Uchochezi wa Mohamed Said na dhihaka kwa Wapigania Uhuru wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar

Ami,na ukimuona mtu wa kuongea kwa sampuli kama hiyo ya Nguruvi3 basi ujue ni mtu asie na uhakika na jambo lake,
Mara utaskia huenda,mara utaskia inawezekana,mara utaskia tujaalie n,k.,ni watu wasio na uhakika wala uelewa wa uhakika na jambo wanalolisema,ni watu wa kuwaangalia kwa umakini wa hali ya juu,hasa hasa huyo na yule mwenzake Babu Mfia dini..
Sampuli hii ya watu sisi tunawaita Vihiyo au Makanjanja..

JokaKuu said:

Gwalihenzi, Ami, Mohamed Said, THE BIG SHOW, Boko haram,

..kwa eneo la Afrika Mashariki, Muarabu/Muislamu ndiyo alikuwa kinara wa kukamata Watumwa.

..kwa eneo la Afrika ya Kati na Mreno/Mkristo ndiyo alikuwa ni kinara wa biashara ya Watumwa.

..kwa msingi mimi hata sijui mnapotaka kuanzisha mjadala huo ni kitu gani haswa mnajaribu ku-achieve.

..zaidi, naomba kuwauliza: hivi mnajitambua nyinyi kwamba ni WAAFRIKA, na kwamba ktk suala zima la utumwa, mababu zetu walikuwa ni victims??

..kama nyinyi mnafikiri si Waafrika, bali ni Waarabu, au Wazungu, basi endeleeni na mjadala wenu wa nani alikuwa kinara wa biashara ya Utumwa.

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Kote huko kuanzia Afrika Mashariki,kati na Afrika ya magharibi wazungu wakristo ndio waliokuwa wafanyaji biashara ya utumwa.
Kama una mfano wa muarabu au muislamu aliyefanya biashara hiyo toa hapa.

THE BIG SHOW said:

Kilichofanyika ni very simple,kuandikwa kwa historia ya wale wapigania uhuru wa nchi hii ambao kwa makusudi hawakuenziwa n kufutwa
kuonekana kwa hao walioachwa na kufutwa wengi ni waislam basi ndiko sasa kunakostahili kuhoji,why?.

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Na hapo ndipo mchochezi wenu Mohamed Said alipowaingiza mkenge! Mapambano dhidi ya ukoloni hayakuwa milki ya watu wachache wa Dar es salaam tu, watanganyika wengi sana walishiriki mapambano haya. Ndio maana ukienda kila makao makuu ya wilaya za Tanzania ya leo utapata simulizi za wazee walio mpokea Nyerere, waliompikia chakula, waliompa mahali pa kulala, waliomuombea dua, waliotoa michango ya hali na mali. Ili mradi kila mtanganyika alishiriki kwa namna moja ama nyingine. Watanganyika hawa walitaka kwa pamoja uhuru wao dhidi ya wakoloni. Malengo na matumaini ya uhuru yalitofautiana kwa mtu na mtu na kwa tabaka moja na jingine. Ili kuleta msimamo mmoja na malengo haya, viongozi wa vyama walijiwekea Katiba. AA ilikuwa na katiba yake, TAA ikaja na katiba yake na TANU ambayo madhumuni yake yalikuwa kuleta uhuru ilikuwa na katiba yake. Mzee Mohamed Saidi tulimuuliza kwamba wakati anaandika kitabu chake anachotamba nacho, aliwahi kuzipitia katiba hizo ili angalau aone malengo na madhumni ya vyama hivyo yalikuwa yapi? alikana bayana humu humu jamvini kuwa kwake yeye hakuona umhimu wa kupitia katiba hizo. Tunawauliza nyie wapambe wake je ni kweli hakukuwa na umhimu wa kupitia katiba hizo? Nikweli kwamba katiba hizo ziliainisha kuwa mwanachama atatambuliwa na kuenziwa kwa imani ya dini yake? Mohamed ameng'ang'ania wazee wa kipata na Narung'ombe kusahauliwa katika historia, je wale wazee wa Nachingwea, Mdandu, Lindi, Masasi, Loliondo, Mbeya, Tunduru... ambao walimpikia ugali Nyerere, waliochangia chochote na wengine walifukuzwa kazi hawana thamani kama wazee wa kipata! kwa nini mzee Mohamed anatilia mkazo uislam wa wapigania uhuru hawa? je katiba ya TANU ilisemaje kuhusu dini za wafuasi wake?

