Mohamed Said
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 2, 2008
- 21,967
- 32,074
Nyambala tusivutane.
Tuendelee na mengine.
Tukiingia kwenye ubishi tutaharibu muruwa
wa mnakasha na watazamaji watatuchoka.
Hahahaha!!!!!!!!! mzee Saidi bana, hii wewe si ndiyo unaita historia ya kweli??????? Ungekuwa muungwana namna hii wala tusingefika mbali hivi. Vipi kuhusu ile 10% pale mlimani katika mapokezi ya Garang umeiderive kutoka wapi?
Mzee Saidi usikumbie, jibu hoja
1. Ni lini Philip Marmo alikuwa mbunge wa Monduli?
2. Ni lini Kighoma Malima na Mwinyi waliserve kwa pamoja in the vice president's office?
3. Ni kwa nini na kwa vipi Warioba alikwa ni unknown face with no credentials alipoteuliwa kuwa Waziri mkuu?
4. Je Malima alipokuwa akilalamika kuwa anahujumiwa na Kikwete kwa nini hakumtaja Nyerere?
5. Ni baraza lipi la mawaziri Malima na Mwinyi walisevu pamoja? Na Malima kiwa waziri wa nini na Mwinyi waziri wa nini?
Kama kawaida Mzee wetu eti sasa hivi ndiyo anakumbuka OIC.
Kwanini apeleke Marekani na sio Saudia au Somalia?
But why was Nyerere quite while this was happening?
Nyerere never liked Mwinyi simply because he was not his preferred choice for presidency.
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Wengi wanaweza kuuita uongo; mie nauita ulaghai kwa sababu swali moja tu - wewe umejuaje Nyerere "never liked" Mwinyi? Yaani Nyerere amuachie mtu nchi tena kwa miaka yote kumi na hata wakati jeshi lilipokuwa linamlalamikia Nyerere alimkingia Kifua Mwinyi unasema alikuwa 'hampendi"? Really?
Haya uliyatoa wapi? Maana husemi chanzo chake ni nini; isije kuwa uliota ndotoni tu ukayaamini. Mwinyi yupo hai, Warioba yupo hai! Hujawauliza; unasema "kwanini hawajakanusha"!
Haya ni maoni yako au ni 'fact". Unapoandika kitabu cha historia au kutoa madai ya kihistoria ama onesha chanzo chako (kiwe credible) au onesha ushahidi wa unachodai. How did Nyerere impose the Cabinet on Mwinyi? Hivi si ni Mwinyi aliyevunja baraza lake la Mawaziri au ni Nyerere alimlazimisha Mwinyi kuvunja baraza? Mwinyi yupo hai?
What on earth!!?
Oh boy!.. did you just say that Nyerere "imposed" baraza la Mawaziri halafu unasema Mwinyi ali "ignore"? HOw can one impose something on the other person while the other person has the power to just ignore it? Inawezekana yalikuwa tu ni mapendekezo (assuming unasema kweli)?
HOw do you know "what angered Nyerere most"? Did he confide it to someone from whom you extracted this knowledge? Unajuaje kuwa Nyerere "alikasirishwa sana" na hilo - which still negates your original argument kuwa Nyerere "imposed" the Cabinet! kwenye mantiq inaitwa "internal contradiction". Kitu hakiwezi kuwa au kutokuwepo kuhusiana na kitu hicho hicho kizima kama siyo kipande (falsafa hiyo). Maji hayawezi kuwa maji na wakati huo huo yakawa udongo! Mtu hawezi kuwa anakwenda na wakati huo huo akawa amesimama!
Did you just say "both were Ministers of State in Vice President's Office"? Did you just say that or am I reading it backward? Who appointed them into those portfolios? I bet it couldn't have been Nyerere! How can Nyerere mwenye chuki na Waislamu awateue Waislamu hawa wazuri namna hii akiwemo Malima?
