi ndivyo tunavyoendesha mnakasha ambao
sasa wasikizaji wamepita 70,000.
 
Gwalihenzi said:
Mohamed Saidi, mnakasha huu ni "critique" tosha ya HISTOHISIA yako. Ni hapa tunapopata maelezo na ufafanuzi "live" kutoka kwako na kwa wachangiaji wengine. Hii ya watu waandike kitabu naona unatumia kama kichaka kutaka kufichia uongo na uchochezi wako.
Click to expand...

Wacha hizo wewe mzee ametoa ushauri mzuri kwasababu sio watu wote walokisoma kitabu cha mzee mohamed said wako hapa jf kwahiyo nyinyi mnaodai ni uchochezi wazindueni kwa kuandika kitabu chenu sawa bwana mdogo?
 
Mzee Mwanakijiji said:
Kwanini Abdul hakutaka kuwa Rais wa kwanza wa Tanganyika?
Click to expand...

MM,

Abdu angechukua uongozi wa TANU 1954 ingekuwa tabu sana
kupata mwelekeo wa umoja wa Watanganyika.

Angalia ile picha ya TANU pale New Street ya Waislam watupu.
Waingereza wangepata mahali pa kupenyeza fitna zao.

Wasingeshindwa kuihusisha TANU na Al Jamiatul Islamiyya na kusema
na kukipa chama nembo ya udini.

Ingelikuwa tabu sana kujinasua hapo na hasa kama wangejitokeza Wakristo
wakaunda chama cha siasa.

Hii ndiyo sababu ya kutaka kumleta Chief Kidaha katika TAA na kisha iundwe
TANU Kidaha akiwa rais wake.

Nyerere alijaza vizuri sana ile nafasi na ingawa palikuwa na matatizo lakini
yaliwezwa kutatuliwa bila ya TANU kutetereka.

Ilikuwa picha ya aina yake pale Mnazi Mmoja Sheikh Suleiman Takadir anapanda
jukwaani anasoma dua kisha anamkaribisha Nyerere kuhutubia.
 
Ngongo said:
Duh mkuu Nguruvi3 utashangaa bado watabisha ha ha ha raha duniani.
Click to expand...

Ngongo/Nguruvi,

Umeweka maswali mengi.
Mimi siwezi kuwa katili kiasi nisikupe ahueni ya kupumua.

Naona Matola kakukaa sana na unajaribu kumgonganisha
na Kleist.

Mimi sina haja ya kumdunisha Matola na hata nikitaka
kumkweza Kleist nitakuwa nafanya kazi ambayo haina
ulazima.

Katika waasisi wale wote wa African Association ni Kleist
peke yake aloacha kumbukumbu zake nyuma baada ya kifo
chake 1949.

Sina haja ya kuzieleza nyaraka za Sykes ni mashuhuri kote.

Unafurahishwa na neno Nyerere ''kambwaga'' Abdu Sykes.
Mimi nitakufurahisha kama nilivyosema mimi si ''sadist'' kuwa
nijisikie raha kwa mateso na maumivu yako.

Nilisema hapa Nyerere amesema hajui Abdu alikuwa na cheo
gani katika TAA.

Kimbembe chake sote tumekishuhudia.

Unadhani hiyo yako ya ''kubwagwa'' na mghafiliko wa Nyerere
kuhusu Abdu kipo kizito?

Achilia mbali hilo.

Ile kuwa kitabu kizima cha historia ya TANU kimeandikwa jina la
Abdu halimo na hii yako ya ''kubwagwa'' ipi kubwa?

Ningeweza kuandika mengi kujaribu kujibu yote uloweka lakini
ndiyo iwe nini?

Mimi nakupa ushindi nataka ufurahi.

Yote ulosema wewe uko sawa kabisa.
Wazee wangu si lolote si chochote...

Lakini nina ombi moja tu.

Lau kwa mukhtasari tuhadithie historia ya wazee wako katika
TANU.
 
hivi waislam J.K., MWINYI, SALIMIN na wengine walioongoza katika nchi hii, wameifanyia nini Tanzania?
 
DULLAH MSAVIVOR said:
Labda kwa kuwa anaona hujaliweka jina la Kikristo la DAVID basi utakuwa umekwepa kuutukuza ukristo na kuzid kuupa nafasi uislam na waislam katika unandishi wa historia hii..

Kumbuka hawa madai yao kwa kias kikubwa yameegemea kule wanakosema ya kwamba historia hii inawabeba sana waislam kwa kisa tuh ya kwamba wametajwa tajwa sana kwa wingi kupita kiasi..

Wana lao jambo,na limeshafeli na kufa kifo kibaya sana..
Click to expand...

DM,

Nilikutana na Chief Kidaha David Makwaia 1967/68.

Mwanae ambae ndiye mtemi wa Wasukuma hivi sasa
nimesomanae darasa moja.

Yeye ndiye alinichukua kwenda kumuona baba yetu.
Wakati ule mzee wetu alikuwa akiishi Nairobi.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Our Community

Regional Communities

Back
Top Bottom
Menu
Forums
New posts
Log in
Register