Ami said:

Ami,Hebu rudi usome post yangu kwa umakini na ukiwa umetuliza akili.Mohamed anatakiwa afahamu kuwa population ni ''variable value'' kwamba si lazima asilimia 67 ya mwaka 1967 ibaki kama ilivyo.Kuna uwezekano iliongezeka na kufikia 80 au kupungua na kufikia 40 kwahiyo alitakiwa kwanza apate the most recent stats.Kufanya extrapolation ya mwaka 1967 ni sawa na mtu kupanga mipango ya maendeleo ya nchi kwa kutumia stats za 1967. Huku ni kupotosha vijana.Hapa nilitoa mfano ili kusisitiza hoja yangu kuwa Mohamed anapaswa atumie data za siku za karibuni kwakuelewa kuwa population ni kitu dyanamic as opposed to static.


Malalamiko yako kuhusu vijana wa Mohammed yamekuwa mengi

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hamna lolote la maana unalosema hapa


Habari za asilimia na jumla unajidanganya unapodhani sisi hatuelewi.Hivi vitu ukiviona vinavyochambuliwa kwenye vitabu vyetu mwenyewe utashangaa.


Ikiwa hakuna sensa nyengine kuthibitisha hilo na wewe huna taarifa madhubuti juu ya kuhama waislamu basi uwezekano unaouzungumzia haukuwepo.


Uwezekano ,uwezekano,uwezekano........
Uwezekano ambao ni ukweli ni kuwa kila mwaka watu hutoka mikoani na kuhamia Dar es salaam hasa mikoa yenye umaskini zaidi inayokaliwa na waislamu wengi kama vile Lindi,Mtwara,Kigoma,Tabora,Tanga na kwengineko.
Hivyo population distribution ya Dar es salaam uwezekano wa kuwapunguzika mpaka ukajitokeza kwenye uchaguzi wa wanafunzi wa kuingia kidato cha 1 kwa 83/17 ni udanganyifu na dhulma za wazi wazi za mfumo kristo.
Ikiwa unapinga hili hupaswi kuja na maneno ya uwezekano bali utafiti wa kiwango chochote au sensa rasmi.

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Ami,

Kuna uwezekano zipo nyingi sana kwenye utafiti.

Endelea kutoa darsa mimi nakusoma na miwani ya 3D huku nakunywa gahawa.

Nguruvi3 said:

Na mwisho wa jedwali amesema sensa ingeakisi idadi ya wanafunzi kwa kuwa na waislam wengi waliochaguliwa kwa vile sensa hiyo inaonyesha idadi ya waislam katika jiji ni kubwa kuliko wakristo.

Hapa ni mwendelezo wa kosa lile lile la 100% Muslims Vs Christians.

Hata hivyo asichoelewa Mohamed ni ukweli kuwa idadi si kitu kinachokwenda sambamba na ubora.
(Quatity is not necessarily direct proportioanl to Quality).

Inaweza kuwa hivyo endapo
1. Wanafunzi walioandikishwa darasa la 1 walimaliza la 7
2. Wanafunzi hao walipata elimu bora kwa kulinganisha na minority
3. Wanafunzi hao waliingia katika chumba cha mitihani.

Hivyo hoja ya kwamba idadi ya waislam ilikuwa kubwa na hivyo kupaswa kuakisi waliochaguliwa ni mufilisi na haina mashiko. Ni hoja iliyojengwa kwa fikra za mtaani zaidi ya weledi na elimu.

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Huu uwezekano unaouzungumza wewe bila kuwa na takwimu za uhakika ndio hoja muflis kabisa.
1.Uwezekano ni upi wa wanafunzi walioandikishwa darasa la 1 kwa Dar es salaam wasifike darasa la 7.
Ingekuwa ni Kilwa mngesema wanakwenda kuvua samaki.
2.Iakuwaje katika darasa moja kuwe na elimu bora kwa minority lakini majority wapatiwe elimu duni?.
3.Ikiwa wamefika mpaka siku ya mwisho,siku ya mtihani.Nani aliwazuia kuingia chumba cha mtihani.
Tumeshuhudia siku ya mtihani ikitokea ni mwezi mtukufu wa Ramadhani shule huamua kupika pilau ili waislamu ama wale au waache mtihani na bado huwa tunawaambia watoto wetu wafanye mtihani.Sasa wewe unajua sababu gani nyengine ya kuwafanya wanafunzi waislamu wasiingie chumba cha mtihani?.