Mengine uliyosema yanaangukia kwenye sanduku la "porojo" za vijiweni tu; hakuna cha 'informant' wala shangazi yake 'informant". Just made up stories to spice up your story. Unfortunately, wadogo zetu hapa wasioweza kupepeta wanaamini na kuapa kabisa kuwa ni kweli!
Oh Boy!
Watu wanayaita hayo ni Matusi! Mimi nashangaa sana
Hata wasipojibu ukweli tumeshaujua.Mkuu endelea kutupa Darasa
Definition ya Terrorism ni nini mwenye jibu naomba anisaidie.
Wewe Gwalihenzi nina uhakika huwezi kujibu lakini utakuwa umetufanyia wema kama utaweza kumshawishi Nguruvi ajibu HOJA HII YA SENSA.
Kwa kifupi alitaka kuhalalisha kudhulumiwa waislamu kupitia sensa.Sensa ya 1967 ilionesha waislamu walikuwa 67% sasa yeye alitaka kukanusha uwingi wa waislamu kwa kutumia porojo zake badala ya kuunga mkono sensa nyengine.
Wewe Gwalihenzi unayetumia akili yako tuambie wapi umeona sensa ikapingwa kwa porojo.
Oh Boy!
Watu wanayaita hayo ni Matusi! Mimi nashangaa sana
Hata wasipojibu ukweli tumeshaujua.Mkuu endelea kutupa Darasa
Rapheri,
Ikiwa umekusudia niliposema alinitukana ni kweli amenitusi.
Mimi si mtu wa kupayuka.
Pitia post zangu nisome utanielewa.
Mimi nakuomba tustahiane ili tuelimishane vinginevyo nitakupuuza na nitakuwa
sikujibu chochote.
Uamuzi ni wako.
Hii taarifa yako ni ya uongo mtupu na yenye kujichanganya.Mdondoaji, unajaribu kisichowezekana; unajaribu kukataa uwepo wa jua wakati linakumulika! Wewe umeshajiamulia kuwa Vatican City si nchi na hivyo ushahidi wote hata uwekwe mbele yako vipi utaukataa. Utatafuta 'wanasheria' wanaotetea msimamo wako wakati wapo wengi wanaoenda kinyuma na huo (na hivyo hutojitofautisha na M. Said).
Sasa sijui tukusaidia vipi kujua historia ya Vatican City - Papa alitawala Papal States kwa karibu miaka 1000! Ukumbuke kuwa Vatican kama makao makuu ya Papa imekuwepo kabla ya ujio wa Uislamu. Papa kama kiongozi wa kidini na kiserikali amefanya hivyo kama halifa wa Petro. Suala la dini na serikali kama sehemu moja ya mfumo wa utawala imekuwepo kwenye Ukristu kabla ya kuwepo kwenye Uislamu.
Leo hii ukisikia Waislamu wanasema kuwa dini na serikali havitofautishwi watu wanadhania ni dhana mpya au imekuja na Uislamu. Dhana hiyo imekuwepo kwenye Kanisa kwa muda mrefu. Hata hivyo, baada ya migongano ya kihistoria Kanisa Katoliki liliamua kujikita katika "ufalme wa Mbinguni" kuliko "Ufalme wa Duniani" na hivyo kujikita kwenye masuala ya kiroho na maisha ya duniani hapa bila kudai haki za kiutawala wa kidunia. Baada ya Italy kuunganishwa (Unifikication) kulikuwa na uadui uliodumu kwa karibu miaka sitini kati yake na Vatican City (chini ya Papa) kwa ardhi kubwa ya nchi za Papa yalichukuliwa na ufalme wa Italy hadi mkataba wa Lateran mwaka 1929. NImeshakudokeza hapo nyuma juu ya historia hiyo.
Vatican City basi haijawahi kuwa chini ya nchi ya Italy; imezungukwa na Italy kama Lesotho au Swaziland zilivyozungukwa na Afrika ya Kusini. Vatican City haijawahi kuwa chini ya Mfalme wa Italy bali hata Roma yenyewe (ambayo ni makao makuu ya Italia) imewahi kuwa chini ya Papa.