Ritz said:

Jasusi,

Kabla ya Nyerere ajazaliwa na kuingia kwenye siasa Tanganyika hakujawahi kutokea vita vya kikabila wala vya kidini hii hulka ya Watanganyika.

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Muongo mkubwa, wangoni walipigana na wahehe mara nyingi tu, Wahehe chini ya Mkwawa waliwashambulia wagogo na wakaguru mara nyingi tu! Mirambo na Wanyamwezi walijitanua na kuyasambaratisha makabila mengi tu... Rudi katika historia, achana na majungu ya Mzee Mohamed Saidi kijana!

Mohamed Said said:

Ritz,
Nimerudi ulingoni na darsa la vuguvugu la wafanyakazi.

Nimebandika kisa cha Abdu Sykes na Waingereza 1947/48.
Naona kimyaaaaaaa!

Naendelea kusubiri.

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Tutumie critical theory na literal theory? maana unachotaka ni tujadili maandiko yako literally wakati source ni wazee na hatuna hakika na source.
Its true in history discoveries are made everyday (take acheological discoveries for an example) these help us mostly fill in the gaps in history and shade new light but there are historical methods that are employed every time :

*The following questions are used by historians in modern works.
--When was-the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)?
--Where was it produced (localization)?
--By whom was it produced (authorship)?
--From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)?
--In what original form was it produced (integrity)?
--What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)?


The first four are known as-higher criticism;
the fifth,-lower criticism; and, together all, external criticism.
-The sixth and final inquiry-about a source is called internal criticism.

Malalamiko ya wengi ni kwamba unatumia gaps katika historia kuweka juhuudi za wazee wako ambazo hatuna hakika walikuhadithia au ulizipataje.

Lakini baya zaidi ni jinsi ambavyo inatumika ku vilify hawa na ku complement wale. Kwa style hii utaishia kugawa watu tu hasa wale watakaoamua kuikubali na watakaoiona ni hekaya tu na porojo za wazee with some added twists.

Mohamed Said said:

Ritz,
Nimerudi ulingoni na darsa la vuguvugu la wafanyakazi.

Nimebandika kisa cha Abdu Sykes na Waingereza 1947/48.
Naona kimyaaaaaaa!

Naendelea kusubiri.

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Umerudi kufanya nini wakati ulidai ukiondoka uzi huu ungeshindwa kuendelea? Sasa hapa umeleta kipi kipya zaidi ya makelele yako yaliyozoeleka!

Ami said:

Ile inayoitwa socratic method uliyosema ndio utatumia kujibia ina upungufu mkubwa kwani inauona ulimwengu kama kitu kidogo kilichoanza kuwepo miaka 2013 tu iliyopita.
Mimi nimekupa sura pana ya uumbwaji wa Ulimwengu kuanzia Adam (a.s)kama Mtume mpakaYesu ( a.s) na Muhammad (s.a.w) na kwamba wote ni waislamu.Itawezekanaje mitumue waliotumwa na Mungu mmoja wawe na dini tofauti?.


Maelezo ya ndani ya Qur'an ndiyo ya msingi kuliko nje yake.Hata wewe hupaswi kuweka mbele porojo zako bila kuwa na maandiko.

Ikiwa ni hivyo basi hakupaswi kuwepo na ukristu

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Ami, mkiambiwa mnaakili nzito kuelewa mambo madogo mnadai mnatukanwa! jambo hili mmeambiwa mlipeleke jukwaa la dini!

Ahahahahah..Watu bhana ati mwanadarisalama a.k.a mzee wa gerezani, MO ni mutoto wa mujini, Masalia na mchochezi.Ama kweli kazi na dawa.Twende Kazi.

Gwalihenzi said:

Ami, mkiambiwa mnaakili nzito kuelewa mambo madogo mnadai mnatukanwa! jambo hili mmeambiwa mlipeleke jukwaa la dini!

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Tom Bell, via Nimrod Kamer Sanderson Jones at the first meeting of The Sunday Assembly, an atheist church in London.Na hili tulipeleke wapi kwenye chit chat au jukwaa la mapenzi

kweli ikitamalaki wenye maslahi hugwaya

Ritz said:

Siyo ulikuwepo upo mpaka sasa ndiyo mkoa ambao hawezi kuendelea kwa kuendekeza ukabila unataka kunimbia Nyerere kaweza kuondoa ukabila Mara.

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The short answer is yes. TANU ilisaidia kuondoa ukabila Mara. Nani kakwambia Mara haiwezi kuendelea? Jengeni ile reli kutoka Musoma hadi Tanga muone.

Boko haram said:

Tom Bell, via Nimrod Kamer Sanderson Jones at the first meeting of The Sunday Assembly, an atheist church in London.Na hili tulipeleke wapi kwenye chit chat au jukwaa la mapenzi

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Muulize mzee wako Mohamed Said bingwa wauongo na uchochezi anayeutumia vibaya uislam aliyejificha kwenye key board akiwachanganya akili vijana wajinga kama wewe.

Nguruvi3 said:

Nyumba hiyo ilitolewa na David Cameron. Mtu mzima Mag3 kaweka kila kitu hadhrwan, Mohamed hakukataa isipokuwa alisisitiza nyumba ilikuwa inajengwa Jumapili tu! Hiyo Jumapili ina maana kubwa sana kwamba ni siku ''wengine'' hawakushiriki kutokana na kuwa siku ya ibada kwa imani zao. Kwahiyo ikashadidiwa kuwa
ilijengwa Jumapili!

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mzee MS unasemaje juu ya kisa hiki

Mkuu Remote unadhani Mohamed Said mjinga hapo atakwambia si kila kitu anajibu,ukimbana zaidi atakwambia minishaandika kitabu kina zaidi ya 15 years na nyie andikeni chenu ha ha ha ha ha chezea Mo.

Remote said:

mzee MS unasemaje juu ya kisa hiki

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Remote said:

mzee MS unasemaje juu ya kisa hiki

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Remote,
Kwanza soma haya yafuatayo kama nilivyoandika katika kitabu changu:

''In early 1930's Kleist oversaw under a self-help scheme the building of the Association's headquarters at New Street (now Lumumba Street).

This is the building whichTANU came to be born on 7 th July, 1954.

The building still stands today thoughnot in its original form.

It now forms part of the headquarters of the ruling party, the Chamacha Mapinduzi (CCM).

The old building was built from lime, mud andstones as was usual in those times.

Lime wasused in place of cement.

As a young boy, Abdulwahid grew up seeing his father with other members building the African Association headquarters at NewStreet (currently known as Lumumba Street) with their own hands on Sundays under a self-help scheme.''

Remote,
Taarifa hizi ukizitaka unaweza kuzipata kwenye kitabu cha John Iliffe (Ed), ''Modern Tanzanians'' ambamo ndani yake Aisha Daisy Sykes mtoto wa Abdu Sykes na mjukuu wa Kleist anaeleza habari hizo.

Vilevile unaweza kuzipata katika Maktaba ya Chuo Kikuu Cha Dar es Salaam, East Africana kuna seminar paper ya mwaka 1968 imehhifadhiwa pale ya Idara ya Historia, ''The Life of Kleist Sykes''ambayo kaandika Daisy Sykes.

Seminar paper hii Daisy kaiandika chini ya usimamizi wa mwalimu wake wa historia John Iliffe.

Nyumba hii ilikuwa ikijengwa siku za Jumapili kwa kuwa ndiyo siku ya mapumziko ya kazi na wanachama ndiyo walikuwa na nafasi ya kufanya kazi hiyo.

Sina haja ya kusema mengi kuwa mmoja wa wajenzi hao alikuwa babu yangu.

Ngongo said:

Mkuu Remote unadhani Mohamed Said mjinga hapo atakwambia si kila kitu anajibu,ukimbana zaidi atakwambia minishaandika kitabu kina zaidi ya 15 years na nyie andikeni chenu ha ha ha ha ha chezea Mo.

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Ngongo,

Maalim wangu Sheikh Haruna alikuwa akinambia, ''Mohamed soma uje usomeshe. Usisome
uje kufanya ubishi. Elimu ya ubishi haina baraka.''

Kwa hakika haya maneno ya maalim wangu nayashuhudia katika uzi huu.
Watu wanabishana hadi kutukanana matusi mazito ulimi hauwezi kutamka.