Sasa ukweli huu unaweza kuudhi, unaweza kuuchukia lakini ni ukweli wa historia. Siyo ukweli wangu mimi au kusema nasema hivyo kwa sababu nami ni Mkatoliki la hasha. NI ukweli wa historia kwa sababu huwezi kutumia historia kuupinga. Kama unaweza naomba ujibu maswali haya:
a. Vatican City ina uhusiano gani na Italy?
b. Mkuu wa Vatican City ni nani?
c. Holy See ina uhusiano gani na Vatican City na vyote viwili vinauhusiano gani na Papa?
d. Je, Vatican City inajitambuaje yenyewe (ni mkoa, kijiji, au sehemu ya Italy)?
e. Je Papal States zilikuwa ni nini?
Jaribu tu kutafuta majibu haya kwenye historia uone kama yatapingana na nilichosema mimi. Sasa, unaweza kuwa na hoja kuwa hutaki Nchi ya Papa iwwe na uhusiano na Tanzania kwa sababu ni nchi ya Kidini au ya Kikristu. Hii ni haki yako na unaweza kuanzisha mwamko wa kutaka Tanzania ivunje uhusiano nayo. Unaweza kujaribu.
Inahusianaje na mnakasha huu?
Usomeshaji wako ni wa namna kweli...mwanafunzi akiuliza swali kwa kile unachofundisha unamuambia tuendelee na mengine...sasa tutajifunza nini?Nyambala tusivutane.
Tuendelee na mengine.
Tukiingia kwenye ubishi tutaharibu muruwa
wa mnakasha na watazamaji watatuchoka.
Mkuu,
Mie PhD yangu nimeipatia huko ndio maana nikamshauri aende huko kama wewe ulisoma huko basi sawa tu lakini nachofahamu mie ndio nilichokipendekeza.
Usomeshaji wako ni wa namna kweli...mwanafunzi akiuliza swali kwa kile unachofundisha unamuambia tuendelee na mengine...sasa tutajifunza nini?
Hakuna dhulma dhidi ya Waislamu Tanzania; this whole premise is flawed and in fact has never been proven by anyone. Ukifuatilia sana utaona absurdity yake. Ukiangalia sana utaona kuwa walioanzisha madai haya (kikundi cha vijana wa Kiislamu) walikuwa Chuo Kikuu (kina Hamza Njozi, Dau, n.k). Ni hawa ambao leo wamefanikiwa na hawajawahi kudhulumiwa wao wenyewe!
Lakini cha kushangaza zaidi ni kuwa ukitaka kujua kuna dhulma waulize Waislamu wote ambao wamefanikiwa - Kina Mohammed Said, Kikwete, Dau, Boko Haram n.k - ni kwa jinsi gani Kanisa au Wakristu waliwasaidia kufika hapo walipofika. Kwa maneno mengine mfumo Kristu umewasaidia vipi wao kufikia mafanikio waliyokuwa nayo?
Nguruvi,
Unapenda sana kusema sina hoja nk.
Si kitu.
Nimeeleza yangu nawe umesema yako ingawa unaandika kwa ghadhabu
kama vile usingependa mie niseme.
Barza ipo tuendelee na mnakasha Insha Allah.
Hakujawahi kuwepo sensa Tanzania inayoonyesha kuwa Waislamu walikuwa ni 67%. Nitaitafuta hiyo sensa ya 1967 niibandike hapa. It was 35%-30% 30%
Rapheri,
Ikiwa umekusudia niliposema alinitukana ni kweli amenitusi.
Mimi si mtu wa kupayuka.
Pitia post zangu nisome utanielewa.
Mimi nakuomba tustahiane ili tuelimishane vinginevyo nitakupuuza na nitakuwa
sikujibu chochote.
Uamuzi ni wako.