Hakika sijibu kila kitu wala sielezi humu kila kitu.

Geeky said:

Tutumie critical theory na literal theory? maana unachotaka ni tujadili maandiko yako literally wakati source ni wazee na hatuna hakika na source.
Its true in history discoveries are made everyday (take acheological discoveries for an example) these help us mostly fill in the gaps in history and shade new light but there are historical methods that are employed every time :

*The following questions are used by historians in modern works.
--When was-the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)?
--Where was it produced (localization)?
--By whom was it produced (authorship)?
--From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)?
--In what original form was it produced (integrity)?
--What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)?


The first four are known as-higher criticism;
the fifth,-lower criticism; and, together all, external criticism.
-The sixth and final inquiry-about a source is called internal criticism.


Malalamiko ya wengi ni kwamba unatumia gaps katika historia kuweka juhuudi za wazee wako ambazo hatuna hakika walikuhadithia au ulizipataje.

Lakini baya zaidi ni jinsi ambavyo inatumika ku vilify hawa na ku complement wale. Kwa style hii utaishia kugawa watu tu hasa wale watakaoamua kuikubali na watakaoiona ni hekaya tu na porojo za wazee with some added twists.

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Geeky,
Inaelekea umeingia katikati ya mjadala.

Swali hilo nimejibu mara kadhaa.

Hakika nilichoandika ni historia ya wazee wangu walivyopigania uhuru kama
walivyonieleza.

Toka awali nimesema si lazima ukubali niliyosema na kwa hakika una haki ya
kuikataa historia hii hata ukaiita ya uongo, porojo, hekaya nk.

Nasema hivi kwa sababu ikiwa mimi nimeikataa historia ya Chuo Cha Kivukoni
''Historia ya TANU 1954 - 1977'' kwa nini iwe mwao wewe utakapoikataa hii
historia niliyoandika mimi?

La mwisho ni kuwa ikiwa yuko mwenye historia ya ukweli basi na aandike Insha Allah
tutaisoma.

Mohamed Said said:

Remote,
Kwanza soma haya yafuatayo kama nilivyoandika katika kitabu changu:

''In early 1930'sKleist oversaw under a self-help scheme the building of the Association's headquarters at New Street (now Lumumba Street).

This is the building whichTANU came to be born on 7 th July, 1954.

The building still stands today thoughnot in its original form.

It now forms part of the headquarters of the ruling party, the Chamacha Mapinduzi (CCM).

The old building was built from lime, mud andstones as was usual in those times.

Lime wasused in place of cement.

As a young boy, Abdulwahid grew up seeing his father with other members building the African Association headquarters at NewStreet (currently known as Lumumba Street) with their own hands on Sundays under a self-help scheme.''

Remote,
Taarifa hizi ukizitaka unaweza kuzipata kwenye kitabu cha John Illife (Ed), ''Modern Tanzanians'' ambamo ndani yake Aisha Daisy Sykes mtoto wa Abdu Sykes na mjukuu wa Kleist anaeleza habari hizo.

Vilevile unaweza kuzipata katika Maktaba ya Chuo Kikuu Cha Dar es Salaam, East Africana kuna seminar paper ya mwaka 1968 imehhifadhiwa pale ya Idara ya Historia, ''The Life of Kleist Sykes''ambayo kaandika Daisy Sykes.

Seminar paper hii Daisy kaiandika chini ya usimamizi wa mwalimu wake wa historia John Illife.

Nyumba hii ilikuwa ikijengwa siku za Jumapili kwa kuwa ndiyo siku ya mapumziko ya kazi na wanachama ndiyo walikuwa na nafasi ya kufanya kazi hiyo.

Sina haja ya kusema mengi kuwa mmoja wa wajenzi hao alikuwa babu yangu.

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Still beating around the bush! Unachotakiwa ni kukanusha kwanza halafu ueleze unachokijua.
Mag3 alisema nyumba hiyo ilitolewa na David Cameron ambaye wewe umemwandika kama liberal governor.
Nyumba hiyo ikafisadiwa na Klesit Sykes na kulikuwa na mzozo kuhusiana na hilo.

Unatakiwa ujibu swali, halafu kama una maelezo ndiyop yafuate.
So far hujajibu swali, umekata kipande cha kitabu chako na kutuaminisha kuwa Daisy anaweza kuandika kuhusu ufisadi wa K.Sykes Mzulu babu yake.