Tuendelee na Mnakasha Mzee wangu
Kuna maswali yanahitaji majibu
Ama hilo la kunipuuza wala lisikupe tabu
Ahadi zako za aina hii ziko nyingi mno lakini hakuna kitu. Unaona ugumu gani kutaja chaguo la Mwalimu wakati ilikuwa rahisi kusema kuwa Alhaj Mwinyi halikuwa chaguo lake? Kumbuka humu JF unajadiliana na watu ambao mko level moja kielimu, kiumri na kiuelewa wa siasa na mambo ya nchi hii. Usitudanganyie pipi au kutufanya kama kuku na ahadi yake kwa vifaranga kuwa watanyonya maziwa!Wild Card,
Vuta subra ndio kwanza darsa linaanza.
Ndugu yangu usinione hivi.
Nina mengi ambayo wengi hamjayasikia.
Hebu niambie unavionaje hivyo vitu nilivyoleta barzani?
Umeiona ya OIC?
Insha Allah tuombe uzima.
"Na hayo mabuku yako hayo ya skuli unatalii huko ndiko
kusoma.Utakuwa mjuzi na katika lolote usemalo utakuwa
rais yaani utatawala uwanja wanakusikiza wewe..."
Huyu ni maalim wangu Sheikh Haruna akituhimiza wanafunzi
wake umuhimu wa kusoma si dini tu na mabuku ya skuli.
Kadogoo,Jokakuu,
Umegusa mzizi wa fitina! Elimu ndio ufunguo wa maisha! kama unakiri kuna ubaguzi wa elimu TZ basi hilo sijambo dogo hata kidogo! ukisema tunapoteza muda kumtafuta mchawi sidhani kama uko sawa bali Waislamu wameiasa Serikali tangu ya awamu ya kwanza mpaka leo madai ya ubaguzi ktk elimu wala Serikali haijali! Serikali ya Mkapa iliunda tume kuchunguza kuuwawa mbwa! inakuwaje suala muhimu la ubaguzi wa elimu watu wanaziba masikio? kuna usiri gani hapa?
Waislamu hawatafuti mchawi bali wanamjua na tayari mchawi mwenyewe ashatajwa! sasa kama wenzetu hamtaki tumtose huyu mchawi kwanini Serikali isiunde tume huru kuchunguza madai ya Waislamu!
MM,
Mpaka lini utaendelea kuja hapa na mifano ya majina ya Waislamu wachache waliofanikiwa dhidi ya mamilioni ya Waislamu dhalili? mpaka lini? JK na Mohamed Said kusomeshwa na Kanisa hakuhalalishi kufelishwa kwa mamilioni ya wanafunzi Waislamu waliofelishwa na NECTA wakishirikiana na mfumo kristo ndani ya Wizara ya elimu!
Mwanakijiji,
umeshapata kusoma habari za Marehemu Mzee Lilla Bori? Tafadhali soma kipande hiki kutoka kitabu cha Prof. Hamza Mustafa Njozi, "Mwembechai Killings..."
"In 1987 the then Minister for Education and Culture the late Professor Kighoma Malima discovered that deserving Muslim candidates were deliberately being denied access to secondary education.(It is curious to note that throughout his 25 - year rule, Nyerere had always appointed a Christian to head the Ministry of Education and a Muslim to head the Ministry of Home Affairs.)
The trick used by the Christian dominated panel was to select the candidates after decoding their examination numbers. Professor Malima directed the panel to select and announce the results using examination numbers only. In that year the percentage of selected Muslim candidates rose by 40 per cent! He alerted the president about the matter and suggested a thorough investigation be carried out. He was branded Mujahidina and removed from that portfolio and the selection panel reverted to its old system. He repeated those charges at a public rally in Dar es Salaam in 1995. Any government which is fiercely secular would certainly wish to know the truth of the matter.
Apparently there was no need for the government to investigate the obvious. On July 7, 1999 Muslim leaders paid a courtesy call to President Mkapa at the State House in Dar es Salaam. In the course of their informal discussions Muslims raised the issue of decoding examination numbers. According to my informant the president was clearly surprised. When he asked his Minister for Education and Culture who also attended the talks, the minister confirmed the Muslims account. As a result one of the numerous but supposed isolated cases came to light in January 1999.
A Muslim candidate one Adam Ramadhani Kindenge of Gilman Rutihinda primary school was not selected. His father disputed the fairness of the selection process and demanded to be shown the scripts. It was an embarrassing case. Christian candidates with lower points were selected and Adam who had higher points was left out. No one in the ministry could hazard an explanation. The case was disconcerting in view of Kitwana Kondos question in Parliament. But it was a case which like others in the past the ministry managed to suppress. For details see Ramadhani Kindenges two letters to the Ministry of Education and Culture (1999).
Despite protests from Muslims, the same ministry had also successfully managed to hide from many unsuspecting Tanzanians another discomfiting letter bearing Ref. No. E10/MMC-1/183 of 9 June, 1998 from the Morogoro Municipal Education Officer directing all Headteachers to submit to that office the names of all Standard Seven Catholic students! When a weekly Muslim newspaper An-Nuur confronted the ministry with that letter the spokesperson was too embarrassed to comment. He promised however to investigate the matter. A time-tested device of dropping a hot potato!
Adam Kindenges case above is not an isolated one. Muslims have a long list of such cases. The name of a selected Muslim candidate, Kopa Abdallah of Kichangani primary school, in Kilosa was in 1983 unfairly cancelled out in favour of a Christian, Mr. Anthony Samirani who scored less points. Mr. Kopa is today employed as a driver. Was it merely a case of corruption? In his long career as a Secondary School Headmaster and later as a high ranking civil servant, Mr. Bori Lilla was twice confronted with incredible discoveries of religious discrimination in the country. Mr. Bori Lilla is today one of the highly respected Muslim elders in the country and is affectionately referred to as Mzee Lilla.
He told me and he has repeated this account to many others that he was once in the marking and selection committee and was mistaken for a Christian. After marking the scripts he decoded and recorded the names according to their pass marks, and there were as many Muslims as there were Christians. A fellow panelist who was a Christian saw the list and was very furious, he said in a loud voice, Wewe huoni kama orodha yako ina Waislamu wengi sana, au wewe ni mgeni nini hapa? (Dont you see that your list has so many Muslims, or could it be that you are a new comer here?). Mzee Lilla says that he responded in an equally loud voice, Mimi siyo mgeni, mimi ni Muislamu. The room was gripped with an eerie silence.
Mzee Lilla witnessed the second revelation of deliberate religious discrimination when he was in the selection panel for allocating High School places for deserving Ordinary Level candidates. It was during the Islamic holy month of Ramadhan and they had almost finished their task when Christian panelists broke for lunch. The panel had only two Muslims who stayed behind. The other Muslim panelist, Mr. Abdulrahman Mwalongo, was writing something and needed a ruler which was in the Chairpersons draw.
When he opened it he found along with the ruler, a list of 25 First class Muslim candidates who had not yet been allocated any place in High Schools while all their Christian counterparts had already been placed. And the panels chairperson who was also a Reverend had not even hinted that there was such a list. Mwalongo is from the Hehe ethnic group. And the Hehe are known in Tanzania as fierce warriors. When their colleagues returned, Mwalongo reminded the chairperson about the list in his draw. He brushed aside Mwalongos concern saying that those candidates would be taken care of later.
Quite unexpectedly,Mwalongo banged his table so forcefully that all members were taken aback. Shaking with rage Mwalongo told the chairperson no business would take place in that room before the allocation of the 25 Muslim students. The chairperson backed down and those students were placed. In July 1997 I cross-checked Mzee Lillas account with Mwalongo himself. He confirmed the story. As I am writing this book, both of them are still alive and can easily be contacted for further details."
Baada ya kuonekana ukweli huu katika kitabu serikali ya Benjamin Mkapa ilikipiga marufuku.